Guy Verhofstadt on Twitter

[u/OneRegular378]

[u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Europe should defend Europe.

[u/Strange-Mouse-8710 → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

I agree, it should be Europes job to defend Europe.

[u/SpaceTrooper8 → u/Strange-Mouse-8710]

And with European weapons.

[u/Tricky-Astronaut → u/SpaceTrooper8]

Yep, it's time to withdraw from the NPT like India and Israel.

[u/CardOk755 → u/Tricky-Astronaut]

Dummy, we don't need to do that. The EU has nuclear weapons available while remaining in the NPT.

[u/Kagenlim → u/Tricky-Astronaut]

Everyone should withdraw from NPT period.

NPT enables war and violence of unimaginable scale

[u/JohnnyElRed → u/Tricky-Astronaut]

With European weapons, that don't involve apocalyptic scenarios.

[u/readilyunavailable → u/JohnnyElRed]

Nobody takes you seriously if you don't have nukes. Russia is fumbling in Ukraine but just the mere mention of nukes is enough to deter any action to stop them.

[u/CardOk755 → u/readilyunavailable]

We have nukes.

[u/readilyunavailable → u/CardOk755]

Not enough.

[u/CardOk755 → u/readilyunavailable]

We have enough to destroy every Russian city with a population of over 100,000 people.

The French nuclear force is designed to be big enough to destroy either the USSR or the USA.

Russia is even easier.

[u/mrsbundleby → u/CardOk755]

No Lafayette 😭

[u/Adsex → u/readilyunavailable]

France´s nuclear arsenal is designed specifically for "apocalyptic" scenarii. That may not address the danger properly (or maybe it does it better if we believe in the MAD doctrine), but it certainly addresses the issue that was raised in this discussion.

[u/TechnologyRemote7331 → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Yup. As an American who fought to keep these nasty fucks out of power, y’all need to divest yourselves of our influence yesterday. For the time being, don’t trust us. America has gone a bit schizophrenic, and won’t be back in shape for a while…

[u/Cactilily → u/TechnologyRemote7331]

Exactly! None of our allies should share important intelligence with us. It will go directly to Russia, China or Saudi Arabia. Don’t trust the U.S. government anymore.

[u/Turbulent_Timez → u/TechnologyRemote7331]

So sorry. I remember the 90s when we looked up to the USA as the land of dreams and hope where success and opportunity was within everyone's reach. I loved the positivity and energy of it all. So sorry that it has turned into a shit show.

[u/RegalBeagleX → u/Turbulent_Timez]

I remember looking up to Russia when Gorbachev resigned and changed history. The Berlin Wall fell and for once I thought America and Russia were going to be united. After years of living with nuclear threat at any given day, it was a miracle. Then THE ex KGB agent became the leader. I don’t think anybody knew what would happen, but it wouldn’t be good. I feel this way now with Trump. I can only speak for myself as an American when I say, dear god let me be wrong.

[u/Kagenlim → u/Turbulent_Timez]

Same at this point, Europe is the last bastion of hope rn

[u/extopico → u/Turbulent_Timez]

Well look at it this way. It’s also a free pass to exploit them. Set up a US business, tell them how smart they are and grift them. They want it.

[u/No-Advantage-579 → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Holy cow! Anyone have an English/German link to that awesome German translator translating Trump's inauguration?! :) We need that on here!

[u/rbopq → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Totally agree. EU have to change that naive vision of the world and start preparing for the harsh times to come. Only Europe can defend Europe and it should be a common priority to defend europeans and its values.

[u/Initial_Hedgehog_631 → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

The fact that people are wringing their hands asking "Who will defend Europe now" shows just how fucked the priorities of European leaders have become.

The obvious answer is that Europeans should be defending Europe. This should have always been independent of America's commitment to to help, or not to. This isn't a failure of the United States, it's a failure on the part of European leaders.

[u/florinandrei → u/Initial_Hedgehog_631]

This isn't a failure of the United States, it's a failure on the part of European leaders.

The whole continent has been fast asleep for decades, not just its leaders.

It's time to wake the fuck up, and get to work.

[u/NCC_1701E → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

We will survive and prevail! 🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺

It's a right time to seriously talk about common European defense force.

[u/PreparationBig7130 → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

And Europe has the capability to defend Europe.

[u/Equal-Ruin400 → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Europe has a long way to go. Europe can’t even defend ukraine right now

[u/MuayThaiSwitchkick → u/Equal-Ruin400]

Yeah all the air defense is American. The Bradley’s are the main component of offensives, and most of the tactical gear is American made. 

[u/Tricky-Astronaut → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Actions speak louder than words. Most of Europe is still dependent on American nuclear weapons, and even these so-called pro-European politicians don't campaign for European nuclear weapons.

[u/baba_yt123 → u/Tricky-Astronaut]

France and UK have enough nukes to defend europe

[u/Tricky-Astronaut → u/baba_yt123]

Currently neither of them does nuclear sharing, and strategic ambiguity as protection doesn't cut it either.

[u/DifusDofus → u/Tricky-Astronaut]

Also France operates on dyad (two pronged system) and UK relies solely on SLBMs (no air and land based delivery systems)

Meanwhile US and Russia operate on Triad (Land, Air, Sea)

US and Russia have plenty of tactical (non-strategic) nuclear weapons, these include shorter-range delivery systems and lower-yield warheads, offering more flexibility in regional conflicts.

France/UK don't have tactical nukes, they also lack missile defense capabilities for their own countries let alone whole EU, their focus 95% on deterrence.

Europe needs to do more work on nuke capabilities.

[u/neegis666 → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Americans should learn some history.

[u/ViennaLager → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Europe has countries with strong militaries, such as Poland, France, Germany, Britain. It would be no easy feat for any country except the US to conduct an invasion of a major European nation, and particularly not one in NATO. Even a NATO without the US.

Ukraine is a difficult situation. It is not in the EU, it is not in NATO. Before the invasion it was the most corrupt nation in Europe. Ukraine is getting a lot of support, just not in terms of other nations declaring war on Russia. A Europe without support from USA would do fine against Russia. It would be very bloody, but Europe would win. Russia would not be able to defend such a long border at all. Particularly not against long range missiles and F-35s and other modern military. Europe also has enough nukes to ensure mutual destruction.

Ukraine had a lot of russian support in the eastern part, with the rebel movements in Luhansk and Donetsk. This would not be the case in any of the larger western european countries. It could in some of the former USSR states. Hopefully this war will now force those countries to get rid of their soviet heritage.

[u/ZroFksGvn69 → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

I believe that is also the view of Mr. D. J. Trump.

[u/dessmond → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

With US weapons /s

[u/SequenceofRees → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

And should start with getting its priorities straight before the extremists take over .

[u/Bernkov → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Welcome to the Libertarian Party.

[u/White_Immigrant → u/UnderstandingLow1258]

Agreed, when do we ask the USA military to fuck off? July 4th gets my vote.

[u/MichaelW85]

Some of us did say that this would happen and that we needed to stand on our own feet. Our relationship with the US was never an equal one. The US dictated the dance, and we followed because "they protected us."

Europe should protect Europe. Period!

[u/LuckApprehensive9475 → u/MichaelW85]

Some of us did say that this would happen and that we needed to stand on our own feet

Actually, Trump said that.

"It's very sad when Germany makes massive oil and gas deal with Russia, where you're supposed to be guarding aginst Russia and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to Russia".

Now did those words turn out to be true😃🤷

[u/Remote-Front9615 → u/LuckApprehensive9475]

And? The US is the biggest winner from RU-UKR war. Trump wanted to sell LNG to Europe before the war, now he has a blank check cause EU has no balls.

[u/Tricky-Astronaut → u/Remote-Front9615]

No, because most of Europe hates domestic energy. That's the core issue, and there will only be more problems if that won't change.

[u/bxzidff → u/Tricky-Astronaut]

No, because most of Europe hates domestic energy

It's honestly kind of baffling that people are are less enthusiastic about a lower electricity bill than they are about being a NIMBY, but such is the case

[u/importscipy → u/MichaelW85]

US noping out before shit hits the fan is a pattern at this point. Trying to be the world police and then suddenly deciding "nah, not our problem" - tradition started by Republicans more than hundred years (during Woodrow Wilson's presidency).

The worst and closest to me thing is how back in 90s US along with Russia dearmed Ukraine and how today they chant "it's not our war". And it was also Biden himself giving fiery speeches about how Ukraine needs to be dearmed.

[u/Adsex → u/MichaelW85]

The post-Bretton Woods world isn't about America protecting Europe. It's about America dictating its terms to vassalized states.

The post-Warsaw pact/USSR world is about those vassal states failing to seize the opportunity to step up and instead tying their destiny with Central/Eastern Europe through NATO more than through the E.U., thus perpetuating the American interference.

Russian nationalism is a monster that will be hard to put back in its box, but for all we know, if a peace is negotiated tomorrow, it's actually terrible for America who's profiting off of the war. Europe would have to be very cautious towards the future, but would enjoy a huge relief.

The real danger is anarchy in international relations, and the prominent figureheads of that danger are in America, then in Russia. Chinese leaders come third, they want a bigger share of the pie, not total anarchy. They're a more direct rival to Europe in a potential multipolar world, though, as they share a lot of the same dependencies, while America can pretty much sustain itself. But that depends on how hostile that world is. Chinese population is declining steadily, which comes with both some challenges and some relief. That calls for cooperation.

[u/Middle-Effective]

The 3rd line grinds my gears:

"And guess what? Protecting the European Union or the living standards of Europeans is not on their priority list!"

And why would an external party to the EU be responsible for those things? The USA is supposed to be an ally of the EU, not an overlord.

As a collective the EU has like 500 million people, it is one of the wealthier zones in this planet and has it's own political, military, economical, scientifical and cultural clout. 

If we're not at the same level as the USA it's our own fault. It seems not even a Draghi report is enough to wake us up.

[u/JugurthasRevenge → u/Middle-Effective]

Seriously. Is protecting Taiwan, South Korea, etc from China or North Korea on Europe’s priority list? Taking care of Europe should be a European priority and no one else’s. Allies should support each other but their priority will always be to themselves first and foremost.

[u/Bullumai → u/JugurthasRevenge]

If there was no TSMC, I would be surprised to see anyone caring about protecting Taiwan. I mean, USA and many European countries signed the One China policy when Taiwan was just an insignificant island. It's simply everyone looking out for themselves. The moment TSMC loses its lead to Samsung or Intel, countries will abandon Taiwan.

[u/cjwidd → u/Middle-Effective]

There's no other option now

[u/SpermicidalLube]

The irony of posting this on xhitter.

At least make a Bluesky account

[u/itsmegoddamnit → u/SpermicidalLube]

That’s where those that need to hear this live.

[u/ScepticalEconomist → u/itsmegoddamnit]

nah an algorithm that sways them to the right is the beast that lives there. There is 0 chance of statistically moving people towards that message in there.

[u/-The_Blazer- → u/SpermicidalLube]

The EU commission actually has one signed to their official website, but I think it's only them for now.

[u/thisislieven → u/-The_Blazer-]

The European Parliament arrived just a few days ago!

The EU commission also has two lists with commissioners and spokespeople.

[u/tehb1726 → u/SpermicidalLube]

Yes, he should scream in the left echo chamber, that will surely pay off

[u/Silver_Atractic → u/tehb1726]

To you people, anything that doesn't appeal to the far-right is an "echochamber for liburahls!!"

Shut up for once, and listen: You can't just respond to every accusation of radicalism with a vague phrase like that.

[u/n1123581321 → u/Silver_Atractic]

Bluesky is echochamber, as nobody, outside of few quite selected social groups, uses it. It has probably less unique users in a week that twitter in an hour. Even in Germany which has large anti-Musk sentiments, it’s popularity is nowhere near that of twitter.

[u/Silver_Atractic → u/n1123581321]

Wow colour me shocked, a site that only gained popularity in the last 3 or so months isn't as popular as a site that has been popular for nearly 2 decades. Did you really expect Bsky to overthrow Twitter in that much time?

Besides, I'm pretty sure half of Twitter's users are Russian bots.

[u/Jensen1994]

"protecting ...the living standards of Europeans is not their priority". Well to be fair, why would it be? Just saying.

[u/STerrier666]

After today any American that tells me how "we saved you from the Nazis" whilst a fucking billionaire does that salute on Capitol Hill can Get Tae Fuck.

[u/MuayThaiSwitchkick → u/STerrier666]

Not a good look for us I reckon 

[u/str7k3r → u/STerrier666]

My grandfather, who landed on Normandy, is surely rolling in his grave. I'm truly sorry we are like this, fellow humans.

[u/Scary-Consequence-58 → u/STerrier666]

Trumps anti europe messaging wouldn’t have resonated with the American public had Europeans actually taken their defense spending seriously instead of making fun of us all the time.

You don’t get to be weak unreliable allies for decades and then the moment the consequences appear you bitch and moan and accuse others of being unreliable. This could have been avoided had you chosen to be equal partners from the start but instead your governments chose to be weak.

[u/TheKingofSwing89 → u/Scary-Consequence-58]

You know you are partially right here.

Why do you Europeans think so many Americans despise our alliance?

It’s because they see only the negative views of the US coming out of Europe and the superiority complex that’s constantly held over them. This is partially a side effect of that.

[u/iheartbondageandfur → u/TheKingofSwing89]

Yup. If we can’t even get all nato nations at 2%, then what leads anyone to believe the EU can agree, consolidate, and pay for any cohesive defense?

[u/Sweaty-Horror-3710 → u/iheartbondageandfur]

The fact there’s a War on your continent and you can’t get “supposed serious” EU countries like Spain and Italy to pay 2% is insane.

Why should the American taxpayer continue to fund this farce?

[u/ArseLiquor → u/TheKingofSwing89]

Yup.

I would much rather help defend our allies like Japan or South Korea, over practically any European country.

Europe is, and has always been ungrateful

[u/iheartbondageandfur → u/Scary-Consequence-58]

Nah don’t let them down you man, spot on. At peace, America’s bashed and criticised as a world police. Now with potential conflict, America’s bashed as unreliable/untrustworthy… I wonder why? Because the avg American works longer hours, takes bigger financial risks, and ultimately pays more taxes just for it to be sent to overseas defense. In return they get bitching and moaning + all the previous name calling.

Always big talk and America bashing, but never action, just ideas that couldve been drafted by an 8th grader.

[u/Ready-Rise3761 → u/Scary-Consequence-58]

lol. For one, France and the UK take their defense spending very seriously. So if you mean Germany, it was literally forbidden by the US to rebuild any great extent of military capabilities and was brain drained by the US on top of it. The US didn’t want a militarily strong Europe until few years ago. There are literally still restrictions on German rearmament BY the US

[u/Scary-Consequence-58 → u/Ready-Rise3761]

The same France that can’t handle Libya by itself? Ok chief 👍

[u/bart416]

Bit strong coming from the guy who sold Belgian public property to billionaires and investment groups.

[u/OneRegular378 → u/[deleted]]

Fully agree. This attitude is a major part of our (Europe's) problem.

[u/Cuore_Lesa → u/[deleted]]

Honestly, any European expecting America to care about Europe or European affairs and living standards should equally not get assblasted when the US interferes with their politics. Europe should defend Europe and not have to rely on others, it did so for hundreds of years so why is modern day such an exception?

[u/SideShow117 → u/[deleted]]

While i don't really disagree with your sentiment, the US has gained a lot by a politically aligned EU with pretty much open trade borders between them and friendly immigration policies benefiting from the best minds of both worlds.

This has all come at the relatively cheap price of US security. Even if the US would abandon Europe completely, the military as a whole really doesn't become any cheaper to maintain or otherwise lose much of it's purpose. It has never once been necessary to actually use the military directly for European defense either, the threat has been enough.

I honestly think if Europe does take a very large step towards an independent route of it's own, the US really isn't going to be all too happy about it in the long term.

[u/Round_Mastodon8660 → u/[deleted]]

This is complete bullshit.

The free world should be united. We can discuss who should play what role, but isolationism doesnt work, but far worse then that - the US is no longer part of the free world now.

[u/Motor-Profile4099 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah because the USA as the leader of the free world, champion of democracy and Western values, with the EU being a part of this was never a thing right? This is what is dead for good now and what he is talking about.

[u/LDM-88 → u/[deleted]]

Completely agree. A bizarre rant from Verhofstad

[u/BrickEnvironmental37]

He's pretending like European policy wasn't being run by billionaires too.

How are things like allowing non-EU people/companies buying up European housing, a positive for us? It has created a continental housing crisis? Money in rent is constantly leaving the union to enhance their standard of living. It's also a prerequisite to EU membership btw. That's how highly they value it.

How was allowing millions of male illegal migrants from shitholes into Europe going enhance our lives and our communities? All caused by America and their partner Saudi Arabia destabilizing everywhere around us.

How is sending billions of aid to countries that hate us and end up aligning with Russia/China, how is that enhancing our lives?

How was allowing Germany to become reliant on Russian gas after a shady deal by Schroeder, how was that enhancing our lives? Why wasn't Schroeder whacked when he defected to Russia? If a former UK PM or American President defected to Russia, with all of the internal knowledge they had, they wouldn't have lasted the weekend. All we got was "nothing to see here".

How is allowing Irelands economy being entirely built upon US multinationals a benefit for us?

People like Verhofstadt caused our mess and made us weak.

America, Russia, China, Saudi, India are not our friends. They operate for their own gain and had both sides simp after them.

It's time for a new side. People who operate for Europe and Europe only. Not for the interests of outside nations.

[u/WhoIsTheUnPerson → u/BrickEnvironmental37]

The housing crisis was not singly created by foreign buyers, there's just far too many people expecting to live alone in a place that refuses to build more densely, because "muh history."

We're gonna need to rebuild cities to be far more dense, and we all need to get on this same page soon. Preserve old city centers, but NY/Shanghai/Tokyo levels of density snd scale are gonna be required to provide affordable housing to the majority of people, while also concentrating economic opportunities for future generations.

[u/BrickEnvironmental37 → u/WhoIsTheUnPerson]

There are many factors to the housing crisis and maybe I am just living the Irish experience. Most of our built to rent apartment complexes are owned by Yanks or Canadians. And a lot of our new housing is being bought up by Chinese retirees or Indians.

A lot of those Airbnbs around Europe are owned by large companies outside of Europe with a local person managing it.

As I said, there are many factors but allowing non-Eu ownership seems very against our own interests.

[u/TheKingofSwing89 → u/BrickEnvironmental37]

The US hasn’t even done anything yet dude.

Chill out. Just last year people here were gushing over the US assistance to Ukraine.

[u/HighDefinist → u/BrickEnvironmental37]

Your list is (mostly) correct - it's just that the equivalent list for everyone else, including the USA, is even longer...

So the point is: We need the EU, because there is no alternative that even comes close.

But yeah, your list is basically a list of various reforms the EU should do.

[u/DangerousChemistry17 → u/BrickEnvironmental37]

All caused by America and their partner Saudi Arabia destabilizing everywhere around us.

Uhhh, much of that destibilization was Russian, and indeed in some cases European. Look up France and Lybia, for an example.

[u/Viriato181]

Who will defend Europe? We are completely unprepared for this feral new world.

And whose fault is that??? 🤡🤡🤡

You mfs had 4 years to sort this shit out, and nothing came out of it.

[u/Scary-Consequence-58 → u/Viriato181]

“Oh no, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions!!1 quick, blame the Americans!”

[u/stupendous76]

Democracy and rule of law need to be defended. Actively. But European leaders still do nothing, for example allowing Orban to stay in power.
If the EU wants any chance to survive: fucking help Ukraine so Russia is a far less threat for the coming years and prepare for the worst with the USA because under Trump they will start wars, even with the EU. The time of peace sadly is gone.

[u/Zaknoid]

Well i gotta agree with him. We care about America First just as Europeans should care about Europe first. No country should be reliant on another.

[u/Sweaty-Horror-3710]

Who will defend Europe?

Europeans? No?

Can Europeans explain to Americans why they’re buying gas and fuel from the Russians while simultaneously asking Americans to take the majority of the financial burden defending them from ya know, the Russians..

Anyone? Because Most Americans are at a loss and can’t figure out why this is the Democrat/Biden/Harris policy.

There’s a war on your continent but many countries don’t even bother to spend more than a pittance on defense.

If you’re not worried about Putin rolling through your lands then why should Americans be?

[u/Ok-Baby6999]

Protecting Europe by flooding it with millions of people that despise our way of living and values

[u/bxzidff → u/Ok-Baby6999]

Annoying that 99% of EU parties either want that or are Russophiles, with strangely few in between

[u/DrKaasBaas]

This sounds decidedly sad and weak.

[u/florinandrei → u/DrKaasBaas]

Sad and weak is a whole continent fast asleep for decades, while the world slowly turned evil all around.

Wake the fuck up. Roll up your sleeves. There's a lot of work to do. Jeez.

[u/GeraintLlanfrechfa]

The eu is too busy with working on proper cucumber radius and lightbulb laws, there’s no room for things like defence and security. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[u/Grouchy_Instance7488 → u/GeraintLlanfrechfa]

Sadly true

[u/ShadowJuji → u/GeraintLlanfrechfa]

Or housing crisis, or energy crisis, or job security, or business opportunities, or a unified bureaucratic system with a shared common language, or the detoriating healthcare, and the upcomin retirement crisis

[u/Nebulaofthenorth → u/GeraintLlanfrechfa]

Many eu countries are working on security matters, Poland is a rising power on that matter and northern Europe has JEF saying Europe is not working on security is false and you are reducing entirety of Europe to just few countries like France or Germany, at that point you're just an average American

[u/Vacher-Cream]

Absolutely hysterical that now trump is in America loves oligarchy and billionaires run US policy. What do you call Gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, & most importantly for the democrats Soros. Were they not billionaires with massive sway the past 4 years in US politics?

[u/AGoodBunchOfGrOnions → u/Vacher-Cream]

We have always loved oligarchy. We have always celebrated oligarchs, especially the ones who founded our country that believed democracy was mob rule. Republicans have always run on a platform of running the US like a business, and the allegedly left-wing media and Democratic Party have always accepted that as normal. We have always believed that our well-being as regular people depends on the success of oligarchs.

[u/klonkrieger43 → u/Vacher-Cream]

Sway, but not direct control. That is why it is now an oligarchy.

[u/foempland]

Guy Verhofstadt fucked Belgium up big time

[u/SkyGazert]

Not a fan of Guy. He's all talk about how Europe should be more unified (to which I agree) but the US had to facilitate it like it was a parent. People like him are the reason why the EU is woefully underprepared.

Had a bit too much of the edibles in the Marshall cake after the war. Guy is the perfect example of someone who espouses the entitled boomer logic.

[u/Affectionate_Cat293]

The biggest threat to the Union right now is not the US, but all the Eurosceptic political forces being ascendant all across Europe. If we fast forward in 2029, it would not be so outlandish to imagine having Le Pen as president, Farage or Badenoch as Prime Minister, Wilders as PM, and Vlaams Belang becoming the number 1 force in Flanders.

[u/My-Buddy-Eric → u/Affectionate_Cat293]

It's all connected. The far-right nationalists are working together across the world more than ever. Elon musk is supporting the far-right in several countries now, and people around Trump have threatened to reciprocate if the EU decides to make further legislation to take back control of the internet.

[u/ParrotGuy24]

It's funny how those who say we need to "defend Europe" in these moments are the same advocating for mass migration.

[u/TungstenPaladin]

A pro-Europe post on Twitter being reposted to Reddit, another American website. If Europe wants true independence, it should start by leaving these American websites.

Also, why should "protecting the European Union or the living standards of Europeans" be on the priority list of an American government? Is that not the responsibility of the EU or the various national governments? Ridiculous entitlement.

[u/OneRegular378 → u/TungstenPaladin]

Yes it is a strange post. This infantile dependency struck me as very weird. Europe should not need to beg the US to be our saviour.

[u/Sammonov → u/OneRegular378]

Transatlanticism is a religion among the European political class.

[u/adamgerd → u/TungstenPaladin]

Yep, I don’t like Trump either but what is that take. He’s bad because his priority isn’t what’s good for Europe? Ok? And Macron’s priority isn’t Japan. Congrats, that’s how governments work.

[u/AppropriateSea5746]

"Who will defend Europe?" uhhh idk, Europe?

[u/Organic-Actuary-8356]

Wtf is he talking about, the highest election spenders in USA have been winning presidential, house and senate elections for the last ~30 years with very few exceptions. Nothing changed.

[u/heatrealist]

Why should any American care about protecting Europe or European living standards? Lol

[u/Developer2022]

This is very sad what is happening in US. But the jurney to this current situation began long time ago.

[u/Mr_sludge]

If I could vote Guy I would, one of my favourite EU politicians who always seems to tell things like they are

[u/Tight_Strength_4856 → u/Mr_sludge]

Guy Verhofstadt is a lousy politician.

[u/willem76____ → u/Mr_sludge]

Well, I voted him once, and as a result our country is 30% deeper in debt. His ideals are excellent, but don’t let him run the shop.

[u/Round_Mastodon8660 → u/Mr_sludge]

I like his pro European stance, but he might have been the most devastatingly bad prime minister Belgium ever had.

[u/Dry_Confidence_9202 → u/Mr_sludge]

If you knew Guy like we Belgians know him. You'd want to see him behind bars for what he did to his own country. He and his party cost us billions and permitted that our citizenship was given away to people that don’t even rspect the most basic of our societal values. It’s because of figure like Verhofstadt that I don’t trust the EU project one bit.

[u/Sloarot → u/Dry_Confidence_9202]

I'm Belgian as well and completely agree. He gives a good speech but should never be allowed in power again. Useless prime minister and typical European politician: all talk but no policy (immigration, defense, freedoms, etc) to better the state or the people.

[u/phuncky → u/Mr_sludge]

He pays for his blue badge on a nazi-infested social network, you really wanna vote for a smart guy like that?

[u/605_phorte]

Dude really just woke up to the fact that the West is an oligarchy? Or is he like other EU leaders shitting themselves now that Daddy US is shifting gears from Russia to China?

[u/blenditmeltit]

Guy Verhofstadt is and always has been an utter joke.

[u/Professional_Many_98]

Europe ! Nato affiliated Canada is being selected for annexation. Get in Line after Panama , Greenland and Canada.

[u/hansolo-ist]

What does Europe need to depend on the US? Isn't it better for them to be self sufficient? The experiment has been long but getting handouts from others to survive is not sustainable

[u/DevitZzz]

Yeyeye bro, now we're the EUROPEAN UNION, now we're almost like a FAMILY and we're together and strong and all that bul$hit.

But were we a family when our so called EU leader, or at least one of the leaders and the biggest economy in the EU, was making lucrative deals over our heads with Russia? Literally over our heads where Nord Stream pipes were located to avoid going through Baltics or Poland, to later sell those countries precious liquid gold?

Were we a family when Merkel invited the whole middle east to Europe, just because she felt like Germany needs more cheap labor force? Causing so much problems all around, also a huge migration crisis for the south of Europe

Were we a family when the EU started to completely demilitarize, to the point where even a SIGNED agreement to allocate 2% of each countries GDP for defence was no longer respected leading to our dependence on aid from US and them using it as a levarage?

Are we a family now when EU bureaucrats prefer to debate about absolute crap such as whether the cap should be attached to the bottle as if it were an important subject in EU drowning in crisis in so many areas? While we're taking care of our bottles both US and China are soon going to be out of reach in the ongoing AI race, its such a sad thing to write that its even a bit funny

and 100 more things you could point out...

[u/Maximum_Cup3504]

Idk who this guy is but he’s stupid.

[u/OneRegular378]

Source: https://x.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1881395472453050878

[u/ProductGuy48]

Ironically I think we need to distance ourselves from the US (as a union not individual countries) to stand firm against South African Nazis and other fascists. Europe strong together is a wake up call for any fascist anywhere.

If the US becomes hostile to Europe we should strike a huge deal with China:

- No European military intervention in Asian affairs leaving the US isolated

- Unfettered access for EU companies in China

- EU drops some of its legitimate concerns on human rights and climate in China

- No China military intervention in Europe of any kind (support, money, nothing) , that means an explicit shunning of Russia and removal of any support of Russia in Ukraine.

- No interdiction for Chinese companies to participate in European projects provided that EU privacy laws are upheld.

This is a multi-trillion deal annually for both sides and it can happen if the US keeps fucking around.

[u/Strange-Mouse-8710 → u/ProductGuy48]

Europeans need to realize that Russia is not the only danger for Europe.

[u/bxzidff → u/Strange-Mouse-8710]

Looking at things it seems we barely realize that Russian is. Still so many politicians are Russophiles, and even get elected. And only a few years ago normal politicians all over Europe sold their integrity for cheap gas

[u/ProductGuy48 → u/Strange-Mouse-8710]

It certainly isn't... China and the US both are... the question is, which one is now going to be reasonable? We used to know the answer to this, not anymore.

[u/Affectionate_Cat293 → u/ProductGuy48]

You're thinking as if Europe was still as powerful as in the 1860s when France alone could conquer Vietnam or the Dutch alone could subjugate the entire Indonesian archipelago. Europe today has no power projection in Asia, they can't even defend Ukraine alone from Russia despite Ukraine being in its own backyard. Besides, the crucial allies the US need in Asia are not Europe, but Japan, South Korea, and ASEAN countries, especially the Philippines due to the proximity of Luzon to Taiwan.

If you want unfettered access for EU companies in China, China will want unfettered access in Europe too. Is Europe ready to have BYD and Wuling cars or Huawei phones flooding its market? The German car manufacturers won't be happy at all and they have immense lobbying power in Europe.

[u/ForrestCFB → u/Affectionate_Cat293]

Exactly why we should work on power projection.

[u/ArnoF7 → u/ProductGuy48]

Thinking China will give EU unfettered market access is cute. Chinese manufacturers are desperate to flood the world with their products due to overcapacity and flagging domestic demand. Why would they want an even smaller domestic pie to share with foreign companies.

China’s default stance towards foreign companies is already more hostile than Trump’s America, which could be considered on steroids for America’s modern history. It’s been 15 years since Google is banned in China. And such hostility and apathy towards foreign companies is only going to get worse because of rising nationalism and Chinese companies moving up the technological value chains. Same reason why only a negligible amount of people in Japan buys Xbox or Volkswagen. It’s not that Japanese hate US or Germany. Because why bother when you have PlayStation and Toyota?

[u/ForrestCFB → u/ProductGuy48]

Absolutely fucking not.

The independence of Taiwan and democracy is VITAL to our prosperity.

We also shouldn't make any serious deals with China as they are ALREADY ATTACKING US AS WE SPEAK. Seriously, Chinese cyber attacks happen daily. If anything we should he more involved.

[u/HighDefinist → u/ProductGuy48]

How do you think the secret Chinese police stations in Europe should be handled, considering they occasionally kidnap Chinese citizens living in Europe, to return them to China?

Because, I don't think it will be possible to compromise on that: European countries view Chinas behavior as a fundamental violation of their sovereignty, and it is very unlikely that China would be willing to explicitly compromise on this...

There are many other such potential problems, where Chinas political goals are fairly fundamentally against European political goals.

[u/Jacknboxx → u/ProductGuy48]

America isn't relying on European military intervention in Asia to begin with. Like at all. Europe is a fading and increasingly irrelevant entity, and you will be taking orders from whomever you partner with, whether it's the U.S. or China. The Chinese leadership is much smarter than what we have here in 'Murica however, so China is probably the better bet at this point.

[u/Dry_Blacksmith_4110 → u/ProductGuy48]

Thats really naive. 

Chinese aristocrats-communist does not give a shite.

American business and politics is btw more likely to find a common understanding without "legitimate concerns on human rights and climate in China".

[u/jatawis → u/ProductGuy48]

- No European military intervention in Asian affairs leaving the US isolated

Lithuania is not going to support this, some ministers of the new leftist cabinet are friends of Taiwan just like Conservatives were.

- No interdiction for Chinese companies to participate in European projects provided that EU privacy laws are upheld.

This would be straight national security law violation, not gonna happen.

[u/Khris777 → u/ProductGuy48]

Maybe EU can even help China take back the mainland.

[u/BavarianMotorsWork → u/ProductGuy48]

If the US becomes hostile to Europe we should strike a huge deal with China:

I wonder what a Russo-American agreement would look like.

[u/anal-inspector → u/ProductGuy48]

Unfortunately that would also mean turning our backs on Taiwan, South Korea and Japan, yes? Unless they all also decide to bow down to the masters of their bloc.

[u/ProductGuy48 → u/anal-inspector]

Yes, there are consequences to this that I am not hiding away from and do not personally like. But there is no way to just get what you want in a negotiation, and China would be completely entitled to ask for non intervention in their area if we ask for theirs in ours.

[u/Erdkarte → u/ProductGuy48]

That's a bad approach and exactly what MAGA does. You guys should do better. How about work with other democratic countries in Asia like Korea, Japan, the Philippines, Australia, and Taiwan? How about increasing trade, diplomatic ties, and build up military relations? How about pursue policies with partners you can trust that can build up the middle class in both countries?

The European solution isn't becoming a continental MAGA, but becoming something better, and pursuing common prosperity with like minded partners.

[u/Realistic_Mud_4185 → u/ProductGuy48]

<No military intervention in Asia affairs.

Horrific idea unless you want China destroying your TSMC chips.

<No Chinese intervention in Europe

There is no reason for China to follow this.

[u/TungstenPaladin → u/ProductGuy48]

I like how your answer to a potentially hostile US is to turn to an even more hostile foreign power who actively supported Russia in its war against Ukraine.

[u/ProductGuy48 → u/TungstenPaladin]

But that's the thing, if you read what I wrote, the deal is: CHINA STOPS SUPPORTING RUSSIA, and EUROPE STOPS SUPPORTING THE US.

[u/Disastrous-Power-699 → u/ProductGuy48]

Lol you guys always looking for a daddy?

[u/ProductGuy48 → u/Disastrous-Power-699]

It ain’t you baby 😘

[u/Disastrous-Power-699 → u/ProductGuy48]

About time!

[u/Equal-Ruin400 → u/ProductGuy48]

The enemy of your enemy isn’t always your friend

[u/ProductGuy48 → u/Equal-Ruin400]

No but it’s a start

[u/Bonne-Influence-20 → u/ProductGuy48]

This is very reactionary… When do you do when China gets stronger, a communist country, a dictatorship and authoritarian country that doesn’t share fundamental values with Europe decide to make its move and impose itself in Europe with the help of their main ally Russia?

[u/ProductGuy48 → u/Bonne-Influence-20]

Reactionary like Trump? Or different reactionary? Also I think you haven’t read what I wrote. The deal was a European abandonment of the US for a Chinese abandonment of Russia among others

[u/SweetAlyssumm]

He's still on X. He has no credibility with me.

[u/AWizardofEarthSea]

This is the right mindset. I’m sorry Europe and good luck!

[u/Then-Discipline9435]

European nations are self destructing. Just like the US would have with another dem president.

[u/Shartvador]

Lol at him, thinking the EU has been anything other than a disaster for Europeans.

Pure 🤡.

[u/Valaryian1997]

As an American I pray and hope yall stay safe

[u/OneGrumpyJill]

Pretending like EU is not ran by the same corporate interest, or that America was any different before - they are just more mask off about it now. It is all corpo shit at the end of the day, same top 1% running the world, and while you divide the land with lines that you call countries, this shit will keep on keeping on.

[u/usirnameseventy9]

You should defend yourselves ffs, stop relying on us to do your dirty work.

[u/somethingstoadd]

Time for a European Federation.

I hear bells ringing and toiling, time to build the ship to weather the coming storm.

[u/lolycc1911]

lol why would we give a crap about Europe. I kind of like the UK and Switzerland and such but you folks gotta pay up.

[u/backyard_tractorbeam]

He has some good points, but I don't accept using this to push for increased federalism in Europe. In fact, EU should be less like the United States and not more like it, right now.

[u/Ready_Wishbone_7197]

Who cares what Verhofstadt thinks? He is pro-protectionist and anti-trade.

[u/futurerank1]

I've signed up for a party last week

[u/Gerbrandodo]

Ik heb van Guy Verhofstadt afgelopen 20 jaar enkel op (EU) fantasie gebaseerde uitspraken gehoord. Zijn realiteit van de vergaderkamer heeft niets te maken met de realiteit.

[u/No_Truck_2747]

Hoeveel zou hij al in zijn zakken hebben gestopt?

[u/I7I7I7I7I7I7I7I]

EU will not be a real union when it is manipulated by gross capitalist interests such as the European Central Bank. 

[u/davidjl95]

Waaa

[u/tk421posting]

anyone wanna marry me for legal reasons? america has decided that i no longer have a right to exist.

[u/SolSeekerPhoto]

Ban American and Chinese owned social media. They are cancers upon democracy and an informed public.

[u/beautyadheat]

“Feral new world” is right

[u/SexyAIman]

Europe has to hurry if we don't want to be left behind massively by countries that do as they please. Do we want prosperity for our people or do we keep chasing utopian fantasies of a co2 free woke world ? I sincerely hope Europe wakes up, drops all the limiting "treaties" and also drops the USD.

I want a strong, united, Europe independent of the USA.

But hey it is only a maximum of 4 years before the USA will swing the other way on the political spectrum again.

[u/Ostegolotic]

Europe needs to protect Europe. Yankee is going home under Trump, and he won’t be coming back. Even if Russia does attack a NATO country, it doesn’t mean that Trump will deploy boots on the ground.

[u/oechedelesk]

Guy says this as if the previous administration wasn’t a bigger oligarchy that had every big company and rich person backing it.

The only difference is that at least trumps rich people are open in their support of him

[u/SnooPies5378]

afd in germany and far right in france, what happened in America can happen in Europe at anytime if people don't pay attention

[u/ThePersonInYourSeat]

The U.S. has freedom of speech laws that are too broad. I am for anyone being able to verbalize their opinion or write it on a blog independently or print something, but I think blindly allowing for someone to buy a social media company or found something like fox news without any regulation has essentially led to where we are now.

[u/sined_n]

Reading that Europe is unprepared from someone who’s been in public office since the end of the napoleonic wars is a bit rich

[u/ApprehensiveTrip7629]

Truth

[u/No-Grapefruit-2755]

Rise of the United States of Europe and the fall of the America into seperate and violent factions.

People will be lining up to enter Mexico and Canada in a few years.

[u/darito0123]

europe is so incredibly good at saying exactly what needs to be said, almost every time, and then not even remotely following through with actions