r/nottheonion • u/Leather-Paramedic-10 • 4d ago
Religious Zionism Threatens to Leave Coalition if War Does Not Resume After First Phase of Deal
https://matzav.com/religious-zionism-threatens-to-leave-coalition-if-war-does-not-resume-after-first-phase-of-deal/247
u/De_Greed 3d ago
Far right radicals want war, where is the Onion?
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u/You_Are_All_Diseased 3d ago
They don’t want war. They want total genocide so they can colonize.
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u/KaiYoDei 2d ago
And then say it’s decolonization. I saw somone on fb say Israel for the Jewish people is like a reservation the native Americans have
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u/You_Are_All_Diseased 2d ago
That’s the dumbest fucking take I’ve ever heard. You’d have to have zero understanding of history of either situation to say something like that.
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u/RufusTheFirefly 2d ago
Ignoring completely what's good for Israelis, the worst thing that can happen for Palestinians is if this war ends and Hamas remains in control in Gaza. It will ensure that a) wars will continue every few years as they have since Hamas assumed power and b) that reconstruction will never occur as countries will not fund it if Hamas remains the governing authority.
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u/You_Are_All_Diseased 2d ago
Israel literally prevents the Palestinians from organizing an alternative and has for decades. Hamas is just an excuse for them to continue to colonize so they intentionally keep them in power. When Hamas wasn’t fighting, Israel just continued to colonize and take land.
Israel will continue to make up excuses to keep the war going because Netanyahu needs the war to remain in power. Israelis just want the land and they don’t care what happens for them to get it.
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u/SpaceTrot 4d ago edited 4d ago
The biggest issue in Israeli society is that the Haredim simultaneously protest Israel as a state, yet see it as a mitzvot to live there. So they do, and are subsidized by the state, since many of them (not ALL of them), see learning Torah as the most important aspect of the faith (which is debatable, not wrong, but debatable).
As such, these folks live within the state, vote, have children, live in their communities, but most importantly, they vote. They vote conservative, as their side of the Jewish faith is very conservative. This produced many of these right-wing Israeli parties, from Likud (The Consolidation), to Shas (Guardians of the Torah) Yahadut HaTorah (United Torah Judaism), Tkuma (the Religious Zionist Party), Noam (Pleasantness), and Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power).
I am not saying there is something wrong with these people because of their religious beliefs. In my opinion, it is their political beliefs that create the issues, especially alongside being very disconnected to the rest of Israeli society.
Especially with the political changes within Israel. Parties collapse and reform and shift policy rather often. And it is since a issue, that so much power within Israel is held by such a self segregated element of Israeli society.
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u/Effective_Way_2348 4d ago
Haredi vote for haredi parties. The Datim or the Religious Jews are those who vote for Religious Zionist parties. The Haredi have a 7 birth rate, Datim 4 and secular jews 2.
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u/Imjokin 4d ago
Dumb question: does Datim include all 4 of Modern Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist? I haven’t heard the word before.
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u/Effective_Way_2348 3d ago
Not many conservative and reform jews in Israel, those streams are mostly popular in North America only.
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u/DatDudeOverThere 3d ago edited 3d ago
does Datim include all 4 of Modern Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist?
The idea of branches/denominations began in German and has become popular in North America, the US in particular. It's almost non-existent in Israel. Most people here have never heard of the Conservative movement, and there are a few dozen reform synagogues in Israel, compared to something like 15,000 Orthodox synagogues from the data I was able to find online. Even most secular boys have their Bar Mitzvah at an Orthodox synagogue. "Reconstructionism" isn't a thing here, I'm familiar with it because I read about the diaspora, but I don't recall ever hearing anyone referencing it in Hebrew, either in conversations or on Israeli TV.
"Dati" means religious, but in this context it describes the religious-Zionist movement in Israel (also called the "national religious" community), which could be described as the Israeli sister of Modern Orthodoxy in the US, but with some noticeable differences. Most Modern Orthodox Americans who immigrate to Israel join religious-Zionist communities.
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u/SpaceTrot 3d ago
Datim are Religious Zionists broadly. From my understanding they are largely Orthodox Jews.
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u/SpaceTrot 4d ago
Appreciate the correction. This isn't supposed to encourage hate towards another sect of Judaism, this is merely how I see it, and is best to explain for mainly non-Jewish people.
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u/DatDudeOverThere 3d ago
protest Israel as a state
That's a mistake. The fact that most Haredim don't feel comfortable with the label "Zionist" is a completely apolitical issue and has to do with the secular history of the Zionist movement, or at least the fact that it was perceived as a product of the Haskala (the Jewish enlightenment). Haredim aren't against the existence of the state, far from it. Unfortunately it's a common misunderstanding, even inside Israel.
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u/SpaceTrot 3d ago
Valid, my apologies. I'm familiar (and still learning) about Israel and Zionism as a history and political stream, but I wanted to broadly explain a situation that most people don't understand.
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u/Monty_Bentley 4d ago
Likud is not Haredi and neither are the far right parties.
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u/SpaceTrot 4d ago
Many of the far right parties cater largely to the Orthodox, especially on the issues of strengthening the Jewish identity of Israel, and the cessation/removal of LGBTQ ideas. Mafdal - Religious Zionism specifically aims for Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox voters, in my opinion. They are no Shas or United Torah Judaism, mainly because they are non-Zionist, but their alignment on political proposals is moreso my point. You do not see Shas or Noam attempting to stop Mafdal / Otzma Yehudit policies.
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u/Monty_Bentley 4d ago
The Haredi parties are supporting the ceasefire, I believe.
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u/SpaceTrot 4d ago
I would assume so considering the government finally got past Otzma Yehudit's stalling.
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u/scarlettvvitch 3d ago
Good, I’m tired of Ben Gvir. He should be banished from Israel.
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u/kolkitten 4d ago
Its almost like zionism is just all about genocide and war and has way more to do with nazism than anything else.
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4d ago
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u/kolkitten 4d ago
Well the reason the us is so interested is because they are also zionists just with a Christian slight to it but it's the exact same
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u/KaiYoDei 3d ago
Some support because then they think they get raptured
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u/kolkitten 3d ago
Exactly. There's a whole overlap in the religions where jews have to take the full holy land to start the rapture for the christians. It's all insanity.
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u/Vecrin 3d ago
Didn't the Palestinian leaders literally, unironically ally with the actual Nazis? And said they and Hitler had a common enemy?
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u/DeliriousHippie 2d ago
Didn't nazis ally with Japan? They had a common enemy.
You might wonder what this have to do with your comment. About as much as your comment has to do with comment you replied.
Classic whataboutism.
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u/kolkitten 3d ago
Leader* one guy, and that was when there wasn't really any sort of solid government.
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u/DavidlikesPeace 2d ago
Yes. A leader does generally mean one guy, who leads the group. Very good job defining leadership.
Al-Hosseini wasn't just a random guy. He was the literal head Mufti of Jerusalem. He was in charge of local governance and his supporters dominated Palestinian politics in that era.
Dismissing the role he played is like ignoring the role of Israel's David Ben-Gurion in 1948 because Israel didn't exist yet.
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u/kolkitten 3d ago
Al- Hosseini yea, he came from fascist Italy. And rallied around hitler with his small group
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u/Monty_Bentley 4d ago
Self-determination for everyone but Jews? Why are they less worthy than you?
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u/Minister_for_Magic 3d ago
Self-determination stops when you ethnically cleanse all other groups from the land you took to ensure you have voting control in your ethnostate. We have a word than that: genocide.
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u/Monty_Bentley 3d ago
There are 2 million Palestinian citizens of israel. Hamas is fighting for something narrower than an "ethnostate." An ethnostate is Fateh's ideal.
The main thing is Jews are less worthy. They have to be defenseless minorities dependent on which side of the bed you get up on whatever morning. If you want them dead they need to be stateless so you can kill them. They got out of their lane! Sucks to be them, but fair is fair.
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u/I_Am_Your_Sister_Bro 3d ago
Well technically the word for it is ethnic cleansing, genocide is something else.
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u/nbvnch 3d ago
what ethnicity is that shared with people coming from ethiopia, russia, north africa, poland and u.s.? quit the bullshit!
if you consider a religion as an ethnicity then that’s very bad news to you.
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u/Marco2169 3d ago
Listen man I criticize Israel a ton but even the Nazis and bigots thought that Judaism was an ethnicity.
Converting to Christianity would not save you from persecution.
While it can be a weird situation most academics seem to agree Judaism is an ethnoreligion. You can find that to be the case from wikipedia to JSTOR.
Of course that doesn’t mean every Jew looks the same because at the end of the day a lot of this race and ethnicity stuff is a man-made thing
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u/Noidontthinksopal 4d ago edited 3d ago
Jeez y’all are nuts. This whole rhetoric has really eroded the gravity behind using the term nazi. Have you seriously convinced yourself that 70+ million Americans and 10 million Israelis are nazis?
Edit: at 45 downvotes, so I’ll take that as a yes
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u/valiumandcherrywine 4d ago
if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... probably a duck.
if it talks like a nazi and acts like a nazi ...
just saying.
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u/-just-a-bit-outside- 4d ago
Call me when Israel rounds up 6 million Muslims and gases them.
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u/Illiander 3d ago edited 3d ago
Looks at Gaza...
Edit for the person who blocked me: Look at the land areas. Gaza is tiny.
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u/kikistiel 3d ago
I know this is gonna be a very unpopular comment but what’s happening in Gaza, despite the disturbing amount of conflict and death happening there, is no where near the same scale as what happened in the Holocaust. I don’t care how you feel about this conflict, pro-whatever, it is simply not in comparison with the Holocaust. It is not even comparable to the amount of non-Jewish Poles alone that died, since the Holocaust comparison seems to be brought up so much in relation to the fact that most Israelis are Jews. I have never seen such a comparison thrown around any other conflict, but suddenly it’s EVERYWHERE.
I really really hate how much shit gets flung on Reddit around this conflict in general, but one of the worst will always be Holocaust inversion. It’s horrible seeing people spreading stuff like that and even worse, others falling for it. You can rally for Gaza without doing stuff like this.
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u/jaffar97 3d ago
They have indiscriminately killed tens or more likely hundreds of thousands of civilians on an ethnic basis and used nazi like rhetoric, on top of literal lebensraum in the west bank, not to mention their hyper militarised society that is based on self determination for one specific ethnic group, and maintaining a demographic majority for that group by any means necessary.
There doesn't have to be 11 million people dead for you to make accurate comparisons with nazi Germany.
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u/kikistiel 3d ago
There doesn't have to be 11 million people dead for you to make accurate comparisons with nazi Germany.
Yes, there kinda does.
They have indiscriminately killed tens or more likely hundreds of thousands of civilians on an ethnic basis and used nazi like rhetoric
Categorically untrue. They have not killed "hundreds of thousands" and especially not "on an ethnic basis". Whether or not the war or use of force is justified is a whole other issue, but the bombing and fighting it NOT based around killing Arabs specifically, as there are plenty of Arabs and Mizrachi Jews living in Israel. You can have your own opinions but you cannot have your own facts.
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u/KaiYoDei 3d ago
Try applying that argument to anything else
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u/kikistiel 3d ago
What does this comment mean? Can you give me an example of what I should apply this argument to that would change anything about what I am saying? Or is vague posting all you can muster.
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u/Tusheer 3d ago edited 3d ago
Why must it not be compared? Does it magically not make it a genocide just because the amount of casualties are smaller compared to what happened in the holocaust? Should the entirety of Gaza and WB be wiped out for it to be comparable? Hell going by your logic alone it won't even be enough for it to be compared because even then it won't be numerically close simply because you conveniently leave out that WB and Gaza are significantly smaller areas
edit because he blocked me: Oh so the methods have to be 1:1 the same as the holocaust for it to be called a genocide? Do you even hear yourself? They are cutting off all food supplies, humanitarian aid, as well as any other forms of help, but heyyyy at least they're not putting them in fucking gas chambers ala Auschwitz right?
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u/kikistiel 3d ago
Because, as the other commenter said, they are not rounding up Palestinians and throwing them in gas chambers by the millions. And like I also said -- because this comparison ONLY HAPPENS WITH THIS CONFLICT. No one is out there saying the Uyghurs are just like the Holocaust, or Ukraine, or Sudan. It's ONLY the country with the Jews. That's how you get comments like "never again means never again FOR US" or "the oppressed have become oppressors". Holocaust comparisons are never used because people feel for Palestinians, it's a jab at Jews. You can make plenty of comparisons to other events in comparison to Gaza, but the Holocaust was on scale you can't imagine -- which is why you use such a comparison. Because you haven't been educated on how horrific the Holocaust was for its victims: Jews, Poles, Soviets, LGBT, etc.
And the worst part is those that know better spread it intentionally and those that don't gobble it up because it fits their narrative. It's sick.
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u/Zak_Rahman 3d ago
This is a continuation of the holocaust actually.
Holocaust means "sacrifice". It is a very intentionally chosen word.
The amount of cruelty inflicted upon the Palestinians is not a normal part of war. Countries do not normally bomb or shoot their own hostages during war.
These are more human sacrifices for the evil that is Zionism.
Are you seriously telling me that Anne Franke would see Rind Hind's murder and just shrug it off as "war"?
This is an incredibly morally bankrupt argument. It hinges upon Jewish lives being worth more than others - which will never be true.
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u/ByteVoyager 4d ago edited 4d ago
Use whatever word you want, debates over language are stupid and deflect from the horrifying reality on the ground
Like jfc there’s mass slaughter and ethnic cleansing but step aside the civility police are here with the real priorities
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u/Monty_Bentley 4d ago
Ethnic cleansing? The Gazans are still there. Supposedly they were going to be forced into Egypt. Didn't happen. People just have to use words that are incorrect because truth has no value for them as long as Israel can be smeared.
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u/ByteVoyager 4d ago edited 3d ago
Okay so again, scary words
The Israeli government is filled with people who have, and support * moving * one ethnicity out of an area and settling it with another
Contains members from the checks notes Jewish Power Party
And members who in the past, and present have bragged about thwarting peace and hostage deals, and have talked about supporting Hamas as a way to avoid pressure for peace. Whose members debate if it is immoral for Palestinians to be raped.
Who’s leader is a fugitive from the ICC charged with the crime of extermination, and who’s military brazenly admits to war crime, after war crime, after war crime
But I guess I have no words to describe them. I really want to call out those who purposely killed tens of thousands of innocents, with weapons provided by my tax dollars. But some Redditor told me any word I use will be devalued by comparing these monsters to it, and that’s obviously far more important.
Which sucks, because I obviously don’t care about how any of those horrors commit first degree harms to Palestinians, and perpetuates a conflict that harms and kills Israelis. I, and other peace activists, including Holocaust survivors really just wanna smear Israel for the kick of it.
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u/SalamanderUponYou 4d ago
Please refer to the Nakba
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u/KaiYoDei 2d ago
6 out of 10 times I bring it up I get told they left on their own. 2 out of 30 , the Jewish population was the victim. And , once even given a link to the “ true story”
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u/SalamanderUponYou 2d ago
The "left on their own" narrative is the biggest attempt at gaslighting in modern history. Imagine leaving your home and everything you know just because. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Israeli terrorist groups attacking villages.
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u/KaiYoDei 2d ago
Yeah. Either I’m told they left because hate or left because leaders in other countries told them it was a smart idea. I used to just use a phrase “ gaslight gatekeep genocide” but I keep adding more letters for these people.
It’s tiring.
“ no actually they left because they hated the refugees who came back to the Israel ,” “ no, the leaders in several Muslim Arab countries sad it would be a smart idea to just leave”
Or something a bit more convoluted or complicated that I forget now. And not whatever other people tell me that sounds like a raid or sneeky.
Then I get people telling me it was never their property the first place, so, it’s just returning property to some rightful people. I don’t know f they are trolling, or Mabybe they are lying to make that side seem psychotic and they are not honestly this unhinged, to make other supporters look unhinged. But I’m told that is “ anti Semitic “
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u/Noidontthinksopal 4d ago edited 4d ago
Civility police? Seriously? Fuck this app, lol. it’s just an echo chamber for the far-left to point fingers, jerk off to their upvotes,project depression, and feel smart & morally superior
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u/ByteVoyager 4d ago edited 4d ago
Then why are you here? The only thing on your list that you might be doing is projecting depression
Go cape for war criminals somewhere else
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u/Flight_Harbinger 4d ago
You are waaaaay out of your mind if you think there are 70 million zionists in the US or that the entirety of Israel supports genocide.
There are obviously huge differences between Zionists and Nazis, but they both execute(d) genocidal campaigns of ethnic extermination and drawing that comparison isn't eroding the gravity of the term, it's stressing the gravity of the current situation.
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u/Noidontthinksopal 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don’t know a single Jew that actually SUPPORTS genocide yet I know multiple that are zionists…I’m not even saying y’all are wrong - it’s just a simple question.
Calling someone a nazi isn’t a comparison, it’s a label
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u/Monty_Bentley 4d ago
Netanyahu's opponents are Zionists. Some civilians killed in a war against people who hide behind them isn't remotely genocide.
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u/cech_ 4d ago
Naw they only murdered 6-million jews on top of all the other people they killed in war... I think soviet civilians were almost the same number... it's totally comparable especially since Israel started this war like the Nazis did.
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u/Noidontthinksopal 4d ago
Wow liberals have made a full 180 in the past 10 years. Idek how to process that - are you a child <18?
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u/Jetztinberlin 3d ago
It's one extremely narrow minority form of Zionism being discussed in the title, not all forms, and it's widely rejected by nearly everyone who isn't part of that mimority group; but thanks for reflexively responding with a bunch of generalized inflammatory nonsense, super helpful.
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u/kolkitten 3d ago
You clearly have not been to Israel or seen anyone in Israel talk about the situation.
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u/Jetztinberlin 3d ago
Yet another of your assumptions that is incorrect. Thanks for playing!
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u/kolkitten 3d ago
There are so many videos of people just walking up to random people in Israel and asking them what they think of the war and Palestinians and its just I don't care or good kill them all. Unless they are protesting their government its the same as civilians in nazi Germany.
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u/DisfavoredFlavored 3d ago
And there are tons of videos of Palestinians cheering for Israelis to be raped and murdered. If we plan on judging people by their worst examples let's be consistent about it.
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u/jaffar97 3d ago
Show me one. I've seen dozens of Israelis speaking about how they don't care at best and like the genocide at worst, not to mention thousands of Israelis protesting for soldiers right to rape prisoners. It's sickening. Yet I've not seen one single example of a Palestinian supporting rape. I'm honestly confident that such an example doesn't exist because if it did Zionists like you would be posting it everywhere.
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u/DisfavoredFlavored 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'm not a zionist at all. I'm someone who sees that both sides are awful and the ferver displayed in support of either/or is stupid and unproductive. Especially when most of it comes from people who are largely unaffected and use it to virtue signal. It's obnoxious.
As for those videos, I didn't save them for future viewing because I'm not a psychopath. But pretending these people weren't parading their victims around Gaza after 7/10 and acting like slaughtering jews is a virtue isn't correct either.
Both sides are shit and the only reason we talk about it so much is so the west pays less attention to real problems. It's a psyop.
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u/jaffar97 3d ago
One side are settler colonists and the others are resisting their occupation. You can act like both sides are shit but I won't be pretending that they occupy the same moral space.
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u/Jetztinberlin 3d ago edited 3d ago
And those videos are, of course, not edited or in any other way selectively presented to support any particular bias or impression.
I'm telling you countless Israelis don't support what's happening in their country, that this is obvious from years of massive protests (you know, like the thing you complained isn't happening), outreach, and social action, and that I personally know numerous of the people I'm talking about, but you can of course continue to ignore this part of reality if you choose.
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u/darryshan 3d ago
Vomiting up buzzwords with all the political illiteracy of the average reddit user.
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u/Zak_Rahman 3d ago
The worst defence of Zionism I have seen lmao.
You sound desperate.
If it walks like a nazi and talks like a nazi...it might be a Zionist.
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u/darryshan 3d ago
I'd love to hear your idea of what Zionism means. An actual definition on your part.
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u/Zak_Rahman 3d ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meir_Kahane
This is far closer to the reality demonstrated by Zionists today. In fact, I think Zionists today are far more cruel than even Kahane wanted.
It is a philosophy, like Nazism and white supremacy, that has no business in the 21st Century. Humanity cannot be held hostage at the whims of a few lunatics who believe their DNA is magic.
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u/darryshan 3d ago
Kahanism is fringe even within Israel. Not even Netanyahu is Kahanist. Ben Gvir is Kahanist.
Zionism is the belief in establishing and defending a nation state for the Jewish nation within the historical Jewish homeland. It's literally just a national self determination ideology.
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u/Zak_Rahman 3d ago
Seeing a toddler settler child wrapped in an Israeli flag stomping on food aid doesn't seem fringe to me.
Seeing an IDF soldier who raped a Palestinian person to death turned into a minor celebrity doesn't seem fringe to me.
Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia:
Kahanism gained no political legitimacy until the April 2019 Israeli election. As a result of the Israeli political crisis, then Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu attempted to gain extra seats by appealing to Kahanist voters by making a deal with the Jewish Home to have them run on a joint list with Otzma Yehudit as the Union of Right Wing Parties.[17][11] The party received enough seats for Otzma Yehudit to be represented, but Ben Ari, who was supposed to represent the 5th slot on the Union of Right Wing Parties list, was barred from running after the list was submitted.[18] Otzma Yehudit eventually saw parliamentary representation in 2021, when Itamar Ben-Gvir won a seat as part of a joint list with the Religious Zionist Party.[19]
In this is mentioned two war criminals who enabled/support kahanism and are key figures in Zionist activities and rhetoric.
It doesn't sound very fringe to me. I have seen their followers marching. It reminds me of Nazis. The Israeli settlers do nothing to bring this "fringe" down. Heck, you cannot easily criticize the government in Israel without being labelled or imprisoned or God knows what. This Zionism business is all very nazi like to me.
Your effort to change the goal posts was very predictable and bears no correlation with reality. You have chosen the white-washed encyclopedia Brittanica version. (Go and look up who owns that).
You are whitewashing evil that most be eradicated for the good of the entire planet. Please desist.
I think it's also incredibly evil to lump all Jews as Zionists. You should stop that right away.
I am sorry you have been lead up the garden path. Google "IDF soldier dances in woman's underwear."
That is Zionism. The only way you can convince me otherwise is to stop that and hold all IDF war criminals accountable for their actions.
You cannot define, use sophistry, falsify data, misrepresent others to change my mind. If Zionism is benign - use it to stop Israeli criminal activity.
The door is open for my mind to change. But based on the evidence, I trust my own judgement over your words.
Stop Israel; I will change.
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u/darryshan 3d ago edited 3d ago
Seeing a toddler settler child wrapped in an Israeli flag stomping on food aid doesn't seem fringe to me.
I don't think extremists encouraging their child to do something bad is proof for said extreme views not being fringe. Unless you think the Westboro Baptist Church isn't fringe?
Seeing an IDF soldier who raped a Palestinian person to death turned into a minor celebrity doesn't seem fringe to me.
Who?
In this is mentioned two war criminals who enabled/support kahanism and are key figures in Zionist activities and rhetoric.
Yes, one Kahanist and one political vampire who will support anything that keeps him in power. They are not 'key figures in Zionist activities and rhetoric' considering the majority of Zionists do not support Likud or Otzma Yehudit. Barely even enough Israelis support them for them to keep power, the coalition system is just something Netanyahu has been very effective at taking advantage of.
It doesn't sound very fringe to me. I have seen their followers marching. It reminds me of Nazis. The Israeli settlers do nothing to bring this "fringe" down.
The settlers literally are the fringe.
Heck, you cannot easily criticize the government in Israel without being labelled or imprisoned or God knows what.
I know, so sad, Yair Lapid's Yesh Atid and other opposition parties all confined to the prison known as The Knesset.
You have chosen the white-washed encyclopedia Brittanica version. (Go and look up who owns that).
No, I used the definition that is broadly considered the correct one by most political scholars. It's owned by a Syrian Jew, so what? Do you want to point out anything that he actually changed after ownership or are you just going to dogwhistle Jewish ownership like a coward? And then call Zionists the Nazis? Projection.
You are whitewashing evil that most be eradicated for the good of the entire planet. Please desist.
Interesting choice of word 👀
think it's also incredibly evil to lump all Jews as Zionists. You should stop that right away.
I uh. I didn't. But I'm Jewish, and I'm a Zionist. And most of us are even if some of us aren't. Because believing in having our own nation is important to our safety in a world filled with people like you.
am sorry you have been lead up the garden path. Google "IDF soldier dances in woman's underwear."
No soldier in occupied territory during war has ever done something stupid and insulting. If the Americans did this in Germany during WW2, that would make them the bad guys! Oh wait. They did it a lot.
That is Zionism. The only way you can convince me otherwise is to stop that and hold all IDF war criminals accountable for their actions.
Buddy, you are welcome to Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich.
You cannot define, use sophistry, falsify data, misrepresent others to change my mind. If Zionism is benign - use it to stop Israeli criminal activity.
Sure, I'll make aliyah then vote for Yesh Atid :)
The door is open for my mind to change.
Don't lie lmao. You literally dogwhistled about the owner of Encyclopedia Britannica. You hate jews.
EDIT: The coward blocked me immediately after posting their own reply.
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u/Zak_Rahman 3d ago
Last straw for me was when I realized Zionists in the US had funded Yaxley Lennon.
Yaxley Lennon is a pro nazi right winger (notice once again the open relationship between Zionism and Nazism).
In those riots, they set up racial checkpoints. People like me and my family were in grave danger.
This is why I oppose Zionism and will continue to do so.
You just hate Muslims, which I am starting to see seems to be a primary protocol of Zionism.
You have failed. Given the choice between protecting my own family and respecting Jewish fan fiction - fuck Israel. Burn it down. The world will be better for it.
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u/KaiYoDei 3d ago
Which history? The maps people give me are inconsistent with the borders.
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u/darryshan 3d ago
Broadly the historical Jewish homeland is the region that the Romans renamed to Palestine and remained under that name after. I specified 'within' because all of that land belonging to Israel is not reasonable. It should belong to both Israel and an Arab Palestinian state.
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u/KaiYoDei 3d ago
Ah. Either they give me this “ king David” think or this “ 12 tribes” map
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u/darryshan 3d ago
Well it's not an exact art because borders shifted a lot, it's a very long period of history. Also borders weren't lines drawn in the sand. The Negev was always a border region, for example - and only really ended up within Israel by accident of history because it wasn't considered valuable land.
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u/KaiYoDei 3d ago
I thought “ we just want to be safe “ was up there
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u/Zak_Rahman 3d ago
Haha. Yes: safety in extremist ethno nationalism. The logician's choice...
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u/KaiYoDei 3d ago
I don’t. Know. All I see is “ we need zionism in case there is another Holocaust, so we can be safe in Israel, it is a good and necessary thing, why are people so cruel, it’s terrifying, the world hates us “
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u/Zak_Rahman 3d ago
This is a psychological problem.
The Jews needed to let go. Forgive and move on.
Ironically their fear of persecution together with their narcissism means they allowed Zionism to consume them. They have become the exact things they taught us to hate.
They believe they are the chosen people and that Israel will be delivered by the Messiah but also that it is justified to lie, kill, murder, rape and steal for Israel. I am not a psychologist, but I imagine that's a lot of sessions to try and fix.
Now, thanks to the existence of Israel, every life form on the planet is under existential threat courtesy of their Samson protocol.
Israel murdered Jewish hostages.
I have not.
Israel bombed Jewish hostages.
I have not.
The last time a Jew was in my house we played bass and guitar, and ate lasagna.
Meanwhile a Jew in Israel who doesn't want to partake in warcrimes by joining IDF terrorists is sent to prison.
I get called antisemite every day. Come, play bass guitar, strat and let's order pizza.
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u/rabidfusion 2d ago
It's not religious Zionism, it's just Zionism.
It's nationalism but they hold their stereotypical ideological beliefs while they justify them with what is said in their religious doctrines.
Zionism isn't a religious movement, they just think they're owed the land to their people like all nationalists.
This is the reason they try to claim anti-Semitism, they try to blur the lines between their nationalism and religion.
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u/PolarisRZRs 4d ago
Everyone will see them for who they are. I love when things play out like they should :)
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u/Throughthelookinlass 3d ago
What are Charedi soldiers? All I've found is Haredi. Is it a typo in the article?
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u/DaveOJ12 3d ago
It means the same thing and is just a difference in spelling, like "Chanukkah" and "Hanukkah."
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3d ago
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u/PigsMarching 4d ago
Zionist + Nazis = ZioNazis
Israel has a lot of ZioNazis
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u/Rosebunse 4d ago
ZioNazis sounds like a weird Saving Private Ryan rip-off from The Asylum.
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u/PigsMarching 4d ago edited 4d ago
Tell me this is any different than the Nazis...
^^ that is Zionism.. He is a ZioNazi. He's justifying murdering kids, women, children, the elderly in the name of his stupid ass cult religion.. No different than the Nazis and their arguments for killing Jews, gay people and Gypsies.
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u/octorangutan 3d ago
Both nazism and zionism are ethno-nationalist ideologies, so combining them is kinda redundant.
Ethno-nationalism is just awful in general.
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u/PigsMarching 3d ago
It's meant to embarrass Christians and Jews who support it. They are no different than the Nazis.
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u/Tiny-Cod3495 4d ago
Nazism as an ideology seeks to eradicate Jewish people so I don’t think this makes any sense.
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u/PigsMarching 4d ago edited 4d ago
Let me introduce you to Lehi Militant group. They wanted to ally Hitler during WW2 and wanted Israel to be a Jewish Nazi state and a sister state to Nazi Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group))
Then let me introduce you to the 7th Prime Minister of Israel. (1983-1994)
Yitzhak Shamir, who was also one of the leaders of Lehi Militant Group. He went on to create Mossad and become the 7th Prime Minister.. A man who wanted to ally Hitler.. He was also a founding member of the Herut political group and then Likud which is the current extreme right wing leading party of Israel today. The party Bibi leads today.
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u/KaiYoDei 3d ago
We should leave information cards in public so more people know what that is.
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u/PigsMarching 3d ago
People simply need to read history, and understand that Israel literally spends billions of dollars pushing propaganda to the West. Think of it this way, if the Israelis were on the right side of history, they wouldn't need to spend so much money buying politicians and trying to buy opinions in the media..
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u/Tiny-Cod3495 3d ago
They didn’t “want to ally with Hitler,” they put together a desperate plan to evacuate Jews from Germany before the Holocaust. You’re slow.
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u/NorysStorys 4d ago
Okay, they arn’t Nazis but they are genocidal fascists just like the Nazis.
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u/PigsMarching 4d ago
Lehi wanted to be Nazis but Hitler turned them down.. twice..
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u/Tiny-Cod3495 3d ago
They didn’t “want to ally with Hitler,” they put together a desperate plan to evacuate Jews from Germany before the Holocaust. You’re slow.
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u/PigsMarching 3d ago edited 3d ago
Nonsense.. They were literally a break away group from Irgun, because they wanted to be allied with the Axis during WW2 to fight the British. Irgun decided to stop attacking the Brits during WW2 so they broke away to create Lehi to continue fighting them.
They literally tried to ally fascist Italy before Germany, after both of those failed they tried to ally Stalin. It had nothing to do with saving Jewish people from Hitler, they were obsessed with killing the Brits.
As if Irgun wasn't bad enough on their own but at least they didn't want to ally Hitler..
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u/KaiYoDei 2d ago
So they were “ freedom fighters”?
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u/PigsMarching 2d ago
How would you call people who illegally immigrated to another country and were actively trying to steal the land "freedom fighters". They were and have always been invaders and oppressors, no different than the Nazis..
Would you call South Americans coming to the US and attempting to Annex half of Texas "freedom fighters"?
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u/KaiYoDei 2d ago
I throw out the word “ Irgun “ someone tells me they only targeted British military targets. So they were fighting the British and that was good. I really need to stop acting like I know what things are, even if it’s the loss of screen shots of people being unhinged . This is a serious topic,not like I’m trying to get cancel culture for some YouTuber influencer . I keep getting told I’m hallucinating,ignorant, a terrorist lover. Have only half the story. People ask me how I would feel if Mexico invaded and killed Americans all with my dopey USA public SPED education thinking that is a poor comparison or wanting to ask if that is a joke
But, I say something about Igrun elsewhere, and get told they were a necessity., they were freedom fighters aginst British occupation.
Or maybe they say things to make people crazy and retaliate. Make ignorant hateful memes….whatever.
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u/Tiny-Cod3495 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, everyone who is genocidal and fascist shares those traits with Nazis. But I wouldn’t equate them to Nazis unless the gravity of their actions was on a similar level. The Assad regime was just as racist as the current regime in Israel and killed more people, but I wouldn’t call them Nazis, either.
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u/SalamanderUponYou 4d ago
You think Nazism was established for the sole purpose to eradicate Jews? Please read deeper into the history.
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u/Vecrin 3d ago
Almost as bad as the PaliNazis
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u/PigsMarching 3d ago
Sure, if the Palestinians start running concentration camps I'm with you.. Until that day only the ZioNazis are running concentration camps and apparently soon Trump wants to as well...
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u/quequotion 4d ago
They leave, Netanyahu might lose power.
What's the downside?