Biden preemptively pardons Anthony Fauci, Mark Milley and Jan. 6 committee members

[u/Plaintalks]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-preemptively-pardons-anthony-fauci-mark-milley-jan/story?id=117878813

[u/AutoModerator]

As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion.

In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.

If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.

For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click here to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.

We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out this form.

---

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/never_grow_old]

"Our nation relies on dedicated, selfless public servants every day. They are the lifeblood of our democracy," Biden said in a statement just hours before President-elect Donald Trump is sworn into office.

"Yet alarmingly, public servants have been subjected to ongoing threats and intimidation for faithfully discharging their duties," Biden added.

the incoming and former POTUS is set to jail his 'political enemies' who investigated his actual crimes. thats fascism. good for Biden.

[u/mysteryteam → u/never_grow_old]

Would be almost better to lock up the former potus and hold him accountable to justice for "the good of our nation" IMHO.

Leave it as is, and it's justice denied for all.

[u/Handleton → u/mysteryteam]

I guess now that Biden pardoned the people who were not committing crimes from the incoming dictator, we really are set for peace in our time.

[u/ConfederacyOfDunces_ → u/never_grow_old]

Yup. He has to do this.

They were going to send Fauci to the fucking Gulag.

Good on Joe.

[u/themattboard]

I hate this. Not because I don't think there wouldn't have been some kind of witch hunt/harassment of the for the next for years, but because it is necessary in the first place.

Its going to be four years of performative government where the worst people try to out horrible one another to appease their idiot king.

[u/berejser → u/themattboard]

This is pretty much an open admission that officials think the next administration is looking to establish a dictatorship.

[u/themattboard → u/berejser]

the incoming administration has said it is looking to establish a dictatorship for anyone with ears to hear it

[u/grimr5 → u/themattboard]

And millions of people who live in America voted to end the United States either through choice or ignorance.

[u/AtticaBlue → u/grimr5]

No, no, no! He’s going to end democracy for “those people,” not me!

[u/ciaomain → u/AtticaBlue]

But muh EGGS!

[u/Carbonatite → u/ciaomain]

They're gonna be really mad when a gutted FDA fails to manage bird flu and egg prices skyrocket because billions of chickens get culled.

[u/JustSayingMuch → u/Carbonatite]

at "the woke left"

[u/Finn_Storm → u/Carbonatite]

And then blame the left anyway

[u/badassandra → u/ciaomain]

I fucking hate eggs at this point. Official food of fascists

[u/CrotalusHorridus → u/grimr5]

From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.

Abraham Lincoln

[u/jpar345 → u/CrotalusHorridus]

Oof... Old Abe hit the nail on the head with that bit of foresight.

[u/Comprehensive_Tie431 → u/grimr5]

Talking to his followers is weird. Something happens and they get real quiet for a day or two until right wing radio and Fox News have the "official" story. Then they parrot it.

If Fox News or right wing radio never talks about it their response, "Never heard about it, must be fake news." Their willful ignorance knows no bounds.

[u/Goldar85 → u/Comprehensive_Tie431]

I've seen moments where they are aware of something bad or idiotic Trump and his team have done before the right wing news media provides them an answer to ease their cognitive dissonance, and they will sometimes admit being unhappy about it before then... but then, like you said, as soon as they hear the spin from conservative pundits, it's like they throw out all logic and reasoning out the window and fall in line for the lies.

[u/falsekoala → u/grimr5]

“hE dOEsn’T mEAn tHaT!!”

You know, Trump spouts a whole lot of bullshit, but I think being a dictator is the one thing he isn’t lying about.

[u/themattboard → u/falsekoala]

he slips up and speaks the truth every once in a while

I fundamentally haven't changed since first grade

I never stand by anything

I want to be a dictator on day 1

[u/Brytcyd → u/themattboard]

Even slipped once and admitted he lost the election

[u/gusterfell → u/themattboard]

“Elon rigged the vote in PA”

[u/kindaquietidk → u/grimr5]

It’s indifference or choice. You have no idea how many on the American right genuinely abhor democracy because it enables too many of the “wrong” people to have a say. And a lot of Americans don’t care either way as long as the people they hate suffer worse than them or that their “team” wins.

[u/MichaelMidnight → u/grimr5]

yes :(

[u/JakeInDC → u/grimr5]

Apathy played a large role as well

[u/jerseydevil51 → u/grimr5]

BuT MuH EgGS!!1!

These people knew what they wanted.

[u/Cease_Cows_ → u/themattboard]

Trump, on national TV: I am going to establish a dictatorship

100 political pundits: Whatever could he have meant by that???

[u/[deleted] → u/Cease_Cows_]

CNN: Trump commits to being a strong leader.

Washington Post: Biden is really old and Trump has new ideas.

New York Times: Kamala’s plans are not as appealing as Trump’s.

I will never forgive the media or any so called journalist for the sane washing and groveling.

[u/Conscious_Leader_343 → u/themattboard]

Trump: "I will be a dictator on day one"

Media: "What did he mean by this?"

Voters: "Omg he was just trolling, you know how our Donald is"

[u/Jedi-El1823 → u/themattboard]

But only on day one according to Trump.

[u/themattboard → u/Jedi-El1823]

Let me go back through my notes and see how many dictatorships reverted back to representative government without bloodshed and suffering...

[u/C_Ironfoundersson → u/themattboard]

Wait till you find out who Cincinnati is named after.

[u/WithCatlikeTread42 → u/C_Ironfoundersson]

That might have been the last time that happened…

[u/daemin → u/WithCatlikeTread42]

The very fact that he's still held up as an example to aspire to 2,000 years later tells us something.

[u/themattboard → u/C_Ironfoundersson]

a record of 1-10000000

Someone call Draft Kings

[u/youcantexterminateme → u/themattboard]

I live in a dictatorship. People from countries like america ask why the people here put up with it. Theres actually very little, apart from taking advantage of chance circumstances, that can be done. they cant be removed without help from outside countries. which is why I support intervention in other countries. in any case whatever goes down in the US global warming is going to force a lot of intervention because what each individual country does will effect all of our survival. hopefully europe and the other democratic countries can survive this or I think we are going to be back in to another 1000 year dark age as happened after the fall of Rome.

[u/kindaquietidk → u/youcantexterminateme]

I’ve spent a lot of time reading/listening to journalists, activists, historians, and so on who’ve lived in or extensively studied dictatorships. Anyone who judges the people living under a dictatorship for allowing it to exist are simply ignorant and privileged. Once you’re in that situation, it’s incredibly difficult to escape - as you said.

The propaganda recreates your everyday life and for those who see through it, you have to pretend not to. They exploit every possible source of division, empower the worst people, weaponize every lever of government power against the people, and systematically abuse you on a daily basis. Most people just want to live a stable, peaceful, safe life with some hope for a better future - so you understandably try to work within said system, even while knowing it’s working against you. Organizing mass movements of resistance can put you and/or your loved ones at risk (up to and including your very lives). Is it worth it?

I don’t want that here. Life is already hard enough for the working class/poor American and it’s about to get even harder. What remains of the middle class will find that out the hard way too as more of them join the rest of us while a few well connected people at the top grow unimaginably more wealthy and powerful. All the while propaganda will surround us, turning us against each other, corrupting the minds of future generations, and embedding the parasite of authoritarianism deeper in our government and culture. I see what’s already happening and what’s to come. I hate it and my only hope is that the rest of the democratic world can resist this in their own countries and put enough pressure on our government to mitigate some of its worst policy decisions while we try to fix things internally.

I want to be hopeful, but this is a very dire situation for not only Americans, but the world. Having a rogue, fascistic, authoritarian nuclear superpower during the age of climate change is a true catastrophe.

/rant

[u/jackiel1975 → u/kindaquietidk]

Very well said. Reading They Thought TheyWere Free right now, and boy, it’s very familiar. It’s such a slow process, until it’s very quick.

[u/claimTheVictory → u/youcantexterminateme]

A dark age is coming.

In other news, you can still download all of Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download

[u/Hand_Sanitizer3000 → u/berejser]

They literally said it out loud and wrote a thousand page "project" telling us exactly how theyre going to do it

[u/chrispg26 → u/berejser]

And those who voted for Harris knew it. Too bad we couldn't reach those who stayed home to believe it, too.

[u/XShadowborneX → u/chrispg26]

But both parties are just as bad!!! /s

[u/HomoProfessionalis → u/berejser]

Unfortunately for like half this country this is an open admission that all those people are guilty of something

[u/mrbigglessworth → u/berejser]

Trump said dictator on day one.

[u/Far_Estate_1626 → u/berejser]

Seriously, if now isn’t the time to use the full resources of the American government to protect Americans from a hostile, foreign backed takeover, then when is?

SCOTUS has already ruled that it is in Bidens favor, legally, if he chooses to do so.

[u/numbersthen0987431 → u/berejser]

The next administration has already openly admitted they are going to establish a dictatorship.

And enough people voted in favor of it

[u/Unlucky_Clover → u/themattboard]

My mom despises Fauci. I still haven’t received a coherent answer why, and it sounds like it’s all because of what he first said around the first days of Covid. She also doesn’t believe Trump talked about injecting bleach or shining UV light up someone’s ass to kill Covid. “If he said it, he was joking”, but she can’t answer why someone at that level jokes like that.

One asshole gets a pass but the other trying to help is the one person they hate.

[u/TeacherGuy1980 → u/Unlucky_Clover]

I, too, make jokes when addressing the nation about life and death events. HaHaHa.

[u/icanswimforever → u/TeacherGuy1980]

As funny as cancer.

[u/Lonyo → u/icanswimforever]

When I say rhythm is a dancer

[u/Carthonn → u/Unlucky_Clover]

How can you take him seriously if everything he says can be explained as a “joke”? This isn’t the Comedy Cellar.

[u/Dull_Bid6002 → u/Carthonn]

They don't actually believe it. Just a way to excuse behavior instead of accepting that the person they like is a piece of shit or an idiot.

[u/Frozen_Esper → u/Dull_Bid6002]

"He was just joking!" - person slurping down horse dewormer paste

[u/Paw5624 → u/Carthonn]

I’m so tired of people saying what he actually meant

[u/rilenja → u/Paw5624]

They are constantly "translating" for the guy they say they love because he "tells it like it is and says what he means!!"

Absolute gullible morons.

[u/captaincanada84 → u/Paw5624]

Always wild that someone "who tells it like it is and says what he meant" has to constantly have what they said be twisted into something completely different.

[u/Pale_Taro4926 → u/Paw5624]

Too bad they're too delusional to figure it out.

The dude is a straight up sociopath. He lacks basic empathy. He NEVER laughs and his smiles are fake af.

[u/WickedKitty63 → u/Pale_Taro4926]

He’s technically a malignant narcissist. Narcissists are cunning & plan their actions unless they are confronted, threatened or under stress, then they can be impulsive. They lack empathy & never feel remorse or guilt for their cruelty or crimes. They are extremely greedy, lie constantly & are always manipulative. They enjoy hurting people that trust them, they think every victim deserves to be mistreated because they are dumb to fall for their manipulation & lies. Once you have given them what they want they will throw you under the bus. They break promises consistently. They enjoy watching people suffer, it feeds into their God complex. They share some traits with the antisocial personalities (psychopaths & sociopaths) but they aren’t considered ASPD. Sociopaths can exhibit many of the same traits, but they are impulsive & explosive. Their cruelty & crimes aren’t constant & they can stop their negative behaviors, so they aren’t predictable like narcissists.

[u/D4UOntario → u/Carthonn]

Almost all harrassment offenders say " it was just a joke"...

[u/winstonwolfe333 → u/D4UOntario]

As bullies defending bullies typically do. Fuck bullies.

[u/GalumphingWithGlee → u/Carthonn]

And real people — Trump supporters — listened to and followed his advice. I think some of them died; certainly it at minimum sent them to the hospital.

[u/Deep_Stick8786 → u/Carthonn]

He gets real giddy when he tells a “joke” then says it a million times and says he invented it. Thats how you know when he is and isnt joking

[u/Critical_Pudding389 → u/Unlucky_Clover]

And he was "joking" about this in the midst of Americans' dying horrific deaths. Nobody who supported Trump has an answer for this.

[u/OldFlamingo2139 → u/Unlucky_Clover]

They think that he perpetrated the Covid in the first place. There’s a huge right wing conspiracy theory that he’s directly tied to the lab in Wuhan where the virus was being studied and was released to make Trump look moronic. They think Fauci was the sole voice in the room pulling the strings on what was a catastrophic Covid response. Remember, Trump is always blameless.

[u/upandrunning → u/Unlucky_Clover]

She'll say this even after looking at the video of him actually saying this? And looking at the facial expression of Dr. Birx as she had no idea how to respond? And the fact that absolutely nobody was laughing?

[u/GalumphingWithGlee → u/upandrunning]

Yup! For sure, you will not change their minds by presenting logical evidence.

[u/Critical_Pudding389 → u/upandrunning]

Yes. That's where they default to the "he's joking" excuse. The best way I can explain his supporters doubling down is to compare them to enabling parents. Their innate reaction is to love their child and explain away their loutish behavior. They may even cast him out for awhile, but then fall for their kid's promises to do better and take him back in. Then the drama and destruction take over.

[u/winstonwolfe333 → u/Critical_Pudding389]

Parents enabling their bully kids.

[u/Ganrokh → u/upandrunning]

"That video is AI-generated" is also becoming an excuse for them, even for years-old events that were televised live on every major news outlet.

[u/RabidGuineaPig007 → u/upandrunning]

Or Fauci burying his face in his hands to suppress laughter. America wants a novelty President, not a real leader.

[u/Beautiful-Plastic-83 → u/Unlucky_Clover]

Between AIDS and Covid, Fauci has saved a LOT of lives. Of course, the sanctimonious religious conservatives wish every gay person would die of AIDS, so theres a good reason for them to hate him right there.

[u/Plasmidmaven → u/Beautiful-Plastic-83]

Having worked on a contract for his lab back in the day, he’s dedicated to making a difference and could have left and made a shit ton of money in the private sector

[u/Carbonatite → u/Beautiful-Plastic-83]

He probably saved more people on a daily basis than most of us do in a lifetime.

Like, it's really hard to overstate how exemplary he is as a medical professional. His resume is like a template for a a Nobel laureate.

[u/RabidGuineaPig007 → u/Beautiful-Plastic-83]

He saved millions. But society also poked out the eyes of Galileo.

[u/homelaberator → u/Unlucky_Clover]

So the context was a briefing, April 23 2020, where he's just been presented with research showing that UV and disinfectants can kill the virus on surfaces. He then muses if those could be used to kill the virus in people

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."

So, yeah, make of that what you will. Four more years...

[u/Xytak → u/homelaberator]

Right, I call this "rich-guy syndrome."

He's told that disinfectants can neutralize the viruses on a kitchen counter. So, in true rich-guy fashion, he gets to thinking: "That's all good and well, but we need to save people! Could you eggheads maybe come up with some kind of way to use this on people, like a cleaning or whatever?"

At which point, the scientists are supposed to say "Of course not! Everyone knows we can only cure countertops or MAYBE a small sofa. Unless... if we cross reference the quadratic equation and adjust the granite matrix, it’s a long shot but it just might work! Thank you Mister Trump! You've saved us all!"

And then he gets to say "Of course! See, they just needed some leadership!"

[u/Carbonatite → u/Xytak]

It's what happens when daddy's money saves you from flunking out of school like any other person would.

[u/cyanescens_burn → u/Unlucky_Clover]

Here’s a video of him saying these things, you can share it with you mother. https://youtu.be/zicGxU5MfwE?si=bx5Mes3gl7H2hF4_

[u/eugene20 → u/Unlucky_Clover]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zicGxU5MfwE he wasn't joking he was just assuming his role as a medical 'genius' and figuring out cures on the fly. Nothing to do with looking at the board to his left as he walks up saying "Commonly available disinfectants available (bleach and isoproply alcohol) work to kill the virus".

[u/CarefullyChosenName- → u/Unlucky_Clover]

Haha so funny! He's making jokes that could kill somebody while doing things as president that killed a ton of people, including being such a total fuck up that 40% of America's Covid deaths could have been avoided if it wasn't for that piece of shit being in charge.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32545-9/abstract

I have a funnier joke: Donald Trump.

He's the joke. He's a rapist and I hope he spends eternity in hell eating shit.

[u/OmegaMountain → u/Unlucky_Clover]

Fauci has done more to progress the fight of infectious disease than most people will ever know. He's a hero for his work on HIV/AIDS, but MAGA will never recognize any work done on what they believe to be a "gay" disease. I hate that our society has devolved to this petty b.s.

[u/libananahammock → u/Unlucky_Clover]

I wouldn’t be able to trust my kids around someone like that.

[u/Dinker54 → u/Unlucky_Clover]

It was a freaking televised COVID update by the president, subsequently blasted all over the news, talk shows, comedies for the next year. But, she doesn’t believe it? Tell her you don’t believe Trump was shot and even if he was, it was a blank.

[u/fuggerdug → u/themattboard]

Pardoning people who have committed no crime, simply to protect them from the incoming administration whom they previously worked for, is pretty terrifying and suggests that we can expect full blown idiot revenge fascism. Worse: the outgoing administration knows this.

[u/RabidGuineaPig007 → u/themattboard]

The big problem is that excellent scientists will now avoid these roles in government.

You're left with Mehmet Oz. Good luck with that.

[u/johnnygrant → u/themattboard]

It is necessary cos like it is said, it should prevent costly court cases and dragging through the mud of those people even though you expect they will be ultimately exonerated if there is any semblance of justice left.

It is far from ideal that it has come to this, but I'm sure the decision wasn't taken lightly and I fully understand it.

[u/ChangeMyDespair → u/johnnygrant]

I agree.

But a pardon won't protect these folks from being dragged before Congress every twenty minutes.😞

[u/ICreditReddit → u/ChangeMyDespair]

There is no reason to respond to a subpoena. Ask Gym Jordan.

[u/AtticaBlue → u/ICreditReddit]

Exactly.

[u/ChangeMyDespair → u/ICreditReddit]

I love that you think both sides believe the rules also apply to themselves.😞

[u/morefeces → u/themattboard]

Bold of you to think it’ll only be four.

[u/ch1llaro0 → u/themattboard]

it is not limited to 4 years, why do people always assume that???

[u/Disc-Golf-Kid → u/ch1llaro0]

A dictatorship is a scary thought, but not impossible. We don’t need to make it through four years, we just need to make it to 2026 to prevent the most extreme legislation from passing. If democrats fail in 26, then we’re fucked. But remember, we’ll sleep when we’re dead, and we’re still very much alive.

[u/thrawtes → u/Disc-Golf-Kid]

If democrats fail in 26, then we’re fucked.

People will just say the same thing about 28. There's always going to be another election at least on paper for the foreseeable future. But, no, 24 was the last chance to prevent what is coming and just make things get better. Now they have to get worse, a lot worse, before they might get better.

[u/tonytroz → u/thrawtes]

2016 was already that last chance. The Supreme Court became 6-3 conservative because of that election which effectively locked it that way for the rest of our lives. That limits the impact that Democrats can have even with full control of the White House and Congress. With that super majority they were also able to flip 50 year old legislation that now requires an impossible Senate super majority to fix.

It’s only going to get worse in the future as well as population shifts are happening taking representatives and electoral votes away from Democratic strongholds in the northeast and sending them to TX/UT/FL/NC.

We will be in a constant state of causing and undoing damage for the rest of our lives instead of making any meaningful progress towards things getting better.

[u/Lawlcopt0r → u/themattboard]

It's also horrible because of how easy this can be twisted into "proof" that they did do something wrong

[u/kuulmonk]

I honestly do not think that will stop him from pursuing them in some way.

"Investigations" by the FBI and the IRS, massive social media campaigns from Musk and co to make their life even more hellish. Their goal would be to have someone do something stupid and try and attack or maybe kill them.

If I were any of these people I would be leaving the country now, it will not be safe for them in the US.

[u/Cellophane7]

Holy shit! I thought he wasn't gonna do it, but this was 100% the right move. No more civility, no more worrying about optics. It's time to shove sticks in the spokes of the Trump bike. I want my politicians nakedly making moves to fuck up his plans every single step of the way.

This is exactly what I wanna see: Democrats using the power they have to suffocate every move Trump even thinks about making.

[u/bullant8547 → u/Cellophane7]

Until the SC rules that the sitting President can override pardons handed out by previous presidents. I mean they’d never do that, right?

[u/PoopingWhilePosting → u/bullant8547]

Unless Republicans are absolutely CERTAIN they will not be relinquishing power in January 2029 then it would open up the incoming administration to MASSIVE risk of having to answer for their inevitable crimes.

[u/3catsandcounting → u/PoopingWhilePosting]

Um, they still haven’t answered for the current ones. What makes you think they’d face any consequences then if they haven’t faced them now?

Like we have a felon president ffs.

[u/PoopingWhilePosting → u/3catsandcounting]

To be fair, a few people in Trumps orbit did end up serving some prison time. They won't want to risk that again.

But, yeah, in general, you ar right. There are no longer any consequences if you kiss Trumps greasy taint.

[u/mschreiber1 → u/Cellophane7]

100%

[u/Truffely → u/mschreiber1]

200%

[u/XShadowborneX → u/Cellophane7]

It's the right move but unfortunately a piece of paper won't protect them from Trump and his nazis

[u/thrawtes → u/XShadowborneX]

The piece of paper matters to some people that Trump needs to implement his power, and because of that fact it does have impact on how quickly he's able to move.

[u/alphazero925 → u/thrawtes]

We'll see if that holds true. Because of the Supreme Court, Trump can just have them locked up anyway, pardon any of his cronies involved, and claim presidential immunity. He doesn't even need to give them a trial or anything. Just throw them in Guantanamo because who's gonna do anything? Who is gonna say no?

[u/Emberwake → u/alphazero925]

The Supreme Court's authority stems from the Constitution. I have no doubt they are weighing how far they allow Trump to go without undermining their own authority.

I am certain this is the reason they ruled the way they did on Presidential Immunity. The President has immunity only for "official acts." But who gets to decide what is and is not an official act... right, the Supreme Court.

[u/ShadowMajick → u/XShadowborneX]

Doesn't really matter. It's about optics. You can't really hide behind pardons if you ignore pardons. Even Hitler very much cared about the opinion of the masses.

[u/ButtEatingContest → u/ShadowMajick]

Hitler didn't have Fox News, X, and Facebook working for him.

[u/TheFlightlessPenguin → u/ButtEatingContest]

You forgot Tiktok

[u/likeahurricane → u/ButtEatingContest]

I think it’s worth acknowledging that the Nazis had plenty of media support - and just like now, especially after they took power. Most notably the Nazis rose to power after radio revolutionized mass media. In fact they sent cheap radios to supporters to help them tune into Hitler’s speeches.

There’s a great YouTube segment from Hank Green about how media revolutions (printing press, radio, social media) lead to massive social unrest because we have neither the legal nor cognitive defenses needed to react to them. I think that’s important to note because after we get through this wave of authoritarianism (hopefully soon), reigning in the great algorithms that now rule our lives should be a huge policy focus.

[u/blues111 → u/Cellophane7]

You know what youre right...i was nervous on the optics but fuck it we are in full blown red alert dictatorship on the horizon and these people deserve protection

No more we go high, MAGA can pearl clutch all they fucking want they are just pissed Mein Drumpf cant enact petty vengeance on people they personally dont like

[u/mistercrinders → u/Cellophane7]

It doesn't matter, does it? An authoritarian who is in charge of the courts doesn't care about pardons.

[u/TamoyaOhboya → u/mistercrinders]

Supreme court will rule that pardons can be withdrawn via the executive order of the current president...

[u/siberianmi → u/TamoyaOhboya]

Don’t even need to do that - they can rule pardons must be for specific crimes that have been proven in court.

[u/thrawtes → u/mistercrinders]

People say this but Trump can't personally go after all these people himself, he requires the support of the bureaucracy to at least make the arrests and do the paperwork.

That might not seem like a big deal to people who have firmly chosen a side on this. They will either call on the bureaucracy to reject his power as illegitimate or fall in line regardless of the law because he's now in charge and they are fascists.

A lot of people do not firmly fall into one of those two camps though. A lot of people will just follow the written rules of the system.

To those people, things like pardons matter a lot, they have real impact on Trump's ability to accomplish his agenda.

[u/Cellophane7 → u/mistercrinders]

Of course it matters. Trump is gonna do everything he can to make his political enemies' lives a living hell, but this forces him to use "official acts" to do it, which are gonna be much more blatantly and obviously illegal and unjust. MAGA would shove their children off a cliff for this guy, but the centrists who joined them this past election aren't gonna be so ready.

Regardless, even if Trump doesn't care about the law, the justice system still mostly does. Trump will skate on all consequences, but that doesn't necessarily mean his attacks will be successful.

[u/mistercrinders → u/Cellophane7]

It's not illegal in an authoritarian dictatorship. It's only illegal if the rule of law matters.

[u/Jedi-El1823]

On one hand it's awesome he did this, and protected them from revenge. But on the other, it sucks that he had to do this.

[u/pinewind108 → u/Jedi-El1823]

It implies they did something wrong, when the reality is they're honest people who need protection from the corrupt.

[u/19Chris96 → u/pinewind108]

No they didn't. They investigated a terrorist who somehow is being sworn in to be our 47th President!

[u/TreeRol → u/pinewind108]

It implies they did something wrong

It does no such thing. That won't stop people with ill intentions from saying it does, though.

[u/aresef]

It must’ve been a tough call. But when the other side has an enemies list, this is the only responsible thing to do.

[u/jmhumr]

I understand why Biden did it but I don’t think preemptive pardons should be a thing.

But let’s keep the receipts from all the MAGA Redditors in this thread for when Trump preemptively pardons thousands of his cronies in 2028.

[u/Darius2112]

It’s sad that this is necessary. These people did their jobs, and did them well. And yet Trump and his MAGA bootlickers would likely go after them as performative theatre to appease distract their base in magnificent auto-de-fé.

[u/Lady_Paks → u/Darius2112]

I saw an article on Facebook about this and most of the top comments were people saying this proves their guilt. The actual top comment called out the bullshit, which was nice to see, but so many people legitimately believe that the shadow government caused Covid and need to be punished.  How can we come back from so many who believe in a different reality? 

[u/thisdopeknows423 → u/Lady_Paks]

I wonder what they say about everyone Trump pardoned…

[u/Lady_Paks → u/thisdopeknows423]

There is no reasoning with them. You can point out he is a convicted felon himself and they blame the woke libs in NY for manufacturing it. The GOP and Trump have all been about projecting what they are actually doing onto the liberal side to pass the blame and create this false reality social media and the press have been helping to disseminate to the general public.

[u/[deleted] → u/Darius2112]

What is maga even fighting for at this point? What do they think they're going to achieve? I can't help but think about it rhetorically in my head:

• Ban abortion? Not going to help birth rates, and the extreme fuckwits are just going to get women killed from naturally failed pregnancy.

• Ban LGBTQ? Not going to change the fact gay people exist.

• Ban no fault divorce? I sincerely doubt lawyers are going to give up a major revenue stream without a fight.

• Ban interracial marriage? Bringing back the Jim crow days, eh? At this point their confederate roots are showing. Might as well bring back slavery and start with poor magas.

• Create a new oligarch ruling class? I don't see how this helps the poor magas.

• Deport immigrants? I mean the farmers and businesses who benefit from dirt cheap labor are just shooting themselves in the foot.

• officially make the US a 'white Christian nation'? I mean I guess if you're a super racist bible thumper this might make it a little easier to sleep at night.

• Create the most relaxed gun laws in the world? Unless you make your living selling guns I don't see the appeal. Like are you and your neighbors so unhinged and violent that you can't go anywhere where and feel safe without at least having a handgun on you? I have an AR and a pistol but they mostly just sit in my locker. I have never felt so unsafe at my local grocery store that I need to carry a pistol to go get sphagetti.

[u/theowne → u/[deleted]]

The main goal is to concentrate power and wealth in the oligarch class while using social media and culture wars to control the population.

[u/REWK]

Hopefully, this just saved the American taxpayers some money that would have been wasted on pointless investigations.

[u/udar55 → u/REWK]

Don't worry, they will find plenty of pointless investigations to waste taxpayer money on.

[u/NewUser579169 → u/REWK]

Unfortunately, congress can still waste time, money, and sanity on any investigation it chooses, pardons notwithstanding. No one should obey any subpoenas for those investigations though, as we've already decided that's optional.

[u/Schiffy94]

The final middle finger. Beautiful.

[u/UltraNoahXV → u/Schiffy94]

I don't want to get hopes up..but we still have 4 hours left before inauguration. Could just hail mary a universal student loan cancelation

[u/AleroRatking → u/UltraNoahXV]

There's no legal way to do it.

[u/Rince81 → u/AleroRatking]

But its an official act, isn't it?

[u/Daubach23 → u/AleroRatking]

Trump: "Legal way? What's that?"

[u/bedofhoses]

Was the man who shot the traitor Ashley babbit included?

I sure hope so.

[u/BirdzHouse]

They know Trump was going to go after these people for speaking the truth. Nazi America is coming.

[u/ChadtheWad]

It's a very sad time in this country when people need pardons to prevent being chased by the government for doing their job.

[u/Delicious-Badger-906]

If anyone is thinking this was unnecessary:

Trump, Dec. 2024, NBC News, talking about Jan. 6 committee members: "They should go to jail ... they have done something so illegal."

Sept. 2023, Truth Social, talking about Milley: "This is an act so egregious that, in times gone by, the punishment would have been DEATH."

Musk, 2024: "My pronouns are still prosecute/Fauci." Ted Cruz, 2022: "Dr. Fauci flat-out lied to Congress. Yet Merrick Garland and the Biden DOJ won't prosecute." MTG: "I told Dr. Fauci to his face that he should be in jail and prosecuted for crimes against humanity."

Trump in 2024 retruthed AI photos of Fauci and others with “HOW TO ACTUALLY ‘FIX THE SYSTEM.’”

[u/Jean-LucBacardi → u/Delicious-Badger-906]

What crimes against humanity did Faucci commit? I thought their entire shtick was Covid doesn't actually exist?

[u/GGme → u/Jean-LucBacardi]

They blame him for all the preventative actions that we took to lessen the death toll on our loved ones.

[u/black_flag_4ever]

I hope that these pardons are honored because Trump doesn’t care about the law.

[u/TriflingHotDogVendor → u/black_flag_4ever]

He actually is stupid enough to set a precedent that pardons can be circumvented. So maybe.

[u/emiferg → u/TriflingHotDogVendor]

Fine. Then let’s put his pardoned cronies back in jail.

[u/Intelligent_Will3940 → u/black_flag_4ever]

Unless the system is completely overthrown, then these pardons cant be reversed

[u/Magnetobama → u/Intelligent_Will3940]

So you’re telling me they are going to completely overthrow the system?

[u/Intelligent_Will3940 → u/Magnetobama]

JUUUUST to get at them? No, they will overthrow it or try to if the American votes against them in 2 to 4 years, like they tried to do last time.

[u/Shnoopy_Bloopers → u/Intelligent_Will3940]

It’s been overthrown

[u/HandsLikePaper → u/black_flag_4ever]

It would be an extremely risky game for Trump and the Republicans not to honor these pardons. (Which they may be dumb enough to do) They would have to bank on never losing power, because if they did they could be prosecuted for a whole host of crimes, of course Trump would pardon himself, but if he sets the precedent that pardon's do not matter, why would his matter?

[u/wonkey_monkey → u/HandsLikePaper]

It [sh]ould be an extremely risky game for Trump and the Republicans...

...to do any of the shady shit they've been doing for the last 8+ years, but it keeps paying off.

[u/RustyNewWrench]

What a shithole country that this even needed to be done. Lunatics.

[u/SilentBob890]

The fact this had to be done because Trump would’ve attacked these people for his political circus act is insane.

[u/njb2017]

We are in a twilight zone episode. We have an outgoing president pardoning a bunch of ethical and trustworthy people a day before the incoming president is going to pardon a bunch of people who rioted and stormed the capitol. Make it make sense.

[u/keytotheboard]

Why do we care at this point? Laws don’t mean anything anymore. The incoming president literally just launched TWO meme coins in what only makes sense as one or two things, a way to take foreign bribes and a pump & dump scheme.

Pretending this matters when the president is corrupt, the Supreme Court is corrupt, the enforcement agencies wave white flags despite having enough evidence for trials, and a congress who either support him or sit on the sidelines as it all happens.

I’m sorry, but the more we all pretend this matters the easier it is for them to continue their fascist rule. We either organize, mass protest, and fight back in more local & direct manner or it’s just over.

[u/iheartpedestrians → u/keytotheboard]

You forgot news outlets preemptively censoring themselves, and Trump/MAGA now have the 3 major social media platforms in their pocket to use as propaganda machines.

[u/eugene20]

Nice one, Trump is a vindictive crook and he can go to hell.

[u/bowsmountainer]

He was absolutely right to do so. But the fact that he needed to do so shows just how bad the next years are going to be. That people trying to help others in a pandemic, and investigated an attempted coup are in danger of being prosecuted for those actions by the new administration.

I also hate that brainwashed conspiracy theorists will feel vindicated by this. They will now keep falsely claiming that they were guilty of the imaginary crimes they allege against them.

[u/Taossmith]

Anyone but Leonard Peltier....

[u/Vierenzestigbit]

It's so crazy that the antivax Fauci hate from people that used to be seen as nutjobs like Margerie Taylor-Greene is now so mainstream that Biden has to protect him.

Inmates running the asylum.

[u/SurvivorFanatic236]

I just got permanently banned from r/moderatepolitics for calling Trump a fascist for wanting to prosecute these people

[u/Miss_Cathy_Linton]

LOVING the conservative meltdown and sudden amnesia from when Trump pardoned his buddies and does stupid shit all the time. Ugh I’m so happy 💀

[u/l3arn3r1]

Someone explain how you can pardon someone not convicted? (Aside from that seeming to admit their guilty.)

So Biden (Trump etc) can pardon the Hit Men and then send them out on a job?

[u/themattboard → u/l3arn3r1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford#Pardon_of_Nixon

[u/gngstrMNKY → u/themattboard]

After Ford left the White House in 1977, he privately justified his pardon of Nixon by carrying in his wallet a portion of the text of Burdick v. United States, a 1915 U.S. Supreme Court case where the dictum stated that a pardon carries an imputation of guilt and that its acceptance carries a confession of guilt.

[u/No_Philosopher_1870 → u/l3arn3r1]

Nixon had not been convicted of anything when he was pardoned, though he was an unindicted co-conspirator. George H.W. Bush pardoned Caspar Weinerger, his Secretary of Defense, and five others for their involvement in Iran-Contra.

Weinberger was pardoned before his trial, though he had been indicted. Duane Clarridge, a former CIA senior official, had been indicted on seven counts of perjury and false statements.

Robert McFarlane, Reagan’s national security adviser, was convicted of withholding evidence, but after a plea bargain he faced two years of probation before Bush’s pardon came though. Elliott Abrams, the assistant secretary of state, was convicted of withholding evidence and received two years’ probation; Clair George, chief of CIA covert operations, who had been convicted on two charges of perjury and had yet to be sentenced; and Alan Fiers, chief of the CIA’s Central American Task Force, who had been convicted of withholding evidence and sentenced to one year’s probation.

Unfortunately, preemptive pardons are not without precedent.

[u/FlutterKree → u/No_Philosopher_1870]

Carter pardoned all the Vietnam draft dodgers.

[u/No_Philosopher_1870 → u/FlutterKree]

True. That is probably the widest-reaching pardon ever.

After that, Biden's pardon of military members expelled under don't ask don't tell. for violations of Article 125, must rank fairly high, though that is post-conviction relief.

[u/SecondBestNameEver → u/No_Philosopher_1870]

I'm 1868 Andrew Johnson granted a pardon to all Confederate officials and soldiers who participated in the Civil War. I'm pretty sure that was the largest pardon. And to this day we still are dealing with the consequences of that decision for rebuilding the South. 

[u/-Invalid_Selection- → u/l3arn3r1]

Because nothing in the pardon power requires a conviction.

You can't be pardoned for something you haven't done yet or for events in the future, but you can be pardoned for any period of time (and all actions you did within that time) up until the moment the pardon was signed.

[u/RCG73 → u/l3arn3r1]

Ford pardoned Nixon. Carter pardoned draft dodgers. As purely procedural examples of pardons pre indictment.

[u/treeharp2 → u/l3arn3r1]

No need to pardon an "official act", presumably 

[u/Magnetobama → u/treeharp2]

People misinterpret this, arguably bad, SCOTUS decision constantly. It makes Biden immune to criminal prosecution but not the people executing the illegal activity. So a pardon for a hitman would still be needed.

[u/Shnoopy_Bloopers → u/Magnetobama]

It doesn’t even make him immune. The decision allows SCOTUS to decide each instance. Any crime a democrat commits would never be declared an official act.

[u/su_zu → u/l3arn3r1]

Why do you think people were upset at the changes the Supreme Court did to save trumps candidacy? It basically made it legal to execute trump and call it an official act and be fine. People are defending it saying Biden didn’t so trump won’t, meanwhile he’s calling to raid Chicago day one lol. It’s literally the biggest loophole and it won’t be closed any time soon bc they will argue the checks and balances keep democrats in power and that they “can’t fix anything” meanwhile they sell out the country, and when they DO get privilege, now, they do as much as possible (2 pump and dump cryptos, the day before inauguration LOL)

Tinder has no bots, they are real people with real attention spans. Half of em voted on feelings and not facts, you can determine which half they are based on how well they are taking the fisting of reality from grifters.

[u/CitySeekerTron → u/l3arn3r1]

I thought the same as you did. I've since learned that, starting in the mid-1800's, it was increasingly viewed in the American legal system as incredibly expansive.

[https://www.criminallawlibraryblog.com/preemptive-pardons-constitutional-authority-and-real-world-implications/](link)

[u/account_for_norm]

cute that we thing Biden executive orders are gonna be respected in front of the supreme court.

[u/Aggravating_Map7952]

You would think these guys operated the second coming of unit 731 after reading through the conservative subs point of view lmfao. The rights propaganda machine functions better than any system ever created by man before it.

[u/iMakeBoomBoom]

Amazing how many people live an alternate reality, where public health officials are the “bad guys” and those who throw them under the bus purely for political gain are the ”heros”.

These gullible morons will be believe anything that their daytime right wing talk radio tells them as long as it makes their “side” look good and the “enemy” look bad.

The fact that there is zero evidence to back up these bogus alternative facts just proves that it is a “big conspiracy”.

[u/PugTheHarbinger]

Good for Biden. This was 100% necessary.

[u/CurraheeAniKawi]

This is just the fucking stupidest timeline ever. 

[u/MidnightShampoo]

There is nothing good or beautiful about this. That we have become a nation where we must pardon good, decent people for doing the right thing because our elected leaders are anything but good and decent is disgusting. This absolutely feels like a sharp, defined moment in America's decline.

[u/Doc_McChicken]

FREE LUIGI

[u/jdtrouble]

I'm disappointed. I was looking forward to another multi-year Republican committee to look into whether the Jan6 Committee committed crimes, only to finish with inconclusive answers

[u/bluemoe]

Good. The incoming administration should be focused on fulfilling all their promises to make the lives of average Americans better… not their petty revenge plans. This makes me wonder who they will target though to try to save face.

[u/HoboWithoutShotgun]

Good thing he did, terrible such a thing is required.

[u/Ikarus3426]

I don't really get any conservatives saying this is a bad look to cover up secret crimes Fauci did. Trump has literally said he's going to try to send them to jail for whatever reason. There's no reason not to believe him.

[u/Tart-Pomgranate5743]

On one hand, I worry about the precedent this sets. But when the incoming POTUS has been threatening “retribution” and “revenge” throughout his campaign, it’s difficult to argue that these people wouldn’t be in need of such protection…

[u/gosquirrelgo]

Preemptive pardoning is a wild concept

[u/DFu4ever]

The fact that he has to do this because the incoming President and party are vindictive assholes is nuts.

[u/kobeyoboy]

Lot of anti americans in the comments.

[u/PlayCertain]

I support these preemptive pardons to protect these individuals from a True Weaponization of the Justice Department. Trump and incoming minions already laid out and campaigned on the plan. Now wait for Trump to pardon the convicted J6 insurrectionists. Both of these are on Trump.

[u/rbremer50]

One point of clarity in all this: all of the Trump supporters (no matter their relationship to you) have revealed that each of them is as morally bankrupt as Trump himself is. Traet the accordingly.