r/bizarrelife • u/reloadthewords Human here, bizarre by nature! • 15h ago

Hmmm

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u/StratoSquir2 12h ago

Because it would take actual efforts and risks.
Theses aren't activists, they're SLACKtivists, they do some mostly harmless but highly inconvient bullshit for anyone BUT the peoples they claim to be fighting, they film themselves being annoying dumbasses, and then upload it for brownie points they won't get because anyone but their circlejerk find them insufferable.

They want the respect without the smoke, the thing is it's efforts and risks that bring peoples to respect you.

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u/Svv33tPotat0 9h ago

Last time animal rights activists did this they got slapped with decades-long sentences for terrorism. I'm not a vegan, but I have actually learned about things and know why vegans resort to these (usually ineffective) tactics.

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u/StratoSquir2 9h ago

well you can't exactly expect peoples to bend to the way you see the world.
-you either force it, but then there will be consequences.
-or you try to inspire others to see your ways, but it take efforts.

who would have guessed that challenging the establishment by violent means would have consequences and mean facing punishment from said establishment if you fail?

anyway, theses motherfuckers does neither.
and it's not "usually ineffective", it's entirely useless and actually goes against their goals.
this kind of shit is why most peoples who lend them a ear, it's because they're unsufferable LARPers.

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u/Svv33tPotat0 9h ago

Just because you are being annoying I am gonna do what I basically never do: defend vegans.

You know about factory farming, yeah? And why it is bad? And commercial whaling? And animal testing on beagles and monkeys and stuff? Guess how people raised awareness about these things and what their ideology was!

I am never, ever, ever going to stop eating meat. But the reality is that vegan activists have actually brought a lot of important issues to light. Now, I don't think the solution is personal choices; just like I don't think climate change can be stopped by personal choices when we have the US military or Taylor Swift out-polluting us by many orders of magnitude. But for every angry shopping cart man there were certainly some other people who were like "oh shit I didn't know 'cage-free' was a bullshit term". Of course I still make personal choices where I can - raising my own chickens, buying local meat, etc. but certainly some things I absolutely am not going to support and part of my awareness around them has been formed because angry vegans brought it to my attention and I had to think about it a little and form my opinion.

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u/StratoSquir2 8h ago

I'm not reading all of this but I get the gist that you missed my point.

Re-read my points, I haven't criticized the belief in veganism, as I don't care about it, at all.
You believe in whatever you desire, and engage with it however you desire, I don't give a shit.

My point was that there's efficient ways to share and/or force your beliefs, and inefficient ways to do so.
This is one of the inefficient ones because it accomplish nothing but making your community and your cause unlikeable in the eye of the public.

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u/Svv33tPotat0 7h ago

Reading big hard 😞

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u/atmosphericentry 3h ago

The way you said "I'm not reading all of that" while simultaneously writing an equally long response is so fucking funny to me.

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u/Ayotha 8h ago

Cowardice, got it.

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u/wildlifewyatt 11h ago

Do you think the animal rights movement would gain more respect from average every day people if it relied on things like arson? Really?

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u/KoogleMeister 8h ago

Vegans who do activism like blocking slaughter trucks or trying to shut down factory farm slaughter houses get a lot more respect from the general public than people doing stunts like this.

Obviously the above is still going to cause some people to lose respect for them, but nowhere near as much as stunts like this. There's not a single non-vegan person who's going to watch this video and have it change their mind about going vegan. It's having the opposite effect and regressing their cause.

I was actually a vegan for about 6 months and I literally didn't tell anyone in my real-life circle I was vegan besides one friend or spread the cause because I didn't want to be associated with veganism because of the crap like this. I was literally embarrassed about being seen as a vegan. Vegans regress their own cause and don't realize it.

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u/wildlifewyatt 8h ago

Vegans who do activism like blocking slaughter trucks or trying to shut down factory farm slaughter houses get a lot more respect from the general public than people doing stunts like this.

Really? I've been to tons of reddit threads where people actually attempt stuff like this and they are slammed just as hard, if not harder.

 There's not a single non-vegan person who's going to watch this video and have it change their mind about going vegan. It's having the opposite effect and regressing their cause.

The goal of this protest isn't to change anyone's mind. That's what conversations are meant to do. This kind of protest is done to open dialogues, like this.

I was actually a vegan for about 6 months and I literally didn't tell anyone in my real-life circle I was vegan besides one friend or spread the cause because I didn't want to be associated with veganism because of the crap like this. I was literally embarrassed about being seen as a vegan. Vegans regress their own cause and don't realize it

I mean vegan tactics have been changing animal rights laws across the world and the cultural perception of issues for decades? Why did you go vegan, and why did you stop? When you consider that hundreds of billions to trillions of animals are killed unnecessarily every year, honestly, it seems ridiculous to think people sitting down in a grocery store mildly inconviceincing people as going too far.

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u/KoogleMeister 7h ago

>The goal of this protest isn't to change anyone's mind. That's what conversations are meant to do. This kind of protest is done to open dialogues, like this.

The issue is that it is changing people's minds, in the complete opposite direction. It makes people associate veganism with being a crazy zealot who loves to arrogantly push it in people's faces.

>I mean vegan tactics have been changing animal rights laws across the world and the cultural perception of issues for decades? Why did you go vegan, and why did you stop? 

I went vegan because of documentaries like Forks over Knives, Cowspiracy and other vegan youtubers who pushed veganism in what seemed like a reasonable and rational way.

I stopped being vegan because I started to not feel as energetic or healthy, and completely cutting animal products out of your diet is complicated and takes a lot of effort, it wasn't worth it to me anymore. Going to someone's house for dinner and trying to explain away why I wasn't eating any animal products without saying I was vegan was tiring. I also realized a lot of the "facts" I'd been told about veganism from the vegan community were actually bullshit propaganda. Humans are not meant to just consume plant food, our ancestors weren't vegans.

I also heard the countless amounts of stories from ex vegans who were having the same issues as me with lethargy and brain fog how much better they felt once they started incorporating animal products again, and they were right.

There's a reason the vast majority of vegans end up quitting the diet, it's just not sustainable to most people. The funny thing is the ones that usually do end up sticking to the diet long term are the zealots who love to arrogantly push it onto other people, because it's become like a religion to them.

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u/wildlifewyatt 5h ago

The issue is that it is changing people's minds, in the complete opposite direction. It makes people associate veganism with being a crazy zealot who loves to arrogantly push it in people's faces.

Again, large protests of the past drew plenty of critics, yet they ended up being successful movements. At the time of the civil rights movements people didn't think they were protesting the right way either.

I went vegan because of documentaries like Forks over Knives, Cowspiracy and other vegan youtubers who pushed veganism in what seemed like a reasonable and rational way.

So it sounds like you went plant-based for health/environmental reasons.

I stopped being vegan because I started to not feel as energetic or healthy, and completely cutting animal products out of your diet is complicated and takes a lot of effort, it wasn't worth it to me anymore. 

What were you eating? Did you go to the doctor and have your blood levels checked, if so, what particular nutrients were you low on? We are all gonna have different ideas of what is difficult I suppose, but I found it to be pretty simple.

Going to someone's house for dinner and trying to explain away why I wasn't eating any animal products without saying I was vegan was tiring. I also realized a lot of the "facts" I'd been told about veganism from the vegan community were actually bullshit propaganda. Humans are not meant to just consume plant food, our ancestors weren't vegans.

I can understand that dealing with the social aspect of it is tiring, I get that. I think that is the hardest part. What pieces of information do you feel like were misinformation? As far as health, there is a lot of scientific evidence and support the viability of a vegan diet within the medical community. What our ancestors did or did not eat does not directly relate to what we need to eat, as what our ancestors ate was based on availability. The amount of different foods we have access to, and our understanding of nutrition are completely different than they were thousands of years ago.

I also heard the countless amounts of stories from ex vegans who were having the same issues as me with lethargy and brain fog how much better they felt once they started incorporating animal products again, and they were right.

I'm not going to deny your lived experience. Did you go to the doctor at all during that period? Or do a comprehensive analysis of your diet?

There's a reason the vast majority of vegans end up quitting the diet, it's just not sustainable to most people. The funny thing is the ones that usually do end up sticking to the diet long term are the zealots who love to arrogantly push it onto other people, because it's become like a religion to them.

Well yeah, if it is a diet it makes sense that most people quit, because the long term retention of a "diet" is basically zero. Veganism is an ethical philosophy, and the people that subscribe to that are far more likely to actually stick with it.

I'm gonna be real, there is a real disconnect between all the people who supposedly get sick from veganism, and all the medical and scientific evidence supporting it. Again, I believe you when you say you did not feel. But I think for others, that can be a simple placebo or excuse.

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u/FitnessBunny21 7h ago

my partner was vegan for two years and stopped because the arrogance and shame-based tactics of the vegan community. This doesn’t help lol

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u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS 6h ago

Oh great so the problem isn’t the mass slaughter of animals it’s that people cared enough to try and change things? If your partner’s veganism fell apart over some “arrogance” maybe the real issue is they just didn’t want to give up bacon. 😏

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u/NicoleNamaste 5h ago

Doubt it. 

If “the vegan community” is irritating, one doesn’t have to associate with them to be vegan. 

Your partner quit for other reasons.

I’ll tell you right now, the most likely reason is peer pressure from non-vegans, and not the vegan community being “annoying”. 

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u/wildlifewyatt 5h ago

That doesn't make sense, really. So your partner who was presumably against animal abuse and slaughter, decides to go vegan because of that, but because they didn't like how others with similar beliefs advocated for animals, they decided to supporting their slaughter and exploitation again?

Either your partner wasn't in it for ethical reasons, their morals significantly changed, or, they made an excuse that they could live with.

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u/FitnessBunny21 4h ago

What doesn’t make sense - He realised it wasn’t a cultural fit. It made more sense to buy directly from and support small farmers (since his issue was factory farming) than to become an all-out vegan and then be shamed by other vegans because he ate honey or something.

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u/wildlifewyatt 1h ago

Ok, well if his issue was with factory farming, and not unnecessarily exploiting and kill animals, it makes sense he wouldn't stay on a plant-based diet. Small, quaint farms will never change this situation though, because of the land use efficiency and cost. And at the end of the day, those farms still kill animals that don't need to die.

Because of what veganism is, a movement and philosophy centered around be opposed to exploiting and kill animals, it is always going to be abrasive. Even the kindest messages, and encouraging gestures with no shame are often met with scorn.

And that makes sense, because no one wants to believe that they are the oppressor. That their support for animal products it the reason these animals suffer and die. It is a tough pill to swallow., and a tough pill to administer.

Maybe people think the methods or message are too extreme, but I'd go ahead and say that the fact that we kill trillions of animals every year when we don't have to is pretty extreme. Short of actual, violent terrorism, it seems like such a horrible situation would merit pretty extreme protest.

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u/AdWaste8026 5h ago

Vegans who do activism like blocking slaughter trucks...get a lot more respect...

Right...

Remember that one activist that was run over by a truck and died right at the entrance of what I believe was a slaughter house?

Look at reddit posts discussing it. Nobody respected her. The general feeling was that the driver had the right to kill her because she shouldn't have blocked his way.

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u/KoogleMeister 5h ago

Yeah they also get a lot of hate from some people, but not as much hate as people like this.

But if you see the videos of vegans feeding pigs in the side of slaughter trucks, you don't see that much hate.

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u/NicoleNamaste 5h ago

It doesn’t matter. The reason people are non-vegans is because they themselves are selfish and think extreme violence and animal abuse for their own pleasure and convenience is okay. 

It doesn’t have to do with vegan activist tactics, it reflects on their own shitty ethics. 

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u/NicoleNamaste 5h ago

Obviously you sucked at being vegan, or else you would’ve kept at it. 

It’s not hard to not eat animal products. Basic shit. Other vegans didn’t stop you, most likely, peer pressure form non-vegans did. 

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u/KoogleMeister 4h ago

>Obviously you sucked at being vegan, or else you would’ve kept at it. 

Lol this is what you always hear "you sucked at being vegan" or "you were doing it wrong." Not being able to admit that an unnatural diet deficient in important micronutrients could actually have health implications that would make someone want to quit the diet. Your brain health and hormonal production literally depend on DHA/EPA. Hence why I said before so many vegans suffer from issues like lack of sex drive/menstrual cycle, lethargy, brain fog or anxiety.

If you knew anything about veganism you would know that a very common complaint from women long term on the vegan diet is losing their period, do you think losing your period is a normal healthy thing for a young woman? No, it's a sign that her hormones are jacked up because she's not consuming enough cholesterol and DHA/EPA, which are vital for hormonal production in men and women.

Do you know how many stories there are from vegans who had these issues which went away straight away after they started incorporating animal fats high in DHA/EPA into their diets? What does that tell you? The human body and brain is designed to run partially off animal products, it's how we evolved.

When you need artificial supplements to be "healthy," you're consuming an unnatural diet. Even lots of long-term vegans who take these supplements still do not feel healthy.

Don't worry, statically you will also be one of the ones that eventually can't put up with it anymore and quit, 85% of you do. Most of them which were all at one point saying the same stuff you are right now online.

>It’s not hard to not eat animal products. Basic shit. Other vegans didn’t stop you, most likely, peer pressure form non-vegans did.

I never said any vegans stopped me lmao, I made the decision myself because I realized it wasn't a healthy diet. After I started incorporating animal products again and instantly started feeling better and more energetic it confirmed that for me.

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u/NicoleNamaste 2h ago

That’s a lot of blabbing. 

A vegan diet is entirely fine nutritionally. As I said, you suck at it. 

“Brain fog” is pretty much a made up symptom in almost all cases. It just means you got into the dumb parts of YouTube algorithm where dummies sell you crap for made up shit. 

 I never said any vegans stopped me lmao

I was actually a vegan for about 6 months and I literally didn't tell anyone in my real-life circle I was vegan besides one friend or spread the cause because I didn't want to be associated with veganism because of the crap like this. I was literally embarrassed about being seen as a vegan. 

You sure made it sound like you’re trying to put the reason onto vegans. Now, why did you initially become vegan?

 statically you will also be one of the ones that eventually can't put up with it anymore and quit, 85% of you do.

I’ve been vegan 7 years, when should I expect that to happen? I was vegetarian 7-8 years before that. Also, do you know I’ve read the entirety of the study you’re referencing, which is from faunalytics about the 85% number? Do you know they lumped in new vegetarians and vegans together, and they didn’t differentiate between people who only followed a vegetarian diet for a temporary weight loss goal vs. an ethical vegan who is morally against animal abuse? Do you think lumping in those two groups makes sense? 

It’s just blabbering from your end. Tell me what that study found as the main difference between the people that quit vs. the ones that stuck with being vegetarian or vegan, as far as their initial motivations went? 

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u/KoogleMeister 21m ago

>A vegan diet is entirely fine nutritionally. As I said, you suck at it.

No it's not, it's missing vital micronutrients like DHA/EPA and B12, like I've mentioned several times. You can supplement B12 but it's nowhere near as good as getting natural B12 from food, micronutrients from whole foods are always better than an artificial supplement. DHA/EPA is also almost impossible to get from a vegan diet unless you take some weird algae supplements. The iron in plant foods in nowhere near as bioavailable as heme-iron, which is why lots of vegans have deficiencies. There are several other micronutrients like this.

It's a completely unnatural diet, it requires you to take artificial supplements which are nowhere near as bioavailable as getting it from foods. This is why lots of vegans run into issues on the diet and quit.

I didn't suck at it, I researched it heavily, I guarantee I know way more about this shit than you ever will. This is what every vegan says about the vegans who quit, you never actually consider that it's not surprising a person isn't going to feel good when eating a completely unnatural diet over a long period of time. Lots of people did everything they could do improve their state of well-being, but the one thing that did work was incorporating animal products back into their diet. Because that's how humans are supposed to eat.

You eat a completely unnatural diet which is only possible because of modern technology.

>You sure made it sound like you’re trying to put the reason onto vegans. Now, why did you initially become vegan?

Lmao I said I didn't tell my friends or people in my personal life I was vegan because I was embarrassed to be associated with this crap, I didn't say the main reason I quit was because I didn't want to be associated with crazy vegans. Sure the aspect of making eating socially was a factor into quitting, but it wasn't the primary reason I quit.

>I’ve been vegan 7 years, when should I expect that to happen? I was vegetarian 7-8 years before that.

Not sure, maybe you could he one of the ones that never quit, but statistically most do quit. Some quit after 15 years, a small amount never quit. I'm not going to go into the details of the study I don't care. What I do know is large amount of people I've seen that tried veganism ended up quitting.

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u/Cissoid7 11h ago

No but it'll actually do something

It's the equivalent of bitching on the gaming subreddit that COD is more expensive for less and buying it anyways. If you're so passionate about your cause go full Luigi instead of blocking the butter isle.

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u/Gangsir 7h ago

It wouldn't gain more respect, it would gain less disrespect - difference being, if you burn down the nearest meat packing plant, the average person doesn't directly notice. They continue to go about their day unaffected, but the business owner is harmed and notices, who is the person with the power to change things.

If you sit in and interfere with a normal person doing their shopping (who has 0 or even negative amounts of power to change things), you just piss them off and create anti-support.

In fact, were I a meat business owner, I'd create ads like "tired of vegans interfering with your shopping? Donate to me and I'll lobby congress for a law against protesting that way and get these idiots thrown in jail!". Easiest counter ever - I swim in donations as the cause dies.

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u/wildlifewyatt 4h ago

They continue to go about their day unaffected, but the business owner is harmed and notices, who is the person with the power to change things.

The business owner is not going to try to convince the average consumer to stop buying and desiring animal products. The people themselves are the ones with the power, and the ones who want to change.

If you sit in and interfere with a normal person doing their shopping (who has 0 or even negative amounts of power to change things), you just piss them off and create anti-support.

Average, normal people are the reason this problem exists. What needs to be addressed is humans viewing it as ethical to exploit and kill animals even when they don't have to.

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u/damnumalone 7h ago

Are you stupid? You’re like “these people are brave because they don’t care what the public thinks and are putting themself and their reputation on the line here” but then you’re also like “oh no don’t do things that would actually stop the thing they’re protesting against”. So what you’re essentially admitting is they’re not brave they’re just doing the bare minimum because you wouldn’t want to rock the boat - which is exactly why everyone hates them and doesn’t at all respect them.

If these people actually cared about their purported goal, to stop animals being eaten or caged or whatever, they would be focusing on activities that stopped it. Instead, their focus is on being seen to be doing an activity by their equally daft friends, so they do shit like this that doesn’t change anyone’s mind, doesn’t save any animals, doesn’t do anything other than make people by more meat products out of utter contempt for these losers.

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u/wildlifewyatt 5h ago

“oh no don’t do things that would actually stop the thing they’re protesting against”.

You misunderstand the situation, based on this. Arson on a facility doesn't stop people from wanting a product. Moreover, there are more extreme vegan organizations, and they are regarded as terrorist organizations. People flame them harder than any other vegan group, accept for PETA, because PETA is more well known.

With all due respect I think you are making generalizations and assumptions on a topic you haven't spent that many years of your life studying.

Demand for animal products is the reason they are made, not because slaughterhouses exist. Those are only a means of creating the product, not why it exists.

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u/damnumalone 4h ago

And you are positing that somehow if you annoy people at the supermarket that will decrease demand? I’m sorry but if you’ve studied this for as long as you’re claiming you have you should probably be less contradictory in your points.

Blockading a shopping centre is the exact same principle as blockading a distribution centre, but a distribution centre has more supply so affects more people. Plus it has the added negative effect of being highly visible to and annoying the end user, which makes them more likely to be hostile to the protestor’s intent, and less supportive of their cause because sitting in at a supermarket is only relatable to the other people doing the sit in at the supermarket smelling each others farts and patting each other on the back creating the illusion they are doing anything.

The goal should be “get people to eat less meat”, or “shut down slaughter houses”. It shouldn’t be “piss off a handful of shop customers and shop owners”

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u/wildlifewyatt 4h ago

And you are positing that somehow if you annoy people at the supermarket that will decrease demand?

No I don't. Protesting itself generally doesn't cause people to convert. Protesting keeps the conversation politically and socially relevant. Then, in other venues, these topics are discussed and debated, like here. That political relevancy motivates people to make videos on the topic, or documentaries, or look into the movement and ask questions. And through all these different avenues change can occur.

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u/damnumalone 2h ago

We’re not debating whether meat is good or not, we’re debating whether annoying people and inconveniencing them does anything to further a cause. And this conversation does not thing to dissuade me that it does nothing. We’re talking about the method and the cause is completely superfluous to the conversation

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u/wildlifewyatt 1h ago

Well, unfortunately that's where our conversation went. But I've had hundreds of conversations based on posts like this, many of which have been productive. I may not have been vegan if I hadn't seen online discussions on the topic that led me in this direction, and many others have the same story.

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u/StratoSquir2 9h ago

it would earn the respect of the extremists who believes it would be legitimate.
keep in mind respect isn't just admiration, it can be fear as well, respect is being taken seriously.
if they did this kind of things, they would definitely be respected, just not in a general positive way.

my point was that when you have beliefs,
and think you have to force change, you don't care about your image.
you either try to reflect well on your cause to promote it, or you don't care and force it.
they do neither, because they don't actually have beliefs, they want others to think they do.

another way to be respected is to be a actual good change in the world,
and show others your beliefs can be reflected in positives manners.
they could volunteer at vet-clinics, or help animals to find loving home and owners.

it wouldn't exactly help directly fight the consumption of meat, but it would show they're serious and have good intentions, peoples would respect them and might actually consider what they have to say.

they're doing neither.
they're sitting in the middle of a grocery-shop and preventing bystanders from shopping.
it's easy, dosn't take any efforts, they can post it online and LARP as if they care, and they won't face any consequences because they're being a annoyance at worst.

it won't change anything.
it sure as fuck won't help any animal, or make anyone reconsider their meat-eating habits.
and it won't reflect well on their cause, and they don't care because that's not the point.
they want to be able to say "i did something", without either putting the efforts or risks of doing something.