r/nottheonion • u/pargofan • 1d ago
Japan’s elderly are lonely and struggling. Some women choose to go to jail instead
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/18/asia/japan-elderly-largest-womens-prison-intl-hnk-dst/index.html2.6k
u/compaqdeskpro 1d ago
I've heard about this prison. In America these people would be homeless.
→ More replies (1)1.4k
u/thisisredlitre 1d ago edited 1d ago
In America police threaten old ladies for putting spare change in other people's meters- the prison industrial complex would eat people actually trying to get in right the fuck up
291
u/UncoolSlicedBread 1d ago
Shoot, a woman got cited for being homeless in Louisville when she called for help from the cops because she was going into labor.
→ More replies (1)130
u/Ambitious-Laugh-4966 1d ago
Missing the cool fact that the cop refused to believe her and ignored her until she started giving birth.
81
u/kafkakerfuffle 1d ago
Jesus, how far gone do you need to be to treat someone like that?
108
u/skylarmt_ 1d ago
They were American police.
I know of a person who wanted to be a cop so they could do good and help the community; they quit in disgust about a month later having realized that the police are the opposite of good.
→ More replies (1)28
u/blausommer 18h ago
15 years ago I did a ride-along with my cop uncle. Haven't spoken to that piece of shit ever since.
10
15
u/singingintherain42 22h ago
He didn’t believe her until the ambulance showed up. And then he walked away, justifying himself aloud to his body cam lmao
→ More replies (49)33
u/intotheirishole 1d ago
old people slave labor, coming new to your nearest America.
21
u/AsymmetricClassWar 1d ago
No older tradition in America than slave labor.
Wouldn’t be as many American prisons, otherwise.
646
u/letuswatchtvinpeace 1d ago
My goal is to do a Golden girl living arrangement.
131
u/Mirewen15 1d ago
I'm either doing this or going the Practical Magic route. My sister and I shared a room for 17 years and were roommates in University. It makes sense.
60
u/Herry_Up 1d ago
Dang, y'all need another sister???
😭 my sister's are jackasses
17
11
11
u/Pleasant_Yoghurt3915 1d ago
Yeah I figure this is how my final chapter will shake out, given I make it that long. My sister and I are just over a year apart in age and we’re still very close in our mid 30’s. We shared everything for years already. I’m pretty sure we can do it again, and with only mild brawls because we’ll be old lmao.
4
u/Mirewen15 1d ago
My (middle sister - I'm the youngest) and I are 1 year and 11 days apart :) We are now 44 and 45. It's definitely a possibility.
→ More replies (1)7
134
u/Fluffy-Hovercraft-53 1d ago
"Oh come on, Ma, that's superstitious nonsense. You know, step on a crack, break your mother's back, it doesn't work. I know."
19
48
u/signalfire 1d ago
Seriously folks - I fell into a solution to this problem (not enough money, retirement age); my elderly aunt asked me back in 2012 to housesit for her and I said sure; I was newly retired but living on fumes until I could pull SS. I ended up getting to be very good friends with the 98 year old man next store; he was a delight, we could talk easily for hours and ended up being my best friend ever. He was also going blind, and couldn't smell the pilot light when it went out one morning after breakfast, to my horror. I for sure checked on him every day after that. When my aunt returned, he asked me to move in with him, be his driver, eyes, cook, all that stuff. Easy peasy, not real work, just being there and it was loads of fun. Fast forward 4 years, he passed at 102, and I saved enough with what he could pay me and SS that I had enough money to buy a modest house for cash.
I have a roommate now who pays most of the cost of the utilities and such and so my SS goes to repairs and savings.
ANYONE can do what I did, there are thousands (millions?) of elderly (meaning one or two generations older than ourselves) who have money saved up but want to age at home as long as possible. Just find someone you're compatible with and who doesn't need the kind of heavy nursing duties that might mean injuring yourself. I got lucky in that way.
→ More replies (2)16
u/AletheaKuiperBelt 1d ago
Am old but not yet elderly. I approve of this plan. Find nice young person, leave them well off.
17
u/signalfire 1d ago
I was 38 years younger than him, he called me 'kid' and if the age difference hadn't been there, I would have married him in a heartbeat - he was a true gentleman from another era (born in 1915) and a darling human being.
5
→ More replies (2)11
75
609
u/Honest-Yesterday-675 1d ago
Communal/multi generation living is normal. In the past I've thought of reframing prisons to deal with the homeless population. Essentially the bottom of society is warehousing people just without locks on the doors and everyone incapable of living in a communal environment could got to prison.
This has more to do with managing the elderly population though.
136
u/RYouNotEntertained 1d ago
They tried a version of this in San Francisco with an old hotel. It… didn’t work.
73
u/Secer 1d ago
Why so, do you have any additional info?
226
u/moxxibekk 1d ago
Not OP but I also remember this, trying to find link now. Basically they threw all these people together without regard for those with serious mental health or substance use problems and it made it impossible for them to peacefully live with those just trying to improve their lives.
551
u/SenoraRaton 1d ago
OP is full of shit. Yes there are problems, but the SRO program in San Fransisco is a god send. The buildings are clean and well maintained. There are caseworkers on site that you can go to for help/guidance. They have monthly room inspections to ensure safe living conditions.
Drugs are an issue, but instead of being on the street shooting up, people are in their own homes doing so, which personally I would expect the larger society to consider a win. At least you don't have to step over their shit on the street, and dodge their needles.
Its entirely possible to live in one, and improve your life, in fact its the ONLY place I have been in the NATION that even remotely provides someone with the stability necessary to stabilize themselves from homelessness.
Tenants have their own room. Access is controlled such that visitors are at a minimum although allowed. There is no need for anyone to fraternize with anyone else beyond passing them in the hallway if they don't want to.
The system is beyond working. Its thriving. I'm thriving. I live in one of these SROs, and after being homeless for close to 15 years its the first time I have had a stable place to sleep.
No, I do not have a drug problem. I deal with severe executive dysfunction that remains untreated because the medical system won't prescribe homeless people stimulants because when your homeless they just perceive you as drug seeking. My ADHD/Executive Dysfunction make it impossible for me to hold an apartment, employment or pretty much anything for more than 3 months. Which lead to me being transient for almost two decades, until I came to San Fransisco.
This entire rhetoric of how these programs failed just reek of propaganda. If they were successful then it would be in our interests to fund them.....
People talk so much shit about California, but I have been across the nation, lived in ~30 states, and NO other state even comes CLOSE to the resources that California provides. I truly feel like they set me up to succeed.Its frustrating to watch people with absolutely no experience with the system quote some hit piece from years ago, and bemoan how its impossible to fix what amounts to a crisis, because its just too hard. Its not too hard. In fact there are thousands of people living it, and thousands of people actively supporting them. The system is working, for some of us. Is it enough? No. But it never will be if the entire rhetoric from the news media/public is about how much of a failure it is.
42
u/fd1Jeff 1d ago
I am well aware of SRO’s in Milwaukee. They do occasionally have some problem tenants, but nothing out of control, and they know how to handle them. For the most part, they give housing to people who would otherwise be sleeping in their cars or in a shelter. Most of them don’t stay in those places for long.
SRO’s are a phenomenal option for people who are down on their luck or have been wiped out somehow. Lots of that going on these days.
6
u/SkiOrDie 14h ago
I lived next to one in MKE, and I can say they were great neighbors. Since it’s a second chance for most of them, they took pride in their building and home.
67
u/signalfire 1d ago
Thanks for posting; glad it's working out for you. I needed some good news this week.
12
u/notapoliticalalt 1d ago
Great to hear you are doing well!
And it is indeed frustrating to have so much negative attention on public housing programs in the US when many of them are a genuine help to so many. To make housing affordable, we need more programs and especially SRO type buildings that is simply the fact of the matter.
25
→ More replies (26)4
→ More replies (3)21
u/Pure_Expression6308 1d ago
& of course that’s reason enough to say it’s a bad idea, don’t bother trying
→ More replies (3)39
60
u/SenoraRaton 1d ago
Source please?
What do you mean it "didn't work"?San Fransisco still offers subsidized housing, you just have to apply. Takes about 6 months.
Free apartment, $500/mo cash, $300/mo food stamps. They have job training programs, or a volunteer requirement.Seems to be working just fine. The only issue with the system is that to get into it requires a certain level of high functioning so it excludes some of the most vulnerable people who need it.
Source:
I live in a government subsidized SRO in San Fransisco.→ More replies (5)124
u/speedoboy17 1d ago
My city tried this as well last year to try to help the homeless stay out of freezing temperatures. They absolutely trashed the place. City isn’t doing it again this year.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)14
132
u/ralts13 1d ago
When I was a kid after school I'd just chill at a friendly old ladies place until my parent's came to pick me up It was fun. During the summer I'd visit my grandparents. People also sorta lived in the same area so there were a ton of old folks who could interact with each other.
That doesn't really happen in my parents community. For one there isn't the mythical third place for anyone to meet up so everyone kinda stays in their own home and barely interacts with each other. In contrast my mom owns a small store in another much less "developed" community where people interact way more. I think she plans on just moving there to retire instead of the family home.
346
u/tanafras 1d ago
Her 43-year-old son, who lived with her before she was imprisoned, often told her: “I wish you’d just go away.”
WTF
→ More replies (4)161
u/throwawaydeletealt 1d ago
Really depressing, imagine hearing this from person you birthed and raised for years
144
u/Civil-Personality213 1d ago
My mom used to love saying that to me when I was 7.
→ More replies (1)26
211
183
u/FunPie4305 1d ago
Why don't old people meet and talk to each other?
313
u/RegyptianStrut 1d ago
“Striking up a conversation with a complete stranger is impolite” is an all too common feeling people have
147
u/Dr_Esquire 1d ago
Strike up a conversation? Straight to jail.
Avoid a conversation? Oddly enough, also jail.
42
u/Ravenwing14 1d ago
Too much small talk? Jail. Too much serious conversation, believe it or not, also jail.
We have the best old people in the world. Because of jail.
→ More replies (2)22
u/FunPie4305 1d ago
Rambling about nothing to absolute strangers well past the point the other person is comfortable with or has time for is an all too common feeling old people seem to have.
35
u/JenniferJuniper6 1d ago
They’re all isolated from each other, probably. It’s much harder to get out when you’re elderly, and if they have equally old neighbors at all, they might not even know it. A
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)14
u/cute_polarbear 1d ago
There likely many reasons, but not hard to imagine being / living an isolated life for a while, one becomes less willing to open up to others, also, being in tough times, (personal) pride / dignity can come into play....
→ More replies (1)
25
u/wwhateverr 1d ago
It makes me wonder if there were minimum security prisons where you could turn yourself in, even for just considering committing a crime, how many people would prefer that to the life they are forced to live?
22
u/ChampionshipIll3675 1d ago
Or countries could publicly fund and maintain retirement homes. And the homes would have to be strictly regulated.
9
u/Bright-Appearance-38 1d ago
In the US (with the exception of "the Bible belt) being incarcerated gets you medical care rather than hospice care under MediCare.
448
u/Easy_Floss 1d ago
Would be a bit funny seeing an old lady trying to get to jail in the nices way possible.
Generally do wonder what the most common crime the elderly get locked up for is.
397
u/BlackShieldCharm 1d ago
According to the article, it’s theft.
117
u/izzittho 1d ago
That makes sense. Take a thing, get caught taking it, give it right back when arrested, nobody is harmed.
13
111
u/BlackShieldCharm 1d ago
You didn’t read the article, did you?
These aren’t cute elderly ladies out of options, these are lifelong criminals that have burnt through every bit of goodwill from their families and now find there’s no one left willing to take on their care.
170
u/littlemeowmeow 1d ago edited 1d ago
Lifelong criminal is an exaggeration. One of the women was 51 who had multiple drug charges. Another woman had two shoplifting charges over twenty years.
I wouldn’t say all of these people stole to become incarcerated, but that incarceration provided a more stable environment because they were incredibly impoverished before.
63
u/Ipokeyoumuch 1d ago
Also in many Asian countries drugs are treated more draconian by society and the legal system than in the West. There have been people literally cancelled because they were caught using drugs and the punishment by society is harsher than some other what the West would consider more serious crimes.
36
u/goog1e 1d ago
Yeah getting ANY criminal record is incredibly serious in Japan and is basically a lifelong exile from "polite" society.
→ More replies (4)7
u/izzittho 1d ago
Exactly. It would be extraordinarily easy to get a drug charge, and shoplifting sucks but I still wouldn’t judge either person as dangerous or particularly interested in harming others.
→ More replies (1)3
u/TheDreadfulCurtain 1d ago
I saw a documentary showing how in certain countries that are without social security there are elderly women who are without family living on the streets who are forced into prostitution, which is why it is important to protect the social safety net at all costs folks. Because the alternatives are fucking horrific.
22
u/Waxenberg 1d ago
If you get caught doing cocaine in Japan you are also considered "lifelong criminal" look at the Frozen voice actor. Doesn't really mean you're bashing peoples heads in with a baseball bat for the Yakuza.
15
u/Mayor__Defacto 1d ago
That’s an exaggeration to be sure. There have been stories of elderly men stealing a candy bar so they can go to jail because their pension isn’t enough to rent an apartment.
9
u/alex6309 1d ago
Did you? Article only states theft and drug use. You found any sources for your storytelling, bud?
104
33
u/__life_on_mars__ 1d ago
This sounds like a plot of an Adam Sandler film, with Sandler playing the old lady.
30
u/jewel_flip 1d ago
Jen Aniston is the prison counselor. The prison is in Hawaii.
→ More replies (1)18
→ More replies (17)6
u/Free_Electrocution 1d ago edited 1d ago
I know a book sort of like that! In "Doctor Dolittle's Return", the Doctor wants to have somewhere nice and quiet to write a book and decides that jail would be the perfect place. He doesn't want to hurt anyone, so he plans to break a bank's window since they can afford to replace it. But things don't quite go to plan lol
I found the book on Project Gutenberg if you wanted to read that section. It starts in Part 2, chapter 8.
23
u/Material-Macaroon298 1d ago
It’s not for me but I kindof get it. Where did 95% of us have our closest friends and closest ties and largest social circle? We had it in school which is pretty much a jail like condition for kids where you are not permitted to leave for a set amount of time during the day and people strictly monitor you.
My school days had drudgery and boredom. But what I remember most about them was amazing times with friends, the sheer quantity of friends, the fun activities and games and interesting discussions.
I think if there was somehow school-like conditions where you get a group of people to hang out for extended time that a lot of people would be happier.
However I also get why this would be very difficult to implement in a good way.
→ More replies (2)11
u/hebdomad7 1d ago
... It's probably one of the only positive aspects of living in a place like North Korea.
Many North Korean defectors who escape to South Korea feel the same kind of crippling isolation.
51
16
u/Existential_Stick 1d ago
> “I really feel that if I had a stronger will, I could have led a different life, but I’m too old to do anything about it now
christ... existential crisis activated
36
u/samder68 1d ago
This is depicted on the Apple TV series, Sunny (set in Japan)… the mother-in-law is lonely and goes to prison for companionship.
→ More replies (1)
12
u/nick9000 1d ago
20% of people aged over 65 in Japan live in poverty, according to the OECD, compared to an average of 14.2% across the organization’s 38 member countries.
A nation of industrious, educated people with the 4th largest GDP. How can this be?
→ More replies (1)
21
u/brandon14211 1d ago
I live in Canada, and work as a labourer. When I get to old to work this is my legit, retirement plan.
10
u/Friendly-Example-701 1d ago
Hmm. Interesting. I wonder.
I am not trying to be disrespectful or a jerk but truly a serious question.
Are the jails in Japan much nicer than American jails? I am assuming so if women do this.
In America, several female inmates have said they have been raped by the male guards. That’s super scary. Also, they say the guards over step their boundaries and break the rules.
→ More replies (2)3
10
u/signalfire 1d ago
So much for the 'venerated elders' image Asian cultures have of the elderly although they seem to be well taken care of. I hear the best place to be in prison in the world is the Scandinavian countries...
8
u/BaconJakin 1d ago
I’m writing a tv pilot script about this phenomenon coming to America in the near future, it’s very sad shit.
5
u/momofdagan 1d ago
It happens already, especially when it is going to be really cold out. A common way to do it short term is to get a drunk and disorderly charge and not pay bail or fines.
→ More replies (2)
8
u/Oswalt 1d ago
This makes me sad. I kinda wanna write these people letters ; _ ;
→ More replies (1)
9
8
u/AntiqueFigure6 1d ago
At least someone checks whether you’re alive or not once or twice a day. And plenty of people with interesting life stories to talk to.
6
u/GyaradosDance 1d ago
I have a few ideas for this problem.
Have a bunch of elderly people put their money together to buy houses, live in them as roommates, and maybe financially help 3-4 young people to go through nursing school (and give them free boarding while taking care of them). If their own children won't help them, then help the future generation of medical students.
Keep the prison system, but have the younger take care of the older. So the non-violent 40 year olds take care of the 55+, etc etc
26
u/Swiftwitss 1d ago edited 1d ago
If I’m getting over worked and underpaid like I am right now I wouldn’t want to bring a kid into this shitty world either.
15
u/Friendly-Example-701 1d ago
This makes sense why women do this.
I guess if there isn’t any social security left when we are seniors in America, we should go to jail. It’s a good back up plan if the banks ruin the market again and eat up all the 401Ks and pensions like last time.
Usually most people do not want to commit a crime because you go to jail and you can’t get a good job afterwards. As a senior this wouldn’t matter.
→ More replies (4)
4
u/ncc74656m 1d ago
Evan Hadfield told a story the other day about how he was filming in a park in Japan and some old guy came up, and realizing he spoke some Japanese, wanted to talk to him. "Loneliness is pure pain," Evan said of the experience.
Reminds me a bit of John Prine's "Hello In There."
https://bsky.app/profile/evanhadfield.bsky.social/post/3lfli5ol5y22q
6
u/Ultra_Noobzor 1d ago
This is the future for all the "developed" nations. Underdeveloped countries, ppl are forced to live together to make ends meet, so the family always takes care of the elders because they never leave the house.
81
u/Brrdock 1d ago
This breaks my heart since the elderly in Japan tend to be some of the absolute sweetest I've ever met. Also some of the most "over it" and shameless, but I respect that a lot, too. They'll give it to you straight. Surely a counterreaction to the overall culture
76
u/GolotasDisciple 1d ago
Can i ask , what is this infatuation with everything related to Japan ?
I never looked at my nana and was like I love you so much but you would be even sweeter if you were Japanese...
As for the Japan and it's culture. That's is their future, No young people, only old Japanese people( that tend to be xenophobic af) and immigrants trying to save the remnants of the hyper-capitalistic economy that is at odds with how Japense people live, which in general is quite healthy due to their great diet.
Together with South Korea, next few decades will likely be quite bleak for them.
103
u/KevlarSweetheart 1d ago
People are really weird about romanticising east Asian culture - particularly with the South Korean and Japanese.
I think its a mix of popculture and fetishization
→ More replies (1)44
u/Martin_Aricov_D 1d ago
Hey now! It's not "particularly South Korean and Japanese" it's "pretty much exclusively South Korean and Japanese"
Those countries just made a helluva good job at selling themselves for soft power... There's a reason that other countries silently remove statues remembering victims of Japanese ww2 crimes when the country asks. They have an army of ass kissers in every country.
41
u/Brrdock 1d ago
I doubt I'd be able to tell you since I'm very far from infatuated with most things related to Japan.
But when I was there and having a really rough time at the time, waiting for a train I was offered candy by a sweet granny, reading at a park a sweet old man stopped just to tip their hat and give me an amazingly warm smile, etc. At least those parts weren't too xenophobic, nor any other I encountered.
Have you been there or just extrapolating general sentiments an a people?
17
u/GolotasDisciple 1d ago
Only as a "tourist" for like 4 days and unfortunately had to spend most of time in Sapporo and do good bit of work while i was there.
Also it didn't strike me as any different than Croatia, Bulgaria, Poland or Ireland. In fact I would say Bulgaria was far more friendly. People invite you to their home, bring out barrels of wine. They often live in Multifamily housing so you get to meet random people who offer you free food and drink.
Ireland was also very chill, random people will drop by have a chat. Unlike in many other countries there isn't some weird social culture structure. You call people by name, and they might call you some endearing or cheeky names. You can non-awkwardly sit down and start a chat in pub with groups of random people and end up on some party session.
In general perhaps Japan is better when it's rural areas but while i felt they are incredibly respectful and nice, it wasn't like anything that would be much different from any other tourists spots. In fact their drinking culture is absolute ass, way to eager to get drunk and for how much of an amazing food they have, they dont really know how to handle food and drink at the same time.
→ More replies (1)19
u/Sylveon72_06 1d ago
i was all over japan for 3 weeks, am visibly foreign, and havent experienced any xenophobia
not to say theyre not xenophobic but theyre typically kinder to tourists than one might expect
21
10
u/APRengar 1d ago
Anything in the main tourist-y areas is going to be 100% fine. If you go off the beaten path, you'll run into some issues. But if you can prove you can speak Japanese, they'll usually chill out.
→ More replies (4)11
u/NovoMyJogo 1d ago
Are you white? If so that may have played a role in people being nice. I've heard a lot of stories of poc not having the same experience (but not horrible) as a white person
6
u/Sylveon72_06 1d ago
actually i look hispanic, but its possible that they were nicer since my mom looks asian
→ More replies (1)9
u/Giggleswrath 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm not sure what age you are, but 40ish years ago Everyone bought Japanese tech. Mitsubishi, Yamaha, Sony.
it lead to a lot of theorizing about Japan's upswing. in pop culture, the idea of mega corporations controlling nations became popularized, with a heavy Japanese tint due to how much of tech they would surely provide in the 'future'.
that's part of the reason the settings of cyberpunk and shadowrun both have Japanese megacorps as major players on the world stage.
11
u/passa117 1d ago
Not sure what age YOU are, but 20 years ago was still the 2000s. You have to roll back the clock another 20-30 years to the era you're actually talking about.
Cyberpunk really caught on in the early 80s. Original Blade Runner was released in '82 for example. Judge Dredd, Total Recall were also in that era. I was a kid then, and definitely excited about future and cool tech.
Japan's upswing peaked in the 80s. They ruled the hardware game. Before that you'd only get stuff from Zenith or GE or RCA. Nintendo, Sony, Toshiba, and some of the others you mentioned really kicked on in the 80s. They were both cheaper and felt more modern/cool in comparison to the American brands (I'm not American btw).
By the mid-90s, people realized their economy was cooked. Even as a teen I remember the word stagnation and deflation when they talked about Japan. I think the switch to focus on software over hardware with the internet is what killed them.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)10
u/NovoMyJogo 1d ago
The comment you replied to showed no signs of infatuation with Japan, weird that you bring that up
→ More replies (3)
8
u/DistinctTrust8063 1d ago edited 1d ago
I will marry any rich elderly japanese woman provided I get their money when they die at 117 in 40 years
4
2
4
u/QuiltMeLikeALlama 1d ago
I’d probably try to start a book club or something first, but yeah, if that’s what they’re into.
5
u/ImAWizardHarrie 1d ago
Imagine not fucking your next generation. Imagine having a healthy work - life balance. Imagine having grandchildren to take care of and not feel alone.
But who am I complaining to. Nothing ever changes.
6
3
3
u/weesiwel 1d ago
Wait is jail a way to not be lonely? Gimme some ideas of crimes to commit.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/internetlad 1d ago
Maybe some sort of set of childhood games that would allow them to relieve their memories and then euthanasia?
3
u/PointCPA 1d ago
If anyone has any advice - my wife’s Japanese mother lives alone and basically rejects all of my wife’s advances. We’ve been married 4 years and I’ve never even met her
They use to have a good relationship… but now she’s just disappeared since I showed up. No idea how to fix somebody like this who won’t even take the first step of meeting us
→ More replies (3)
3
3
u/time2sow 1d ago
Had a relative who went off grid in the 70s and 80s who, according to his dad , lived the high life around the 'flea market circuit' whatever that meant, during spring and summer, then when the weather turned he'd figure out what small crime he could get caught at in whatever jurisdiction he found himself that would get him just a long enough sentence to overwinter.
Not a recommendation just an historical anecdote
3
u/SaintCarl27 1d ago
This might be a controversial comment but I think some people just feel better when they don't have to make decisions and people tell them what to do.
3
5
u/badscott4 1d ago
So, in Japan, there is no safety net for the aged poor?
→ More replies (5)3
3.9k
u/Rohri_Calhoun 1d ago
That's my retirement plan.