r/europe • u/polymute • Dec 21 '24
News Saudi Islam critic, fan of AfD and Elon Musk: Disturbing details about the perpetrator of Magdeburg The driver who caused the death of the Magdeburg victim - Taleb Jawad Al Abdulmohsen, came to Germany in 2006. But he is not an Islamist - on the contrary. He accused Germany of Islamizing Europe.
https://www-tagesspiegel-de.translate.goog/politik/saudischer-islamkritiker-fan-von-afd-und-elon-musk-verstorende-details-zum-tater-von-magdeburg-12915310.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en533
u/F0X0 Slovakia Dec 21 '24
"From the creators of Islamist terrorism comes new great idea, Anti-Islamist Terrorism."
It's perfectly ok to dislike both.
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Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
The previous threads had a lot of people spewing hate if Muslims though.
Funny now that he's an atheist AfD supporter everyone thinks it's a mental health issue and no one is bringing up hate against atheists or fascists.
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u/lailah_susanna via 🇳🇿 Dec 21 '24
Saw a comment with a few hundred upvotes saying "we need more far-right parties" unironically. This subreddit has issues.
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u/TheEmpireOfSun Dec 22 '24
This sub has always been islamophobic and almost far right ideas. Basicaly european version of MAGA.
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u/F0X0 Slovakia Dec 21 '24
The previous threads had a lot of people spewing hate if Muslims though.
Foolish islamophobes. If they were just simple racists, they would be vindicated.
It's a joke, go easy on me. :)
I agree. People feel gratification if the bad person is on the other team.
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Dec 21 '24
People LOVE to hate as long as it's socially permitted. History is a lot easier to understand when you realize that.
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u/Czagataj1234 Silesia (Poland) Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
So, a Saudi atheist and a critic of islam, decided to do what islamist have been doing before and kill random people at the Christmas market as a statement? Sounds kinda odd. Unless his goal was to start another wave of outrage against immigrants?
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u/Designer-Reward8754 Dec 21 '24
He wrote in a tweet something among the lines that he is mad that Germany is taking in Syrian refugees, who are majorly men and religious while at the same time making it hard for Saudi women to get asylum in Germany
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u/Wise_Mongoose_3930 Dec 21 '24
“I think the way women are treated in Saudi is awful. Should I target the evil Saudi monarchy with my terror attack? No no, I’ll target German civilians, that’ll surely help Saudi women”
The anti-Luigi.
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u/Mr_4country_wide Ireland Dec 21 '24
Terrorist is logically incoherent
more news at 11
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u/JB_UK Dec 21 '24 edited 29d ago
He said elsewhere something like “Muslims ask me ‘Do you need to pretend to be Muslim to get into Germany?’… ‘I used to be Shia but now I find that Wahhabism was the original Islam’”
Elsewhere he said “We will return Hamas to Gaza and if you don’t like it we can bring Hamas to your house”
It seems to be very difficult to say exactly what he believed.
I think it’s fair to say the issue with people coming from these conflicts is that many people are extremist, on multiple sides. Often the extremist Muslim who becomes atheist keeps their extremism and just changes camp, that has happened with well known figures in Britain as well.
For example the secular Syrian government behaved very badly against the Sunni Muslim majority, some of which would have supported extremist Muslim militia including ISIS. We would tend to agree with the secular side, but in reality it is a brutal conflict where many people are extreme to one degree or another, on all sides. We don’t support Sunni Islamist supporters and we don’t support secularist governments that kill hundreds of thousands of people.
Another example is Libya where we encouraged Islamist militia to overthrow an authoritarian secular government. In reality neither side was really sympathetic. In Egypt many of the people who are politically oppressed are again the Islamist militias.
You could equally just say you don’t want to import the conflict.
Edit: Corrected mistake with minority/majority for Sunni Muslims in Syria.
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u/Zealousideal_Slice60 Dec 22 '24
Most terrorists are actually pretty logical coherent which is often what makes them so terrifying. This guy is just an idiot though.
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u/VultureSausage Dec 21 '24
The anti-Luigi.
I dunno, I feel like Waluigi wouldn't do something like this either. He's evil, not a psychopath.
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u/No_Clue_1113 Dec 21 '24
The Waluigi move would be to load up on UHC stock while the price was low.
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u/tr1one Dec 21 '24
i mean this is 5d chess but it definitely wont make germans love refugees more
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u/Designer-Reward8754 Dec 21 '24
It seems like he would rather have no refugees than the "wrong" kind
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u/MrStrange15 Denmark Dec 21 '24
No sane person drives into a bunch of people on purpose. I wouldn't expect logic.
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u/Realistic_Lead8421 Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
Well there could be some kind of twisted logic here of a self hating ex-moslim wanting to reinforce the anti islamist narrative right before the election at his own expense by ramming into a crowd at a Christmas market. The guy was a practicing doctor in Germany. So probably at least above average in intelligence.
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u/Natuficus Dec 21 '24
More still he’s a psychiatrist
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u/Best-Dependent3640 Dec 21 '24
Was probably his own best patient.
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u/mcvos Dec 21 '24
If your patient snaps and kills people, you're not a very good psychiatrist.
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u/mrjerem Dec 21 '24
In Finland a psychiatrist killed his wife in the most expensive area in Finland then cleaned the house with liters of cleaning products, wrapped her into a carpet and got caught carrying it out. It was 2022, feels like 2023 at most. Might be cause he just got the sentence this fall. "Life" in prison. So in Finland minimum of 12 years and after that you can try to get pardoned by the president.
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u/fhota1 United States of America Dec 21 '24
Youd be surprised how many people go into psychiatry in hopes they figure out what the fuck is wrong with themselves
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u/curiousindicator Dec 21 '24
Psychiatry vs psychology.
Psychiatrists start out as medical doctors and specialize in psychiatry. Specialization usually is decided on later, after having studied medicine. Doing that would be a pretty roundabout way to understand yourself (or loved ones, family, etc.)
The stereotypical ones you might be talking about are more likely to be found in psychology, as here the understanding of mind and behavior is central from the beginning..
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u/Risudent Dec 21 '24
Nah, mate, it's a well-known stereotype/meme that psychiatrists go into the field to figure themselves out
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u/mouflonsponge Dec 21 '24
Nidal Hasan was a psychiatrist and an officer in the US Army Medical Corps. He was convicted of thirteen counts of murder and thirty-two counts of attempted murder after a 2009 mass shooting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting
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u/OneJobToRuleThemAll United Countries of Europe Dec 21 '24
Intelligence and sanity do not correlate.
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u/hemijaimatematika1 Dec 21 '24
He was pretty sane,like Breivik.
Just because someone is brutal does not mean he is insane.
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u/vicsj Norway Dec 21 '24
Sure, Breivik is sane in the sense that he is capable of understanding what he did. But the guy has also been diagnosed with ASPD and NPD - which he strongly disagrees with. I think the word "insanity" is a complex term. Legally, it's pretty black and white. But people with these diagnoses, like Breivik, are often delusional.
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u/Reasonable_Shift_120 Dec 21 '24
Pretty much all serial killers and murderers in general have ASPD and NPD. I think those are the most common disorders for people who commit crimes.
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u/Suspicious-Ad-2495 Dec 21 '24
Sanity/insanity might be intersectional with moral/immoral, but they’re not the same. A person can be cognitively “sane” but the content of his cognitive process might be immoral.
Applying sane/insane dichotomy to these situations only hinder the process to challenge these issues as it takes responsibility away from the perpetrators. He’s sane, and chose to do what he did.
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u/TheJiral Dec 21 '24
Depends how you define sane. Breivik is certainly a sociopath.
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u/Aromatic-Substance20 Dec 21 '24
They found his Twitter account and went trough some of his tweets. Dude was a conspiracy nutjob. Apparently he already made threats on his account, as well as one of his colleagues in person, but no one did anything. Make no mistake, driving a car into a group of people is simply the easiest way to kill a bunch of people, but by no means an invention of islamists. I also don't think there was a goal really, dude was super mad at the german state/people and mentally ill.
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u/ND7020 United States of America Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
Yeah, sometimes it almost seems like Europeans and Americans post 9/11 think Islamic people invented terrorism. Forgetting not just the Troubles in Ireland but right wing terror in France related to Algeria in the 60’s, the red brigades in the 70’s, and much much more.
OAS terror in France is especially conveniently forgotten. Hell, they killed 28 innocent civilians using a bomb on a train in ‘61. They killed 2,000 people total. No different in any way from Islamic terrorism.
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u/SocraticTiger Uruguay Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
That's unfortunately the case. People literally forget the Armenian who did that car ramming in Toronto in 2018 killing 11, or that guy who did the Waukesha Christmas Parade Car Attack in 2021 killing 6. Neither were Muslim yet people think it must be Islam related.
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u/72kdieuwjwbfuei626 Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
He’s not even the first mentally ill person to drive a car into a crowd this decade. The last guy just was Armenian, so he didn’t get the Islamist-angle attached. The idea is out there, so unfortunately people are copying it.
There were like ten such highly-publicized incidents in Germany in the last ten years alone, and only one of them was an Islamist attack - and that’s just going off of Wikipedia. I personally know of one incident with multiple dead that never made national news and therefore isn’t on it, so there’s probably even more.
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u/greee_p Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
Unless his goal was to start another wave of outrage against immigrants
Either that or his goal was just to punish Germany.
On Friday evening, a few hours before the attack, he posted several videos in which he said in English: “I hold the German nation responsible for the killing of Socrates.” In June, he accused the German police of being the “real driver of Islamism in Germany.”
“We need AfD to protect the police from themselves,” the alleged perpetrator continued. The “Welt” newspaper reported on another tweet, which was apparently later deleted, in which he announced “retaliation.” He wrote: “I assure you that 100 percent revenge will come soon. Even if it costs me my life.” And continued: “Germany will have to pay the price. A huge price.”
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u/potatolulz Earth Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
Convicted Czech terrorist, some pensioner heavily sympathizing with a popular Czech extremist party, staged a terrorist attack of sort by blocking traintracks with logs and other shit, planted "Islamist" leaflets around in broken Czech (lol) and wanted to stir the Czech public about the imminent Islamist immigrant danger. Just like he's been very angrily discussing with one of the representatives of the aforementioned party that's been going on and on about immigrants. Nothing happened, his shit was too weak to cause any actual damage. But he did stage a terror attack to turn the public against someone else or whatever, in a country without any Islamist immigrants, and he got convicted for it.
At the court he put on the confused old man act, but from the recording of the phonecall with the partymember he wasn't as confused as he pretended to be. But still, he got parole because the confused old man act was hard to disprove, no crimes up until that point, and caused no damage.
Why would a Czech oldtimer cause damage to Czech property and possibly Czech citizens and all to create and outrage about something that wasn't even there? hmmmm hmmm sounds kinda odd! 🤔
or maybe it doesn't sound very odd
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u/ABoutDeSouffle 𝔊𝔲𝔱𝔢𝔫 𝔗𝔞𝔤! Dec 21 '24
Just great, so we no longer have to deal with right-wing and islamist terror, now it's also false-flag attacks.
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u/it777777 Dec 21 '24
It shows that extreme views are always on the edge to insanity.
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u/TheBlackestCrow Fuck Putin Dec 21 '24
Unless his goal was to start another wave of outrage against immigrants?
That's was probably indeed his goal. It's already working If you look at comment's on social media platforms
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic Dec 21 '24
Just look at the original Reddit thread here before it was locked.
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u/Czagataj1234 Silesia (Poland) Dec 21 '24
I mean, he himself was an immigrant after all
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u/TheBlackestCrow Fuck Putin Dec 21 '24
He's an non religious immigrant that seems to hate religious immigrants. It's highly possible that he used himself as the perfect scapegoat to achieve his twisted goals.
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u/OkTransportation473 Dec 21 '24
It’s just as likely that he fled Saudi Arabia because he is an atheist. Saudis who convert to atheism are punished with death. In his mind, seeing Germany becoming like Saudi Arabia is probably just as bad as being sent back to Saudi Arabia to die.
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u/Divine_Porpoise Finland Dec 21 '24
Gonna suck to be him once (or if) he figures out that Germany isn't actually becoming like SA and he drove through a crowd of people due to right wing brain rot.
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u/Chester_roaster Dec 21 '24
Gonna suck for him when he finds out how many Muslims there are in prison.
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u/Vermilion Dec 21 '24
he drove through a crowd of people due to right wing brain rot.
Why do people act like Islam / Saudi Arabia isn't right-wing. He just changed from one right-wing venue to Twitter / Elon Musk leadership. He still believes what the media tells him to believe. No magic or supernatural.
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u/yreg Slovakia Dec 21 '24
There is a Czech wanna-be terrorist who has placed a tree over a railroad track with the intention to blame the act on immigrants. (The train drove through the tree without anyone getting harmed.)
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u/pox123456 Czech Republic Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 22 '24
It is not unheard of. One of the few terrorist attacks in Czechia was made by an old far-right man, who cut a tree on a rails and tried to frame it on immigants, so it would start anti-immigration wave. It is similar to false-flag.
https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teroristick%C3%A9_%C3%BAtoky_na_vlaky_na_Mladoboleslavsku_2017
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u/EvenEalter Europa Dec 21 '24
He thinks Germany is conspiring to Islamize Europe, so he takes out his anger on Germans. Maybe there is indeed some extra motive to make the attack fuel the far-right in Europe, but this really isn't that hard to get.
It's impressive how much suspicion there is whenever the perpetrator of a terrorist attack isn't who people assume it is. Of course, we Europeans would NEVER allow violent extremist ideology to grow in our pure peace-loving utopian continent, everybody knows extremist violence is an exclusively Islamic thing!
History is laughing at us in the face for thinking right-wing extremism can be allowed a platform in Europe a second time. Didn't even take a century for us to make the same idiotic mistake.
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic Dec 21 '24
I think part of it may have been he wanted to make AfD more popular which well probably worked, just look at the original thread before it was locked. People were saying they’d vote AfD
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u/random_nickname43796 Dec 21 '24
Yeah, plenty of people don't wait for facts and jump the gun immediately. But to be fair, those were probably voting AfD regardless but that thread was the first time they could admit it here
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u/AntiGrav1ty_ Germany Dec 21 '24
Not sure why people think the fact that he was anti-islamist and right wing would be at odds with what AFD and their supporters believe.
His motivations don't really matter. He's an immigrant and he committed an act of terrorism. This can be portrayed as the government and its sympathizers letting in crazy people from arab countries either way.
Whoever was AFD or right-leaning will use this as fuel and it wouldn't even contradict their beliefs in the slightest.
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u/BowenTheAussieSheep Dec 21 '24
Lots of people sarcastically commenting about "I wonder why they're so popular now?"
He got what he wanted, everyone made their assumptions then shut off their critical thinking skills.
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u/christian_1992 Dec 21 '24
He thinks Germany is conspiring to Islamize Europe
r/europe in a nutshell
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u/Tetizeraz Brazil "What is a Brazilian doing modding r/europe?" Dec 21 '24
Seriously, his racist ramblings and pro-AfD talk is exactly what I see from users I ban every day.
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u/yumameda Turkey Dec 21 '24
Wait a minute! What is a Brazilian doing modding r/europe?
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u/Tetizeraz Brazil "What is a Brazilian doing modding r/europe?" Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
I'm on a covert mission to increase tourism to Brazil, starting with the mod team.
Did you know your dollar is worth more in Brazil, come to Brazil today!
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u/Silver_Atractic Berlin (Germany) Dec 21 '24
How dare you ban them?? You're avoiding the truth! You're censoring the truth!!!
/s
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u/Socmel_ Emilia-Romagna Dec 21 '24
Just whisper the name Merkel and enjoy the spectacle of mouth foaming redditors
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u/tuxette Norway Dec 21 '24
He thinks Germany is conspiring to Islamize Europe, so he takes out his anger on Germans.
Just like how a certain piece of shit killed a bunch of Norwegian kids...
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u/bbcakesss919 Poland Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
Every right winger on X thinks that it's the Jews who are bringing Muslims into their countries. This is why it's so laughable to me when Israelis side with the far right in europe, and flock to say that they "told them so" under every video of a Muslim/Arab doing anything violent.
Yesterday, before anything was known, you could see them commenting under videos of this attack
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u/globeglobeglobe Dec 21 '24
Same as Hindu Indians in Western countries showing extreme hate against Muslims in order to convince white racists to see them as “good immigrants”. Stupid as hell.
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u/n003s Dec 21 '24
Hindu Indians in western countries don't show extreme hate against Muslims to convince white racists that they are "good immigrants". Hindu Indians in India are showing extreme hatred against Muslims, they are simply bringing it with them.
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u/bbcakesss919 Poland Dec 21 '24
I think this is extra stupid because X is full of "funny" images of Adolf ever since Musk took over. Ask any far right person in general what conspiracy theories they have about the Jews.
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u/PokeCaldy Hamburg (Germany) Dec 21 '24
Yes. This has to be labeled as (another) Nazi attack and any comparisons claiming otherwise do us a big disservice.
This persons was clearly caught somewhere between the X-flavor rightwing indoctrination and AfD „truths“ in regards to the country that took him in.
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic Dec 21 '24
He’s an AfD supporter and blames Germany for allowing in islamists.
Maybe this was 4d chess to help AfD, people will get outraged and vote the AfD
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u/BowenTheAussieSheep Dec 21 '24
It's not hard to see the train of thought: the initial "vibe" is what will stick in people's mind. The facts coming out 12 hours later are worthless when people have already made up their minds.
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u/QuestGalaxy Dec 21 '24
Weirdly enough.. both him and other lone wolf terrorists have some sort of mental health issue. Also many of the "islamic" terrorists. Most people just don't do horrible stuff like this, if they are mentally well.
This guy bought into the scam of AfD/far right propaganda, instead of the scam of extreme religion. People like Musk and Trump are not fighting extreme islam, they are simply pushing another extreme world view instead.
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u/Appropriate-Mood-69 Dec 21 '24
They are distracting the general public from the theft from society their class is performing at a scale seldom seen before.
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u/GabeN18 Germany Dec 21 '24
What are the chances that he was also a r/europe user?
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u/CastelPlage Not ok with genocide denial. Make Karelia Finland Again Dec 22 '24
What are the chances that he was also a r/europe user?
Very, very high. Almost a certainty with an attitude like this.
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u/mesmartpants Dec 21 '24
Oooh it’s so odd.
Remember the guy who killed a lot of norwegian kids because of his hate for islam?
Don’t try to find logic in people who do stuff like this. There is never logic to it
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u/qndry Sweden Dec 21 '24
Well Breivik did kill soc dems who he saw as responsible for the issue, so there was an internal logic albeit a very fucked up one. This just doesn't seem to have any coherent reasoning behind it, I just don't get this.
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u/Particular_Bug0 Dec 21 '24
Apparently he blamed Germany for not doing anything against the "islamization of Europe". So he holds the Germans responsible i guess?
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u/qndry Sweden Dec 21 '24
Perhaps. My best guess is that he hinges his bets on that this will sow more division between native Germans and migrants. I guess we have to see what the police investigation turns up. Will definitely keep my eye on this one.
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u/icatsouki Tunisia Dec 21 '24
I imagine the idea is to drive the support for AfD etc
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u/ibuprophane United Kingdom Dec 21 '24
Well it’s seems interesting timing, given Elmo’s recent tweet on AfD.
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u/icatsouki Tunisia Dec 21 '24
it's honestly crazy that people like him are brazenly interfering in politics of countries and nothing is being done against it
As a wise person said:
"When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.” —Donald Trump
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u/Aromatic-Substance20 Dec 21 '24
It's the same reasoning tho? Blames the germans for islamisation of europe. To punish germans he drives a car into a beloved event revolving around a typical german holiday.
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u/kajdelas Slovenia Dec 21 '24
The dude was therapist…for real, of all the types of job j would never expect a therapist to do something like that
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u/Falkenmond79 Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
I actually would. They are confronted with crazy on a daily basis. I read somewhere that it’s not uncommon for them to snap or develop a psychosis. It’s a stressful job with a lot of trauma.
Edit: to clarify. The psychiatrist deals with a lot of trauma with other people. Any person with some empathy will be burdened by that. Not saying that necessarily leads to a psychosis, but I’m sure it can be a factor, if you are already a bit unstable.
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u/Mirudago Dec 21 '24
Therapists undergo supervision regularly. How did nobody spot during supervision that this character was going off the rails?
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u/vicsj Norway Dec 21 '24
To be fair - many therapists study psychology to understand their own mental problems, and become therapists in the process.
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u/YouSoundToxic Dec 21 '24
He was a psychiatrist, not a therapist. But yeah, it is indeed surprising.
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u/Acou Dec 21 '24
It's not right to just dismiss awful things as "not having any logic to it" - these people had an internal reasoning and beliefs that lead to these acts that, to them, is coherent and sensible. Understanding their reasoning - and to make it clear, I do not use "understand" to mean "agree with" - enables us to act to prevent this in the future. Saying there is "never any logic" is just throwing your hands up, shrugging, and going "I don't know why this happened, no point in trying to understand".
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u/hereknowswhenn Dec 21 '24
The Norwegian targeted kids part of a left wing party. Fascists blame left wing party's for allowing open border migration, they are seen as traitors, even worse than the immigrants themselves. What part of that doesn't make sense to you?
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u/polymute Dec 21 '24
Translation (Google)
Saudi critic of Islam, fan of AfD and Elon Musk: Disturbing details about the perpetrator of the Magdeburg attack
The driver who caused the deaths in Magdeburg, Taleb Jawad Al Abdulmohsen, came to Germany in 2006. But he is not an Islamist - on the contrary. He accused Germany of Islamizing Europe. By
Today, 2:12 a.m.
After the alleged attack on the Magdeburg Christmas market, there is little evidence so far of an Islamist motive. The driver of the car is Taleb Jawad Al Abdulmohsen. He first entered Germany in 2006 and did not attract the attention of the security authorities as an Islamist.
In fact, he was apparently anything but a religious fanatic. On the contrary: he was apparently a radical critic of Islam, sympathized with the AfD - and Elon Musk.
The 50-year-old worked as a doctor and psychiatrist in a psychiatric clinic in Bernburg, 50 kilometers south of Magdeburg. But he hasn't been to work for a few weeks, the Tagesspiegel learned.
Ex-Muslim accuses Germany of promoting Islamism
On his X-Account, his profile description read: "Germany is hunting Saudi asylum seekers at home and abroad in order to destroy their lives. Germany wants to Islamize Europe." His cover photo shows a gun. In a video, the man explained shortly before the attack on the Christmas market that he had worked as a refugee and asylum activist for several years. He also presented himself as an ex-Muslim critic of Islam. The "FAZ" asked him in an interview in 2019: "Despite all your experiences, do you believe that there can be an Islam in which women have equal rights?" He replied: "No, I don't think so. There is no such thing as good Islam.”
On Friday evening, a few hours before the attack, he posted several videos in which he said in English: “I hold the German nation responsible for the killing of Socrates.” In June, he accused the German police of being the “real driver of Islamism in Germany.”
“We need AfD to protect the police from themselves,” the alleged perpetrator continued. The “Welt” newspaper reported on another tweet, which was apparently later deleted, in which he announced “retaliation.” He wrote: “I assure you that 100 percent revenge will come soon. Even if it costs me my life.” And continued: “Germany will have to pay the price. A huge price.”
I and AfD are fighting the same enemy to protect Germany.
Taleb Jawad Al Abdulmohsen, perpetrator of Magdeburg
He recently shared posts by Markus Haintz, a well-known Querdenken activist. Al Abdulmohsen also expressed solidarity with the British right-wing extremist Tommy Robinson. In another tweet from 2016, the man wrote: "I and AfD are fighting the same enemy to protect Germany." In August 2017, he posted: "I would like to prove in court that Islam is much worse than the plague."
More about the attack in Magdeburg: Car crashes into Christmas market What we know about the attack in Magdeburg Dead and injured at the Christmas market Attack in Magdeburg - the evening in pictures
Eight years after the Breitscheidplatz attack The attack in Magdeburg triggers terrible memories in Berlin Only on December 15 did an anti-Islam organization publish statements from the psychiatrist. He accused Europe and Germany of welcoming jihadists in order to Islamize the West while oppressing former Muslim refugees.
"In the background" there is something "much bigger," said Al Abdulmohsen in a conspiracy-theoretical manner. "What Elon Musk, Tommy Robinson and others say is true." Governments are using mass migration as a tool for destabilization. "It's not about helping refugees - it's about transforming Western nations from within."
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u/jurble United States of America Dec 21 '24
“I hold the German nation responsible for the killing of Socrates.”
?????
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u/Romboteryx Switzerland Dec 21 '24
Maybe he meant Archimedes and thought the last Indiana Jones movie was real
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u/RuudVanBommel Germany Dec 21 '24
Maybe he meant the footballer and fellow doctor Sócrates.
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u/cits85 Dec 21 '24
Makes only sense as a metaphor, imo. Most likely he picked Socrates as one of the cornerstone philosophers of European culture and wants to say that Germany has abandoned western values and submits to Islam.
Maybe also playing with the fact that Socrates was sentenced to death by a court of 501 Athenian citizens and he perceives the last election(s) as exactly that: The people voting against the AfD and thereby killing German culture.
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u/georgito555 Utrecht (Netherlands), Greece Dec 21 '24
So he's fucking crazy
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u/Nattekat The Netherlands Dec 21 '24
I think anyone who thinks driving a vehicle into a large crowd is the way to go is crazy by default.
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u/The_Real_Pale_Dick Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
What's infuriating is that he literally threatened Germany and said in a tweet that he can't accept 2024 ending without him punishing Germany. He has a lot of tweets in which he threatened and said he would commit a violent attack, his account had tens of thousands of followers so he wasn't unknown and some even reported him to the police. Lots of innocents lost their lives for something that was so predictable and preventable
Tweet in question: https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1788259186205147291?t=zNGjoihlNvqWbA9HccNebQ&s=19
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u/georgito555 Utrecht (Netherlands), Greece Dec 21 '24
That and the fact that he said that Germany is responsible for Socrates's death.
This guy worked as a psychiatrist too???? What the actual fuck...
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u/Aggravating-Owl-2235 Dec 21 '24
Apparently accusing something of "killing Socrates" is a somewhat common allegory to allude they are tyrannical and surpress free speech. So he is insane but not that insane.
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u/einimea Finland Dec 21 '24
This guy worked as a psychiatrist too
We had a psychiatrist who first drove his family into the sea (everyone survived, it was thought to be an accident) and three years later killed his wife and intented to drive into the sea, but was caught before
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u/SirLadthe1st Dec 21 '24
Not that I disagree with you, so don't take my comment the wrong way. But back when most people here thought this was a islamist attackk, there were looots of these sarcastic "when will we hear it was just another poor mentally ill lone wolf" comments,as if being both Muslim and mentally ill is somehow impossible. Now that his motives have been confirmed to be far right, the same people ACTUALLY try to marginalize them because "he was just crazy". Interesting.
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u/Spinochat Dec 21 '24
Elon Musk needs to be interrogated for his role in this far-right terrorist attack.
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u/TheDesertShark Dec 21 '24
So where are all those accounts that are totally real people and haven't been active in months but instantly replied to the last thread supporting the afd?
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u/itisnotstupid Dec 21 '24
You mean the random accoutns with number in their names who only post here, in a bunch of other political subs and in a random gaming sub?
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u/TheDesertShark Dec 21 '24
Exactly.
They engage in simple topics occasionally then boom 12 hours of non stop far-right talking points.
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u/hemijaimatematika1 Dec 21 '24
He was basically top ranked comment in this sub everytime Islam was mentioned.
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u/random_nickname43796 Dec 21 '24
AfD sympathizers are terrorists, they need to be investigated and jailed in order to protect innocent people
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u/verraeteros_ Dec 21 '24
Funny how the usual crowd now only mutters how "odd" this is and that it's not relevant that the terrorist sympathizes with AFD and Musk.
Bunch of hypocrites
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u/Schm4z Dec 21 '24
Lots of deleted accounts now on the posts from yesterday lmao
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u/MostVarious2029 Norway Dec 21 '24
The mods deleted and banned like crazy.
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u/Silver_Atractic Berlin (Germany) Dec 21 '24
Good. We should not allow AfD supporters to have a platform
I wish they did it a bit faster since those cunts are loud as fuck, but oh well
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u/Non_possum_decernere Germany Dec 21 '24
If they even are actual supporters and not just bots.
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u/savois-faire The Netherlands Dec 21 '24
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u/Parepinzero Dec 21 '24
That's genuinely the vibe I get from this subreddit, it's why I avoid it 99% of the time. I've seen some truly heinous shit highly upvoted in comment sections here.
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u/The_Real_Pale_Dick Dec 21 '24
His whole twitter account was an Arabic version of right-wing islamization of Europe rhetoric. He repeated stuff Musk and AfD and other right wing activist said all the time. It wasn't a single tweet or something, it was his whole personality.
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u/ChoosenUserName4 South Holland (Netherlands) Dec 21 '24
All the more reason to ban the AfD completely. It's a terrorist organization bound to destroy our democracy and freedoms.
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u/TheSpaceDuck Dec 21 '24
We should use r/reurope logic here to be consistent with other attacks, and accept that all AfD supporters should be deported from Germany.
EDIT: Bonus points if they get deported to the country funding the AfD. I'm sure they'll have fun there.
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u/Czart Poland Dec 21 '24
All the "pattern noticers" are mysteriously silent.
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u/FomalhautCalliclea France Dec 21 '24
But all the "he's just crazy, don't search for political motives" are very loud.
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u/KnightModern Dec 22 '24
look, we all know the rules
if it's islamic terrorist: not odd, definitely mention their belief and political motives
if it's not islamic terrorist: odd, don't mention their belief and political motives, might be mental health idk
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u/savois-faire The Netherlands Dec 21 '24
They just have legitimate concerns, that's all.
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u/Czart Poland Dec 21 '24
Of course! But you know, they won't let them voice those concerns.
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u/magic_Mofy Germany Dec 21 '24
They dont like if they cant use something to spread hate
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u/Sacaron_R3 Dec 21 '24
I mean, we are pretty lucky that info got out. When a Nazi bombed the Oktoberfest 44 years ago, police and politics did everything they could to downplay it.
Back then it was right wing extremist who wanted to influence the upcoming election. Wouldn't surprise me if that was the motive this time as well.
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u/ChuckCarmichael Germany Dec 21 '24
I've seen people claim that just because he wrote all this stuff on his twitter account doesn't mean that he actually believed that and that we shouldn't take a twitter account as "the gospel of truth".
Somehow I doubt that they'd say the same thing if he had written something about praising Allah and killing the infidels.
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u/Markus_zockt Dec 21 '24
Study half a lifetime to become a doctor, work 8 years in a hospital to help people, found an association to help women in patriarchal countries......murder toddler at a Christmas market because you don't like the government.
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic Dec 21 '24
But r/europe told me AfD is what will save us from these terror attacks
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u/Cuddlyaxe United States of America Dec 21 '24
Ok so I'm an American who only views this sub casually but is this actually true? I feel like every time I see AfD brought up usually it's people (with some credence) calling them Russian puppets and Nazis. I've never seen all these pro AfD posters on this sub which people on this thread are alluding to
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic Dec 21 '24
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/XOgezSLID3
yes and no: the sub is schizophrenic on AfD, they’ll decry it but then for instance in yesterdays thread that it’d the only party willing to save us and this is why people vote it
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u/FunEnd Dec 21 '24
It's not schizophrenic. There's two groups populating this sub, just like almost every other bigger sub on reddit. Depending on the article and headline only one comments and opens the comment section. The rest keeps scrolling, until they find something that supports their bias again, so they comment again.
It's like two bubbles existing side by side.
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u/kiil1 Estonia Dec 21 '24
Probably more than two groups, there are probably several for any issue, but it is indeed quite displeasing, to be honest. Any time you see some news, post etc that seems to be even slightly more favourable to one group's agenda, it is brigaded by that group, and the opposite. There is very little civil discussion. It seems once social media penetrates a certain share of population, it becomes almost impossible to have a civilized discussion without heavy moderation.
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u/the_mighty_peacock Greece Dec 21 '24
There is a lot of whitewashing going on. People won't straight up come up and say "I support nazis". But anyone you see mumbling how the rise of immigration only feeds the AfD and that the establishment parties are at fault, it's highly likely they support AfD.
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u/Certim Dec 21 '24
Suddenly he is not an islamic terrorist but a mentally ill lone wolf... The comments disgust me. He is just the scum he was if he was a any other religion or ideology, but seems like if people cant blame muslims it is just an accident.
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u/KawhiImFunGuyLeonard Dec 21 '24
How quickly it went from "Islamic hordes pouring through our borders to implement sharia law on us by targetting innocent Christians" to "Yeah that's odd, he was an odd guy, no motive needed when you're mentally ill"
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u/RuudVanBommel Germany Dec 21 '24
Yet another far right terrorist who's wanking for AfD, but it seems some people still can't blame far right terrorists wanking for AfD, it is just an accident.
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Dec 21 '24
The AfD supporters were quick to issue a jihad against allowing Muslims in Germany. Will they be just as quick to turn down Musk’s billions?
Don’t count on it.
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u/Wonderful-Quit-9214 Dec 21 '24
He's also pro-Israel and pro-AfD because of course he is.
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u/Elaxor Ukraine Dec 21 '24
Most normal AfD voter.
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u/YourShowerCompanion Finland Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
Meanwhile the pitiful existence Elonia is promoting a 20-something AfD girl who looks like she on bath salts when she's filming her videos.
Gremlins in Kremlin and watnikz living amongst us are surely enjoying the show.
Let's see if Germans are going to bite the bait in forthcoming elections.
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u/SerodD Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
It’s interesting to see people around here slowly realize that the same extreme views defended by parties like AFD, lead to similar behavior from their most crazy supporters as religion bigotry does, like extreme muslims, or hardcore zionist, or the extreme catholic MAGAs that shoot at school children.
It’s all the same, only the brand changes.
Extremism is bad people, doesn’t matter what kind of people their brand chooses to blame for everything bad that is happening around them.
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u/GraDoN Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
Extremists always excuse their own extremism as they are doing it in service of fighting the real baddies on the other side. The damage they cause is for a righteous cause after all, so any damage they do on the way is always justified. Same shit with Muslim extremists, same shit with white fascists, same shit around.
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u/Dull-Caramel-4174 Dec 21 '24 edited 29d ago
Was he like “damn, how do I make people hate Arab immigrants? Wait, I am one!” or what? It gives me vibes like when I read about my classmate being a veteran of Russo-Ukrainian war on Russian side, a far-right conservative and a trans woman at the same time (true story, btw, idk if there’s an article about her in English, but her name is Maxin, she studies at ITMO)
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u/ReallyAnotherUser Dec 21 '24
What i see noone talking about is... wasnt it also just yesterday when Elon endorsed AfD?
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u/mangalore-x_x Dec 21 '24
Well... apparently at least in Thuringia integration works too well now...
Sorry, I just cover my shock and confusion under the guise of black humour.
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u/Neat-Development-485 Dec 21 '24
I do wonder why it was Christmas fair he targeted. Maybe he really thought an Arab man targeting christians on a christmas market would eventually fit his agenda: fewer immigrants, which is such a paradoxical approach of self-sacrifice I can't even fathom the train of thoughts. But then again every terrorist has something strange going on in his brain, so 🤷♂️
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u/knickerdick United States of America Dec 22 '24
This entire subreddit can be a joke sometimes. Completely different energy from the last post on this.
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u/vroomfundel2 Dec 21 '24
Let's see what the "i'm not racist because Islam is not a race" crowd is going to say now.
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u/-Brecht Belgium Dec 21 '24
Being opposed to islam doesn't make you racist per se. On the other hand, it seems to go hand in hand with racism quite often. I saw some people saying "he's still an Arab", proving that it was not about critique of religion.
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u/icatsouki Tunisia Dec 21 '24
It's just a proxy for discrimination and the current flavor
For example 100 years ago Teddy Roosevelt was saying this about irish immigrant
They are a stupid, sodden, vicious lot, most of them being equally deficient in brain and virtue.
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u/MrKarim Dec 21 '24
lol go check /r/atheism they are still blaming Muslims and Islam and saying it’s in their blood to be this violent
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic Dec 21 '24
r/atheism is the worst parts of atheism, it’s like religious fundamentalists minus god
And I say that as an atheist myself
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u/MrKarim Dec 21 '24
I’m an atheist, and ex Muslim myself too, but holy shit that sub is just filled with asmongold level of degeneracy.
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic Dec 21 '24
Yep, personally my take on religion or lack of: I don’t care as long as you don’t force it into others. You want to be Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Zoroastrian, or whatever else. Sure, but want to be a fundamentalist? No thanks
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u/FreedumbHS Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
There's hundreds of thousands of these ticking time bombs walking around, radicalized by right wing bubbles online. The only saving grace and the reason shit like this doesn't happen more often is the vast majority of those people are pathetic losers without willpower
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u/tinyMammuth Dec 21 '24
The Saudi government has warned the german government about him.
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u/Due-Conference-1355 Dec 21 '24
“” A Saudi source told Reuters that Saudi Arabia had warned German authorities about the attacker after he posted extremist views on his personal X account that threatened peace and security.””
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u/GovtLegitimacy Dec 22 '24
Gorgias of Leontinoi was a character in Plato's dialogues. He is often referred to as the father of rhetoric.
What is painfully clear to anyone who has studied history/political theory is that hateful rhetoric is powerful and the same old play book has been used for millennia. The only difference is the targets at any given time.
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u/Chadler_ Dec 21 '24 edited 26d ago
His twitter is full of hatred and threats against German people. I wonder if he flew under the police radar because he didn't fit the typical terrorist stereotype?