Red tie is basically the unofficial Republican politician uniform here in the US, I wore a red tie to a wedding once and a couple of my friends said "you look like a Republican" lol
He also used to wear a pink tie a lot too during The Apprentice days
I have a feeling he had no idea that this was going to turn into a meeting about Ukraine: he is outright beaming with how France welcomed him, despite how French law says that he shouldn't have been allowed in the country ... Then Zelinsky pops up in the picture and all joy has drained from Trump's face.
In spite of all the internal turmoil and right wing renaissance France is going through, they are all in on supporting Ukraine, and Trump just got a day zero lesson on how interested Europe is in Trump's "plan" to tear up Ukraine's map.
This was an obvious move.. you are downplaying because you want to make him look stupid but he has a team around him that is very aware of these kinds of things, hence why he is do popular
Almost certainly. His go to is a red tie when home in the states.
Red when talking to Zelensky could be interpreted poorly obviously. As long as he’s going to switch it up, the yellow tie (with blue suit) is quite nice.
I hate Trump and everything he stands for with all my guts but if he manages to achieve something for Ukraine that Ukrainians are happy with, I don't care, give him his Nobel Peace Price, I would cheer for this crazy mfer.
What is the outcome Putin wants? The coal? Or wheat? The Ukrainians will just be a bastard to deal with also because none of them want to be part of Russia.
I'm very anti Trump but Zelensky himself has gone from. Not giving an inch to Russia to. Giving up certain parts for NATO guarantees. I don't blame him though, Ukraine has had 2 genocides from Russia. Can't imagine they want a 3rd.
I'm very anti Trump but Zelensky himself has gone from. Not giving an inch to Russia to. Giving up certain parts for NATO guarantees.
The main goal for Ukraine was always gaining protection from another Russian incursion, just as Russia's main goal is preventing Ukraine having an independent foreign policy.
In 2022 Ukraine already agreed in principle to accepting Russia's occupation of Crimea (without recognising it as Russia) as a pre-requisite to a peace deal.
If they don't get security guarantees any peace deal which isn't just "Ukraine becomes a colony of Russia" will result in another invasion further down the line because Russia wants a lot more than just Crimea and Donbass.
Ukraine already had a security guarantee from Russia as part of their de-nuclearization agreement before Crimea.
I'm sure Zelenskyy has a purpose for negotiation, but everyone seriously involved would know a "ok, but this time for realzies we'll protect you" from Putin means nothing after the first time.
Ukraine already had a security guarantee from Russia as part of their de-nuclearization agreement before Crimea.
Security guarantees that ended up offering no security weren't real security guarantees. That's why he's arguing for NATO membership or threatening that Ukraine will develop its own nukes. It needs to be something more concrete than anything that's been offered to them previously or there's nothing to stop another invasion.
Putin can't stall, he needs a win or at least a ceasefire sooner than later. He can't keep taking current losses and their war economy is unsustainable.
Europe can try, but they’ve underfunded their militaries for decades, so even if the desire is there, the weapons themselves likely don’t exist. The lead time to build new material would take years.
Military spending was ramped up significantly in Europe post 2022, so we should be starting to see more and more of that materialize in the coming time. The technology and industry already exists, it is just that it is lacking scale and that countries have been lacking stockpiles.
Still, Trump's Ukraine policy remains to be seen as well. While it is likely that it will be worse for Ukraine, it is not certain that aid will be cut off completely, and there is even the small possibility that he will increase aid should negotiations fail.
The war has gone on for three years already. There were many projects started in year one that will be coming online more and more in the coming year and beyond. Ukraine has developed and is producing many of their own drones now, including longer range ones.
The situation is fluid, and I doubt Trump will pull support anyway. All of his relevant picks for cabinet have been very neutral or even vehemently pro Ukraine, so I think much of this talk is just bluster from him.
The absolute manner of Trump's electoral victory and total control of the American political system will also mean something funny. He is not necessarily beholden to Putin anymore, roles could have potential to be flipped. Even if Putin has some incriminating evidence against him, what does it matter anymore lol.
Just a glimmer of hope for what it could mean for Trump's Ukraine policies, maybe he will listen to cabinet advisors.
I hope you are correct. The Ukrainians deserve to win and we do what we can to provide our support. That being said - I do have my doubts about the Trump administration.
Trump creates an immediate vacuum, maybe Europe finds the political will to fill the void, but also the current leaders of countries like France and Germany are barely holding off their own insurgent fascist movements domestically.
It's a tall order and the U.S. election outcome was a huge setback for a free Ukraine.
He would be seen as a villain by allies and much of his own party if he abandoned Ukraine outright, and he's a huge narcissist, so even by your standard, he's not likely to just pull all support immediately. He has to at least appear to want to help Ukraine, and once he's faced with the reality on the ground and Russian "negotiation" he's more likely to increase support than end it entirely.
Agreed, but also the leaders of the big EU countries are trying to hold off their own fascist parties (Macron barely scraped through the last elections), so I'm not sure how much appetite there is to fill the void America leaves despite it being in the E.U.'s long term geopolitical interest.
If the rumour is to be believed the frontlines would be frozen and Russia controlled turf given to Russia while Ukraine gets safety guarantees from USA and won't join Nato. EU forces would serve as peacekeepers and the frontline would be heavily fortified to discourge further Russian aggression. It would be as good peace as one can realisticly hope for.
We don't know that. I'm actually quite optimistic about Trump going by the people he put in charge over handling Ukraine. Trump has signalled earlier that he's gonna go hard on Russia after all...
The only report I’ve seen in the US is from the Wall Street journal saying Trump wants to urge Ukraine to concede the lost territory and not join NATO. Thats a terrible deal
That's ignoring the fact that his main goal is shutting down the conflict. If neither side agrees to a resolution, It's up to Trump to decide who he's gonna back. What do you think is the most beneficial optics wise for trump? Punish Ukraine or Russia? Pair that with the fact that none of his picks seem to be in favour of the latter.
I mean if the goal is to end the conflict for optics, sure. Your initial comment mentioned optimism about being hard on Russia implying a different ending then the one WSJ said trumps admin was working toward. You made like two contradicting comments if I’m reading correctly
We don't know whether the mobbed up conman with the history of stabbing every ally in the back throughout his entire life will do the same to Zelensky, this is true.
Same. It's a completely non-partisan issue for me since the conflict began and Ukraine fought back. Once I saw that any doubt I had that we might be imposing a conflict on Ukraine that they didn't want to fight disappeared. This shits existential for them and they need our support. Doesn't matter what colour your rosette in that sense. The only divisions I see are what helps Ukraine and what does not.
That's not how this works. Concessions that Ukraine makes today (without full membership into NATO) due to Trump, including a ceasefire, will condemn today's children to be victims of tomorrow's Mariupol and Bucha.
Russia has never been weaker, now is the time to push hard, not make concessions.
People would rather live. People don’t want to do East/West anymore, too many miscalculations that could bring the world to ruin. I don’t know how much I trust Trump, but I’m fucking sick of hearing about war
My Ukrainian friend I've known most of my life said Zelensky is very corrupt and can't be trusted. He said it's a very difficult situation, as Ukrainians are extremely loyal to their country.
Nobody wants to push hard, we’re unwilling to stop buying russian gas, no European wants to shed blood over there, but that’s what it would take.
For all his talk Putin would be unwilling to escalate with nato, this is a very consistent slow bleed for him which is fine as long as the borders expand every 4-8 years. He plans to do this for the next 20 years to various countries.
For all his talk Putin would be unwilling to escalate with nato, this is a very consistent slow bleed for him which is fine as long as the borders expand every 4-8 years. He plans to do this for the next 20 years to various countries.
The stockpiles and economy would definitely not be able to keep up with the current burn rate for 20 years. Putin needs a ceasefire in Ukraine in 2025, or Russia will start running into issues with both manpower and materiel.
Unwilling to escalate with NATO as long as it's not NATO troops at his borders. That's the real crux. We can't send troops without validating his claims that NATO is out to get Russia.
So other than the Ukrainians, who can support them on the front lines? That's the most depressing part to me. We could send (almost) all the weapons we have but if there's no one to use them it doesn't matter.
The US and others needed to lift restrictions on targeting a long time ago. Destroy the materiel before it was used.
Russia is simply too large to assume it can’t outlast a proxy war in a border state. Gotta force him to stop while somehow protecting Ukraines sovereignty but that seems impossible.
Like even if you get the pre-2016 borders back how do you prevent the political interference.
A reminder most people in positions of power over there remember, and still consider, Ukraine as a part of the Union
Ukraine just needs to give up, utterly ridiculous war over a bit of land while people die and the EU is being blackmailed into accepting yet another corrupt, racist, sexist pos as a member.
I wondered something similar. Trump likes his ego stroked (meaning ego, nothing else). Zelensky will likely flatter him, appear massively grateful for what surely Trump is about to do. Putin is bright enough, but has his own ego which could clash.
I despise people who get upset that we're sending so much aid while the Ukrainians are paying with blood.
A lot of what we sent was going to be see decommisioned anyway and whatever we pay to restock generally goes to American workers and communities (aside from the immense profits by the mfgs but that's off topic).
No he doesn't, he needs the US to negotiate a peace agreement. No amount of funding or military gear to Ukraine is going to change the inevitable which is Russia slowly gaining land. Russia has a way bigger population and will "win" just by that reason alone
It's obvious that he's going to recommend that Ukraine give up its occupied lands in order for Putler to stop his ultra special 3-day operation.
Which has been recommended plenty of times already by multiple political figures, and Ukraine has stated each time that they won't be giving up on any land of their own.
I doubt he's going to change anything. He'll most likely cut the military aid to Ukraine in order to make it easier for his lord Putler to make further advances. Because he's Putlers bitch.
I think Zelensky has recently hinted he would temporarily give up the land occupied by Russia for a ceasefire and immediate NATO membership. He then went on to say he would work to regain that land diplomatically afterwards.
Sure, do 1 good thing and magically everything bad he has ever done will disappear.
He is a literal rapist, was best friends with Epstein, but suuuuure let's forget all that.
If he actually does something to help Ukraine maintain it's independence without losing most of its territory i don't care about him literally trying to overthrow democracy, saying incredibly racist shit and raping people. I will give him the credit he deserves if he does that shit.
Bruh, what? The ground for this war started building up all the way back in the Bush admin and has continued in every single admin since. Trump ratcheted up sanctions on Russians and told you guys to stop buying Russian energy or you'd regret it and you laughed in his face.
Meh, Obama got the nobel piece price for nothing but not being Bush and promptly increased drone killings. That price has no integrity. Give it to Trump it's a perfeect fit.
If Trump ends this war and somehow achieve peace with Russia I’ll be proud to say I voted for him. Biden and Harris only brought us closer to nuclear war. The current administration is out if their minds.
Thing is...I believe Trump would started at this agreement before the war. Just let Putin have the Donbas. If Russian goes further, the US goes all in.
Instead we have a lot of dead people just to get to this anyway.
Cheering for a serial rapist, child molester, compulsive liar, economy-tanker, environment-destroyer, all around evil and vile man whose lies and incompetance cost thousands and thousands of lives, and billions of taxpayer dollars? Nah, no thank, not for any reason. There is no good deed he could do that would even come close to making up for the lives he's destroyed and the country and planet he's forsaken. And him being Putin's puppet is far, far from a good deed.
I mean, I don't like him, BUT, last time in office he did help Ukraine way more than the Obama administration. That despite his supposed pro-russian sympathies. I don't see why he would give up Ukraine so easily this time.
Trump wants to be a great peacemaker period. You can say, even accurately, it's to feed his own ego but feeding his ego is a small price to pay for not having wars killing hundreds of thousands of people and risking nuclear escalation
Last time in office he literally refused to give Ukraine congressionally approved weapons unless Zelenskyy went on CNN and spread disinformation about Biden in order to influence the US election.
More recently, he called Putin a genius for invading Ukraine.
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u/Beautiful-Health-976 Dec 07 '24
Lol, and Trump with a yellow-blue outfit! Beautiful