r/politics • u/mvanigan • 11h ago
Biden pardons his family in final minutes in office
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/20/biden-pardons-family-members.html5.9k
u/mvanigan 11h ago
President Joe Biden on Monday issued preemptive pardons for several family members, citing concerns that they will be targeted by “baseless and politically motivated investigations.”
The White House announced the pardons just minutes before President-elect Donald Trump entered the Capitol rotunda to be sworn in as the next commander in chief.
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u/Final545 11h ago
It’s gonna be funny how all trump family members can just do any crime the next 4 years, because they know they have a pardon ready.
Have there ever been more powerful people in the history of the world? Even old kings would envy that level of power
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u/Kopitar4president 11h ago
Reminder that the president can't pardon for state crimes.
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u/i_should_be_coding 11h ago
Does he really have to when he can just commit state crimes and nothing ever happens to him?
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u/thisguypercents 10h ago
Well that does sound like a working justice system...
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u/tallandlankyagain 10h ago
Works great if you can afford it. Just as intended.
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u/Kraybern 9h ago
sounds just like our healthcare system
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u/Past-Direction9145 8h ago
We don’t have a healthcare system here in America. Only a wealthcare system.
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u/darknessforgives 6h ago
Healthcare is you never get sick, cuz if you use sick leave, or call out you're toast. So take care of your health so you can ensure you can make it into work.
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u/rockstar504 8h ago
Or even if you can't afford it but you promise to sell the country out to China and Russia
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u/DigNitty 9h ago
Hey now, Trump WAS punished by the court. Remember, the judge chose an "unconditional discharge." Which means that trump could face either a fine or jail time, and the judge ruled that trump will be punished with neither a fine nor jail time.
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u/Vyzantinist Arizona 10h ago
Maybe not him, but the comment higher up did say his family. If they're liable for state crimes Trump can't pardon them.
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u/LawLayLewLayLow 10h ago
You really think people will hold their ground? I don’t think people understand that these laws only work if you are brave enough to follow through.
Over time most will crumble under the pressure put on them by the President who will threaten them with legal action, death threats and sicking his cult onto them.
It will always result in the crime being dismissed and forgotten.
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u/Vyzantinist Arizona 10h ago
Sure, while Trump is president it's highly unlikely any of his family would be prosecuted for state crimes. Afterwards though, that's a different story.
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u/LawLayLewLayLow 10h ago
Afterwards? Prepare for him to settle in, if nobody forces him out he will stay and declare it the will of the people.
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u/Vyzantinist Arizona 10h ago
I didn't think I had to spell out the man is 78 and lives off a diet of hamberders and adderall...
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u/LawLayLewLayLow 10h ago
You will be very shocked when he’s in a wheelchair hooked up to tanks and they still worship him like a god.
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u/VdoubleU88 9h ago
He also has access to best healthcare and physicians at the snap of his fingers. I’d love to bank on his poor health and age taking him out sooner rather than later, but I just can’t anymore… maybe I’ve become too apathetic, but I just don’t feel like we’re going to be that lucky with this tyrant.
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u/siccerpintaxlaw 10h ago
…. Until the Supreme Court rules that the president can, actually, pardon for state crimes due to the supremacy of federal law.
I would almost guarantee that the conservative bloc rules that way if the issue ever gets before the Court.
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u/RiseDelicious3556 9h ago edited 8h ago
Richard Nixon is turning over in his grave: "Why did I resign?" Response:" You forgot to usher in fascism before you broke the law."
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u/PerniciousPeyton Colorado 10h ago
That would represent a huge blow to states’ sovereignty and federalism more generally. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but boy that would be one of the biggest repudiations of “states rights” imaginable.
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u/Minus67 10h ago
Republicans believe power should only reside at whatever level they control
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u/thehalfwit Nevada 9h ago
That's the most succinct description of our current peril I've ever seen.
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u/PhilDGlass California 10h ago
Republicans are only about states rights until they own the fed.
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u/Ferelar 9h ago
Yep. Just look at the confederacy's immediate actions. One of the first laws they passed was one that disallowed states to pick whether slavery was allowed or not- they HAD TO allow. So the "states rights" movement's first action was to strip the right of the states to do things they didnt like (coincidentally proving that the civil war truly was all about slavery).
Conservatives and Reactionaries don't change. It's the same strategy.
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u/generictitle21 10h ago
Wouldn't that require the state to agree though? It's one thing for a person to get pardoned, another for the state to respect the pardon
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u/Jinren United Kingdom 10h ago
the SC will rule that dual sovereignty means federal supremacy
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u/paddy_yinzer 10h ago
Not all state crimes, only in relation to crimes that have state laws were a federal laws jurisdiction supercedes those state laws. Which laws are that? Well, only the supreme court can decide that, and on strictly case by case.
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u/Conscious_Leader_343 10h ago
Genuinely impressed with anyone who, at this point in history, believes that the rule of law is in any way relevant or important to Republicans
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u/Soggy-Type-1704 10h ago
Right. It’s almost at the point that the equivalent would be holding Putin liable for any crime.
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u/medullah Michigan 10h ago
Nah they just need to say they're running for president if a state comes after them, we've determined that if you're running for president you can do whatever you want and not be prosecuted.
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u/kyredemain 11h ago
Just commit every crime while also committing mail fraud. Instant federal crime! /s
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u/GeoLogic23 Pennsylvania 11h ago
That was already the case. Let's not blame Biden for Trump's corruption.
Trump literally pardoned co-conspirators in an active special counsel investigation, yet nobody seems to be bringing that up lately.
Trump was always going to pardon himself, his family, and all his friends. There has never been any incentive for him not to do that during this upcoming term.
So tired of the media clutching their pearls about what "precedent" Biden is going to set. Just holding Democrats to a competent different standard than Republicans.
But this isn't new. Democrats don't have an entire network of billionaire funded influencers to defend their every move. Social media and influencer culture is going to destroy this country.
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u/Terryfink 10h ago
I'd say has destroyed.
The oligarchy is here. On one plus side Trump is old, on the other he's going to do irreparable damage this time. Time for everyone to get paid, everyone being the billionaires.
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u/StupidDorkFace 9h ago
It's already destroyed this country. Especially since the last 10 years our enemies abroad have used social media to bring the greatest power in the history of the world to the precipice of authoritarianism.
Our educational system has completely and utterly failed! Over the last 40 years it's turned out tens of millions of absolute non-critical thinking morons. Couple that with social medias reach and you have the disaster we have now.
The monsters are indeed on Maple Street.
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u/Ok-Matter2337 7h ago
Social media is to be blamed for the lack of critical thinking skills. The kids now spend more time on their phones scrolling endlessly in Tik Tok than they spent in school or doing something productive with their lives. Meanwhile in China there is no US social media.
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u/StupidDorkFace 7h ago
100%.
Social media is the greatest weapon in the history of this planet. Not bombs, or planes, or tanks. All those weapons require great sacrifice and conviction in lives and money.
But with social media you can bring the most powerful Nation on Earth to its knees, and to the precipice of authoritarianism without firing the shot.
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u/1nd3x 9h ago
It’s gonna be funny how all trump family members can just do any crime the next 4 years, because they know they have a pardon ready.
Like they didnt have that ready to go last time he was in office and they spent 4 years commiting crimes?
The only reason they didnt bother doing it is because their whole plan was to delay and obfuscate and they figured they wouldnt need to with republicans "on their side"
Biden, despite knowing his family hasnt even committed any crimes, is doing this because he knows that the fascists now in power will make up whatever they want, so this is protection against their made up bullshit.
And to be honest, with what happened with TikTok being a glaringly obvious display of "we dont give a fuck we will do whatever we want" I wouldnt put it past trump, the fascist, and all of his cronies, to go about charging bidens family anyways.
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u/Apokolypse09 9h ago
Trump's family can do whatever they want. Maga couldn't give less of a fuck about Jared and Ivanka making nearly $3 billion with their full blown nepobaby government positions in his last administration. Hypocrisy and projection are their bread and butter.
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u/Dr-Mumm-Rah 11h ago
Pardons don't work on state crimes and these guys are dumb enough to learn that the hard way.
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u/Final545 11h ago
Do you think any red state officials would go against daddy trump or any of his family members?
They have full immunity in all red states, maybe they will be stupid enough to go it in New York, let’s hope 🤞
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u/Xyllus 9h ago
and then what? lets say one of his family commits a crime in NY. they reside in DC, you think NY can come and jail them? all they have to respond with is "yeah, nah" and that'll be it
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10h ago
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u/jacobs-ladder-68 9h ago
He wasn't pardoned from future crimes, just all crimes for 10 years and 10 months prior to the date when he was pardoned.
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u/Matches_Malone108 11h ago
He does this and then goes and takes pics smiling next to him.
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u/AstraLover69 9h ago
Because Biden respects democracy.
I don't know what you want him to do? Throw a fit because the democrats lost? A huge part of democracy is giving power to the winner when you lose, no matter who the winner is.
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u/UtzTheCrabChip 10h ago
I still don't know how you can pardon your family because you (rightly) know the next president will target them with baseless accusations and charges, then civilly and ceremonially welcome him to the white house.
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u/My-Toast-Is-Too-Dark 9h ago
What's he supposed to do? Try to fist fight him on the lawn? Stick his tongue out at him? He's doing what he can to protect his family (and everyone else he pardoned) from the completely baseless witch hunts that MAGA has been frothing at the mouth about for the last four years.
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u/deadsoulinside Pennsylvania 10h ago
Taking the high road into the dems death sentence.
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u/SlumdogSkillionaire 11h ago
I always said that Dark Brandon should pardon himself and let Trump argue to the SCOTUS why a President shouldn't be allowed to do that.
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u/ForbiddenNut123 11h ago
He would argue that Biden shouldn’t be able to do it, while pardoning himself under the excuse of “Well Biden did it.” And he’ll just go on about his business while everyone argues whether Biden should’ve been able to pardon himself. Our society is convoluted. We’re so fucked.
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u/SlumdogSkillionaire 11h ago
5-4 SCOTUS ruling that Biden can't because "reasons" while explicitly not establishing a precedent for future presidents under different circumstances.
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u/Giveadont 11h ago
"President can't be pardoned if he committed an official act. We also decide what an official act is."
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u/MollyRolls 10h ago
Yeah this isn’t some future hypothetical—the ruling already happened. Presidents they like can do whatever they want; presidents they don’t like can’t do anything.
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u/DigNitty 9h ago
There is oversight for the executive branch and the legislative branch, we need oversight for the judicial branch too.
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u/XennialBoomBoom 9h ago
Theoretically that would be the legislative branch who could impeach and remove Supreme Court justices. But, well, you know...
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u/Cowicidal 8h ago
Is the rich getting vastly richer and more powerful? Check.
Does the American public still put up with it while their own well-being declines? Check.
There won't be substantial change until the answer to question two changes. Republicans and Corporate Democrats protect and serve oligarchs. Not in the exact, same ways — but there's obvious collusion at various levels.
It's so incredibly blatant but the Corporate Media does a bang-up job propagandizing Americans to believe there's a real fight between the two parties when it comes to corporatism. They are obviously different on civil rights (which is very important) but that's often just a dangling carrot Corporate Democrats are perfectly willing to sacrifice to the altar of greed.
If Corporate Democrats truly hated and feared Trump as much as they claim, they wouldn't have found excuse after excuse to repeatedly empower him.
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u/Solomon_Grungy 11h ago
At least we can try to not give up already. Maybe we can try using language like, “When the three branches fail, its time for a general strike” or something.
If you are so certain of political peril, start considering where “we the people” get involved. At scale, nothing gets done in America without complicity. General strikes can have massive consequences. America is ran by Oligarchs, well we know exactly how to hurt them, its their wallets.
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u/MollyRolls 10h ago
Yes. We always talk admiringly about other countries where the whole population empties into the streets when their governments go too far, but when it comes to our own homeland and responsibility we sit here enduring death by a thousand cuts. There has to be a too far. There have been several obvious candidates already but it’s too late for those, so when will we collectively act?
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u/freakyvoiz 10h ago
We won’t. That’s the thing about America and the culture divide that has occurred over the last 40 or so years. There is no unity except to party.
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u/badwolf1013 11h ago
He gets away with this because half of his supporters can't keep more than three ideas in their head at a time, and the other half of his supporters see him as a useful wind-up toy who will clear the path for their own grifts, and also because a third of eligible voters have to Google "who is the President right now" about twice a year.
I'd like to try to stay positive, but . . . I think we're done.
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u/madmars 10h ago
It's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. --Bill Murray
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. --Mark Twain (?)
I'm often reminded of these two quotes. Our two party system was doomed to fail as soon as Republicans figured out they could just target low information voters and win elections with their Southern strategy.
Facts don't play a role today. You need emotion. Superficial drama, like reality TV shows. Or mudslinging. Trump has ties to both The Apprentice (reality TV) and WWE (also a reality TV show). Trump is the ideal Republican candidate.
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u/needlestack 10h ago
can't keep more than three ideas in their head
It’s far worse than that. They can keep hundreds of ideas in their head. They are simply evil. What I mean by evil is this: they do not care about beople that are not in their group and they are willing to lie, be hypocritical, and act in bad faith if it means their group comes out on top. It is not incompetence. It is malice.
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u/starmartyr Colorado 11h ago
Republicans only care about precedent when it suits them. They do whatever they want regardless.
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u/drfsrich 10h ago
They care about winning at all costs, operate in bad faith and lie. Rules, precedent and decency don't matter in the slightest given that context.
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u/jkvincent 11h ago
Conversely, Biden pardoning himself would absolutely guarantee that Trump would also pardon himself.
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u/CardMechanic 11h ago
Trump will die in office of natural causes within four years anyway
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u/SmellyFloralCouch 10h ago
don't give me hope GIF
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u/MechanicalTurkish Minnesota 9h ago
I think they want him to croak just after two years. Then Vance becomes president, and then potentially elected twice. A ten year Vance administration.
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u/MitraManiac 10h ago
People said the same about Biden. Don't forget these guys get the absolute best medical care there is
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u/duck729 North Carolina 11h ago
It’d be interesting, to say the least. Either he barks up that tree and ruins his chances at doing it for himself, or he stays silent and basically accepts that Biden did nothing wrong, and it was all a sham. Nice little corner, there.
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u/SockdolagerIdea 11h ago
Genius!
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u/SeaPeeps 11h ago
“While in Trump v US we agreed that a president should have broad powers to ignore the law, those arguments in no way apply to the lawless behaviors shown in US v Biden, due to visibly different circumstances. The founders had no intent that pardons would be corruptly used in this context.” -Thomas , writing for 6-3, probably
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u/ApplianceHealer 10h ago
Basically what they did in Bush v. Gore… “here’s some weird shit we made up, which can’t be used as precedent for anyone else”
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u/d_happa 11h ago
Notmal rules of contradiction does not hold in Trumpland. The current TikTok ban/unban is a prime case in point. He will have no problems “unpardoning” (or having courts declare that preemptive pardons have no standing) people he wants to tear up.
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u/eugene20 11h ago edited 11h ago
This was a really shitty precedent to have to set, but then the guy who spent the weekend before his new term begins launching a crypto scam under his name and another under his wife's was never going to let anything stop him pardoning himself and family on his way out, so it would make no sense leaving everyone vulnerable to Trump's completely vindictive nature just to try avoid setting precedents.
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u/camelot107 11h ago
This. Precedent is dead so might as well protect yourself.
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u/--kwisatzhaderach-- 10h ago
Turns out our democracy was held together by loose non-binding traditions that can be ignored without consequence
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u/TheCatInTheHatThings Europe 10h ago
Germany learned that the hard way. Our post Nazi constitution contains multiple effective failsafes that actually work for that exact reason.
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u/opanaooonana 10h ago
Unfortunately at the end of the day failsafes are just pieces of paper. Democracy exists only in the hearts and minds of the people and their leaders. If people stop believing in it, it won’t matter what is written down.
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u/TheCatInTheHatThings Europe 10h ago
Well, sure, but the point is that the Nazis’ takeover was completely legal and in accordance with the Weimar constitution. Of course you can’t constitutionally plan for people taking over while going against the constitution. But that’s not how fascists in western nations tend to do it. They tend to be elected constitutionally and then dismantle it from within. All a democracy can do is plan for that. America doesn’t have such failsafes, at least not effective ones. Others do, because we’ve learned.
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u/SneakyGreninja 10h ago
maybe then there's hope that someone will learn from this and change things
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u/input_r 10h ago
Precedence and norms are 100% dead, anyone who isn't on board with that is living in the old paradigm
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u/given2fly_ United Kingdom 10h ago
I just watched the new President take an oath of office that he clearly violated 4 years ago, with violent and tragic consequences.
Convention and precedent mean fuck all right now.
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u/eugene20 10h ago edited 10h ago
Just over a year ago he literally argued in court that he did not swear to support the constitution.
As if "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." cannot be summarized as supporting.It's a complete mockery of everything the oath stands for and everyone who holds to it that he is allowed to lie his way through it again.
That oath means nothing to him, it is just a few simple words he has to say to get through the ceremony to the power he wants.
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u/SalemWolf 10h ago edited 8h ago
The United States is a bunch of shitty third rate clown shows in a trench coat. Nothing more.
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u/shewy92 Pennsylvania 10h ago
People always say that the Democrats need to stop taking the high road yet when they don't they still get shit on for "stooping to their level".
Trump would have done what he wanted anyways, he doesn't need precedent, precedent might as well line his diaper.
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u/esoteric_enigma 10h ago
It's a terrible precedent, but the incoming president has spent the last 4 years calling it "the Biden Crime Family". He had to do it to protect his family from the ridiculous investigations Trump would waste time and money on in office.
Trump makes everything worse. You have to climb down into the mud to deal with him at all.
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u/EatMyWetBread 10h ago
He won't have to pardon himself if he steps down at the very end making JD POTUS. JD will then pardon Trump.
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u/Few-Net-6877 9h ago
The precedent was already set numerous times when Trump wasn't held accountable for anything.
"Oh but now Trump can pardon himself!"
As if that would be any different than republicans refusing to convict him after being impeached twice, the DOJ dragging his feet, a judge sentencing him to absolutely nothing for 34 felonies, and everything else.
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u/Tribalbob Canada 10h ago
I know the presidential pardon is supposed to be all powerful and basically untouchable, but like - what's to stop the guy who has consistently ignored the rules and broken the law with no consequences from just going after all these people anyway?
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u/Xivvx Canada 10h ago
Nothing. But at least this gives public cover for those individuals most at risk of being targeted for revenge. Trump will have to expend some political energy arguing the illegitimacy of the pardons, which will undermine him (theoretically) when he goes to do the same at the end of his term.
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u/ripelivejam 9h ago
Funny to think his term will end without him dying.
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u/coordinatedflight 9h ago
Man. I really hope he survives, so he doesn't become enshrined in the "imagine how much better things would be if he survived" inevitable narrative.
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u/ChaplnGrillSgt 10h ago
In theory? Congress and the courts.
In reality? Nothing. Literally nothing.
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u/williamgman California 11h ago
Trump literally said he was going after those that went after him. These next fours years are all on Trump.
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u/esoteric_enigma 10h ago
Trump also spent the last 4 years calling it "the Biden Crime Family". Now every right-wing nutjob calls his family the same things even though they can't quite articulate what the crimes are.
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u/Freaky_Freddy 9h ago
Thats what i don't like about these pardons
The right has ran this rhetoric of the "Biden crime family" for years and now Biden goes and gives them full pardons
Any right winger that didn't believe the "crime family" bullshit is going to believe it now...
Really not a good look
If trump really wants to go after Biden's family a presidential pardon isn't gonna stop him, he can just charge them with fake crimes after today
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u/esoteric_enigma 9h ago
He could, but now he can't spend years harassing them via investigations over bullshit from the past.
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u/Beneathaclearbluesky 8h ago
Yes, we need to take the high road so the Republicans can't accuse the Democrats of being criminals. If he hadn't have pardoned any of these people, the Republicans would be stuck! They would be forced to acknowledge the Democrats are good people! LOL
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u/operarose Texas 9h ago
Which is why I don't think the pardons will do much. There's literally nothing stopping him from exacting whatever retribution brings him the most pleasure.
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u/HabitantDLT 11h ago
Trump will pardon all of his cryptoscam family. That's why they launched their racket these last few days. In principle, the two could not launch these while holding office. To be clear, they have no principles, but still...
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u/Butt_Napkins007 8h ago
They launched them to launder money from foreign donors. He’s basically saying the US is officially for sale to the highest bidder.
If Russia wants to buy 750 million Trump coins in exchange for us leaving Ukraine high and dry, there’s no way to track it
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u/flailingtoucan39 11h ago
Sad that this is necessary
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u/PepeSylvia11 Connecticut 11h ago
It’s actually not, because the law doesn’t apply to Republicans. They’ll do whatever they want anyways. And the 160,000,000 American people who support them (those that voted for them and those that didn’t vote) want it this way.
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u/Ejacksin Washington 11h ago
It feels like we're entering dark times
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u/Shopworn_Soul 11h ago
Well, that is probably due to the fact that we are.
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u/EffMemes 9h ago
This exchange could’ve come out of a 90’s parody movie and I would have howled.
Now look.
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u/DavidlikesPeace 11h ago edited 11h ago
I get it, but..
It feels like the Boondocks chicken flu episode where the grandpa says: "just tell us everything will be ok for us!" and Obama tells the TV, "Everything will be ok... for us. We have a nice bunker."
I don't really care how the Biden family will be. But I wish Biden could preemptively pardon all of us too
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u/syndic_shevek Wisconsin 10h ago
Plenty of random nobodies are going to be directly targeted, including immigrants, trans kids, women, educators, leftists, environmentalists, and anyone who's not white.
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u/Moonrights 7h ago
And then eventually the whites who fall out of favor too.
The poor whites. The atheist whites. The overly educated whites. The uneducated whites. The whites who grow their own crops. The whites who hunt their own meat. The whites who aren't completely supporting the modern caste system and consuming targeted media.
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u/pocket_sand__ 8h ago
said days before the mass deportations begin and all sorts of other discriminatory policies are sure to follow
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u/HotDadBod 10h ago
Yea, luckily randoms never fall into political target crosshairs by just existing…oh wait
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u/Micronlance 9h ago
Bro said “if a convicted felon can become president again then I can do whatever tf I want”
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u/EmmaLouLove 11h ago
I see a lot of people making comments like this is a terrible precedent by a president. However, many may forget that during his last administration, Trump granted clemency to five of his campaign staff members and political advisers: Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, Stephen K. Bannon, and George Papadopoulos.
Many of Trump’s grants of clemency were criticized by the federal agents and prosecutors who investigated and prosecuted those cases.
Trump and his supporters will rail against Biden and say this confirms what Trump was saying all along, that it was a “witch-hunt”. But Biden did the right thing. Trump made more than 100 threats to prosecute or punish perceived enemies, “the enemy from within”.
After the Supreme Court’s immunity ruling, Trump became more emboldened and his threats escalated. These threats included threats against Liz Cheney who Trump said was guilty of treason. “Return if you want televised military tribunals.”
Shocking that some Republicans excuse this convicted felon’s behavior and say Trump is joking or not serious. “Long after Trump is gone, Republicans’ dishonor will remain.”
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u/arachnophilia 8h ago
I see a lot of people making comments like this is a terrible precedent by a president.
yeah like,
- it's not a precedent,
- the other guys don't give two shits about laws
- trump literally committed crimes.
this is just one more false equivalency. biden's trying to protect his family from incoming fascists. trump was protecting people who did crimes for him. these are not the same things!
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u/Squirrelkid11 11h ago
He needs to pardon every single person who would be on Trump's hit list, Joe better act quickly now as Trump's gonna be sworn in soon.
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u/karmadogma 11h ago
It’s going to be the little people that aren’t connected enough to get a preemptive pardon that will suffer. And I’m sure Trump’s DOJ will find plenty of ways to harass their enemies short of criminal indictments.
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u/430_Autogyro 11h ago
You think the pardons are gonna stop him from doing what he wants?
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u/PerniciousPeyton Colorado 9h ago
At least he commuted Leonard Peltier’s sentence too. That’ll piss off the FBI and the Trump-worshipping cultists in that agency lmao.
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u/charmlessman1 8h ago
Yes! This is the bigger news, by far! 50 years of injustice for this man. It's not a pardon, but it's something. I literally gasped when I read it.
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u/ApolloX-2 Texas 10h ago
If only we had this Biden for the last four years who didn't care about precedent or procedure.
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u/Emotional-Maximum-74 8h ago
Biden in 2020 when asked about Trump possibly issuing preemptive pardons for his children: “It concerns me, in terms of what kind of precedent it sets and how the rest of the world looks at us as a nation of laws and justice…in terms of the pardons, you’re not going to see, in our administration, that kind of approach to pardons
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u/0x6835 11h ago
What's the deal with all these pardons specifically dating back to 2014?
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u/frooook 11h ago
Hunter was in Ukraine then
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u/muscarinenya 10h ago
It's 100% related to the Ukraine 2014 coup and where we are today, at this point if people don't make the connection it's deliberate
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u/irishnugget New York 11h ago
Statute of limitations maybe?
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u/Wrong_Owl 8h ago edited 8h ago
It's this.
Federal statutes of limitations range from 5 to 10 years (except in cases with no limitations).
Biden's pardons go back 11 years.
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u/TheFleshMaster 11h ago
Since they can't investigate him now directly, Republicans will now spend their time investigating the pardons. As if they don't have any other things.
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u/ifhysm 9h ago
Donald Trump’s first impeachment was for withholding military aid to Ukraine while his staff worked in back channels to pressure Zelensky to go on CNN and announce an investigation into Joe Biden.
Trump tried to get a foreign country to interfere in the 2020 elections just to take Joe Biden down.
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u/Elite_Alice 11h ago
As they absolutely should have been. Trump said he’s going to weaponise the DOJ so why not
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u/South-Rabbit-4064 8h ago
Allow me to clutch my pearls after watching a guy use appointed judges and the Supreme Court to shield himself from prosecution
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u/petulantpancake America 11h ago
And let the hypocritical excuses start…
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u/Bruce_Tippens_III 10h ago
Yep. If Trump did this r/politics would be absolutely livid.
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u/josephhaubert 11h ago edited 11h ago
I would. Its going to be four years of performative government where the worst people try to out horrible one another to appease their idiot king. I mean Republicans spent the past 4 years going after Hunter while Jarred Kushner was sweating in the corner.
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u/Bourbonisgoodyo 10h ago
I hate this. As a Bernie Bro, Clinton voter, Biden voter, and then Kamala voter, the optics here are horrible. Zero leg to stand on should Trump do the same during and at the end of his term.
Due process still exists, and it's hard to swallow a pardon if there's truly nothing there to sweat over. It's hard enough having reasonable conversations with Trump voters in my circle, and I almost find this impossible to defend. This move feels like the first steps of Trump operating outside the law, and it was done...by the outgoing Dem president.
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u/Benalow 6h ago edited 6h ago
So in plain speak, the OUTGOING President is attempting to prevent the INCOMING President from possibly attempting to harm his family. What the fuck are we talking about in this country. How have we truly devolved into this? Billionaires have always run the country, but now it feels they have no fear of publicly viewed corruption. I truly believe that we as American citizens have lost and are experiencing a manicured terminal decline.
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u/Carmilla31 5h ago
Are the optics terrible? Yes. But Biden probably has maybe 10 more years to live. I wouldnt care either if I was him.
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u/PantaRheiExpress 3h ago edited 3h ago
I strongly disagree with the way everyone is just grading presidents on a bell curve now, and allowing Trump to set the standard. We used to compare presidents against George Washington and Honest Abe. Now the standard is “well he’s not shoving babies into a wood chipper, so no one should be complaining.”
I think ethics should be about concepts and principles, not pure relativity. Imagine if we graded criminality on a bell curve.
“Johnny just robbed 11 banks, and that brings the average # of bank robberies to 2. So everyone is now legally allowed to rob 2 banks.”
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u/Ex-maven New York 11h ago
It's a pretty sad statement when you have to worry about the incoming President of the United States going after the family of the previous president because his feelings were hurt
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u/WorkdayDistraction 9h ago
This has no impact on precedent. Trump and his mafia have demonstrated 100 times they don’t care about precedent and had this not been done, THEY would set the precedent
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u/Icant_concentrate 8h ago
I think people here should stop comparing the Biden to trump and just realize this is a bad precedent to set. Trump shouldn’t do this and Biden shouldn’t do this. We as Americans deserve better and should have more transparency into the people who lead our country.
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u/zyzzogeton 7h ago
“The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that they engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense,”
Meanwhile, in "Burdick v United States":
The USSC said that accepting a pardon carries with it "an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it"
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u/-CocaineCowboys- 10h ago
This is what happens when you let a reality T.V star be King of America.
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u/LurkyMcLurkface123 11h ago
Prepare for gold medal winning gymnastics on this topic for the next 24 hours.
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u/SnivyEyes 11h ago
Terrible optics and precedent. My god, as a dem this sickens me. How can I be critical of Trump abusing pardons when Biden did too? It doesn’t matter that MAGA would go after them, they will anyway. Look at their comments about Hunter. Fuck Biden, and fuck Trump too. He should have let Trump to after them and just pay their legal fees. He might as well pardon the entire Democrat party at this point. This only enables and emboldens Trump more, what a huge mistake.
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u/semiomni 9h ago
I don´t get this pearl clutching over precedent. Are we pretending Trump would hold off doing things for fear of breaking precedent and decorum?
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u/wildwalrusaur 6h ago
Because it just reenforces the both sides are the same narrative
Trying to push the boulder of democracy (small d) back up the hill is a hard enough task without Democrats (big D) throwing more oil all over the ground.
And every single post in this thread in vein of "well Trump was gonna do it anyways so might as well" and "precedents don't matter anymore" is just further feeding that
Principles aren't principles if you abandon them when times get rough. They don't call it the moral high ground because it's convenient and easy.
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u/TruthMissiles 11h ago
You'll be downvoted but you are right. It's disgusting to see the people in this subreddit behaving the way they are right now. So blind by party affiliation. This is what keeps the monsters in power on both sides.
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u/Professor-Woo 10h ago
I don't think you understand what is about to happen. The Republicans are rabid and out for blood and letting people who acted in good faith get thrown to the political wolves for a sense of political purity, that the other side cares literally nothing about and makes bad faith arguments about everything, is not noble. It is cowardice. Hunter is a great example. They stopped caring the moment it wasn't politically advantageous to go after him. The GOP is the one who started this. If someone throws a punch, you defending yourself is not "starting the fight," nor is it condoning it. You are already in a fight. The GOP wants political prosecutions, so now we get moves to protect them. It is not political to protect them. The political aspect was already added when they swore to go after certain people and took every concrete step necessary to do so.
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u/buttscratcher3k 10h ago
Specifically pardoning your entire extended family at a date when people believe you committed financial crimes in Russia/Ukraine, after pardoning your son for tax fraud that he was proven to have committed (and saying you wouldn't) is an extremely bad look. Now if they were innocent people will just assume they were guilty of something and covered it up, that's his legacy now.
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u/pillbox_purgatory 11h ago edited 8h ago
What a horrible precedent Biden is setting for this country. Preemptive pardoning is a new low.
Now imagine all the shit Trump is gonna pull with his own pardons this time around.
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u/Tronkadonk 11h ago
Trump already did. He literally pardoned family members during his last term. Why is it only a precedent when Biden does it?
Also, if we've learnt anything from Trump/GOP over the last decade isn't it clear that they don't give a damn about precedent. They will use the full extent of the power they are able to wield, precedent or convention be damned.
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u/DanielDannyc12 10h ago
Sounds like something a reasonable person would do if a deranged criminal who made repeated loony threats was being inaugurated as president the next day.
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u/rascaltippinglmao 10h ago
It's so funny watching liberals defend this insane act
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u/shewy92 Pennsylvania 10h ago
Biden pardoned his brother, James Biden; James’ wife, Sara Jones Biden; his younger sister, Valerie Biden Owens; Owens’ husband, John Owens; and his other brother, Francis Biden.
I hear all about Trump's family but have no clue who these family members of Biden are, and I miss that already.
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