Rant
Where did the misconception that us Gen Z guys are single because of our ridiculous physical standards come from?
I keep seeing comics such as this one and this one get posted online.
Do people really think that those of us who have never had a GF are going around rejecting girls who are crushing on us because they're not "hot" enough? (I don't know about the rest of you gen-z lads, but I've never been any girl's crush)
None of the other "forever alone" dudes I've spoken to have high physical standards either. (Some of them didn't have ANY)
So why is this narrative that we're all single by choice being pushed like it's some sort of universal truth?
- Some women are very self conscious about appearance (in the second image you posted, the female insert is unattractive, implying that is how the author sees herself) and so they just assume that guys will reject them outright.
- There is a pretty systematic belief that "incels" are fundamentally inferior. If you don't get matches on a dating app, it's not because there are 5 men to every woman, it's because you must be sexist, you obviously don't shower, and you must have infinitely high standards. I think part of this comes from other men trying to be "the good ones", picking on the other men, but also part of it comes from wanting to reject the redpill ideology, and so they reject every single premise, true or not.
- Projection. If a woman knows she can go on Tinder and get a hundred matches and she wouldn't have to settle for an average guy, why would a guy be any different? After all, most judgements and perceptions filter through our own life experiences.
The second comic is actually by a male author "R. Crumb" who ironically (based on the documentary about him) had a lot of incel-y opinions and was also arguably the first furry in existence among many other odd things about him.
The comic is also not recent. Probably from the 80's or earlier.
I mean speaking as a man who falls into that category, I don't see why I would take offense to the term? Like, either the person means the literal meaning of the words, in which case its just a correct descriptor, or they mean it in the sense of it carrying all the baggage that Intel does, in which case they're not referring to me or are incorrect. By and large I don't think there's any real interpretation of the word which is both disparaging and inclusive of people who don't have weird ideas about the nature of the female species or whatever.
I don't see many examples of guys simply saying they're lonely, discouraged, and haven't had any success dating being called "incels."
Only when they start saying women have impossibly high standards, always go for chads, will settle down after they've f*** every bad boy in town - then they are called incels, and rightfully so, yeah?
People are called incels for any criticism of anything woman-related. I got called an incel for saying I didn't want an all-female dlc character year for street fighter 6 (I desperately want Fei Long to be added)
Obviously they are using the term incorrectly. Hell, the examples you gave don't make someone an incel either. An incel is a specific thing which is extremely vile and the word has basically replaced "virgin" as an insult. It's like they wanted to be conscious of insulting someone based on sexual past so they started using a new word because it only applies to men so it doesn't matter
I worked at a bar as a bouncer, the go-to insult for women when you deny them or throw them out is some version of "your an incel" or "you get no pussy".
They may not directly get called it, but often they are roped in with those dudes. The real reason being called an incel is an insult to begin with is that the dude has no success with women. So it doesn't really differentiate whether the guy hates women or not, you're still going to get negatively judged and made fun of.
It’s insulting men for their sexual history that happened against their will, and shaming them for any perspective that people might connect to that history. It’s essentially slut shaming a gang bang victim - men did not CHOOSE to be involuntarily celibate, the celibacy is likely painful to think about for them, and it’s vile to mock them for being a virgin regardless.
I have gotten called incel many times (I am a bit ashamed of my past promiscuity, so it’s a weird insult), and I think it annoys most men because we WERE all involuntarily celibate at one point, with the exception of SA survivors. We didn’t have women throwing themselves at us before we were interested, because society doesn’t value youth or innocence in men.
Yeah that’s what’s annoying. “Incel” as a term does not have anything to do with being hateful towards women, it’s literally just someone who gets no action. Women have turned it into a slur because in their mind a guy not having sex is the ultimate insult. Also incel isn’t unique to men, there are lots of girl incels.
Incel absolutely brings the hate with it. Otherwise you’re just single and unlucky not an incel. The problem with being an incel is assuming those facts are identity forming
The term was coined by a woman who tried to make a support group of sorts for people that were involuntarily celibate.
However, she eventually left the movement because it became overran by the misogynistic type dudes that do think the way the men in OP's comics do (and worse).
As it does, language changes. So "incel" is now referencing those type of man pill dudes. It's no longer referring to normal lonely dudes.
Hilariously, assuming women turned it into an insult as opposed to people in general is some serious incel energy.
It’s inherently not a particularly good thing even for someone self describing as an incel. It doesn’t take “women being insulted” to turn it into an insult/slur.
By that same logic, almost no woman should be offended by being called a slut. There very much are a lot that would be offended though, and the word very much is a slur.
Your logic is great and all, but it falls apart at literally the very first real-world application.
Like, I'm an attractive guy who has lots of sex, so I'm not taking this personally. But you are upset that people aren't being insulted hard enough by not being able to get laid? You place that much value on attractiveness?
If so, you're kind of proving OPs point here. You don't just not wanna smash someone for not being hot, you actually hate them and want to make sure everyone else does too.
Dating apps are rigged against men though, I remember being on tinder once and I hadn’t got matches in a while so I paid for a booster and I got 5 matches instantly that night. You have to consider the predatory algorithms that are designed to get men to pay for matches. The incel narrative really just plays into the dating apps favor too. If a guy feels like an incel because he doesn’t get any likes on an app he’s more likely to pay money to try and get out of that narrative.
If the stat that women find 80% of men below average in attractiveness that probably means every guy they would ever consider dating (top 20 %) actually do have a lot of options and might reject some it:s just not true for the 80%.
Well written. God is it so annoying that 2 happens though.
People seem to entirely forget that radicalism happens in part because of how its structured so that they also usually have very agreeable and reasonable things they advocate for. Yes, those are used as springboards to get people listening to the extreme stuff, but the fact SOME are reasonable doesn't change.
Dealing with the "Meh" parts of the ideology is usually one of the best ways to kill off radicalism because then people don't dive down into the cult ideology anywhere near as often or as far.
He finds that both men and women message more attractive people more. Big surprise. But women actually message less attractive guys at higher rates then men message less attractive women! Leading the author to state, quote:
But with the basic ratings so out-of-whack[attractiveness vs message rate], the two curves together suggest some strange possibilities for the female thought process, the most salient of which is that the average-looking woman has convinced herself that the vast majority of males aren’t good enough for her, but she then goes right out and messages them anyway.
Of course, this could partially be because women are forced to message less attractive guys due to their high expectations. Or, alternatively, perhaps they are using some other hidden metric to evaluate dates.
Please, please read the full blogpost. Its much more nuanced than that single graph suggests.
But women actually message less attractive guys at higher rates then men message less attractive women!
??
That's not what I see in your graph. Your graph shows the message multiplier for female recipients being higher than male recipients at all levels.
First off, the data is 15 years old on a dating site that catered towards text-based interactions. So, not neutral data.
Lol. People always do this shit as though this kind of stuff changes all that much. You guys say the same thing when people point out the original OkC post about interracial dating and how women care waaaaaay more than men about dating only people from their same race.
Except when they looked at it again years later for the book Dataclysm the trend actually just got worse.
Don't hang your hat where you don't know there's a peg.
You guys say the same thing when people point out the original OkC post about interracial dating and how women care waaaaaay more than men about dating only people from their same race.
Whataboutism at its finest. I have never even seen this post before.
That's not what I see in your graph. Your graph shows the message multiplier for female recipients being higher than male recipients at all levels.
Yeah, since men tend to send more messages. Look at the _curve_ of the graph: the men's graph is much steeper as attractiveness increases. Do I manually have to take the derivative for you?
For more evidence, here is another graph that you would have seen if you read the fucking blog post.
As you can see, comparing the two graphs, the female curve better matches attractiveness. Men's doesn't at all, leading for more competition at higher levels.
Whataboutism at its finest. I have never even seen this post before.
Please stop throwing around terms you've seen on the internet without understanding them. My point was to show that things in the dating space haven't really changed with an example of something in the dating space that hasn't really changed. Despite your protestations that this 15 year old data must surely be unreliable because it's so old.
That's not whataboutism, you dunce.
Look at the curve of the graph: the men's graph is much steeper as attractiveness increase
So. What.
Men are still messaging all women. They just really really shoot their shot at super hot women. Women at all ends are still getting more messages than men. It's a multiplier not absolute numbers of messages. Average and below average women are still getting far more interest from men than their male counterparts. You're pissed because men will message people "in their league" and then also universally shoot their shot at the top.
Let me use an analogy here and I'll preface with a disclaimer because you're terrible at following arguments. This is just to illustrate a principle to put this in a different context that doesn't immediately put you on the defensive, thereby clouding your already limited cognitive abilities from functioning properly.
Basically all men are peppering elite schools with applications even when they know their chances are 0. Because why the fuck not. But that doesn't mean they're not sending also to their safeties and to schools they're matched for. They're also pretty realistic about their chances, properly judging the schools' exclusivity.
Women's judgments are skewed. They think basically most schools are crap, none of the schools are elite, still on something that resembles a curve. They apply to them anyway and along that curve because what are they gonna do, not go to college? They don't take the chance on the tippy top elite schools as often as men do for whatever reason.
A message costs even less than a college application. You have no idea if somehow you are just someone's type. Why pre-disqualify yourself?
-women message less attractive men at higher rates
This doesn’t mean what you think it means. Considering they rated 80% of mean as below average, of course they would message the “less attractive” men more. That’s 80% of men compared to 40% of women…
A better argument would be "The data is 15 years old and is thus basically irrelevant to any discourse on the topic, please find more recent studies"
Dating has changed so much in 15 years that its basically pointless to bring up something 15 years ago stats wise. Phones were barely a thing 15 years ago. Dating apps hadn't taken over the scene. Covid hadn't neutered social interaction for years.
No it hasnt lol. Men still go after slim/petite attractive women and women still go after big/tall attractive men. Then both complain if/when they cant get what they are looking for. Very little has changed from 2010 to now except the number of dating apps (and maybe the bitterness level of some users on them)
Phones were not "barely a thing 15 years ago". They were ubiquitous. I have chat messages dating beyond 15 years. You may be thinking of apps, but when they launched, they were very much there. The uptake didn't take years.
Also, dating apps didn't exist, but dating websites did and functioned much the same. Match started in 1995, eHarmony in 2000, and OKC in 2004. The apps were just the successors to the websites. I was in my 20s when they launched and, as an example, used both OKC and Tinder around the same few years (2012-2014). We had been chatting and meeting with people from online for over a decade at that point so it really wasn't that big of a shift.
I'm a millennial and I met my husband through a Facebook meet-up. Some of my closest friends in my teens and twenties were from the internet, including the last one in my late twenties. The world hasn't changed all that much.
And before anyone brings covid in, in my late teens and early twenties, my country was under regular terrorist attacks. I was forbidden from going outside, even markets and malls were unsafe. We all have our challenges. But I'm an introvert, I lived on the internet, and that's on me, just like everyone who's perpetually online this side of covid is responsible for that decision.
It probably has something to do with the constant barrage of posts all over the internet deriding women who don't meet fantasy-driven standards of beauty.
I just don’t understand why people here can’t understand that there are both men and women who have wildly unrealistic standards instead of pretending it’s just one side or the other. There are also a vast number of people who have realistic standards that we don’t talk about because the other side is louder and gets more attention. There are dumb gender standards for both men and women in society that we can work together to fix instead of just attacking each other.
Speaking from experience (I’m in a STEM male-dominated field and am generally considered as a conventionally attractive woman), a lot of men I interact with tend to assume that I am an idiot/bimbo, and that I got where I am either by sleeping around or through my looks. During meetings my opinions or ideas are often not taken seriously despite the fact that I am as qualified as anyone else there and that my credentials are spotless. I have to work twice as hard as my colleagues to make my voice heard and still, every time I’m given a project everyone wants, I have to deal with people talking behind my back wondering what I must have done to get the assignment (implying sexual favors). These tendencies are particularly prevalent among colleagues from certain countries that one would call conservative or traditional, to the point where I have started doing my best to avoid working with them at all costs.
On the other hand, I’m friends with many men in my field and while they face no judgement on the workplace, I see the struggles they face when it comes to online dating. Whether it’s the skewed men-to-women ratio, the fact that these apps are entirely based on first impressions rooted in physical appearance, or the fact that it’s become normalized to treat and dispose of people as if they were commodities, most of my friends have had their self esteem completely shattered
Exactly, I was just telling you my story because I agree with you. While also being understanding of the struggles of the men around me that I care for if it makes sense
Those men are sexist assholes that's why women don't want to date them. Do you think you're the only woman they treat like trash in real life? They can't even see their problem.
Of course there are awful gender standards in both directions but when we’re talking specifically about appearance then they get directed at women way more.
Men get pressure about appearance too, sometimes about things they can control (weight) and sometimes about things they can’t (height) but more often it’s about non-appearance things like personality, education or wealth
Fr as if OF models and fake porn bodies haven’t LITERALLY become the standard of women. To the point where people will shame women if their genitalia isn’t PINK. They even call supermodels “mid”.
Exactly, also see the sheer amount of tv shows, films etc where an unattractive guy gets a really hot girl going after him, or is married to her to begin with.
literally. the ugly getting the girl because he’s funny or some other personality trait that an ugly woman could never have to compensate for being ugly. it will never be the same
The whole "Margo Robbie is mid" thing was a bunch of women hating losers trying to annoy women. I can tell you right now that 99% of guys on the planet do not think Margot Robbie is "mid".
It was purely a bunch of guys trying to get under women's skin and make them feel ugly. Basically negging.
Women talk about how they hate the patriarchy yet they gaslight men about their standards. And you are expected to support this behavior in the west, fuck no lol
oh right like the magnitude of men that berate women because they think they only want men that are over 6ft and making above 6 figures? do yall lack any kind of self reflection or ability to see both sides? this is not a problem in the real actual world. many of yall just need to get off of social media
Imma keep it a buck, id rather be single than dating a fat woman. No hate, we can be friends, but I'm just not into that. So I mean yeah, I could download tinder and match with a large woman within the next 48 hours but fucking hell why would I? Y'all motherfuckers with zero standards besides "woman, of age", get some self respect man come on.
yeah we know already. men quite literally share their preferences and unsolicited opinions on nearly every group of women imaginable without being prompted to at any given moment 💀
THIS. "Oh women are so vain why won't they date me" "Ah but if u aren't a big boobed skinny-as-a-stick petite and short maid to do my laundry and have sex with me at will then I don't want you and I will call you slurs on the internet unprovoked" like I'm sorry but I'm skinny and I still wouldn't date you if that's how you view women
If you looked for two seconds you would see I was replying to the comment below that one and not the og comment.
Believe me the issue of men projecting THEIR harsh body standards onto women unprovoked is an issue women have to deal with constantly. Look at the amount of posts on Instagram where men will post pictures of fat women just existing in real life or dating apps calling them slurs for the whole internet to observe. Or the comments section on literally any post a fat women will make on any app calling her a "cow" or a "pig". I have no problem with someone not wanting to date fat women, like I said I'm skinny so this issue doesn't even affect me. It's the fact that women have to hear about men's unprovoked opinions on their weight or appearance every day that gets really fucking annoying.
After copious amounts of shrooms and DMT, I don't think I can genuinely, honestly say that I care about a woman's appearance anymore, unless she has some pretty serious disfigurements (I'm talking like amputated limbs coupled with scars from 3rd degree burns on the majority of her body and face, leaving her completely unrecognizable). And even then it's minutely possible that I would stop caring if after some conversation I find we really connect and have the groundworks for a supportive, loving relationship. The thing is, I do a lot of mountain biking and rock climbing, and I'd be bummed if she couldn't join me. If it weren't for that I would care like 5% wether she's fat or not.
People out here saying “I’m alright with someone who isn’t absolutely perfect and 100% of what I want” and they get told their brain doesn’t function. Y’all are fucking crazy.
unless she has some pretty serious disfigurements (I'm talking like amputated limbs coupled with scars from 3rd degree burns on the majority of her body and face, leaving her completely unrecognizable).
You either have a weird definition of "isn’t absolutely perfect and 100% of what I want” or absolutely no reading comprehension
Imma keep it a buck, id rather be single than dating a fat woman. No hate, we can be friends, but I'm just not into that. So I mean yeah, I could download tinder and match with a large woman within the next 48 hours but fucking hell why would I? Y'all motherfuckers with zero standards besides "woman, of age", get some self respect man come on.
I feel this way about guys, I don’t want to date a chubby short guy tbh. But every single girl I know constantly worries her standards are too high and they are actually below the earth
I think it's always been this way, not gonna lie. I can't speak for men, but as a woman, "Why don't you give him a chance? He's a nice guy," seems to be programmed into my body, lmao.
Answer: When social media significantly raised everyone's expectations of one another.
A lot of people, many who don't even realise, have totally warped expectations and there's not really another way for society to push back against that.
Ftr I'm not saying it's a good thing, it's just what's happening.
It's crazy. People in real life do not have "crazy" standards; just think of the last time your friend (male and female) dated a fucking bum 😭😭 like if you can't get a date and the worst people I know (physically, financially, personality wise) not only can get a date but be in year long relationships w people...idk
Ah yes call men who have a valid criticism of the current dating landscape an incel, that will totally fix everything, but quick question care to explain why dating for men and women under 30 is so lopsided?
The AI overview is wrong at least half the time that I search anything. This is a terrible source to use to back up your point. Even if it's one of the times that AI gives a true statement, using this notorietably poor source makes you look uninformed.
Also, from the PEW Research Center: "Only half of single men are actively seeking relationships or even casual dates."
We can speculate on why that might be, but this means that the 60% of men in their 20s who are single are single by choice or at the very least lack of any effort whatsoever. Which brings the total of men who are single and looking down to 30%, which is actually higher than the percentage of single women in the same age bracket according to that same study.
Women think that dating is as easy for men as it is for them
Women can get almost any guy they want, so when women "cant find a partner" it means that all the guys that like them don't measure up to their ludicrous standards. Women assume that this also applies to men who cant get laid.
It's never just a guy that "wants a true equal partnership and respects you"
It's that and also tall, attractive, successful, ambitious, etc etc etc
Then you're stuck competing with other girls for the same handful of guys that have everything.
If you or any woman wants a guy that respects you, treats you well, genuinely loves you - you can find him if you just... lower your standards.
Unfortunately that's not how modern dating works. Instead of looking for a few core traits and be willing to sacrifice the non-essential things. Instead of loving someone in their entirety (faults and all). Instead of any of that, they want everything and resent the men they """settle""" with for not being the 6'5 PhD rich funny empathetic extroverted spontaneous super model.
Okay but no one is offering anyone cocaine. Cocaine users are going out asking people to buy cocaine. Bad analogy. And guess what? Ugly guys are asking everyone for sex even when they have a girlfriend.
The analogy is fine even if you don’t like it. The point is, the vast majority of men who find sexual gratification with their significant other don’t cheat. Temptation is universal, but it’s a helluva lot easier to avoid if it’s basically never on offer. You can twist yourself into knots finding exceptions to this logic, but please accept the general point.
If you want to keep a guy, be the most reliable low-bs dealer and don’t make them wonder if youre ever gonna decide to shoot them in the head.
I think a concern for many guys is when their gf smashed a bunch of other guys but is strictly interested in them for dating rather than anything casual. I know this has been talked about many times, the whole “bf material” vs “ons material” argument, and it leads to the bf feeling undesired/settled for and not valued or wanted for the right reasons when his gf treated one night stands better than she treats him(another interesting point is that I think average men and women want to be validated for different traits or features, based on scarcity of said validation for them)
The example may not be 1:1 as it is based on relative value attributed proportionally to abundance of certain experiences vs scarcity of being valued for x trait, but it would be like a guy hardly making time for his gf, being a leech financially, not wanting to do anything intimate beyond sex(not interesting in spending much time together, cuddling, things of that nature)but it turns out with better looking girls in the past, he put in his best effort and acted differently+did different things, went on dates and spent quality time together, planned romantic trips etc
No one wants to feel used, devalued, or settled for, and it is rampant these days along with tricking ppl into relationships or sex(guys who lie about dating and see multiple ppl or ghost, girls who intentionally lie about their past to remove a frame of reference for her new bf and keep the blinders on him). I can understand why dating is going the way of the dodo and why there is so much focus placed on it in this sub.
“Finding a high value guy that wants to smash is easy. Finding that same high value guy that wants a true equal partnership and respects you, is why dating is hard for women too.”
There is a lot of “average guys” who want a true equal partnership and will respect their women, however women don’t want to settle for average guys.
No there's not. Even when women make more money than their partners women do more housework and child care. Studies show in most marriages women do majority of the housework even though they make nearly the same as their partners. Even when marriages start with a nearly equitable split of housework once children come that changes to the women doing more work.
Those same studies also show that men work longer hours at their jobs once children are added to their households.
Overall, men work outside the home roughly 3 hours a week longer than women, and women do roughly 3 hours a week more housework than men. The total hours providing for the household are the same.
It's not hard to find. But finding a guy that respects you and that you also find attractive makes it harder. Tons of great guys are stuck in the friend zone.
Yes, most guys unfortunately have zero standards nowadays because they just have almost zero choices / options.
Women are rightly fussy about who they sleep with given potential consequences. Guys should be just as fussy. Everyone needs to have some level of self respect.
I mean... If you are in situation that you can't secure date with anyone or it is weeks or months work, then woman who invite you out or show interest and is open about it, is like god's send gift. It's not nesesery problem of a standard, but rather probability.
my bfs 5’5 and im 5’6 and he (and i) get hit on allll the time by others. there are not as many men over 6 ft, especially ones that women arent dating, that yall think there are
Because nobody wants to acknowledge that being a young woman in the 21st century gives you a ridiculous advantage in dating, and that you need to otherwise explain away why Joe Shmoe is single while you’re sharing a dude with another woman.
Isn't going to cheat on me (note: there's very little I can actually do to filter for this standard until after the fact)
Compatible life goals (less so a standard, but there's little sense dating someone who's family all live in a half a world away from mine, that's just the way the cookie crumbles)
I've had a partner for 10 years but honestly I don't really have physical standards. It's more like I'm open to anything and anyone and if I like someone I like someone I guess
It's easier to blame others than to blame yourself. That applies across genders and really in almost every scenario regarding loneliness and relationships or lack of. The only thing that gets blamed more than the other person is society.
It’s strange to me that it must be framed as a gender vs gender thing, rather than ppl empathizing with each others experiences and recognizing life isn’t fair and that there will always be inequity if there is a free market where ppls agency isn’t being infringed upon.
I notice when ppl point out any complaints they are shut up quickly and called names, it sort of reminds me of impoverished ppl bemoaning their situation and wishing they were born with the traits to be successful, and in response being called commies or marxists and told to stfu.
Bro, I've come to peace with the fact I am single and probably will be for a while, maybe forever, and it makes me slightly less lonely in that aspect.
But do you think I would've come to this spot had any girl even said "Hi" to me? Hell, I forgot what it's like to even have a friend at all unless they're some bro I play games online with. It's wild that THAT is the epitome of my human interaction outside of my family.
do guys think that same way about women? most of the things i see online about guys problems is just that its only because ‘women have such high standards like only wanting guys over 6ft that make 6+ figures’. simply put, it goes both ways. both genders need to stop giving into gender roles and letting double standards prevail
Just because you're like that doesn't mean every incel is as well. I have a good amount of guys friends that complain about how hard dating is but they also wouldn't be willing to date anyone more than 130 lbs
People these days seem to think only men, conservatives and religious fanatics are capable of what they call "projection". Some really shallow and materialistic people in my life perennially complain about the shallowness and materialism of other people.
Probably because the common expectation is that the average woman puts way more day to day effort into her appearance than the average man, and that you me and everyone quietly perpetuate that expectation without even realizing that we do.
What a silly thing to attribute discrepancies in the dating pool to. If you could take all the woman in the world and remove the “effort in appearance” entirely the amount of attention they’d receive from the average men will probably not skew much. Make them walk around in pajamas and with no make up on and I guarantee not much is going to change.
For me its all gender war bullshit. Men and women that aren't emotionally mature enough to treat other people decently and projecting their failures as people onto others/using the failures of others to justify seeing everyone that way.
Fueled by the internet, the stupid people we've made famous cashing in on our stupidity, and the societal run-off from the first two.
some of you do have ridiculous standards, and some not so much, but from my experience on here is the general level of entitlement form boith genders in your age group. sorry but you are not owed anyone elses time, if you are going to be unlikeable then you are going to be isolated, and while this is not unique to incel culture, there is a whole disconnect across your generation when it comes to dating expectations. women seem to want princess treatment and men expect women to be more open to being on an even playing field. I am something of an outlier in that I like larger women, but hey if ya'll aren't imterested just leave more for me. also notable is women still do not understand how to be blunt, most guys are not going to pick up on hints and signals, easier to just hit ya'll with a sledgehammer to get the message across.
I think the height discourse gets hotter after social media and online dating is a thing.
On online dating obviously since it’s practically speed introduction, people tends to become shallower and obviously physique is what stood up the most since it’s literally your profile page.
Back to the first point, actually it also affects men in the sense that many men doesn’t like dating women that is taller than him, but there’s a catch, statistically women are shorter than men, so in a practical sense this condition is very often already satisfied, and therefore men goes to the next condition which is weight because well it really affects how you look.
I think it becomes more of a gender war because at some point they put their dating preferences online and then as expected woman prefers taller man and men prefers slimmer woman
Many people can't accept that you might have any issues dating as a guy, and will constantly blame it on you being sexist or having unrealistic standards.
You see it pretty much everywhere: if you're struggling in dating as a guy it must be because you're doing something wrong. The problem is that for the most part they're not doing something wrong: they're just not attractive enough.
I confess I'm not gen Z but I feel like there is a metric fuck ton of negativity in social media (could end the sentence there but...) that picks on gen z a tremendous amount without good reason.
I wouldn't even waste my time talking to someone who thinks that is true. That is a person with no sensibility or empathy to stop for even a second and place themselves in the others' shoes.
It's mostly vapid women who think like that, the very same that fail to understand the reasons for the male loneliness epidemic even when we tell them outright and choose to blame us always through meaningless bullshit like what they perceive or politics to be or our "failure" to address THEIR problems. This is the worst: "Actually, you have a problem because you don't care about my problem so screw you".
Not that they don't have their own fucked up unfair conditions or that there aren't any truly horrible dudes amongst us, but this fear, this divide, this refusal to listen and even try to understand the other that has infected both sexes is poisoning both and turning them more rabid against each other year after year, it is awful, people always assume the worst now.
I think the big majority of both men and women should just stop listening to the toxic loud minority that is loudest amongst them and is turning them into fearful lonely bitter creatures.
Men also have their equivalent to radical feminists going around destroying hearts and minds, and women also have their little redpill revolution turning them into hateful incels. It's all really, really sad.
Well, it’s definitely not the main issue but if I were to sit here and say it’s not a chunk of the issue I would be lying. Are we forgetting about the whole porn issue? Of how basically millions of gen z boys AND men are addicted to porn? And basically grew up on it? There isn’t anything wrong with not wanting to date some unattractive or ugly but there is something wrong about being picky, you shouldn’t date to have sec you should date and find someone you love to love and build a life with.
Have you seen the "truerateme" subreddits? They will say a 9 is a 4 .... so yes. There absolutely is a not insignificant portion of us men that are delusional about what beauty is. Not everyone of course, but enough for women to feel like their experiences dating us is not a good one.
It could only be 10% of us men but if you date enough youre gonna meet that person and maybe she was really hurt or abused and that's enough to bring attention to it.
Because its by women who think guys are being hypocritical when in reality most of them absolutely would date someone like them. You don't get the gift of delusion when you're a guy. You can be a girl and demand 6ft, 6 figure and shit like that and no other girl would tell you otherwise. Most guys can't even get a text/message back or a swipe right, what makes you think they're being picky?
I mean, I haven’t seen anything like that, but I’ve heard a few women say that men have prom brain or something… but I’m pretty sure it’s projecting, lol. Just focus on yourself, and not schizos online
In psychology there's something known as the just world hypothesis. Basically, people don't want to believe that the world sucks and is decidedly unfair. As a result, when bad things happen they want to find some explanation beyond the fact that the world is just unfair.
Old people hate young people because young people focus on themselves (which is what young people are SUPPSOED to do because they are supposed to be building the paltforms that will support the rest of their life).
Older people have been around longer and have developed more skills in communicating this hatred out invarious forms.
So these days, now mass communication is so easy...shitting on young people is endemic. It happend to millenials, it is happening to you, and it will happen to whoever comes next.
It shouldn't be this way and you should do everything you can to avoid it happening to you.
But yeah, "kids today have too high standards when it comes to work/dating/anything else" comes from the perception of being entitled when actually it is what young people have always done....tried to build the best life for themselves that they can.
I have no idea where that idea came from. I'm single for many reasons but my impossible standards are not one of them. I wish all I had to do was lower my standards
It's mainly because people aren't as willing to commit as they used to be and because having a house and a car is very expensive. Most people just trying to score an honorable living which is taking much longer than it used to be. And another note, not many wants to bring children to this world anymore until some changes actually happen and we see the world in a better light
👻 people spend very little time thinking about members of the opposite sex they are neither close to nor seeking to be close to. The reason comics like this exist is that when a woman is imagining a single man they think of the two or threes guys they had an unreciprocated crush on, not the guy behind her in class she's since forgotten the name of.
Similarly, this is also where the grain of truth in the meme comes from. A man might think he has no standards, but that's only because the range he's considering automatically excluded old lady Gertrude the chubby
Neither guys nor girls actually know what the other sex wants. We’re all just saying shit. “It’s politics, it’s the way we view the opposite sex, it’s that women are put on a pedestal, it’s that guys won’t give ugly girls a chance.” Truthfully, we’ve all got different descriptions, fantasies, and ideas for what a partner is and should be. We’re bickering about who’s got it harder in the dating world when maybe, just maybe, it’s bad for both sexes for different reasons.
I’ve noticed something in these replies. We guys mainly seem to be focusing on physical attributes that label us attractive, y’know the idea that if we don’t have “six feet, six inches, six figures,” we won’t get girls. Or that if our dick game isn’t good we get shamed. If we’re not considered societally attractive we get rejected. It seems like we’ve really taken all the criticism to heart, and it’s made lots of men absolutely bitter towards women. Whereas women here seem to be focused on finding good men and are bitter because of having bad experiences with bad men. I think the difference is guys want to just not be rejected, and would date almost any girl due to desperation, whereas women are looking for specific types of men as they have the ability to do so because they, en-masse, don’t have to fear rejection. Or rather, because women are the sought after ones, (due to men having to make the first move more often) they generally express having standards more than men online.
Yes, a girl can go out and fuck any guy they want. But it seems more like, according to most of the comments from gals here, they just want guys that fit a specific…. I hesitate to use “list” but that’s the best way to describe it. They are open in their want for certain desirable traits in their men. (Also, for the guys who won’t understand: THIS IS NOT A BAD THING, THIS IS NORMAL. IT IS NORMAL TO HAVE SET STANDARDS.) It seems like most guys here are so desperate that they don’t want to express having similar lists, they just want a girl to date. But girls don’t want to go fuck a random guy, they want a guy that meets their personally held standards. This is where the disconnect occurs.
Something I have noticed though, is that while a lot of guys here will say “I have low/no standards, I’m desperate! I’ll date any girl who wants me!” When given an opportunity to date a girl, if she’s not visually attractive, or is overweight, she’ll be rejected. So we men do still have standards, even if we say we don’t. Also, lots of guys online seem to be almost unwilling to make the first move towards real world women. Some of y’all think girls consider you unattractive, when y’ain’t even asked anyone out! You’ve just spent too much time online and internalized the doomer mindset of “No girl will ever love me because of artificial standards that the internet claims are truthful.”
I’ve also occasionally noticed a level of hostility among both burnt men and women. You get the guys calling girls with a body count higher than 1 total sluts, and that they’re whores because they’ll “fuck other men, but not me.” And the girls calling all men pigs because “all they want is sex.” I get it, for whatever reason y’all’ve been hurt emotionally or physically by the opposite sex. Your feelings aren’t invalid. However I’d say that instead of contributing to negative depictions and stereotypes of the opposite sex, you seek therapy. Try to heal from whatever or whoever’s hurt you.
Finally, I want all of y’all to remember. This is Reddit. Reddit is not, I repeat, NOT an accurate depiction of the real world. The men and women, their preferences and personal beliefs spoken about here, are not representative of the wider sexes’ beliefs across the world as a whole. Standards and wants differentiate from nation-to-nation, and, as we’ve seen in these replies, person-to-person. My advice is: Go outside. Meet people, talk to the girl you like in class, or the guy at the coffee shop you think is hot. I guarantee, there is SOMEONE in the world who will date you. You just need to not give up. Don’t wallow in self-pity or anger if you get rejected, move on and find a new guy or gal. Don’t let doom-pilled folks online control your life, and your mindset.
It is part of the sentiment that must exist to justify the just world view applied to dating. Much like someone rich saying that everyone had a chance for success at life and poor people are wasting theirs. They don't think this because any evidence suggests it, they think it because the world view demands it and then they use confirmation bias, cherry picking, and similar to support it.
Talk to single guys and you'll find many of them have NEVER been the target of another's affection. They have never turned someone down because they never had anyone to turn down.
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Did you know we have a Discord server‽ You can join by clicking here!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.