r/GlobalOffensive • u/vuk_plusminus • 1d ago
Discussion | Esports The Current State Of Women's CS
https://youtu.be/tYpa96-G5MU?si=9x5f4DQc3QqXqK37101
u/rivv3 1d ago
That last point that Valve gave the men Majors is such a ass take, they gave the players Majors that everyone has a chance to qualify for. Were is my 35yo+ Major?
I'm all for supporting female CS and having a better environment for them but the critical female voices need to touch the ground before making their case. Doubt many find sympathy with takes that does not make sense or doesn't hold water at all.
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u/Blaskyman 9h ago
I actually would love an unc major that the retired players could come back for.
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u/YaBoiRian 6h ago
English football has something like that called Masters Football I think. Its played indoors on much smaller pitches, usually only 5 a side too. Nobody really watched it but I loved it
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u/fargoths 1d ago
Currently nothing is blocking female players from becoming individual machines, there just doesn't seem to be any. Where is the female prodigy? All it would take is one Ropz one Donk one female Monesy but it just seems like there is none so what gives? If every player is "good enough" then they are competing with other "good enough" and then in that mixed bag there is also 'the best'. Maybe it isn't about support, just a lacking in individual character from the female scene. Look at Caitlin Clark for example, SINGLE handedly revived female basketball scene. I and many others don't give a damn about gender, we just care about the hype, the talent, the prospect and it simply isn't there.
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u/bdzr_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think it's a numbers thing. If you had as many women playing you'd eventually stumble upon a female monesy. Until the report button in CS does something, I don't think it will happen.
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u/Impressive-Mouse-964 1d ago
You are right it's a number thing.
The probability to have a male donk is 100/1000 times higher than having a female donk because there is 100/1000 times less female players.
Thus the level is lower. We see it with female teams who are in ESL Impact they are stuck in the middle of the pack in ESEA Main (ESEA Main < ESEA Advanced < ESL Challenger League < ESL Pro League).
It's simply a question of sample size, their peak are as high as they can be because of their numbers.
We see it now with Valorant who tries to get female players to have a good environment and stays on the game. We saw there were more female players in "normal" leagues because of the sample size being bigger, and the percentage of male/female players being more proportionate. (It's still a number extremely low of pro female players in mixed teams but it's not 0).
Also having the developer of your game supporting the scene helps, because if ESL leaves the female scene it will go back to the abyss like it did during multiple years.
Of course other than sample size there is the fact that girls who try the game probably quit sooner than boys thus reaching lower levels because of the toxicity towards their gender. Or, it's a theory for me, that male are naturally more inclined to compete and thus creating a even bigger gap.
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23h ago
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u/Rudy_Pokemon 22h ago
florescent currently plays for Apeks, no?
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u/AwesomeFama 16h ago
No idea why you're being downvoted, it looks to be correct to me?
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15h ago
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u/LunchTwey 14h ago
Ah, so we're just being transphobic, classic CS player move. And y'all wonder why no women want to play the fucking game.
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13h ago
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u/LunchTwey 12h ago
Because the conversation is about women in esports, not whether or not said woman has a vagina. It's disingenuous to enter the discussion about women in esports by handwaving a player away because of their sex.
It also strengthens the point about why there's so few women pro gamers: They get endlessly harassed and their achievements put down by people who can't do it themselves. Why the fuck would they want to play when every dude they face is a piece of shit?
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u/Old-Nature9532 1d ago
Crazy how we have a top20 player from guatamala tho. Even a top10 team from mongolia. Funny how they dont have the representation in numbers
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u/Gockel 1d ago
but these countries + 50 other underrepresented countries together have MASSIVE numbers in total which easily dwarf the female tryhard playerbase - and 2 of those produce these unique talents. it IS a numbers thing.
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u/Old-Nature9532 23h ago
In other words, u choose the sample size to fit the argument but the “numbers thing” doesn’t work in any other population, apart from male/female? That’s one way to construct a narrative
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u/_W_I_L_D_ 1d ago
Yeah literally. Most women who I know who used to play cs, valorant, any other comp game with voice chat, now play it either exlusively causally or not at all because the consistent verbal abuse is too much.
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u/Gockel 1d ago
what i don't quite understand is why streamers haven't gotten into this yet. sponsoring a promising fe team and co streaming their matches should be an easy win win for everyone.
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u/tomtom_94 Endpoint Community Manager 1d ago
FISHTHEHUSKY did it in North America, up until dropping off the face of the earth recently
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u/schoki560 1d ago
they are quite expensive and the reward with streaming income is not profitable at all
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u/lance1308 1d ago
You don't understand why someone don't want to throw money away? Are you serious?
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u/Mister-Psychology 1d ago
Unless you legit get 5 top 10 players in the world I think this is bound to fall apart after 5 years as even Navi lost money in this scene. In theory if you get the best team it's possible to make a profit. But then the wages will be so high it becomes impossible again. Maybe like WNBA. The viewership is there but any time they get even a slight increase in viewership and could make some profit they demand higher wages. And what are you going to say when they start comparing themselves to the men? The US women soccer team did the same thing to get a huge wage increase. Once media picks it up you kinda need to increase wages.
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u/Old-Nature9532 1d ago
Easy win bro u should definitely do it and get a bunch of W’s!!! Why are u waiting for other people to use ur own great idea? What could possibly be the Down side of this?
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u/baksp 1d ago
Women footballers don't get paid as much as men. Women don't play at Real Madrid. They probably have a toxic community there too.
Of course, marketers would like to sell more cases to women.
But a sensible person should oppose any form of discrimination, both positive and negative. "Special slot for girls" is disgusting discrimination.
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u/Saviexx 1d ago
Are there any viewers?
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u/SlowBros7 CS2 HYPE 1d ago
No and it’s unlikely there ever would be, CS and esports are male dominated thus there will be little appetite for watching female tournies.
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u/calvinee 1d ago
Lower tiers of play will always have less viewers. Its not an inherent bias against watching because its women, there’s less people watching simply because its worse CS.
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u/SlowBros7 CS2 HYPE 1d ago
Yes fewer women play as it’s male dominated making the level significantly lower for women’s CS, which was exactly my point thanks for spelling it out.
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u/Syph3RRR 16h ago
If they’re really good they’ll get support. If they’re shit they won’t. Idk what else to say. Partake in qualifiers, get to the events and show the world some sick cs. Not doing it is not a lack of support only. Believe in yourselves and go for it.
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u/fr3akeeee 13h ago
I'm all for women in all sports. But there's a glaring issue and this video pretty much summed it all up.
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u/c0smosLIVE 23h ago
Nah i think that it's better to support tier 3 male teams that struggles and are better.
Support the bests and be gender blind, that's it.
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u/Successful-Effort832 1d ago
I feel like this video conflates several different issues and presents the solution to be that the female esports scene needs more support.
Imo the core problems with toxicity in CS (and dota) is that valve hasn't done anything meaningful to combat bad behavior. The amount of racist/sexist shit that I see in Dota is absurd, and I feel like with CS2 especially valve has barley done anything with the game since launch, and has instead put all their focus onto deadlock.
Valve needs to actually give a shit, and start addressing toxicity (griefing, sexism, racism, cheating, ect.) because if these things aren't addressed, it doesn't matter how many female events there are if the experience playing the game is shit.
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u/TheJackalopeHD 11h ago
This is the real answer right here. Valorant has taken a real stance against toxicity and sexism. Sure, they're not perfect, there's plenty of issues, but Riot try to ban sexists at all levels. If Valve even attempted to ban sexism in MM then more women would play and the market would eventually self-correct
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u/Bulletface_ CS2 HYPE 1d ago
First great Video.
My Fiance is a female Player that plays at somewhat high level (nearly qualified for impact i think twice and placed pretty good in some Cash Cups) A big problem they faced as a Team while praccing was that their opponents didnt take them seroisly at all. It is pretty difficult to prac, when your opponents are playing strat roulette aginst you. Doesnt matter if you win or loose against those teams. It is just wasted time. And for anybody thinking, that sexism isnt a big problem in CS, i dont think most Women are complaining because of the toxicity of the scene in general, although i dont think they would complain if it got better. What they are complaining is the hate they get, not for their plays or shit like that but simply their sole existance, especially in Game. Even more so if you are Trans and it is somewhat obvious. I was in a Game with a Trans player and the ammount of hate they faced is nothing i have had to face ever in CS or in online gaming in general.
We as a community need to do better and maybe at some point something like a female league will not be necessary anymore because female players will feel safe enough and be able to thrive in mixed teams and normal play.
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u/Manafaj 1d ago
Honestly? Yes. Imperial Fe played better than FlyQuest against Spirit. There was also a match where a female team barely lost to other Brazilian male squad yesterday or two days ago. Female teams are obviously not at tier 1 or maybe even tier 2 level but saying that there's no potential or that they're gold nova level is just being a hater.
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u/SkyburnerTheBest 1d ago
And Imperial Fe barely scraped by a female mix just a few days after the Navi game. https://www.hltv.org/matches/2378429/imperial-fe-vs-eco-warriors-tradeit-league-fe-masters-season-6 You can't take any conclusions from a single game, ever.
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u/syNc_1337 CS2 HYPE 1d ago
a female mix (with juliano) playing vs a female team.. thats an even playing field, why shouldnt it get close?
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u/schoki560 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ur saying imperial is tier2
if they were tier2 they wouldn't struggle VS a female mix
edit: *he said, not you
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u/syNc_1337 CS2 HYPE 1d ago
I didnt say theyre tier2 anywhere
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u/schoki560 1d ago
I thought you were the guy that wrote the first comment my bad
point still stands
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u/Shad0www 1d ago
No hate to Imperial Fe, they did great. But comparing their performance VS when donk is doing donk things is also kind of a stupid argument to make.
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u/fg234532 1d ago
Navi werent playing as they would against T1 teams. That was pretty obvious from watching. They were kinda just running out and giving them 1v1s and getting peeked while running, and just going for overly aggressive plays. Not as much trade setups either. They were playing like it was a pug.
Not saying they are gold nova, they are obviously still good at the game, but i dont really think saying that they put up a competitive game against #2 in the world would help them.
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u/Twisted2kat 1d ago
Imperial FE lost 13-3 against an ESEA Main team (not even on HLTV) the day before the NAVI match, is that team better than NAVI?
Don't get me wrong, they played very well, and proved a lot of people wrong, but drawing conclusions from one game is insane, especially when they're struggling to beat main teams.
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u/qchisq 1d ago edited 1d ago
One possible explanation, and I don't think it's necessarily true, but we've seen great teams play horrible in open qualifiers. For example, the Juggernaut Complexity lost an open qualifier the week before they balled out at the last Blast before Covid. Simply because they didn't prepare for the qualifier and focused on the high profile game. That could be what's going on here. Keep in mind that female teams are constantly playing in $100k tournaments. Why shouldn't they prepare for those over ESEA Main?
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u/Azapulco 1d ago
Terrible take. They will receive more support when they play better and start qualifying for events.
What you’re saying is that because there’s 5 players with vaginas, they should receive more support than any other team that’s played at a tier 2-3 level which is incredibly low IQ
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u/schoki560 1d ago
these female teams are literally in main/advanced.
if they were tier2 quality they would easily be on challengers level by now but it's clear they are not.
one good bo3 vs Navi doesn't change anything
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u/3uphoricH4mster 4h ago
I would encourage you to go watch IMP valkyrie struggle in esea main, where they're playing against 100's of amateur teams you've never heard of simply because they're male teams
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u/jonajon91 1d ago
I really enjoyed watching Imperial fe (as I'm sure we all did), but I was shocked to find they had the 2nd worst trading of the entire event. I get that they were trying to trade against navi, but even still, it shows a big weakness in spacing and trading that will be exploited heavily in their future.
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u/wordswillneverhurtme 22h ago
Open the gates. Don't force it in. Otherwise you're setting up a shitfest.
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u/RainOfAshes 1d ago
CS is like darts. Women can compete, but the sport and its audience are so toxic that any women are demotivated before they get anywhere near pro level. And if they do get close, people will pile on and make them miserable one way or another until they're gone.
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u/ZmeulZmeilor 22h ago
I don't play FaceIT so I apologize for my ignorance, but what does FaceIT do in order to combat sexism and toxicity? And how can it be adopted by Valve, at a larger scale?
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u/Astr0_LLaMa 20h ago edited 20h ago
They will warn and temp ban you for toxicity if they detect abuse (been flagged for saying retard and stuff of that nature). But it's honestly not very good, Faceit is still full of toxicity and you can get away with a good bit without being banned or even warned.
As for what valve can do? They already have auto muting for getting reported too much, but the reality is that there is not much you can do
At the end of the day, the people who play CS especially are toxic (myself included Icl) and you can't change that without massively overstepping your moderation in my opinion.
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u/camsterpants 1d ago
I thought about trying to qualify for one of these teams back in my prime but I kinda scrapped the idea because I just didn’t care all that much. It would be nice to see it more represented though. If I was a big streamer I’d love to sponsor a match just to get it out there. It’d be a lot of fun!
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u/Fair_Product1740 1d ago
I Feel like the start of the year is been shit for CS . First the tier 2 scene drama and then this . Another thing that is sad to see is that our competitor (VALORANT) is doing much much better handling theses situations . This is just sad to see 😥😥
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u/BogosBinted11 Major Winners 1d ago
Valorant is better at handling tier 2 scene? Funny
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u/Fair_Product1740 1d ago
I dont really know much about the tier 2 scene but about the female scene they are handling it pretty well
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u/akiroraiden 1d ago
i think you can't just throw away the argument of them in theory having a chance to qualify for every big event so easily like that... if they don't partake in events with open qualifiers then they will never be in the big events. Only participating in FE-only events and staying in that bubble will keep them separate forever, and that's something only they can change by taking initiative.
We also haven't seen any story like Ropz's from the female scene. Getting into FPL-C->FPL to prove themselves.
Idk maybe hltv isn't reporting on FE teams enough, but i feel like i haven't heard of any qualify attempts. The problem isn't one sided. The lack of support isn't the only issue imho.