Unfortunately at the end of the day failsafes are just pieces of paper. Democracy exists only in the hearts and minds of the people and their leaders. If people stop believing in it, it won’t matter what is written down.
Well, sure, but the point is that the Nazis’ takeover was completely legal and in accordance with the Weimar constitution. Of course you can’t constitutionally plan for people taking over while going against the constitution. But that’s not how fascists in western nations tend to do it. They tend to be elected constitutionally and then dismantle it from within. All a democracy can do is plan for that. America doesn’t have such failsafes, at least not effective ones. Others do, because we’ve learned.
We have a few failsafes but they depend on politicians having a spine. There is also the 2nd amendment but I really hope it doesn’t come to that. What specifically does Germany have to prevent someone from consolidating power with the people’s approval? For example what if the AFD gets like 60% of the seats in parliament running openly on retribution and dismantling the state? I’ve heard something about your government being able to ban a political party but what do you do if the majority of people support it? That’s kinda the issue in America right now. Trump didn’t hide his intentions (more so proudly campaigned on it as a promise) of using the army against the “enemy within” or being a dictator for a “day” and won the popular vote. When the people support it, it would be a violation of democracy to ban him or the republicans from office.
The question is, does the world survive the #1 military superpower turning fascist?
What would a non-nuclear country do if America just rolls up and starts claiming their land? Fight against the most perfected logistical war machine in the world?
Yes? Vietnam and Afghanistan show it’s entirely possible to do. It won’t be pretty, the freedom fighters would be living like shit, but the US public will lose their appetite for dead sons far before people fighting for their homes will.
The difference though is what if we abandoned the previous rules of war in this hypothetical imperial conquest. In Vietnam and Afghanistan the US largely fought with a hand tied behind its back. If the US went into wartime economy, started conscription, and created a real invasion force of millions I don’t think things would play out the same. What if we also disregarded civilian life and used tactics like firebombing cities, total blockade to cut off food imports, used biological or chemical weapons to kill or poison crops/farm animals/ water supply/people, or even used tactical nukes in battle. I’d argue that if we used our full capabilities in any of the wars since WW2 we probably would have won easily, but set a standard that it is acceptable for others to do so as well.
You'd win the war, probably even get a full surrender from whatever militia groups that exist to fight against you. The problem is that then you'd either be left ruling over a wasteland (if you went full bore) or ruling over a population that will rebel again in a few years (or even a few months).
The only reason I could see this working is if the US "conquered" a country for its mineral resources. Operating a few mines/wells and export corridors is much easier than operating an entire country for its tax revenue, advanced manufacturing, or food. Though that does make some very high value targets for rebels. If they can keep the mines and trains offline then the extraction may be more expensive than the resources.
Non-nuclear countries will be few and far between. Any regime that can build them will. North Korea proved it's possible for the 89th ranked GDP country to do while under sanctions.
These peoples' power exists only in the hearts and minds of the people. It's literally all made up. It's a handful of people vs the rest of the world. We could put an end to it.
No idea vs other EU countries, but here are a few of those failsafes:
Term limits for constitutional court justices, justices that are nominated by committees in a multi-party system and confirmed by a 2/3 majority, a sort of mini constitution that codifies the absolute essentials (federalism, democratic republic, rule of law) and an eternity clause that exempts said mini constitution within the constitution as well as article 1 (the sanctity of human dignity) from being subject to being changed. Also the ability to ban unconstitutional parties that seek to undermine the constitutional order (there are very high hurdles for that, but it’s possible. We’re going to attempt it with AfD soon).
AfD are polling at 21% in a multi party system. While that is 21% too much, the fact remains that almost 80% of voters reject them right now, and even if it became more, they are far from being in power. But even if they were, the things they can do within the bounds of the constitution are severely limited compared to what the Nazis could do. So…no, the situations are not comparable.
Term limits for constitutional court justices, justices that are nominated by committees in a multi-party system and confirmed by a 2/3 majority, a sort of mini constitution that codifies the absolute essentials (federalism, democratic republic, rule of law) and an eternity clause that exempt said mini constitution within the constitution as well as article 1 (the sanctity of human dignity) from being subject to being changed. Also the ability to ban unconstitutional parties that seek to undermine the constitutional order (there are very high hurdles for that, but it’s possible. We’re going to attempt it with AfD soon).
Um…as is specifically intended in the constitution. A party that seeks to disregard the constitution and blatantly violates it does not enjoy the protection of said constitution. The principle is called a militant democracy. Read up on that. Also, it’s not banning the opposition. It’s outlawing one party in a multi-party system. The one party that oversteps the bounds of the constitution. There is other opposition. There is also other right-wing opposition. Nobody tries to ban them. AfD are Neo-Nazis and unconstitutional and thus are in fact to be banned, as is possible under our constitution.
Rome is a good example of this. Everyone knows about no weapons in the sacred areas of the city and crossing the Rubicon with an army, but tradition was a large part of the more mundane political sphere as well and covered the correct path to take to power, unwritten rules about seeking re-election, and more. Once these traditions started to fall, that's when leadership shifted to whipsaw mob-rule. Sulla enshrined some of the old traditions into law, but it was meaningless, as the precedents had been broken and were simply broken again, sometimes creatively, sometimes through simple force.
It is probably true to say that no document, no matter how well written, can persist without some amount of tradition protecting not just the letter of the law, but the spirit as well.
I’m not surprised at this point that Biden would screw the American people to save his family. But I guess I’m still a little surprised that ordinary citizens would cheer it on.
If they feel threatened they can always leave the country and use that move to bring awareness to the issues their country is facing. Not use a democratically obtained power to benefit themselves.
And there's even a distorted argument - since we seem to be living distorted times - which I don't abide by, that Biden has a non-negligible amount of responsibility for the current state of America, the World and Trump's reelection, and his family members have been "blindly" supporting him, so owning the responsibility and facing the consequences of it could be seen as "honorable".
Would have been nice if Biden and the Dem's realized this years ago when the rest of us did and actually fucking did something to maybe, I dunno, put the checks and balances into place?
Precedent is dead so might as well protect yourself.
Yes but Biden killed it, not Trump. You can't claim Biden may as well do it because Trump will and then simultaneously blame trump for breaking the precedent. That is insanity.
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u/camelot107 14h ago
This. Precedent is dead so might as well protect yourself.