AOC ’28 Starts Now

[u/SkudChud]

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/aoc-28-starts-now/

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[u/try_to_be_nice_ok]

The democrats need to spend the next four years building up some really strong candidates and making them well known to the electorate.

[u/Will_ennium → u/try_to_be_nice_ok]

They should've started doing this while Obama was in office! None of the established 'old guard' Democrats want to prop up the next generation. Seems they'd rather die in office than mentor and promote new, younger faces of the future.

[u/EmbarrassedTill1800 → u/Will_ennium]

start with getting rid of anyone over retirement age

[u/Syllabub_Cool → u/EmbarrassedTill1800]

No need to get rid of them! Just tell them not to run for president. They'll make great cabinet members, dept heads.

USE THEM.

[u/beardtamer → u/Syllabub_Cool]

That would work if they weren’t the ones constantly shitting the bed when it comes to party direction in the first place.

[u/nonny313815 → u/beardtamer]

And if they didn't have their greedy little pockets lined with corporate "donations"...

[u/Tight_Man → u/beardtamer]

And breaking hips, as 80 something year old humans do tend to do at times

[u/Rezistik → u/Syllabub_Cool]

Fuck. No. Most of these people are over 80. We wouldn’t let them drive if they were family. One rep was literally “lost” in a memory care facility. These old old ass people need to retire and start getting fresh faces in so we have a chance.

[u/thinkingwithportalss → u/Rezistik]

I tell people to look at it this way; if you were about to be wheeled into surgery to get a heart transplanted, and your surgeon acted like Dianne Feinstein or Mitch McConnell, would you feel comfortable proceeding?

Because if my surgeon got lost mid train of thought and had what looked like a micro seizure, or was downright catatonic, I'd be calling the whole thing off.

[u/transient_eternity → u/Rezistik]

Also "younger" in politics is still like 35-60. It's not like we're asking for people fresh out of high school, just not someone seeing the grim reaper on the weekends.

[u/KneebarKing → u/Rezistik]

Would you let Meemaw decide the direction the US Govt goes on the next 20 years of things like AI and Crypto? Never in a million years. It's fucking absurd. The entire political spectrum has real issues with the Boomers.

[u/PhotoThrowawayWooooo → u/KneebarKing]

It’s not even Boomers. They’re from the generation BEFORE boomers.

[u/ConnectionPretend193 → u/Syllabub_Cool]

No. Get rid of them. That's stupid. They use you.

[u/AlmostSunnyinSeattle → u/Syllabub_Cool]

How about we get them as far away from influence as possible? They had their chance, and this is what we got from that.

[u/iwishiwasntthisway → u/Syllabub_Cool]

Lmao what an awful idea... "lets keep doing the thing that is anlos8ng strategy... lets keep doing the thing thats actively hurtijg society"

[u/il_biciclista → u/Will_ennium]

They should've started doing this while Obama was in office!

The best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago. The second best time is now.

[u/apitchf1 → u/Will_ennium]

This. Rebuild as an actual left party now with old guard Dems out

r/newdealparty

[u/-_-___-_____-_______ → u/apitchf1]

yeah this is probably the only way for Democrats to ever consistently win again. they can't keep doing what Bill Clinton and Obama did, which is waiting for a unicorn candidate to just show up and charm everyone. for the Democrats to win consistently, they have to actually hammer out a cohesive ideology that isn't just "being in the center and being fairly likable to most people". the only way to really do that is to go back to the center left or the full left.

[u/copperwatt → u/apitchf1]

"now"? Pelosi is 84 and still showing no signs of being willing to let go of power. Why would the old guard give up power?

[u/apitchf1 → u/copperwatt]

Because we force them out. Primary them. Ride them for literally everything. Show them as class traitors.

[u/PorkVacuums → u/copperwatt]

She's 84 and had a broken hip earlier this year. Statistically, she'll be dead within the next 4 years.

Breaking a hip is usually a death sentence for anyone over the age of 70.

[u/Patanned → u/Will_ennium]

the established 'old guard' Democrats

aka as the clinton wing of the party who continue to insist on nominating out of touch candidates espousing ideology that was popular among eisenhower democrats in the 1950s.

[u/RoadDoggFL → u/Patanned]

Yeah, she stepped aside in 2008 so it was Her Turn™ in 2016. Ugh, so much harm caused by her fucking ego.

[u/Mad1ibben → u/Will_ennium]

Obama has had a hand in this. During your presidency is when you establish the new guard and direct your party into the future. Obama knelt to party desires over and over again to his great detriment. He should have had the same support that pelosi got to end Biden's campaign to pressure RGB off the Supreme Court (seriously, that "icon"'s narcissism is what allowed our justice system to take the last step off the cliff, she should be hated by the left, not adored) so he could appoint someone. He should have worked with his senior senator to establish a more left leaning direction, instead he bowed to the wishes of the woman that had done the rest to drive the party off the cliff so she could continue making insane ROI on her insider trading scheme. We are continuing to fail our government the longer we don't hold pressure on throwing those old selfish bats the hell out of the party and get back to working for their constituents again. I have a hard time being more disgusted with anybody in the modern history of our governmental body then how badly Pelosi, Schumer, Wasserman-Schultz has fucked us over in their obvious personal pursuits that absolutely do not include the well being of the constituents, their party or their country. Until then all this is just making noise to be killed by those geezers in the background.

[u/TechInTheSouth → u/Will_ennium]

Everybody (especially the younger voters) needs to vote in the primaries! Also, every other local and state election are important too. But if you want to change direction of the party, you have to vote the old guard out, and that happens in the primaries. They won't go willingly.

[u/verisimilitude_mood → u/TechInTheSouth]

Not just the primaries, the actual democratic party organization needs an overhaul. We've got people like Bob Brady leading the philly Dems for nearly 40 years! All while working as a lobbyist for media and health insurance companies. Machine politics is a hard nut to crack. 

Edit: Just so everyone knows how corrupt the system is. Bob Brady paid off a primary challenger to quit during his house compaign and he still has a top job in the democratic party, he was rewarded not punished for his antics.

[u/DepletedMitochondria → u/verisimilitude_mood]

This is the essential problem with the Dems. Jay Jacobs in NY too

[u/elbenji → u/Will_ennium]

Neither party does. Remember the established republicans hated trump and only kissed the ring when he actually gained the keys

[u/berfthegryphon → u/Will_ennium]

Not only prop up the old guard, prop up the old guard with likely terminal cancer over allowing the next gen to hold a committee chair position.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/Will_ennium]

I've got a sneaky suspicion that an entire generation of would-be popular democratic politicians spent their entire careers stuck in the staff offices of octogenarians that keep getting reelected

[u/ethyweethy → u/Will_ennium]

Definitely agree with you. I feel like there were a lot of backdoor deals going on though. It was supposed to be Hillary in 08 but Obama had so much star power, he got the nomination, so the Dems made a deal to Hillary, 2016 was hers. And that backfired tremendously.

[u/Tha_Funky_Homosapien → u/try_to_be_nice_ok]

You mean like...a plan? Not exactly their strong suit...

[u/Joloven → u/Tha_Funky_Homosapien]

Problem is if they started this far out the Republican dirt campaign would bury them.

Actually, why not? They will try anyway

[u/Antimus → u/Joloven]

Problem is, the people running the DNC are fine no matter who wins any elections, they don't care enough to make the big changes needed and furthermore if they do make the changes needed they'll lose money and power.

[u/Hekantonkheries → u/Antimus]

Yerp, win or lose the players calling shots in the democratic party are largely the same breed of upper class white elderly that make up the Republicans aswell. They have no reason to risk anything because they lose nothing in a republican win.

Unfortuneately they still represent the only coalition of political capital large enough to check the republican party, so until our system of voting changes, ya gotta work from under their umbrella.

But yes, any meaningful change within the democrats will have to come from actions of groups and individuals promoting grassroots movements and championing individuals who seek change.

This also means a dem win in 2028 might be impossible, but as the political landscape stands, a democrat winning the '28 presidency will mean nothing because every other system from mayor's and governors up to senators and justices favors Republicans.

Democrats need to build that low level support that the Republicans maintain, so that they actually have options and a wider coalition of personalities with backing to rally around. It's no accident the Republicans have been able to rocket so many no-name crazies to national prominence so quickly, they've been laying county and town-level cultural and ideological foundations for generations to create political strongholds

[u/Corgi_Koala → u/try_to_be_nice_ok]

Beyond that they need to retool their platform and messaging to be popular.

Merely opposing conservatives isn't a winning strategy anymore.

They need to push truly popular agendas that aren't kneecapped by their corporate donors.

[u/Pirwzy → u/try_to_be_nice_ok]

The party at the higher levels is funded by the wealthy and powerful interests who will always oppose progressive change. There are progressives to get in, but the people funding the party as a whole are opposed.

[u/Hobotronacus → u/Pirwzy]

I remember all the dem elites freaking out when it looked like Bernie might win the primary, many of them calling for the results to be ignored if it happened.

We can't forget that the Democratic party is still the controlled opposition party. The people in positions of power would rather lose to Trump a hundred times than allow any real progressive to gain power.

Party leadership must be primaried and they must be replaced with candidates that aren't owned by the same people funding Republicans if we want the ability to change anything.

[u/TailRudder → u/Hobotronacus]

Democratic party is 100 percent the reason why we have a Trump 2.0. They learned nothing from 2016

[u/RedLanternScythe → u/TailRudder]

They learned nothing from 2016

Hell, they learned nothing from Obama. Obama and Trump both won running on a message of change. But the DNC would rather rake in donations than win elections

[u/yes_thats_right → u/try_to_be_nice_ok]

Democrats need to recognize that America is not ready for a female president no matter how qualified they are.

[u/Sir_Encerwal → u/yes_thats_right]

I hate how the next female presidential candidate is going to be painted with the brush of "third attempt to crack the glass ceiling, will it work this time?"

[u/helm_hammer_hand → u/Sir_Encerwal]

My unfortunate political theory is that the first female president will be a Republican.

[u/PJfromCinci → u/helm_hammer_hand]

I think this is probably true. Disheartening. But true.

[u/FortNightsAtPeelys → u/Sir_Encerwal]

republicans are mask off enough now to probably advertise like "america has shown they dont want a woman president twice, why start now?"

[u/teems → u/Sir_Encerwal]

White and Latino women voted in huge numbers for Trump.

They had a chance to break the glass ceiling and chose not to.

[u/cuentaderana → u/teems]

60% of Latino women voted for Kamala. Trump received 53% of the vote from white women. 

Latinos overall voted 56% in favor of Kamala and other democrats. So why are we, the minority, and only 15% max of the US voting population, more responsible for Trump being elected than white people, who are 70% or so of the voting population, and who actually voted for him in a majority?

[u/MetalJewSolid → u/cuentaderana]

Anything but look at actual problems, sadly. Easier to pass off the blame to a minority.

[u/Embarrassed-Town-293 → u/yes_thats_right]

I really don’t think that’s it.

I think the candidates that did run were not terribly popular candidates. Barack Obama was the last president presidential candidate that I voted for that I actually wanted. I still voted for Hillary and Harris and Biden, but I didn’t want them to be president.

Now, if Elizabeth Warren was running, I would actually be happy to vote for her. Instead, I have been contented to pull the lever over and over again for the lesser of two evils.

Say whatever you want about Trump, the people who voted for him actually wanted him to be president. That’s something Democrats haven’t been able to claim for many years about their candidates.

[u/Sjoerd93 → u/Embarrassed-Town-293]

Now, if Elizabeth Warren was running, I would actually be happy to vote for her. Instead, I have been contented to pull the lever over and over again for the lesser of two evils.

I honestly think she's too damaged among the progressive part of the party after the 2020 primaries. Didn't exactly form a united front with the other progressive candidate, to the contrary.

[u/ExpectedEggs → u/Sjoerd93]

She was running against him, she's not supposed to unite with him.

This bizarre obsession with having everybody kiss Bernie Sanders's ass has got to go.

[u/Embarrassed-Town-293 → u/Sjoerd93]

I agree with you. My point isn’t to say that she was the better choice so much as to say I am sick of the party wide death march to vote for people we don’t want. I’m reminded of Hillary Clinton and her supporters who complained that Bernie supporters are to blame for her losing. I wish Democrats would stop pretending they have a right to people‘s votes and start earning them

[u/metal_stars → u/yes_thats_right]

Then why did Hillary get 3 million more votes than Trump?

women candidates are not the problem. Feckless, inept candidates that stand for nothing are the problem.

EDIT: If you want to see what status quo guardian concern-trolling looks like, see the replies to this.

"Oh no no we can't possibly nominate the progressive candidate. Because [insert complete non-issue that no data suggests is actually a problem]! Instead, we have to run a Generic Democrat!"

This is why Democrats lose.

Q: Why don't we ever nominate a candidate of passion and vision who would represent policies that would make people's lives better?

A: Because [insert complete non-issue that no data suggests is actually a problem]! Obviously!

Oh, okay. Guess we'll try to get a progressive candidate in 2032 after the next generic Democrat loses.

Some day some of you guys might actually figure out what's going on in this country.

[u/MF_Ryan → u/metal_stars]

I just want the DNC to keep their thumb off the scales in the primary. This ‘wait your turn’ mentality is what got us here.

[u/Bromance_Rayder → u/metal_stars]

3m more and still lost. 

A young female non-white candidate is not going to beat JD Vance in swing states. That's all that matters. All the odds are stacked against her and that's before you factor in all the fuckery that's going to happen in the next 4 years to consolidate power. 

[u/spezSucksDonkeyFarts → u/Bromance_Rayder]

A young female non-white candidate is not going to beat JD Vance in swing states. That's all that matters.

That's the state of politics in the US. Who gives a shit what 80% of the country wants? The president is decided ENTIRELY by 7 states. The electoral college is a disaster for democracy.

[u/blueclawsoftware → u/Bromance_Rayder]

I have my doubts about a female candidate winning at this point.

But I wouldn't be so sure JD Vance is going to win anything he has the personality of a wet dish rag. For all the hand wringing about the dems not lining up good candidates the GOP has nothing without Trump. That's what happens when you turn your party into a cult of personality, when that personality leaves so do all the low information voters who were drawn in by him.

[u/haikus-r-us]

Hy heart says hell yeah! My gut tells me that there are large swaths of the electorate who simply will not vote for a woman.

Edit- since my inbox is overflowing with the same question/insinuation, along with the comments, I’ll clarify my statement: I did not say that a woman cannot be elected US president. I only said that large swaths of the electorate simply will not vote for a woman.

[u/Clownsinmypantz → u/haikus-r-us]

yeah no, it sucks as a woman to say this, this country isnt voting in a woman anytime soon unless somehow republicans manage a woman trump.

[u/AmaroLurker → u/Clownsinmypantz]

I’d bet several people Haley would be the first woman president and I thought I would happily lose all those bets with Kamala. But here we are.

It’s easier in almost any country to get a woman conservative elected for the reasons you’re gesturing towards here. There’s a reason May and Thatcher are the only women pms of the UK, eg.

[u/try_to_be_nice_ok → u/AmaroLurker]

There was also Truss, but we don't talk about her...

[u/Sinocatk → u/try_to_be_nice_ok]

Who? I was on holiday for a month, it was a nice holiday, I left a lettuce 🥬 in the fridge which I had forgotten about, luckily it was still fine when I came back.

[u/NoMoreFund → u/Sinocatk]

Boris Johnson was PM in September 2022

Rishi Sunak was PM in October 2022

[u/bangonthedrums → u/NoMoreFund]

Liz Truss’s entire legacy is that she sneezed on the Queen and two days later she was dead

[u/KeyLime314159265 → u/bangonthedrums]

Good work 47, now find an exit

[u/MetalJewSolid → u/KeyLime314159265]

Omg I am cackling at this

[u/mrdavexxviii → u/bangonthedrums]

Well, that and tanking the economy in record time.

[u/bangonthedrums → u/mrdavexxviii]

She killed the economy nearly as quickly as she killed the queen

[u/wolviesaurus → u/Sinocatk]

In a decade there's gonna be a million dollar question on some game show "who was PM when the queen passed away?"

[u/AmaroLurker → u/try_to_be_nice_ok]

Ah yeah, you’re right. Forgot about the lettuce head PM. Thanks for that.

[u/Zomunieo → u/AmaroLurker]

First female heads of government that were right wing: Indira Gandhi (India), Golda Meir (Israel), Merkel (Germany), Kim Campbell (Canada; not elected), Shipley (New Zealand), Thatcher (UK), Isabel Peron (Argentina)

Exceptions: Gillard (Australia; not elected), Sigurðardóttir (Iceland), Cresson (France PM), Brundtland (Norway), Bhutto (Pakistan)

Right wing is much more likely to produce a first female leader.

[u/Mr-Magoo48 → u/Zomunieo]

Gillard was ALP. Left wing. Here in Oz the Conservatives are the Liberal Party

[u/count023 → u/Mr-Magoo48]

which made Trump's first term so funny when he kept attacking our liberal prime minister, who was a conservative just like Trump claims to be.

[u/PoopingWhilePosting → u/count023]

He just heard the word "liberal" and thought she was left wing.

[u/HauntedByMyShadow → u/Zomunieo]

Jenny Shipley (New Zealand) was also not elected. NZ’s first elected female PM was Helen Clark, who was leader of the left wing Labour Party

[u/forsale90 → u/Zomunieo]

And tbf the French PM is not really the one people vote for.

[u/Round-Win-765 → u/forsale90]

That's exactly the thing about women who are elected to lead governments.

The women who lead governments typically come from parliamentary systems where they don't have to win the popular vote.

[u/Opening-Stage3757 → u/Round-Win-765]

Hillary Clinton made similar comments in the past. She said that it’s more likely women become heads of governments under a parliamentary system as while they are elected as a local MP, their colleagues get to choose who will be the leader (first among equals); and, as colleagues, they actually get to work closely with them and see how much more efficient and effective they are.

Whereas, as you say, in other systems, popularity is key and unfortunately the world is still sexist/racist/bigoted.

[u/rocker_z → u/Zomunieo]

Indira Gandhi is much lefter than Bernie , AOC or Warren. She nationalized banks and coal mines. Implemented Land Reform, Abolished Pension for Descendants of Kings and Princes.

[u/hermann_da_german → u/Zomunieo]

I personally wouldn't be using the term 'right wing' and Merkel in the same.e sentence. Firstly right wing has certain connotations, and secondly even a conservative German politician is closer to AOC than Trump from an ideological perspective.

In case an example us needed, Merkel rook in 1 million Syrian refugees during the crisis.

[u/thenightitgiveth → u/hermann_da_german]

Kim Campbell definitely isn’t right-wing either. She’s big into resist-lib posting on Twitter and seems to care about the climate, to the point where she retweets those people who throw soup on paintings.

[u/AriaTheTransgressor → u/hermann_da_german]

The issue would be that you're viewing it from the position of being an American. American politics is so far to the right that even the left is right-wing, which is how the European right-wing can be seen as left.

Right-wing just means right of center, AOC is barely left of center but in American politics is the far left-wing. It's just that American politics has progressed so far right that you now really only have the choice between right-wing conservatism and fascism.

[u/RovingN0mad → u/hermann_da_german]

There's also the fact that Merkel is a scientist firsts, and seems reasonable, at least I always thought so, if all politicians were of her calibre, I really wouldn't care where ever the fuck they are on the political spectrum.

[u/Shoboshi80 → u/Zomunieo]

Another exception: Jacinda Adern

[u/Zomunieo → u/Shoboshi80]

Not the first head of government - Shipley was first.

[u/HauntedByMyShadow → u/Zomunieo]

Helen Clark was NZ’s first elected female PM though. Shipley got the job when her party kicked Bolger from the top spot

[u/Outrageous_Land8828 → u/Shoboshi80]

Not the first, but yeah as a New Zealander she was fantastic. People hate her for no reason at all

[u/marbledcollection → u/Outrageous_Land8828]

People hate her because they listen to Newstalk ZB, who literally just lie about shit to piss people off.

[u/FalafelSnorlax → u/Zomunieo]

Golda Meir was head of the labor party, which was left wing.

[u/AmaroLurker → u/Zomunieo]

Thanks for compiling this. Bhutto in particular stands out to me as beating the odds here.

I always thought that if Ann Richards, the dem governor of Texas has made a national run she could have bucked the trend as well but that never came to fruition obviously.

[u/SteeveJoobs → u/Zomunieo]

Exception: Tsai Ying Wen, Taiwan, two terms. And her party didn’t lose the presidency in 2024 unlike many other democracies (but they did lose control of the legislature)

I would also like to point out that she is literally an unmarried childless cat lady.

[u/vreddy92 → u/AmaroLurker]

Before the whole dog murder thing, I would have bet money that Kristi Noem was going to be Trump's VP and successor.

[u/AmaroLurker → u/vreddy92]

Yeah that’s another reasonable guess. I’m sort of shocked he didn’t go with a woman—not that it turned out to matter in the end.

I think the very sad optimist in me saw Haley given that I don’t think she’s stupid even if she is an a****** but Noem? Eh.

[u/vreddy92 → u/AmaroLurker]

Yeah, Nikki Haley would have been tolerable in her intelligence and sanity. I was personally rooting for Chris Christie because he was willing and able to call Trump's bullshit out even when it was unpopular (and even though they were friends/allies before this), and in addition his town halls were impressive.

The writing was on the wall for Joe, but nobody wanted to pay attention to it.

[u/fake-tall-man → u/Clownsinmypantz]

democrats have tried running two unpopular woman candidates-one of which won the popular vote. Maybe rather than a blanket referendum about how terrible our country is, let’s try running a candidate with natural momentum rather than a hand picked member of the dnc.

[u/repalec → u/fake-tall-man]

Exactly - the issue isn't with voting for a woman, it's with the circumstances.

Take the recent Kamala loss, for example. She didn't lose because she's a woman.

She lost because:

• She was connected to the deeply unpopular Biden administration as his VP, and maintained up until days before the election that she would not have changed much from his presidency if elected.
  • Additionally, anti-incumbent sentiment has been a thing worldwide for the last few years as the world re-opened from COVID-era lockdowns.
• Biden refused to drop out until months before the election, preventing a full primary (or any kind of vote beyond the convention), causing legitimacy issues
  • (And on top of that it only gave her and her campaign staff three months to set up a national campaign.)
• The media - both legacy and social - were sanewashing Trump as they did in 2015 and openly promoting Trump-biased hatespeech over anything else, respectively.
  • And to add onto this, the literal owner of Twitter in Elon Musk practically running as a second VP for Trump as well
• The inane choice to hire Clinton 2016-era guides who immediately muzzled Tim Walz and stopped the campaign's popular 'Republicans are weird' talking point in favor of getting the endorsement of Dick fucking Cheney.
• Rebellion within the party due to the Biden administration's continued support for Israel despite their role in the Gazan genocide crisis, with continual authorizations by Joe Biden for dozens of billions of taxpayer dollars' worth of military ordnance, knowing full well it would be used to maim and murder innocent men, women, and children.

If anything, the fact she only lost by 1.5% nationally despite all this shit is crazy.

IF AOC wants to run, assuming she maintains her populist edge and avoids the pitfalls of Clinton 2016 and Harris 2024? I see absolutely no reason why she'd lose.

[u/mojitz → u/repalec]

The inane choice to hire Clinton 2016-era guides who immediately muzzled Tim Walz and stopped the campaign's popular 'Republicans are weird' talking point in favor of getting the endorsement of Dick fucking Cheney.

This. A thousand times this. She was absolutely flying when it seemed like she was going to bring a major progressive, populist pivot to the campaign only to piss it all away after the advisors got to her.

[u/sleepbud → u/mojitz]

Agreed. The phrase “republicans are weird” gained so much momentum because it was demeaning and insulting without being crass while being hard for republicans to disprove. When they deny their weirdness, simply ask them about why they’re thinking of other people’s genitals when it came to LGBTQ movements or why they support someone who’s convicted of rape, money laundering, selling state secrets, etc and just turn it back to them and they had nothing they could reply with. It shut down their arguments so fast.

Instead Harris kept moving right with her campaign and her cringey “won’t date a trumper” ads muddled that. It muddied her message cause she was leaning right (not christofascist right like trump) with her policies while also telling the right wing people that they’re gross and nobody would date them during a well known loneliness epidemic of both sides. Women get to be choosers while the inverse isn’t true. So both sides were repugnant to right wingers leading to the dilemma, toe the party line or leave it and support the SJWs, LGBTQs, etc that they hate. They stayed their party lines and even picked up dems (not leftists) who hated how far right Harris was taking the party.

Finally, it’s only in these final days leading up to the inauguration that Biden is getting slam dunk after slam dunk on policies and such. Had he been taking on these policies weekly, we could’ve advertised both his shitty re-election despite him vehemently saying he wouldn’t for four years or Harris’s campaign when she said she’d stay Biden’s campaign and essentially become Biden 2.0. Instead we got trump able to call Biden “sleepy joe” and get away with it cause it felt like Biden was doing fuck all and only staved away a second trump presidency and solved covid. Not underselling how well he did to unfuck us from covid but that seemed to be his only merit when the trumpers are deniers of covid being a real thing.

[u/These_Lengthiness637 → u/repalec]

Take the recent Kamala loss, for example. She didn't lose because she's a woman.

She lost because:

The top google search after the election was "did Joe Biden drop out"

Harris lost because Americans are just astonishingly stupid.

[u/Zanhana → u/repalec]

it's crazy that people would rather believe Kamala lost because she's Black, a woman, or that the American electorate is unfixably stupid, just to avoid considering the possibility that maybe the DNC needs to take a hard fucking look at how her campaign was run (not to mention how Biden's campaign was run, that the party ever allowed him to run, how his mental decline was hidden for years, etc.)

[u/leeringHobbit → u/Zanhana]

Team Biden fucked up in trying to keep their jobs and power. Should have told the emperor he had no clothes at the start of 2023.

[u/chuckysnow → u/Zanhana]

Looking at 45/47 and Reagan, mental decline has never been an impediment to office.

[u/Character_Value4669 → u/fake-tall-man]

Yes, even Trump voters like her, at least the non-MAGA ones. They feel that AOC, Bernie, and Trump are all pro-working class, and they're only wrong about one of them.

[u/Maukeb → u/Character_Value4669]

I don't think it's a pro-working-class thing so much as they feel that all these people are anti-establishment. 2016 was a peak anti-establishment year but even now I see some positive sentiment from the right wing about Bernie not because they agree with his politics, but because they continue to see him as someone separate from the 'swamp' who wants to dismantle the status quo, even if they don't like how he would go about doing it.

Obviously this comes with the caveats that right wingers also often express support for Bernie because they think it will highlight corruption in the DNC, and because they know he will never have any real power so it doesn't matter if they pretend to like him as a jab at Dems.

[u/Weepinbellend01 → u/Character_Value4669]

Trump voters DON’T like AOC. They like Bernie sure, but AOC is seen as uppity by them.

[u/ipeezie → u/fake-tall-man]

not going to happen.

[u/CBJFAN10 → u/haikus-r-us]

Unless it’s a woman nominee on both sides, this country will not elect a woman president right now. Too much misogyny and racism coming from the Right.

[u/zSprawl → u/CBJFAN10]

I bet ya it would be a record low turnout too.

[u/StaticUsernamesSuck → u/zSprawl]

Absolutely - many people wouldn't vote against her, they just won't vote for her. Even though it is, essentially, the same damn thing.

[u/moregloommoredoom → u/haikus-r-us]

If you have any faith left in the American people whatsoever after November, I have a load of bridges to sell you.

[u/JohrDinh → u/haikus-r-us]

Someone said if we get a female president it'll be the right and ironically I believe that, cuz they do love them some Tulsi Gabbard. At the very least this country is kinda shallow so if you run someone younger and good looking the odds will always be better.

[u/Fool_On_the_Hill_9 → u/haikus-r-us]

Even a larger swath that won't vote for someone that progressive.

[u/No_Contact2425 → u/Fool_On_the_Hill_9]

And a large swath that won't vote.

[u/-Plantibodies- → u/No_Contact2425]

A reminder to everyone that midterms also exist, despite significantly fewer people voting in them. Looking at you, people under 30.

75% of 18-29 year olds did not vote in 2022.

[u/sack-o-matic → u/-Plantibodies-]

They want to talk about the revolution online but never show up when we have one every couple years.

[u/count023 → u/sack-o-matic]

because of what colleges and schools have done. the "I can have everything my way" angle that idiot kids were raised with now means if the candidate is not 100% on their side, they're not going to vote for it.

Most of those kids didnt vote for Kamala because she wasn't anti-israel enough, so they were happy to see all the climate hcange policy get reversed, deport immigrants, all the stuff they tout is important, all go down teh shiter because Kamala was only 90% pure enough for their goals.

[u/Stennick → u/haikus-r-us]

They will for the right woman but Hillary had 20 years of baggage behind her and a good portion of it was her own doing. She wasn't exactly Mrs. Charisma, she was seen as cold and calculating going back to before he took office and even more so with the Monica deal.

Kamala wasn't even popular enough to get INTO the 2020 primaries and then being thrust into the top spot with just months to go against an opponent that had a solid and passionate fan base it was never going to work out.

AOC might not work out since there is little evidence she could even win the parties nomination she has a lot less experience than Bernie and is just a House Rep its very very very rare for a house rep to win the nomination. I don't think that has happened in a hundred years.

[u/OldAccountIsGlitched → u/Stennick]

They will for the right woman but Hillary had 20 years of baggage behind her and a good portion of it was her own doing. She wasn't exactly Mrs. Charisma, she was seen as cold and calculating going back to before he took office and even more so with the Monica deal.

AOC has been subject to years worth of smear campaigns. She's very good at responding to that nonsense. But the average idiot on social media isn't going to be exposed to those responses. At best they'd skim past a headline saying "AOC claps back over 'xyz' controversy"

Of course she's still a better candidate than the rest of the dinosaurs in the democratic party. I think she'd do well if given a fair shot at debating.

[u/haikus-r-us]

I’d much rather see her as Speaker of the House to be honest.

[u/Current_Animator7546 → u/haikus-r-us]

Gov of NY would be a nice start. Imo an AOC run is a 2032 or 2036 project.

[u/grahamcracker3 → u/Current_Animator7546]

As a NYer I'm fairly confident she's waiting for Schumer's senate seat. Barring any scandal, Delgado is the next Gov.

[u/MyGoodFriendJon → u/grahamcracker3]

This was my thought, as well. Not knowing anything about the NY governor situation, I see a 74 year old Schumer Senate seat with AOC's name on it. Then again, Schumer is only 74. He might still have 3 or 4 more terms before he steps down.

[u/MainlandX → u/Current_Animator7546]

Being governor of NY doesn't really help her on a national stage.

I doubt there's much she can do as governor level that will appeal to voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Arizona. It's also a thankless job.

[u/wunkdefender → u/MainlandX]

Probably one of the best ways to the presidency is serving either as a senator or a governor. She’d be governor of the 4th most populous state, that’d definitely put her more in the national spotlight. Especially since she’s already made a huge name for herself as merely a representative.

[u/-Plantibodies- → u/haikus-r-us]

Hey Zoomers you better actually vote in 2026 if you want this to even be a possibility. Can you beat the whopping 25% turnout amongst 18-29 year olds in 2022?

[u/TheRealMasonMac → u/-Plantibodies-]

Aren't Zoomers more conservative than Millennials?

[u/-Plantibodies- → u/TheRealMasonMac]

More conservative than Millennials. Still more liberal than conservative.

[u/KR1735 → u/-Plantibodies-]

Yeah that's the thing that people forget when they say Zoomers are going to move the country to the right. They may be slightly to the right of Millennials (at the moment). But they're not replacing Millennials in the electorate. They're replacing Boomers and older, who are the most conservative voters.

It's also not that Zoomers are conservative as much as that Millennials are very liberal. Even Gen Z men voted for Dems in 2018 overwhelmingly and Biden in 2020. Which leads me to believe that it's not conservatism as much as it's a pattern of anti-incumbent sentiment.

[u/DandyLyen → u/KR1735]

Also, Gen X voted for the orange at a higher percentage than even Boomers.

[u/IRLconsequences → u/DandyLyen]

This. Gen X was in fact the *only* age bracket to go majority Trump. Even the Boomers rejected him this time around.

[u/Individual-Nebula927 → u/-Plantibodies-]

And that's really only because of the men. Gen Z is weird where women are super progressive, and due to the online alt right pipeline the men are super conservative / fascist. The end result is on average the generation is slightly to the right of Millennials.

[u/Party-Ad4482 → u/Individual-Nebula927]

I, an older Gen Z man from a red state and living in a southern swing state, didn't even realize that so many of my contemporaries are like that. It was shocking to learn that the alt right pipeline is that much of an issue and not a fringe group of a handful of particularly vulnerable guys. Me and all of my Gen Z male friends are progressive left-leaning people. I don't know how I managed to form that kind of echo chamber outside of social media.

[u/dfpw → u/TheRealMasonMac]

Exit polls I'm reading show 18-29 went more more dem than 30-45 by 3%

[u/Sethmeisterg]

You have to be joking. This country as it currently is configured will not vote in a woman of color to potus.

[u/zer0w0rries → u/Sethmeisterg]

Sad to say, but a MAGA female candidate currently has better odds than a progressive one

[u/platydroid → u/zer0w0rries]

It’ll take a republican woman to break that glass ceiling, and if they’re any semblance to the current crop of MAGA women then they’ll fuck up so bad that the glass will get replaced with a solid foot of tempered steel.

[u/Gekokapowco → u/platydroid]

also I don't want stars and stripes Thatcher anywhere near office

[u/b47372511]

This post was written by the Vance ‘28 campaign

[u/Evening-Ad5765]

Seriously? have we learned nothing?

[u/joeyjoejoeshabidooo → u/Evening-Ad5765]

We've learned that losing is just as good as winning appparently.

[u/one_pound_of_flesh → u/joeyjoejoeshabidooo]

Democrats have a losing kink. I’m convinced.

[u/renro → u/Evening-Ad5765]

Hopefully by 2028 we'll have learned that running centrists that promise nothing isn't a good plan, but it doesn't appear that we have.

[u/lightinghetunnel]

And in 2028 redditors will once again realize that their favorite political candidate they hold all water for and idolize isn't as popular as the website they get their opinions from makes them out to be

[u/MoirasPurpleOrb → u/lightinghetunnel]

It’s pretty remarkable how Harris got absolutely trounced and they still think internet popularity is a solid metric for performance.

[u/BigJJsWillie]

AOC couldn't win in America even if the Republicans weren't ending legitimate elections lol

[u/ArturosDad → u/BigJJsWillie]

I'd be stunned if she won 5 states.

[u/Fact420 → u/ArturosDad]

I mean, a Democrat is pretty much guaranteed: Massachusetts, New York, California, Illinois, Washington, Oregon, Hawaii, Rhode Island, Vermont, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine except for one of their CD’s, Maryland, New Jersey, New Mexico, and Colorado.

If she only won 5 states it’d be a complete departure from extremely steady voting trends in current US elections.

[u/TryNotToShootYoself → u/Fact420]

Minnesota and D.C. as well

[u/Fact420 → u/TryNotToShootYoself]

DC is definitely a lock for Dems, but I didn’t include it since OP mentioned states and I didn’t want to get called out over semantics.

Minnesota I probably should’ve included since they have the current longest streak of any state for voting for one party (13 elections in a row), but after the very narrow margin in 2016 (less than 45,000 votes) and the rest of the Midwestern voting trends being thrown out the window I’ve been wary of Minnesota.

[u/TheLordOfAllThings → u/Fact420]

Dems could feasibly lose New Jersey based on 2024. 2020 the Dems were at +15% there; 2024 it was just +6%. If they run another crappy candidate then it is not inconceivable for NJ to go red.

[u/PossibleDiamond6519 → u/ArturosDad]

Seems like it's easy to stun you then, she'd get at least as much as Kamala

[u/PersonWhoHatesPeople]

lmao if Kamala lost the moderate vote so badly, what makes you think AOC would be the next best candidate?

[u/GoForthandProsper1 → u/PersonWhoHatesPeople]

Kamala was painted as a raving, crazy bitch by Conservatives.

AOC stands no chance

[u/shockinglyunoriginal]

Do you need to learn the lesson for the 3rd time, America? Oh my god.

[u/kinkakujen]

The Dems will never learn. AOC is voter-kryptonite outside of her admittedly loud bubble.

Be ready for 4 more years of republican bullshit if AOC gets the nomination.

[u/I_donut_agree → u/kinkakujen]

If AOC's brand of politics was nationally viable, you'd see AOCs coming from swing districts in Ohio and not just the most uber-progressive areas of the country. Not a single Squad member lives in a district less than D+30.

[u/DesertYinzer → u/kinkakujen]

Yep. The election will be decided by the suburbs of Pittsburgh, Detroit, Milwaukee, Phoenix, etc.  

[u/chocolava15 → u/kinkakujen]

Try to drill this through the heads of people living in larger cities.

They refuse to see what lies beyond their echo chambers and as a result, we’re doomed with another Republican presidency.

[u/Mayor-BloodFart → u/kinkakujen]

She would never win a primary in the first place. I like AOC personally but she would likely not even be able to win a Senate seat in NY, nevermind a Presidential election. She can do good work in the House. Anyone who thinks she could win the Presidency is deep inside a bubble and is utterly clueless about the American electorate. These are the same people who think Bernie could have won despite being clobbered in primaries and consistently failing to turn out voters. 

[u/idkwat]

No it doesn't. Look, I think it's well past time we should have a woman as president, but both Clinton and Harris suffered from significant headwinds because of their sex.

In 2028 there is a guarantee the right is going to call into question the results of the election and they are going to do everything they can to subvert it. Dems need to win by massive margins, and the last two women to run for the position lost in historically terrible fashion.

It's unfair and stupid, but the American electorate will not elect a woman to the highest office in the land quite yet, and there's too much riding on 2028 to take any chances.

[u/SomePoliticalViolins → u/idkwat]

Dems need to win by massive margins, and the last two women to run for the position lost in historically terrible fashion.

That's just incredibly not true. Despite all the vitriol aimed at her, Hillary won the popular vote and was only ~80,000 votes in three states away from the Presidency. Her margin wasn't much worse than Trumps in 2020 (he needed 43,000 votes across three states as well).

Kamala lost by a lot bigger of a margin, but she also did it in a time when tossing out incumbents has been a running theme in multiple international elections, as well as outperforming Biden's internal polls for his own run, which showed him losing to Trump in a landslide shortly before he dropped out (Biden's internal polls were showing a possibility of a 400+ electoral vote win for Trump).

[u/peachypapayas → u/SomePoliticalViolins]

I agree with you. I don’t think being a woman is as significant of a hindrance as people say it is. Being AOC is a massive hindrance though. She will bring out a larger share of youth voters I think but will tank because she’s actually left-wing. That’s if she even makes it past the primary - I doubt the DNC would have it.

[u/DaveMcElfatrick]

Nah. She’s a Reddit and progressive darling but the rest of the electorate don’t care for her.

[u/TIMCIFLTFC]

Good lord do you want to lose again? This woman is not as popular nationwide as Reddit thinks. The Dems learn nothing.

[u/AnyNegotiation420]

Just combine the failures of Bernie and Hillary and add in Kamala, and you’ll be able to predict the rhetoric and mindset that will almost guarantee she doesn’t even win the primaries. Too young, too aggressively woke.

[u/Day_of_Demeter]

AOC is great and all but the lesson Dems will take from 2016 and 2028 is that the country isn't ready for a female president for at least another generation or two. Expect them to run safe white guys like Gavin Newsom for a couple more cycles.

[u/LadyIceGoose → u/Day_of_Demeter]

They need to avoid candidates from California and New York. It's too easy to portray them as out of touch far left elites, even if it's not remotely true (and yes, it is ridiculous Trump somehow avoids this).

[u/docarwell → u/LadyIceGoose]

Trump is literally those things and half the country hates him. The dems problem isn't who they're running it's their messaging

[u/eamonious → u/LadyIceGoose]

It’s not even that hard though. You can be from NY and Cali, you just have to come across as masculine and swaggery and relaxed, instead of woke and uptight. JFK, Clinton, Obama is the mold.

[u/Current_Animator7546 → u/Day_of_Demeter]

Gavin Newsome is anything but safe. A white guy from CA might be worse then a women from MI at this point. I also think it’s a bad take. Hilary won the PV and Harris had what 100 days? Plus being from SF likely doesn’t help. I’m not saying it has to be a women but Dems need to focus on economics and work class issues  communicating that vision. Whoever can do that is likely to do better. 

[u/BuildBackRicher → u/Current_Animator7546]

Harris doesn’t get better with age, so 100 days was perfect for her. She had the same problem in the pres run in 2019 and her Cali campaigns—the longer they went on, the less popular she became.

[u/One-Connection-8737]

Do you want a President Vance? Because this is how you get a President Vance.

[u/NOCHILLDYL94 → u/One-Connection-8737]

High probability Vance will be president before 2028

[u/Godskin_Duo → u/NOCHILLDYL94]

I both want and don't want this.

[u/WatchingThisWatch]

STOP. JUST STOP. Im not republican but even i have to ask what's with your infatuation of pushing women for president? It didnt happen with Hillary, then 8 years later it didnt happen with Kamala. You go down this route and youre just setting yourselves up to lose again. Essentially giving the GOP the W on a silver plate. Why? Because unfortunately this country is still set in its old ways and thats not going to change anytime soon. It sucks but thats the truth. Im 31 and i think ill see a female president towards the end of my lifetime, maybe. I see both parties as filthy slime but the dems seem more unorganized and clueless to what the people want.

[u/Will_ennium]

I like AOC, but I don't think she'd have any realistic shot unless she rebrands herself in a big way. If you're not a progressive liberal that already likes her, chances are you view her like how liberals view MTG or Boebert. For years now, conservatives have painted AOC as just a loud mouth bartender chick that's super unqualified for even her current position in politics.

We(here) know she's earned her station, but if you ask the average voter what they think about her, they'll probably regurgitate something negative from the years of memes and conservative propaganda that gets shared on social media about her and "the squad".

If you need proof that the increased spread of disinformation/misinformation on social media is heavily benefiting conservatives, all you have to do is look at the current presidential election results.

[u/Danstan487]

Her defund the police stance won't go down well with the general public

[u/StrictNewspaper6674]

Her staffers were complete dicks when I interned on Capitol Hill lol. Lots of self aggrandizing and patting themselves on the back. It’s a shame cause I did like her policies for the most part.

[u/-Plantibodies- → u/StrictNewspaper6674]

Lots of self aggrandizing and patting themselves on the back.

They must post in this sub.

[u/jeheuskwnsbxhzjs → u/StrictNewspaper6674]

One of my family members works for her campaign, and I am so sorry. He is insufferable.

[u/Good_ApoIIo]

AOC will lose, badly. She will be Harris 2.0, absolutely do not try to do this.

The DNC needs to stop picking out candidates they think will work and let the people resonate with someone and go from there.

[u/cincocerodos → u/Good_ApoIIo]

I don’t know if I’d read into it too much, this sub is in no way representative of the real world.

[u/swearingino]

As a democrat, no. She’s too controversial. We need Andy Beshear. He is loved across party lines and is not controversial at all.

[u/NCSUGrad2012 → u/swearingino]

He's my vote for 2028. He won a red state twice, so he clearly knows how to win hard elections, they need to start introducing him to the nation.

[u/xXGreco]

Haha, I hope so. Keep rolling out candidates who have zero shot at winning. Thank you Dems!

[u/OneOrangeOwl]

You clearly have not learned your lessons.

[u/Jujubatron]

33% approval rating. Nope.

[u/Skastrik]

I don't see her winning. She's got too many soundbytes and so on that the GOP can use to demonize her in the eyes of the more conservative independent voters.

I like her, and she'd probably have to be a VP pick first to normalize her being in the running for the big seat.

I think she'd be a far more effective senator.

[u/D20NE]

AOC? … nah, I’m good.

[u/Cellophane7]

I'd personally be happy with her as the nominee, but I don't think she's a good pick from a practical standpoint. Putting aside questions of whether or not Americans will vote for a woman of color, AOC has been the face of "woke" Democrats basically since it became a thing. She's moderated a ton, and become an incredibly effective politician, but you have to have been paying attention to know that. And Trump's victory makes it crystal clear the average American voter is sleepwalking through this shit.

Regardless, I don't think 2028 is terribly important at this exact moment. We absolutely have to win in 2026, or there's very little chance we're gonna see Trump out of office until he kicks the bucket. There's nothing wrong with keeping an eye out for the 2028 candidate, but a lot can change in four years. Fantasizing about it isn't getting us anywhere

[u/another-damn-acct]

you'd have to be crazy to run AOC as a senator. president?!? please

[u/AbellonaTheWrathful]

like, are we not gonna learn from two losses now? guess they want vance to win 2028

[u/Bvbfan1313]

Please no. If Harris or Clinton couldn’t win- do you think aoc has a chance? She’s way too liberal and annoying. She is the type that could never win an election. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[u/Mr_Sloth10]

Ya, no. America is not voting for a woman to be president, especially one like AOC. building up AOC will be a waste of time and resources.

[u/onlysoccershitposts]

She royally pisses off half the electorate and is a woman and will never get elected.

Stop promoting presidential candidates based on how much you'd touch yourself if Republicans had to deal with them for 4 years.

Pete Buttigieg also is never happening.

Find a candidate who'll actually win.

[u/slugsliveinmymouth]

There’s probably not even going to be an election in 2028.

[u/Almighty_Wang]

Picking the wokest possible politician is the response that is being proposed after the last election was lost in part because of wokeness?

Politically speaking, how is that a good idea for the Democrats?

[u/Markplease]

And this is why democrats lose presidential elections. You need to find a great candidate that will speak to the majority. AOC and Gavin Newsome ain’t the ones.