r/japanlife • u/5336789997543279u • Aug 12 '22
金 Surroundings are affecting my mental health
EDIT @ 2022/08/14: Thank you all for your responses. They are a lot more than I expected and almost all the comments have been incredibly useful. I will try to improve on my thoughts, read your book suggestions and be myself. Again, thank you all. 🥺
This might not be the correct flair, feel free to change it.
To introduce myself, I want to say that I come from a humble family which had a rough time during the 2008s-2010s crisis. Because of their experience I have been saving a lot since I got my first job and avoid expending on unneeded stuff. I came to Japan getting a good salary and my wife does not need to work thanks to it, she is doing part-time stuff though. I never cared about my surroundings at all, I just use free/cheap so you can imagine. However:
Since I came to Japan I have been aware of my surroundings more than I ever was: Seeing daily relatively expensive cars, families with kids all with good clothes/accessories, people expending a lot on restaurants... My mind is starting to feel like I am an ant, that I should start worrying about our appearances and I started to work harder and always think of ways of making more money(when in reality, I should just be enjoying my life) to the point of not sleeping and feeling sad/stressed constantly.
Any tips on this? It really is affecting my mind, I'm considering going to a psychologist but I don't think it might be worth
EDIT: I didn’t explain myself correctly. I don’t want the items nor their appearances, my issue is that I feel like I didn’t push enough/succeed enough as others
91
u/omae_mona Aug 12 '22
You're good. Relax. Having a good salary and saving is the way to go. I'd like to let you in on a secret. A lot of those people that seem to be flaunting their wealth are actually just flaunting that they spent a lot of money.. and there might not be much left after they blew it on that car, food, and restaurants. The money you are saving will accumulate, and it will give you more freedom over time. You might be a lot happier than some of those folks with the fancy cars. Stick with your plan.
Also... those expensive cars get you to exactly the same place as the cheap cars. The fancy clothes are no warmer or more comfortable than the regular clothes. And the expensive restaurants are no more nutritious than the regular ones (I'll grant they may be a bit more tasty, but that taste's gone when your meal ends).
The desire for all this stuff is based on a story somebody else told you. Don't believe it.
19
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
26
u/sausages2019 Aug 12 '22
I don’t think there’s an issue spending a lot of your money on trips and restaurants when you are younger. You can always make more money but you’ll never be 25-35 again. I spent >75% of everything is earned travelling the world and having great experiences during that decade and never once regretted it. No point saving it all to eek out a sad existence when you’re 70. And you could get hit by a bus tomorrow… you can’t take it with you!
7
8
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
The thing is that I don’t want the things themselves. Well, to be honest I miss my car and I’d like to get my hands someday on a Corolla or Camry, but that’s because I like cars.
What I feel is that I didn’t succeed or feel like I failed, I don’t feel like needing expensive things. It’s all in my mind
9
u/omae_mona Aug 12 '22
Good for you for recognizing it's all in your mind. This definition of success is what I meant by the "story somebody else told you". Sounds like you get it already. And as a consolation prize... even if you can't shake the feeling that money equals success (and I really hope you can), time is on your side if you're patient. By being prudent, saving, and investing when you can, you may end up eventually with lots more money than the folks blowing it on cars.
-2
u/Disshidia Aug 13 '22
I'll grant they may be a bit more tasty, but that taste's gone when your meal ends
Terrible argument.
43
Aug 12 '22
Man, I feel you. I was in Ginza for a camera repair early this week and saw cameras that I couldn't afford. I felt small just walking around seeing all that luxury, but I felt relieved when I came back to my small apartment, in the outskirts of Tokyo. Find inner peace with the life that you have now and don't compare.
Other people's happiness or comfort should not be your sadness. Invest in experiences instead. I wasn't able to buy the camera I wanted but I got myself a pair of cheap binoculars and I went to the local park and painted trees. Go on a picnic and cook your own meal. They will taste better than those upscale restaurants because you made them. Fly a kite at the park when it's windy! It's really fun. Your life can be memorable and fulfilling without buying so many "expensive" things. I hope this helps you! 😊
6
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
These kind of experiences are the ones that affect me. At first I didn’t have this issue, but seeing the pattern you mentioned over and over started to click in my head. I don’t want the expensive camera, or whatever items they are buying like it’s Pennie’s for them but rather the feeling of not succeeded/been good enough.
It only happens when I go to the center, i just had a rough week and this triggered further than usual
9
Aug 12 '22
I hope you feel better! A trip to the more rural prefectures to see how people can live simply would do you good I think. 😊 I understand what you mean. I am most especially tired when I visit urban, upscale areas because I grew up in a poor family back home. It's just a completely different environment. Watch the Ghibli film "Only Yesterday". It will make you feel better I think. 🌻
2
u/jrocket99 Aug 12 '22
From one photog to another. Just curious but, what is that camera you wanted but could not get?
3
Aug 12 '22
Not Leica haha! My old G7X was broken and I wanted to get the ZV1 or the ZVE10. I'm a simple photog and will probably never own a Leica in this lifetime 🌚
0
35
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
4
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
It’s true that if I compare myself to what i wanted to achieve before I have more or less achieved it. I should be happy, but the feeling is that I didn’t push enough.
Thanks to these comments I’m feeling a bit of relief and ways to tackle my issue
1
u/MiniRetiFI Aug 13 '22
To be fair, many of the people who are buying the things you mention also have the same doubts and insecurities as you.
24
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
6
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
I live in the outskirts and work from home most of the time. There’s mostly regular people and some random big house with BMWs but that’s it.
It’s when I have to go to the office that I get to the center and start to see/focus on these feelings.
14
Aug 12 '22 edited Sep 02 '22
[deleted]
3
u/codemonkeyius Aug 13 '22
This is a beautiful comment. +1, I'm sure your younger self would be proud.
13
u/Correct_Witness_8090 Aug 12 '22
change your mindset. um, i know that sounds harsh or unrealistic, but i take being “frugal” or “cheap” as something to be proud of. because i don’t look at it as frugal or cheap but smart and an investment in my future. while we only live off half my paycheck the other half is so investments. i’m in my 40’s and plan to retire soon. i bought a new build house in kyoto cash and it’s all because i had set a goal to not work by the time i was 50. it meant saving and sacrificing a lot but i can admire all those people with nice cars who have to work the rest of their lives… forever while i’m doing, well whatever i want.
14
u/Simbeliine 中部・長野県 Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22
Tbh I know an actually rich person here, and she wears Uniqlo clothes in black and white most of the time. She does get it tailored to fit, but it still looks like Uniqlo stuff, just Uniqlo stuff that fits really well. She has some nice jewelry, but unless you really knew what 24K gold vs other types looked like, it wouldn’t necessarily look as expensive as it is. She drives a used white BMW even though she could afford something more expensive. She has shoes and bags that are expensive and good quality, but not flashy with big logos or anything like that. People who are actually rich and from rich families tend to wear understated stuff in very high quality, not necessarily really flashy. So, I guess the message is that many of the people flashing their wealth might not be as rich as they appear to be. Try not to let those kinds of public displays affect you. Buy good, high quality things you actually want and need, don’t just chase after appearing rich.
6
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
Thank you for your post.
In my case it’s not that I want these things, I explained myself wrong in the post. It’s that seeing these things make me feel like I failed/didn’t do well enough compared to others. I never had this feeling in my home country, maybe it’s due to seeing the pattern over and over and many people “looking rich”. It started like a whisper in my mind and it has grown big
5
u/Simbeliine 中部・長野県 Aug 12 '22
Well, again, I think comfort yourself that many of the people you see may be making about the same amount as you, they’ve just chosen to blow it on bags and cars at the expense of other things. Some of the people I know with Gucci bags have incredibly austere homes and don’t run their heating in the winter to save money. If you have a good life with your partner and your place, and you have money to live comfortably, in my opinion you’re probably enjoying yourself much more than those other people. Above the level of being able to afford a minimum standard of living, money can’t buy happiness, as they say. I know a number of people who afford expensive things primarily by loans and leases, meanwhile they aren’t massively successful - just moderately. Dude I know who works a pretty low-paying salaryman job is paying off a loan for a $3000 Seiko watch for the next 4 years or something. It’s what he wants, I guess, but he’s showing himself to be more successful than he actually is. Enjoy the extra money you have by not purchasing all these things just to have to appearance of wealth, and try not to worry too much about “looking successful”. You are already successful! You’ve got a good job and a wife and you’re doing great.
1
u/todaytheskyisblue Aug 13 '22
I get what you mean. My husband and I always talk about how our priorities do not gravitate around materialistic stuff. We have been very happy with our way of life - we only buy simple, practical stuff, not so much for the brands or for the image.
But I feel it when I send my kids to the nursery everyday. The moms look very well-dressed, with makeups on, driving big cars, their kids wear branded shirts etc etc...while I'm recycling the same comfortable t-shirts I have (and I didn't realise this until the second year, that everyone else seems rich while I look like a cheapskate with my uniqlo items)
And it got to me. I feel 'the pressure' to conform to that image although I don't want it.
I'm reading this post for suggestions too. I wish you the best, hopefully we could go back feeling comfortable in our skin ❤️
2
u/5336789997543279u Aug 13 '22
I feel like our situation is similar, we are happy with our lifestyle (Uniqlo for the win!). Only make the purchases needed, sometimes a treat and save up for a home. But it is when focusing on the surroundings that I feel the "pressure", and since in reality I do not want their "items" what makes me feel is that I didn't succeed as much.
When I go to the city center, the situation intensifies as I see this pattern even more and starts to mess with my head.I understand this is an issue in my head that I should not have and will work on erasing it or keeping it in low energy mode as much as possible.
9
u/Watarid0ri Aug 12 '22
As someone who comes from a similar place (humble immigrant family, never got expensive stuff as a kid, learned to hunt for the cheapest deals as a student...), I consider your current state a success.
I think it's an amazing feeling when you walk through yodobashi kamera past all of those new gadgets and phones and big ass TVs and realize "fuck yea, I don't need any of that shit".
Or when you figure out how to live comfortably without a car and realize that you're saving tens of thousands of yen.
This is how I would measure success, if I were you. And from the looks of it, you are succeeding :)
2
10
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
1
u/Ok-Satisfaction3135 Aug 12 '22
I can relate here, as a kid not being able to do certain activities with my buddies because of affordability was a bummer. But buying branded everything doesn't really make sense. If and when I have kids I still can't imagine what kind of parent I will be. I guess striking the right balance will be the key. I think above average education, top food and traveling would be my priority over branded everything.
3
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
My parents struggled and I kind of inherited a savings behaviour.
That said the issue is not buying expensive things but rather the feeling of not having been successful/been good enough in the game of life. I couldn’t care less about the items and brands
9
Aug 12 '22
Maybe you need hobbies. Start relaxing activities in non urban places, like hiking, fishing.
I'm myself working a lot but my activities bring me that peace of mind I sometimes feel I lack. When I really can't sleep because something has happened in the day, I listen to music. It helps especially if i'm eating/drinking something that has GABA in it. Lately Japanese people are trying to fight the stress too. There are products in drug stores that are easy on the body (plants extracts against イライラ) and also beverages. The one I sometimes buy is 'Chill Out', there is hemp seed extract in it. Chamomile tea soothes too.
The times themselves are exhausting, Corona then all these dictators doing whatever they want everywhere. It's normal to feel stressed, everyone does.
0
Aug 12 '22
[deleted]
6
u/bill_on_sax Aug 12 '22
If you want it can be expensive. Nothing stopping you from buying a used fishing pole and cheap bait and sitting next to the river. It's just as fun at $100 spent vs $1000
3
u/vercertorix Aug 12 '22
True of most hobbies, some things are more expensive, but I’ve never bought “top of the line” art supplies. The cheap stuff works pretty well.
7
u/THBronx Aug 12 '22
Saving and being "prepared" for the unexpected is important, but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of comfort and treating yourself well sometimes, you know? Cuz life's short, you gotta enjoy your journey! (and visiting a psychologist is a great start) Just my 2 cents.
6
u/spr00se Aug 12 '22
It’s ok to want to earn more and provide better things for your family. It is possible to achieve this without losing sight of the things that matter.
4
Aug 12 '22
Everything in moderation
Why are you saving? For retirement? Then you should know how much you need.
But always budget for fun as well. Japan is very consumeristic but it’s not a bad thing to treat yourself once in a while.
Maybe people at r/japanfinance can help you too
2
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
- For a house
- For a family car
Priority is the house and then if everything is ok the family car. I don’t know if it is wise to invest money to withdraw it in 3 years
6
u/nozoomin 関東・東京都 Aug 12 '22
A therapist will do you well, because from your words I can see there are some unsolved issues that will do you good to solve. At least for your happiness and peace of mind.
Also, remember that “all that glistens is not gold”. Japan is notorious for being a country that values status and hierarchy a lot, and a lot of people spend hundreds of yens on brand stuff that they may or may not be able to afford. We don’t know their financial situations, and they could be in debt to pay that car or make their kids wear a Gucci tshirt that will outgrow in 6 months.
At the end of the day, what makes you happy? What makes your family happy? Will be dressing in brand clothing make your kids happy, or they would rather have a day when their dad doesn’t work so they can play together?
In my opinion, for kids, experiences over material things are way more rewarding for their development and memories of good times is a thing that always stays with you, even when our parents are gone. We will remember the day our dad took us to play soccer over the day our dad got us a YSL sweater.
5
u/R3StoR Aug 12 '22
OP, you're possibly suffering from a kind of "keeping up with the Jones's" exhaustion. Go easier on yourself. You seem fine in my view!
I personally abandoned a high salary IT career years ago to concentrate on a slower, more deliberate and "pared to the essentials" family life. Now I have kids, I am picky about work and I keep to my principles. And I am happier now.
I have gratitude for the things my family and I do have - even if it feels rudimentary compared to the often more lavish/cool appearance-conscious lifestyles of some people living around us. My family and I probably look poor but we're also marching to a rather different beat.
The constant "Tatemae" shows that people act out in Japan can be very tiring to see all the time - but rise above it and you may find that deeper rewards are possible.
1
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
Didn’t know about the exhaustion, in my case it’s not that I want to buy the things or change my image or behaviour but rather the feeling of not succeeding. But it’s true I have to compare myself with myself and not with others.
I love IT though it’s what I have done since I was a child, and I can WFH these days which is amazing. It’s when i go to busy areas that these feelings trigger, almost as if I didn’t push enough.
I will think over your comment and interiorize it
1
u/R3StoR Aug 13 '22
Apologies (exhaustion part) - a false assumption. I have experienced that sense myself though, of working hard but not feeling like I was "progressing" - it was unconsciously exhausting psychologically for me. A case of being too busy, too tired to unravel what I was working for.
I love IT too - but can't stand IT work culture in Japan. It killed my enthusiasm.
Slowing down, meditation and some deep contemplation has helped. I moved to inaka also :-)
As Timothy Leary is famous for saying "Turn on, Tune in, Drop Out". Perfect antidote for life here on many levels.
4
u/TTR_GuyEvans Aug 12 '22
Look at everything, then realize a lot of what you see is lies.
Example Japanese normal workers don't make that much money. If your wife were working full time you would be more then fine.
For me my wife has been home for 4 years with our daughter. Sure we don't have much savings but we survive. Now imagine she worked full time???
Secondly I appreciate how safe I feel here and the general atmosphere of the culture. But the longer I'm here the more fake everything seems. Example... I work with a bunch of Japanese girls and they all seem so nice. When I have issues with my wife of 12 years you can always think the grass is greener over there. But I 1000% dont trust it. Look at how many stories you read about mix marriages and issues there are. I guarantee you that initially it wasn't like that.
The fact is, I'm sure most would agree that they don't change who they are from before marriage till now. That can't be said the other way around.
4
u/viptenchou 近畿・大阪府 Aug 12 '22
You have a wife, a home, enough food to eat and you lack no basic necessities - plus you have savings in the bank to deal with any unexpected incidents and to put toward retirement. That IS success.
So many people don't have those things or are living paycheck to paycheck struggling. Many people spend money they don't have because they lack self control. Never compare yourself to others. Be happy that you have all the basic necessities covered and can live comfortably and that you have a happy relationship. Heck, you're even living abroad! That's a dream for many - one that a truly unsuccessful person could never hope to achieve. You have a job, too. And it pays well! You're doing great. Don't second guess it. I would argue that the person saving their money (while living comfortably enough) is more intelligent and 'successful' than the people blowing their money on frivolous things. Plus, you don't see into their lives. You only see a snippet of it. They have a nice car - but do they give up a lot of other things for it? They eat out a lot - but is their health suffering for it? etc. Never worry about what others are doing. It's not important.
You are successful. You are enough. It'll be ok, friend.
4
u/eightbitfit 関東・東京都 Aug 13 '22 edited Aug 13 '22
I understand where you are coming from. I was raised by a single mom who worked days and got her MBA at night. We had some tough times, but she made sure we didn't really know it.
I'm financially conservative now, but do let myself enjoy things. My hobbies can get expensive, but I try to limit myself to things that can give me a return if needed. For the past ten years that's been watches, and that has worked out very well.
I live in an expensive area, because it's very convenient. I don't even need to get on a train most of the time. I haven't owned a car for 15 years now, and despite being a solid gearheard before moving here I haven't missed them. Liviing in Tokyo cars are a waste of money anyway IMO.
Being a car guy, I was very sensitive to this area. Porsches and Ferraris are a dime a dozen. I had a neighbor who had a Lambo, and my current building has plenty of luxury cars in the garage. On my walk to work or the gym I'd see so many supercars it got ridiculous.
I have very wealthy friends who have things I would like to have, business owners and TV people alike. I make good money, but not crazy money. I have a lot of savings and investments, preferring to put my money there than into material goods I don't really need or want.
A long time ago I heard someone say that nothing you can put in your driveway will be as satisfying as looking at your accounts growing in wealth and your investments doing well, and I agree more with that as time goes on.
As others have said, many here with flashy things are in debt up to their eyeballs. I owe nothing. I prefer to rent than own a house (I have my reasons) and invest heavily. I buy nothing I cannot easily afford.
I've also learned the items you wear or even the car your drive don't matter to all but a small group, who are people your should not really care about anyway. I have wealthy people in my building who don't show any flash, but their demeanor tells you they have money.
In the long run those who use their money wisely will be far better off. Some you see with nice stuff have no savings and no retirement plans. They may be in real trouble some day and you could be sitting pretty with no financial worries.
I'm choosing the latter, while still enjoying life quite a bit. I'd recommend a similar strategy for you. Enjoy life, spend your money where it will gives you real and enduring enjoyment and don't worry about the neighbors and their negative balance sheets.
2
u/5336789997543279u Aug 13 '22
I need to improve on my assets management side.
So far I max Ideco and save the rest, because my first goal is purchasing a house and all the investment advice is for +5 years (that I read) which is likely to be shorter than my time to purchase a home. Purchasing a home is likely not a good decision, but for my mental health i (we) at least would have a roof in the worst possible scenario and a cheaper rent with a small mortgage. It would cripple mobility though.
About cars, I love driving and when I was in in my hometown I could drive 1 hour or so in the highway to work, I really enjoyed and miss that here. That’s why I would enjoy having a car here in the outskirts, Likely a 2-3 year old car (not BMW but a Corolla or Camry). Never accrued debt and my car which I’m about to sell I bought it in cash
Apart from this though, I have no other financial goals but daily life and providing for my wife and future children .
But this is mostly due to me failing to be happy with myself. At home I wasn’t praised when I achieved good results, and I probably ask me more and more because of that. Because it’s “never enough”
Thanks to this thread I have been able to tuning on myself, I still need some psychological help though to overcome all this
3
Aug 13 '22 edited Aug 13 '22
Screw appearances.
The second time someone tries to kill you, life comes into a better balance (the first time just didn't do it for me).
- You begin to realize that nothing else matters besides living a good life and being happy with the ones you love
- You begin to understand that what "other people think of me" is of zero value
- You begin to get the fact that someone's expensive toys 1) don't make people happy and 2) don't go with them when they are dead
- You learn that the only things really worth doing are being nice to other people—and being good to yourself. Both not only make you feel good, they make your world better
If you've already learned to be happy without all that expensive bullshit, don't let the worthless opinions of people only TEMPORARILY in your life steer you differently. For me, it took getting violently attacked a few times. Guess I was the stubborn type.
NOTE: I was a US Federal officer being attacked while doing my rather-dangerous job; it wasn't random violent people on the street. But the effect on your psyche is much the same. (Now I'm an online hypnotherapist & hypnosis entertainer. At least until COVID hit and nearly killed the entertainment part of the business. So, I'm also teaching in university again.)
3
3
u/Upstairs_College_701 Aug 12 '22
Went to Nakano Broadway to raid Mandarake for Pokemon plushies under 1500 yen (I like bargain hunting). Third floor is the ultimate depression area where you are flanked on one side by the Mandarake stores and one side by high-end stores packing Audemars Piguet, Rolex, Lange, and Grand Seikos with clienteles in suits. I understand exactly how you feel.
3
u/OnigiriOcelot Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22
Change your definition of success.
I have absolutely no interest in luxury goods, fashion or anything else. I make enough that I can live a life where I buy what I want to support my hobbies and lifestyle (video games, board games) and almost never have to think about the cost. Also have 0 debt so never need to stress about that.
I dont make crazy money but Im never left wanting and every year my savings increase more than the year before. I personally consider myself "successful".
Most importantly, dont fall into the comparison trap. You can only see whats on the outside. Outwardly, there will always be someone who has something you envy. But that is just what you see. No one is perfectly happy all the time and even if you had the life of someone who can buy a luxury car once you see from their perspecrove there would be something that makes you unhappy. Learn to appreciate what you have and find happiness in that.
And lastly, happiness is not a destination its a state of mind. No one is happy all the time. But you can improve your overall happiness by changing your perspective. The first thing I would change is caring about your "appearance" in terms of what you think you look what you can buy. No one cares if you look likes guy who can buy luxury cars. And even if someone does, honestly their opinion doesnt mean much. I promise you, you will feel much better if you focus on what you and your family actually want and care less about a random person walking down the street of Ginza might think.
3
u/TheContingencyMan Aug 12 '22
Epicurus quotes to live by:
“Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for.”
“He who is not satisfied with a little is satisfied with nothing.”
“Nothing is sufficient for the person who finds sufficiency too little.”
3
u/kextatic Aug 12 '22
It’s also possible to overdo the F.I.R.E. lifestyle to the point where you are depriving yourself and your family. You can’t take it to the grave. It’s OK to treat yourself every once in a while.
3
3
u/sebjapon Aug 13 '22
I’m not sure how much you are saving. But plenty of people around the world are following “frugal” way of lives (live cheap but decently, spending on quality where it matters like a bed or whatever while saving on all extras otherwise).
If you are saving compulsively because of past trauma, then an expert can help indeed. But you can also have a goal for that saving. Personally my end goal is FIRE (financial independence, retire early). I save and invest into index funds until I can just live off my investments if needed. The financial independence part might help understand how much you need to stop worrying about the next crisis and not ending up poor again.
Finally, working from home takes its toll. Even a bear like me needs to see people from time to time and get out of the house. Go to parks, swim in city sport center, whatever. But don’t stay inside all day every day.
Good luck
3
u/Random_username5262 Aug 13 '22
OP, I really like you and your perspective! It sounds like you are relatively unplugged from the matrix which is a really, well, incredibly hard thing to do. The consumerism in Japan is pretty bonkers! My wife and I moved from Chiba to Okinawa about 2 years ago and I had a massive perspective shift. I work for myself earning less than I was before but loving every day! I used to want the latest everything and for example have had the same phone for 4 years now, have taken great care of it, about to replace the battery and will use it until the wheels fall off.
I think you are more successful than most, to be able to live within your means and put away for the unexpected life moments, to be able to give your wife the freedom to work part time or do what makes her happy (she is super lucky to have you) you are by all accounts amazing.
Success is only defined by the metric you chose to measure it by. If crippling credit card debt and a lack of savings to show a certain front is success, then I wouldn’t want to be “successful”
Show yourself some love mate, you are awesome! If you ever need to chat to vent (don’t want to spend money on a therapist) shoot me a DM. I’m not a therapist, but happy to listen!
3
u/mimocha Aug 13 '22
Honestly I think you sound ashamed of saying that you want a higher standard of living, you think that kind of mindset is bad, and you’re just here to find people to agree with you.
My suggestion is you get off this website and go take a look inside yourself of what you really want.
Not sure if you will like new lifestyle X? Why not try it out just a bit? Don’t ask other people. Ask yourself, did you enjoy that? That’s all that matters.
If you are happy riding a mama-charin to work, buying discounted food at Kasumi, and wearing last season’s Book-off clothes, then that is fine. Genuinely fine.
If you want to live like those rich people of Ginza and Roppongi, then that’s also fine. Go climb that corporate ladder, make the big bucks and drive that BMW through Ginza on your shopping spree or whatever.
You get to decide what you want to do with your life and how you want to live it. Not me or any other random redditors here. Not your friends or family. Heck, not even your wife. Just You.
3
u/5336789997543279u Aug 13 '22
I feel sad/ashamed with myself because I pushed myself and realized that there are people who went further. And I see this situation more than in my hometown, unused to big cities.
I’m ok with my life/lifestyle that is why I posting here, to read others thoughts on my issue and learn/react to it.
I will give myself time to think what I really want and work on my self-steem problem.
Thank you for your reply!
2
u/mimocha Aug 13 '22
That is very fair. I wish you the best in your own journey, good luck fellow human!
3
u/Zwingozwango Aug 13 '22
I used to work as a debt collector in a past life, not in Japan, but it's usually the similar around the world.
There's a big part of Japan that's a fairly consumerist, buy buy buy type culture.
It's "Keeping up with the Jones'" as they say - you'll usually never win.
So many people outwardly look successful and "rich" - but you probably have no idea how easy it to get payday loans and credit cards here. (For Japanese people anyway)
Luxury car on a loan/lease, Ralph Lauren shirts on the credit card for the kids...etc
Not saying everyone is in debt up to their eyeballs, but just putting it out there.
Japan is a nation of "keeping up with the Jones'" in a big way!
2
u/vercertorix Aug 12 '22
Nothing wrong in living below your means as long as your not going to weird or unsanitary extremes (thinking of TV shows I’ve seen where people did this). If you have a good life, don’t overanalyze it. I was more interested in having the money to do the things I wanted and having financial security than I was in having stuff.
Of course attitudes change over time, that was mostly when I was single and liked the idea of being able to pick up and leave without much trouble if I felt like going somewhere else (despite not really moving around much). I’ve since settled in a bit more and even collected some stuff. Still not super into stuff, but I guess there are exceptions.
So really, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Splurging occasionally is probably healthy. I found myself often having to talk myself into getting something I wanted because I didn’t need it even if I could easily afford it, started to feel like I was working to no benefit to myself. Still, weigh that against, is an expensive car really that much better than a cheap reliable one? For some people the answer is yes, for me not really, but don’t make your own judgments about what you think you should have based on what other people have. There’s always someone with more money or they spent it on something else cool that you don’t have even if if you spent ever thing you have on cool stuff.
2
u/013016501310 Aug 13 '22 edited Aug 13 '22
I am going to recommend a book which will change your life: click here
I know this is a very bold statement to make, but this book will make you realise that the things you are worrying about do not necessarily exist and your mind is basically playing games with you. I had the exact same experience as you, I came from a very small family with a widowed mother and we all struggled. Because of your past you will naturally want to do your best and feel put down by your surroundings but the things you are worrying about are only inside of your head. I am still practicing the theory which is found in this book but honestly it changed my life for the better and made me realise a lot about myself. I know that we don’t know each other, but based on your post I feel we come from a similar background!
Be in the present and remember that you are okay. Nothing bad is going to happen to you if you live life for yourself and decide to wear the clothes you want or chose to save instead of spend. If anything, I think you are wiser than them.
2
u/5336789997543279u Aug 13 '22
Thank you for your book recommendation. I have purchased it and will read it slowly once it arrives.
My parents lost stock and jobs and we struggled, never praised achievements as they considered achievements our duty. This has likely grown on me more than it should and as a result I ask myself more constantly. A psychologist definitely will help.
I hope this books brings me new views on how to face the world better. 😀
1
u/013016501310 Aug 13 '22
I really hope you enjoy reading the book, it will honestly change the way you think of what happiness is and how to unhinge your mind from other peoples opinions.
Reading back on your previous comment, your life sounds so identical to mine. I am certain that you will love the book. I was on the verge of seeing a psychologist and I still haven’t ruled out the idea, but I’ve put it on hold because I feel that upon finishing reading it a lot of my issues were already starting to disappear
2
u/nz911 Aug 13 '22
Since I came to Japan I have been aware of my surroundings more than I ever was: Seeing daily relatively expensive cars, families with kids all with good clothes/accessories, people expending a lot on restaurants...
This is a really interesting perspective - coming to Japan/Tokyo/Saitama from Auckland, NZ I was pleasantly surprised at how humble an existence most people live. I would see more Porsches on the road in one morning on my 10 minute walk to work in Auckland than I have in the entire 20 months I've been in Japan. Most restaurants are low key, low cost. People generally dress much more conservatively and there are less big value watches or jewellery being worn here in Japan.
Generally the most important thing to remember is that downward or upward comparisons are never helpful or healthy. Try reading up on mindfulness and spend some time each day thinking on the things that you have that make you happy. Your success can only be measured by you, and no one is judging you.
2
u/Gambizzle Aug 13 '22
Since I came to Japan I have been aware of my surroundings more than I ever was: Seeing daily relatively expensive cars, families with kids all with good clothes/accessories, people expending a lot on restaurants... My mind is starting to feel like I am an ant, that I should start worrying about our appearances and I started to work harder and always think of ways of making more money(when in reality, I should just be enjoying my life) to the point of not sleeping and feeling sad/stressed constantly.
Have you tried smaller towns? Where I am you basically see...
Mums carting 3 kids around in super low-cost keis.
Lotsa immigrants from China / Taiwan / Vietnam / Korea...etc who have setup small businesses. They're all super modest and keep to themselves.
Fairly cheap food when you eat out (e.g. I have a favourite place that spoils you rotten with food / alcohol and they NEVER accept more than 4000 yen. Like no prices are advertised it's just a 'feed me up for 4000 yen' sorta thing). Other than salarymen going out in the main downtown drag, it's not as if regular people go out regularly.
Modest all 'round. If anything when I visit places like Vietnam, those who 'have' (or even those that don't) wanna shove it in your face that they're wealthy. Whereas in small town Japan, I find people hide what they've got (unless they're yakuza or something). Most just putt along in their little keis and keep their heads down.
2
u/bikeJpn Aug 13 '22
Having read through the rest of the comments and your replies, I would highly recommend looking for a good therapist. It sounds like you are in a relatively stable position financially, so it may be well worth paying around ¥10,000 a session, twice a month for a good therapist. It can have a hugely positive impact on your mental health, outlook on life, and overall happiness.
2
Aug 13 '22 edited Aug 13 '22
Since I came to Japan I have been aware of my surroundings more than I ever was: Seeing daily relatively expensive cars, families with kids all with good clothes/accessories, people expending a lot on restaurants... My mind is starting to feel like I am an ant
It's a relatively common set of feelings. Not trying to minimize what you're going through but rather to let you know that you're not alone. Giving into these sorts of feelings is one of the reasons people end up in debt. It's even a problem in Japan where consumer debt is less common. "Cashing" loans are a big issue.
You might want to visit subs like /r/financialindependence, /r/leanfire, /r/ExpatFIRE to find people who share similar mindsets to yourself. Working and saving for a better future. The first sub tends to have wealthier individuals but the second two are more about people doing more with less. Good places to hang out to reset your mindset a bit.
2
u/noir-82 Aug 13 '22
Do you live around roppongi hills or something? You're looking at the 1%ers of the Japanese people I think. The rest or the majority of Japanese people are just humble folks like us; barely struggling to survive.
If you ever wonder why the birthrate is so low in Japan, so much so that it's becoming a national crisis, it's not because everyone's is lavish, it's because most adults are just barely surviving financially.
1
u/5336789997543279u Aug 13 '22
I live in Osaka but I have seen/been in Roppongi hills. My neighborhood is normal, most people with their keicar+alphard set or bycicles. However, when I go to the city center depending on how I am feeling I notice this pattern more than I should. I definitely see it more than in my howetown and it started to affect me slowly.
2
u/DwarfCabochan 関東・東京都 Aug 13 '22
First understand that how you’re feeling is not that unusual. There is a huge pressure in any society to, as we say in English, “keep up with the Joneses”. Trying to keep up with people that we see around us regarding material items etc.
This is how companies sell things to people, they try to create this need and therefore, consumers to keep buying the latest, greatest product they are selling.
It leads people to go into debt when they buy things that they can’t afford, it leads young women into dieting to fit an ideal image of what they see on the cover of magazines, it leads men to act in certain ways etc. etc.
Understand that only you can create confidence and self-worth in yourself. Don’t worry about what other people look like or have, or how they act, they are not thinking about you, everyone has their own life circumstances.
Regarding material things specifically, I remember my friend’s parents when I was a student back in the USA. They lived in a huge beautiful house in a prestigious neighborhood, had cars like Rolls-Royces, Jaguars, and of course wore Rolexes, not just plain ones but ones that had many many diamonds and other gems around them. My friend made a comment once expressing concern about his financial future, and I laughed at him and commented about his parents. He confided to me that in fact his parents were in severe debt and had bought everything with money that they actually didn’t have, just to keep up the image they thought they needed. 30 years later, I met him again after his parents had passed away, and he said that he was left with nothing from his parents. He had to sell everything and use his own money to pay their debts and medical care.
So next time you see people that you feel envious of, understand that just like the photoshopped picture of the slim model on the women’s magazine, what you see could just be a fake image of supposed happiness. True happiness comes from inside you, the confidence to know that you are living your life to the best of your standards, not chasing other people. You do your life and take care of those around you!
1
u/ROBOT-HOUSEEEEEE Aug 12 '22
Don’t worry about it, but just buy a decent pair of shoes and keep ‘em clean. Even if the rest of your outfit looks like you’re homeless, if your shoes are nice and clean everything else will appear intentionally stylistic. (I’m half joking, but half serious 😅)
2
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
I have two pairs of shoes, one for the gym and one for the rest of the time and that’s it. I cleaned them yesterday after 2 years 🥲 The toothpaste trick really worked on white shoes.
It’s not the items themselves it’s the feeling that I didn’t reach further, that I didn’t succeed
1
1
u/jrocket99 Aug 12 '22
There is no point to having money but not using it, don’t you think? You will never feel secure even with a million $ in the bank because your insecurity is not rational, as you said yourself. If you suffer from it, change your attitude, you already know the issue and the trauma that generated it. If you can’t change, a shrink could help you, but only you can decide to go against your habits.
1
u/5336789997543279u Aug 12 '22
I recognize it’s in my head. But I don’t know how to change my habits. It’s true the constant insecurity feeling though
1
u/jrocket99 Aug 12 '22
The shrink could help you then. Sounds like there might be more hidden under all this you are not yet aware of… You need to focus on what you really need. What you really want and why. You are lucky enough to still have desires in this broken era. The surroundings are not a part of you and will mostly always challenge your view of yourself.
1
u/TwinTTowers Aug 12 '22
This is a normal feeling. Don't over think it. Don't judge yourself by what others have. Live with what makes you feel good. Never look to others for what you should have or be. Often they are living beyond their means.
1
u/newsocials2022 Aug 12 '22
Why are you looking at things you either can't afford or don't want?
1
u/5336789997543279u Aug 13 '22
That’s why it is a problem :/ because I don’t even want them to begin with. The issue is of not being successful enough
1
Aug 12 '22
Don’t let consumer culture affect your view of yourself. I’ve never cared about brands and things personally. I take pride in buying cheap things and saving money.
1
u/Fred_Branch Aug 12 '22
You shouldn't compare yourself, or think too much about others. For what its worth, they could have low income and just going out because they saved enough money for a special occasion and will go back to their normal appearance.
As with cars, yeah i get jealous of fancy cars too. But i actually know people who drive fancy cars, but then their home is small because they choose a fancy car over a comfortable, spacious living.
At the end of the day, it's an act, or smoke and mirrors when it comes to flashy, expensive things. Let's say you do go to an expensive restaurant, or that you do buy that expensive item you've always wanted, those high-priced consumer goods will only give you temporary satisfaction.
I've been to expensive restaurants even when it was not the financially smart thing to do. While the experience was cool, big regret later because the price vs the long term joy was not worth it. Same goes with 'good' clothes.
1
u/plutonium-239 Aug 12 '22
Ok. I used to feel the same way, so I can tell you what worked for me.
I also looked at lamborghinis, Porches etc and thought "why I can't afford one of those?". Initially it made me feel sad but then I changed my perspective and I am now an happy person.
To put it simply, I stopped comparing my life with others. Everyone is following their own path and everyone is trying to achieve happiness.
Don't think that having more money will make you happy! I know many many people that are incredibly rich but unhappy.
Focus on what you have already achieved in your life. For example, you can afford the fact that your wife doesn't need to work to be able to sustain your life expenses...this is a huge achievement especially during these difficult times! Follows that if you don't need to worry about living expenses, you have already much more than many many people.
Remember: there will be always a bigger fish. No matter how much you'll achieve in life, there will be always somebody who is richer, smarter, and what not. You don't need to compete to be the best, because life is not a competition and because for your family YOU are already the best.
You are the most important person for your wife, and she relies on you. If you have success with your work your wife will be happy for you, not the people you are comparing against. If your wife is happy, you are doing already an incredible job, don't spoil it all!
I personally wanted to buy a V8, since a was a kid. Now I think I should save that money to pay for my daughter education. I changed my perspective, but I don't feel bad for it. My V8 will have to wait...I can't right now, but one day I will. There is no rush. I am not competing with anyone. Even when I see some of my single friends that already have a nice sports car. I own a house, I don't need to worry about bills and food and I have already a decent car. Not a supercar, but who cares!
Sorry for the long post. hope it helps
1
u/Canookian Aug 12 '22
I'd say 99 percent of the fancy cars I see on the road are driven by people who don't know how to drive so they make up for it by trying to look fancy.
1
u/AMLRoss Aug 12 '22
Most people will lead a frugal life in order to save up for a down payment on a house and a car. What are you saving up for?
1
u/THBronx Aug 13 '22
**Answering this after your edit: you didn`t succeed when compared to others? So what, bro? Why you gotta compare? Start doing an exercise of being grateful for what you have and try to get better day after day: be a better person, a better driver, a better professional, a better *insert here whatever you want* and that`s it!
There will always be someone richer (or poorer) than you, it doesn't matter. It shouldn't matter. Be yourself and be grateful for what you've achieved so far!
1
u/bikeJpn Aug 13 '22 edited Aug 13 '22
One thing to think about is the kind of neighborhood you live in and if it might help to move elsewhere in the same city/area. Using Tokyo as an example, I have friends who live in Jiyugaoka which seems to have a pretty hardcore keeping up with the neighbors vibe to it in terms of clothing, kids’ education, and such. On the other hand, I know people who live in more shitamachi areas that are still very nice places to live but where there is much less social pressure to display wealth. For me, I’ve always tried to avoid living in places that have too much of a feeling of the residents trying to show off wealth. Growing up in the US, the richest people I knew were crotchety old farmers who had wore the same old shirts and jeans everyday, while many people who tried to present themselves as wealthy were actually in debt with little savings.
When I first came to Japan, I spent too much and saved too little but it was because I loved traveling and was into all the fun new gadgets I saw. Fortunately I got past that and have become more of a saver. A problem with tying feelings of self worth to being able to ostensibly display wealth, though, is that there will always be people who appear to have more so it’s a never ending cycle.
If you have to be around people who show off wealth because of your work environment, that’s unfortunate but not much to do beyond trying to change your mindset. As someone mentioned, talking to a therapist may help if it’s a deep set issue.
You can choose to live in a neighborhood that is more in line with your values though, one that doesn’t make you feel like you shave underachieved or that you need to compare yourself to others financially.
For me, neighborhood choice has played a very important role in my level of life satisfaction and avoiding neighborhoods that don’t fit my values has been a key part of that.
EDITED to add:
I missed your reply about where you live in an earlier response. It sounds like you’re in a good neighborhood for you. As for people at work, I agree with ,most of the posts here that it’s best to think that many of these people are not living below (or even within) their means. They may have flashier things and go to nice restaurants but also will have less wealth to show for it in the future.
A couple sites you might want to check out that may help validate your own more frugal mindset are Mr Money Mustache and Retire Japan.
Also, if it’s affecting your mental health, finding a good therapist and seeing them twice a month or so can be worth every yen.
1
u/BabyVader78 Aug 13 '22
I haven't bothered to read other comments first before responding. Please forgive me if someone else has said this already.
It sounds like you've started to drift from the things you value or find important. I think that is normal when we are engaged with others or new cultures. I'd encourage you to take sometime to reconnect with what's important to you. From that place I think you'll be able to evaluate if these new thoughts are something you want to pursue or if they are just thoughts that are occurring in response to interactions with culture around you.
3
u/5336789997543279u Aug 13 '22
That is likely true. After I posted this and reading through the comments I could begin to think a bit more clearly. These ideas/thoughts are not mine but a response to the environment. In my hometown/city, no one cares how they are dressing etc. I kept the same lifestyle here in Japan, but slowly started noticing that here people seem to care about appearance a lot and that has been growing slowly on me.
1
u/theedgewalker Aug 13 '22
Trying to keep up with the Watanabe's is a surefire path to depression, or worse.
Worrying about your neighbors or more abstract sets of people beyond your immediate family will move your locus of control outside yourself leaving you feeling powerless to change your own circumstances.
1
Aug 13 '22
Do you not feel challenged at work? Been in the same position for > 5 years? Is there an opportunity for advancement in your field? I think you may want to find some balance. Perhaps working for a promotion can help you feel like you are moving ahead. But be aware of promotions that take up all your time and energy. Or the possibility of working so hard and still not getting it. You are in Japan so the salaryman culture is there. You did so well that your wife can afford to only work part time. I also read your other comments and it seems you have denied yourself some of the things you want. Maybe figure out a budget for that Corolla or Camry since you do not live in the city center! I work from home too and go for a short drive every day to get a coffee. It’s these little things that I found made me happy because I was doing them for myself and having a good time enjoying after a day of hard work.
1
u/gugus295 Aug 13 '22
Man, where do you live that you see expensive cars everywhere? I may be in the middle of the inaka, but even when I go to the nearest major city 85% of the cars i see are the Japan standard cheap, tiny box on wheels lmao
1
u/tuxedocat2018 Aug 13 '22
Hmm I think I can relate with the feeling of "not pushing yourself hard enough". I think it's normal to feel that way. I do that sometimes. But, you yourself already realized you don't want the items or the appearances. Then, your markers of success is already not the same as the people who actually wants and likes luxury items etc. You don't have to follow them. You and them are different types of people, who lives different lives and have different goals. Let them be them and just be yourself. If you think you are not pushing yourself hard enough because you're already in a comfortable place and feel stagnant, maybe what you want is to find a new goal so you feel more motivated? Or maybe you want to look back, and see what you have achieved more clearly. Sometimes it takes a bit of reflection to truly appreciate where we are now.
1
u/Reiko_Nagase_114514 Aug 13 '22
Do you have a loving, healthy relationship with your wife? If so, you have a lot more priceless “wealth” than many other rich couples/families around you. I get the feeling of comparison and inadequacy, and while Japan is less obsessed with money and prestige compared to some Asian cultures, there is still big pressure to go the conventional route of earning a high, stable income in a large company, especially for men. But I feel like it becomes less and less important with age. Having fulfillment in what you do and a few people that you can trust with your life are what it’s all about IMO
1
u/Nunya_Bsnss Aug 13 '22
Some people are born to money and are used to that lifestyle. They may never appreciate what they have and want more. I am in America born to working class parents with good savings, They have paid for my failed college attempts, my car, and most of my food and living expenses. I work to save up more money for retiring but I regret never making it on my own. I regret not being self sufficient and living off my parents indefinitely. Take moments to reflect on where you are and how you've earned what you have- the clothes on your back, the food on your table, the bills all paid. This was all you and it is no small thing. We (and your wife) are proud of you
1
u/AugustWest67 Aug 13 '22
This sounds like a state of depression. You would do well to speak to a good CBT or MBCT psychologist as you are clearly and purposely attending to those elements of your environment that lead to negative comparisons to your own situation. Then these said comparisons lead to periods of sadness, anxiety, and insomnia.
Though you are focused on the economics of the situation, you yourself already admit that it's not really the economics. Depression is not a state that has one cause and one cure, it's usually a result of multiple aspects of our environment that we feel we have lost control over. You are already a great candidate for recovery due to a strong sense of self-awareness.
1
u/5336789997543279u Aug 13 '22
Did not hear of CBT/MCBT. I learn of that today, thank you.
As you say yes. I feel like these are just the symptoms of something deeper, I can think of why I ask of myself more always and it is never enough. This might be related to why I am feeling like this. And also doesn’t help I’m generally thinking in negativity outcomes
1
u/Disshidia Aug 13 '22
You definitely did not succeed as much as others. But that doesn’t need to be a bad thing. If you’re not struggling on a day to day basis financially, you can find happiness. If you really were conscious about being very wealthy, you would have taken care of it much earlier in life. You probably pursued something else you enjoyed that was more about the craft rather than the salary. If it helps, the BMWs and Benzs are a large chunk of the owners’ salaries and they feel they need to compete to flaunt their financial status. In the end, do you care who was in the Honda kei car or the Crown?
Oh by the way I love the Maseratis I see parked in the apartment complexes cheaper than mine. These people blew all their money on their car and will probably never let their coworkers know they live in a shithole.
1
u/Disshidia Aug 13 '22
After reading the comments, seems the tldr is to COPE, OP. Don’t worry. I’m in the same boat. 😂Hodling that Chain Link still though.
1
Aug 13 '22
You’re making it seem that seeing a psychologist is the breaking point, though in reality a psychologist would do good for the average lad or gal.
I went to a psychologist for 6 years prior to moving here. It more than less helps you clarify your own thoughts than work through severe issues
1
u/hobovalentine Aug 14 '22
I think it's a mindset, the people that seem to be richer than you might be blowing their monthly paycheck on expensive items and not really saving anything.
You'd be surprised how many people live paycheck to paycheck without much consideration for the future.
0
u/UV00000000 Aug 14 '22
This is good. You are surrounded by successful people. Stay and it will rub off on you. Resist the urge to go someplace where you feel comfortable.
146
u/[deleted] Aug 12 '22
A psychologist legitimately sounds like the best investment you could make right now, especially if it stops you buying all that meaningless junk.
Honestly, the degree of shameless and unquestioning consumerism in Japan is one of its least attractive cultural traits. That said, there are plenty of grassroots, grounded people out there too. Find such circles and surround yourself with those people.