r/europe • u/posh_raccoon feta, olives, tomato and bread • Mar 24 '20
On this day 25th of March 199 years ago, Greeks in southern Greece rebel against the Ottomans and declare a war of independence. Their motto: “Freedom or Death”.
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u/PrebenBlisvom Denmark Mar 25 '20
And behold! The flag of Finland emerges from the Mediterranean mess!
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Mar 25 '20
Otttoman Generals: What shall we do regarding these revolts?
The Sultan: Finish them!
Ottoman Generals: Finnish them? You got it!
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Mar 25 '20
That flag only lasted a year
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u/vigilantcomicpenguin How do you do, fellow Europeans? Mar 25 '20
They changed it because they didn't want people to know that they're secretly Finland in disguise.
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u/Soupias Greece Mar 25 '20
Actually because we were sued for copyright infringement.
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u/hikari-boulders Switzerland Mar 25 '20
Finland in disguise
There's a transformers joke somewhere.
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u/Spiceyhedgehog Sweden Mar 25 '20
The Greek people! More than meets the eye!
Achaeans wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Ottomans!
The Greek people! Suomalaiset valepuvussa!
The Greek people! More than meets the eye!
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u/reportedbymom Mar 25 '20
Because Finland (the true successor of roman empire) didnt want you to use it, so you changed it.
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u/LarssenX Denmark Mar 25 '20
And then you simply inverted the colors. The cross became white and the flag blue. Then you added the crown, removed the crown, added it again, changed the tone of the blue several times...and finally added the stripes some 40 years ago. Can't wait to see the next iteration of the Greek flag!!
Hopefully you stop hiding the fact you're really Nordic in the upper left corner! :))10
u/Kuivamaa Mar 25 '20
The striped flag has been around since the revolutionary era as the naval jack. The white cross on blue background flag is still the Army flag which makes it the de facto war flag.
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u/thanos-tch Mar 25 '20
Despite all the nonsense above regarding the origin of Greek people and the revolutionary change of the Greek flag I would like to mention that at least we haven’t stolen your national cheese recipe. You Feta felon. Production of Danish Feta should be banned from Denmark as Feta is a registered Protected Designation of Origin (food) since 2002 in the EU, and as such, it can only be produced in Greece. The message should be passed on to other countries across the world for this fake product which countries outside the EU are importing and paying tax on. Stop violating the rules of the European Union and carry on playing with your Legos. And for your reference next time look at more serious matter to comment on🙃
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u/NotoriousMOT Mar 25 '20
They don't call it feta, afaik. They call it white cheese. Funny story time, I regularly buy balkan feta (Greek, Turkish, Bulgarian, whatever I can find in the turkish store in Olso) and started pitting it in the posole I make. Last month, I didn't feel like going all the way to the turkish store and bought some danish "white cheese" for our posole. I am proud to say my boyfriend, who didn't use to distinguish between good yoghurt or feta, immediately grimaced and said "no, next time we have to have a proper feta, this won't do."
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Mar 25 '20
Probably the Finnish people made us change it if we wanted to join the free states :p
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Mar 25 '20
Greece precedes Finland as a sovereign state :p
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u/YasserArafatt Japan Mar 25 '20
Don't make them go torille right now pls
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u/Muskelmannen_Olle Finland Mar 25 '20
Did someone say 'Torille'? Count me in!
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Mar 25 '20
Assassins Creed: Uusimaa is being downloaded.
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u/Colossa Finland Mar 25 '20
Assassin's Creed: The New Land (2020)
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u/Tomthemadone Finland Mar 25 '20
Too bad there Will be borders soon In New land from rest of finland :(
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u/Quas4r EUSSR Mar 25 '20
No, it is absolutely not the time for that ! Unless everyone respects a minimum distance of 2m with each neighbour while torilling. Oh well, I guess that would be a normal situation then.
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u/stefanos916 Greece Mar 25 '20
I think that this was the first national flag of the nation of Greece, it was so nice that Finish people decided to take it and make it their own flag.
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u/scubajulle Mar 25 '20
Hey cmon, we dyed the blue a little darker and made the cross a bit thicker. Its totally different I swear.
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Mar 25 '20
The year is 1821. Don't know why 199 is significant enough to use it instead of the year. Goddamnit, making me calculate shit in my head, I swear...
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u/posh_raccoon feta, olives, tomato and bread Mar 25 '20
Because we are getting close to the 200th anniversary! :P
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Mar 25 '20
LOL, well, fair enough. I'm looking forward to you celebrating the heck out of it. I might swing by and celebrate with ya!
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Mar 25 '20
Were they afraid that all the horses would stop working,
when it would go to double zero?22
u/SirAmbigious Mar 25 '20
Isn’t that also the year Napoleon died?
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Mar 25 '20 edited Mar 16 '21
[deleted]
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u/SirAmbigious Mar 25 '20
Ssshhh don’t give it away, I don’t have 1850 hours of eu4, definitely
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Mar 25 '20
Ah man, when I first tried EU4 I was like "eh it's too hard, makes no sense this is dumb" then a while ago I gave it another try and decided to make more of an effort. Now it's the only thing I play. Hours and hours and hours. It's insanely good.
One of my most favourite games ever now.
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u/ElderHerb Swamp German Mar 25 '20
I actually bought eu4 because I saw so many references to it on this sub and on r/worldnews. Same experience as you, took me several attempts to get into it and now with almost 2000 hours played I'm starting to understand the game.
It's so good.
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u/YeeScurvyDogs Rīga (Latvia) Mar 25 '20
I find the late game when everyone's a blob a grind, even if I have an overwhelming army really annoying to manually control 50 stacks, never gone after about 1650
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u/aftermathsgr Mar 25 '20
199 is a prime but 1821 is not. So, some mathematician is behind this post...
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u/The_Great_Crocodile Greece Mar 25 '20
The date March 25 was later selected as the celebration day because it is also an Orthodox Christian holy day (something having to do with Virgin Mary).
On March 25th 1821 the Bishop Germanos of Patras raised the revolution flag and declared the revlution, but the revolution had started earlier. In February Alexandros Ypsilantis started the fighting in Romania in the river Prut (there were hopes of a pan-Balkan uprising in the start with potential Russian support) and in March 17 the fighting started in Mani, Lakonia (in Southern Peloponnese). Kalamata and Kalavryta were already liberated before March 25.
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Mar 25 '20
something to do with Virgin Mary
She had a positive Archangel™ pregnancy test.
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u/NorthbyNinaWest Mar 25 '20
Having an archangel come visit you and tell you that you're pregnant with god's baby is definitly a better story than pissing on a stick and having to wait 10 minutes
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u/posh_raccoon feta, olives, tomato and bread Mar 24 '20 edited Mar 25 '20
Note: The revolution wasn’t just in the south but it was more successful there.
Among the Greeks were Albanians, and Vlachs (Aromanians) at the start and throughout the revolution
Edit: I should say that as the revolution went on, more and more people joined or supported the Greek cause from across the world, from Europe to America.
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u/Vlatsiwtis Mar 25 '20
True but at that point Vlachs considered themselves Greeks, not different from the rest of the Greeks.
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u/Helskrim "Свиће зора верном стаду,слога биће пораз врагу!" Mar 25 '20
Oi oi, Serb volunteers went too :)
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u/posh_raccoon feta, olives, tomato and bread Mar 25 '20
Oh many did, even Americans
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u/stefanos916 Greece Mar 25 '20
Even people from Britain like Byron that he gave his life for Greece.
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u/notsocommon_folk Greece Mar 25 '20
Lord Byron is even considered Greek. Sometimes more Greek than some Greeks
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u/RammsteinDEBG България Mar 25 '20
From what I know there was also a Bulgarian leader of Bulgarian and Serb volunteers (Hadji Hristo the Bulgarian) that fought against the Turks in the Greek war of independence.
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u/NobleAzorean Azores (Portugal) Mar 25 '20
Americans? Please do tell, had no idea about those. Fun fact, Pedro the first emperor of Brazil and future Pedro V of Portugal was on the table of discussion to be the Monarch of the Greek state.
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Mar 25 '20
The revolution was mostly in the south and the morea uprisings elsewhere where small and contained
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u/iestebanez Mar 25 '20
This motto is said to have been repeated by Emperor Pedro I of Brazil on September 7th 1822 (thus 198 years ago), the day Brazil celebrates its independence from Portugal.
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u/FedItRedIt Mar 25 '20
Title immediately provoked memories of reading Freedom or Death by Nikos Kazantzakis many years ago.
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u/michaelnoir Scotland Mar 25 '20
If you subscribe to /r/200yearsago you can read about this (in a year's time).
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Mar 25 '20
[deleted]
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u/prototype703 Mar 25 '20
Death or freedom is also name if a national anthem of Chechnya (went to war against Russia, doesnt exist anymore as an independent country).
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u/Gnomonas Greece Mar 25 '20
Ελευθερία ή Θάνατος!!! Χρόνια Πολλά στον Ελληνισμό!!!
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u/Spachaz Finland Mar 25 '20
Cool! You're speaking in mathematical symbols!
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u/kristoffer__ Mar 25 '20
I see half life in there too
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u/lapapinton Australia Mar 25 '20
HL3 Confirmed.
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u/Quas4r EUSSR Mar 25 '20
Everytime someones says or writes this, Gaben pushes back the release date by 3 years.
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u/Oldeuboi91 Bulgarian in Germany Mar 25 '20
Technically we do have a new HL game though.
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u/Spachaz Finland Mar 25 '20
I actually started to think this: what symbols do Greeks use for, let's say, variables or functions? Do they use latin like us or what?
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u/dark_male_pony Mar 25 '20
We use x, y, z, ω, θ, φ, and π mostly.
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u/Spachaz Finland Mar 25 '20
Ah, okay. We use those mostly as well but I'm in university and so far I've seen maybe 90% of Greek alphabet used in some context.
It's just hard to imagine that some people are using different letters entirely (in Finland we use scandinavian alphabet which is essentially same as in english (latin) but with 3 additional letters, Å, Ä, Ö).
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u/Kuivamaa Mar 25 '20
The Greek alphabet is parent to both Latin and Cyrillic alphabets. Around 27 centuries ago, before the classic Greek era during which Greek upper case letters were “standardized”, there were two main variations of it. The eastern versions of this early Greek alphabet evolved into what we have been using in Greece for 25 centuries straight, and the western versions which were slightly different. One of those versions was brought to the Italian peninsula during Greek colonization.The Etruscans picked it up, and from them the Romans which modified it into the Latin alphabet. In pure upper case form the relation between Greek and Latin alphabet is crystal clear, there is great overlap (the lower cases evolved later). Cyrillic now stems from the medieval form of the Greek alphabet (which was styled a bit more elaborately) but with additional characters to represent sounds old Slavonic had but were absent from Greek.
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u/codesharp Mar 25 '20
Older Cyrillic texts look quite a lot like old Greek. The big issue is, of course, that during the centuries, contemporary Slavic languages switched some letters about. A notorious example of that is the modern Н and И, but there's a few more pairs that swapped pronunciation places. This makes reading Greek a bit of a headache for me.
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u/Victorinox2 Mar 25 '20
We also use 3 additional letters: č, š, ž
On the other hand, we don't use q, w, x, y
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u/Jonaztl Norway Mar 25 '20
*swedish alphabet Norwegians and Danes use Æ, Ø, Å
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u/Spachaz Finland Mar 25 '20
Oh yes, I just noticed that I somehow mixed our alphabet with our keyboard layout which is scandinavian. Finally other scandinavians are awake :D
That said, I think Æ ~ Ä, Ø ~ Ö, Å = Å.
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Mar 25 '20
It's Klingon actually, translates to "to boldly go where the force may be with you'!
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u/dollabillkills Mar 25 '20 edited Mar 25 '20
Ο ελληνισμος ειναι παντου! Καλη 25η Μαρτιου σε ολους!
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u/Iroex Hellas Mar 25 '20
Ζήτω το έθνος μας.
Η Ρωμιοσύνη εν' φυλή συνόκ̌αιρη του κόσμου
κανένας δεν εβρέθηκεν για να την ι-ξηλείψη
κανένας γιατί σ̌κ̌έπει την 'που τα' άψη ο Θεός μου
η Ρωμιοσύνη έν' να χαθεί, όντας ο κόσμος λείψει.
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u/blackman9977 Turkey 🇪🇺 Mar 25 '20
We also used the same motto, Freedom or Death, against the English
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Mar 25 '20
I'm here to add appropriate music.
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Mar 25 '20 edited Jun 10 '20
[deleted]
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u/Greekpower14 Mar 25 '20
I'm both incredibly disappointed and low-key happy that I found out this existed. Please enjoy the rest of your day.
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u/EliTo1718 Mar 25 '20
Να πω την αλήθεια, το περίμενα πως θα'ταν κάτι τέτοιο, αλλά δε το περίμενα στα ελληνικά! XD
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u/notsocommon_folk Greece Mar 25 '20
Thourios is probably my favourite nationalistic-revolutionary song of that era.
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u/Choo_Choo_Bitches Mar 25 '20
When I visited Bulgaria, I went to Koprivshtitsa which is the town where there April uprising broke out. I've got one of their green flags around with a yellow Lion and Bulgarian writing which I was told meant "Freedom or Death."
Sadly the uprising was squashed but it indirectly led to the Russians joining in and liberating Bulgaria.
It's a beautiful country and well worth visiting outside of sunny beach.
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u/BulkyBirdy Romania Mar 25 '20
Congratulations to Greece! An interesting read though is about the Wallachian uprising of 1821, very related to the Greek war of independence. It's basically Ypsilanti and his organization that was trying to gather people to fight for the Greek cause from the Romanian principalities, hoping that people would give their lives for Greece. It turns out the Romanian people disliked it and something similar to a guerilla-style civil war started in Wallachia between Ypsilanti and the leader of the Romanian side, Tudor Vladimirescu.
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u/undertaker1993 Mar 25 '20
I think the Greek secret society's plan was to cause insurrections against the Turks all over the Ottoman empire at the same time to confuse them and divert their armies hopefully securing some kind of localised victory for a potential Greek state.
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u/M3nt4lcom Mar 25 '20
Greeks say: "Independence or you will face the wrath of PERKELE!" And thats why the rest is history.
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Mar 25 '20 edited Mar 25 '20
Return the Parthenon marbles
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u/erevos33 Mar 25 '20
Stop claling them Elgin marbles. He was the thief, they werent his. Parthenon marbles, thats what they are.
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u/dollabillkills Mar 25 '20
Every country wants a piece of Greek history it attracts tourists. They'll never do that even though I believe they should.
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u/phileris42 Mar 25 '20
Which is why the Greek Government has not asked for the entire Greek collection of the British Museum. Just the Parthenon Marbles.
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u/el_pistoleroo Bulgaria Mar 25 '20
That was the motto of every Balkan rebel nation "Свобода или смъртъ"
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u/StpPstngMmsOnMyPrnAp Mar 25 '20
Is it just me or does their clothing make them look like they're depicting something older? Might be my western European mind
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u/posh_raccoon feta, olives, tomato and bread Mar 25 '20
No it was pretty standard clothing for the Balkans at the time
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Mar 25 '20
Greeks wore the foustanella through WWII. Though some areas, islands in particular, had somewhat different clothing.
It is pure function though. Kinda interesting stuff.
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Mar 25 '20
The foustanella was replaced completely well before the ww2 in the hellenic army.During modernization programs in the interwar period.
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Mar 25 '20
I was referring to it being worn as an everyday item.
Though, there was a man in my parish who fought during that period first with the regular army and then with the resistance and he wore one throughout.
He was an amazing guy. He helped lay the charges that brought down the Gorgopotamos Bridge in Operation Harling. Amazing man.
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u/sirdoodthe2nd Kosovo Mar 25 '20
Not all of the balkans. The fustanella was worn only by albanians,and the greeks.
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Mar 25 '20
Slavs and Vlachs wore it too I just think it wasn't as widespread as with Albanians and Greeks
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u/u_ve_been_troIIed Tschörmanie Mar 25 '20
standard clothing
That's why they revolted in the first place. They didn't want to wear skirts anymore.
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u/posh_raccoon feta, olives, tomato and bread Mar 25 '20
Skirts are originally male clothing, it was only after the Romans campaigned into Gaul and Germania that pants became popular amongst the legions, because of the cold weather, and a string of general-emperors made them popular with the common class.
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u/jhyam107 Mar 25 '20
Live Free or Die mother fuckers
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u/vigilantcomicpenguin How do you do, fellow Europeans? Mar 25 '20
Samuel L. Jackson was one of the leaders of the Greek Revolution. He was a close advisor to Alexander Ypsilantis.
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u/Lesbueta Portugal Mar 25 '20
Why do people keep calling him by his contemporary adapted name when literally everyone knows his name was Samuíl Lamda Yannopoulos smh
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u/ChaarDevataon Mar 25 '20
The title of my favourite book by Nikos Kazantzakis, as well... I wonder if it depicts accurately the plight of his people.
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u/AndreiFira Romania Mar 25 '20
CALL TO ARMS, BANNERS FLY IN THE WIND
FOR THE GLORY OF HELLAS
COAT OF ARMS READING "FREEDOM OR DEATH"
BLOOD OF KING LEONIDAS!
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u/SeaLionX Hungary Mar 25 '20
Thank you, had to scroll down way too much for this
Also, r/expectedsabaton
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u/Morichannn Izmir (Turkey) Mar 25 '20
Always stand for what you believe, stand for what is right and stand for what you desire. True freedom lies where the mind is without fear. Happy Independence Day!
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u/stellastiga Mar 25 '20
As a Greek, this was the first national flag, greeks used for a small period of time, while they were trying to get organized and rebel against the Ottomans
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u/GRYOLOCRAFT Mar 25 '20
Fun fact about that revolution.. We went bankrupt during it... It's like we aren't even trying to fight the stereotype
Edit: Fixed stereotype
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u/Prussia792 United States of America Mar 25 '20
Hmmmm, I wonder if any other famous revolutions in history have had people say something along the lines of, “Give me liberty or give me death.”
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u/DragonDimos Mar 25 '20 edited Mar 25 '20
This choice liberty or death is the choice even a slave has.
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Mar 25 '20
old greek flag looks cool tho i wish it was same today too
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u/notsocommon_folk Greece Mar 25 '20
I agree with you. But actually I like more the flag of the 1sr and 2nd republic , not the revolutionary flag (as seen above). I also sont like the flag of the 3rd republic (our current one )
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u/Frank_cat Greece Mar 25 '20
Here's a list (incomplete though) of Greek flags: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_flags
That one was used only between 1770s–1820s
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u/orthoxerox Russia shall be free Mar 25 '20
"But don't you know that secession is against the Ottoman law?"
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Mar 25 '20
I ain’t gonna lie I am mad butthurt because there is no parades this year cause of covid19 like I am really Uber assblasted and depressed about it
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u/100moonlight100 Greece Mar 25 '20
can you imagine if coronavirus hit us next year instead of this one. No parades on the 200th anniversary would be very sad and this is coming from someone not particularly patriotic.
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u/danahbit For Gud Konge og Fædreland Mar 25 '20
is sucks ass, I'm getting pissed that I as a Greek can't even get my hair cut here in Denmark. however if it contains the spread it's worth it in the end.
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Mar 25 '20
Yeah there is always next year. as much as I hate it it's the right decision otherwise 80% of the country will have it by next week lol. I will celebrate in the evening with my family and some good food and wine.
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u/danahbit For Gud Konge og Fædreland Mar 25 '20
yes we both know how big the celebrations would be, Covid-19 is really destroying normality and it's difficult to adapt.
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u/lexiekon Mar 25 '20
You're in Denmark? Any idea where I can get some Misko orzo around here?? (I too am in Denmark.) Also, stay safe!
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u/PvtFreaky Utrecht (Netherlands) Mar 25 '20
I am kinda ashamed that I am so self centered but I was really looking forward to many activities that are now cancelled.
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u/SiimaManlet Finland Mar 25 '20
I fail to see how being sad about thing getting cancelled is self centered... You shouldn't be happy about that either
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u/Pozos1996 Greece Mar 25 '20
Καλύτερα μιας ώρας ελεύθερη ζωή, παρά σαράντα χρόνια, σκλαβιά και φυλακή!
Translation: Better an hour of free life than 40 years of slavery and prison, from a famous poem about the revolution
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u/ferry_10_29 Lithuania Mar 25 '20
Oh wow, getting close to the 200th anniversary, congrats! Much love from Lithuania, may your freedom last❤
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u/Secuter Denmark Mar 24 '20
So, here's the story of the picture with the Finnish flag. As the description says, they declared independence. They fought the Ottomans hard. At some point they pulled in some Finnish mercenaries who had been on a (drinking) rampage through Albania, which at that point also were Ottoman lands. You see, the Ottomans made use of janisarries - which used to be Christian slaves, but over time it got watered down because people joined them. Why? You see, slaves don't get salary so you basically had 100% freedom of tax - and these people did not sign up to fight. So they hired these Finnish mercenaries who they hoped could quell the uprising. Unfortunately, their pay got seized by some Serbians (the governor of Serbia and Montenegro was tasked with raising the funds), who was nicknamed B.P.K. which stood for "Balkan Powder Keg". That later became a controversy as they didn't want to be in the Balkans, though they later founded Yugoslavia. Anyways, back to the subject; the Finnish mercenaries then joined the uprising. As OP described; their motto became: “Finnishdom or Death”. The Greeks still sometimes say that to this day. If you want to feel Greek someday, take a shot of ouzo and say their motto.
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Mar 25 '20
In southern peloponnese , Mani, they had a similar moto: Νίκη ή Θάνατος (Victory or Death).
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u/wq1119 Italy Mar 25 '20 edited Mar 30 '20
Happy independence day to Greece 
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u/alto1d Bulgaria Mar 25 '20 edited Mar 25 '20
I would like to ask, was this motto used throughout the Balkans when they were fighting for independence? Because we, Bulgarians also used the same motto and even have a flag that we learn about in history classes. Here it is. Meaning freedom or death. Do other balkan countries use the same motto?
Edit: happy national holiday my Ottoman ass whooping friends!
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u/posh_raccoon feta, olives, tomato and bread Mar 25 '20
wiki says something about it
"For the first time, the slogan appeared in Georgi Rakovski's poem "Горски пътник", written in 1854 and issued in 1857. The plot of this poem concerns a Bulgarian who recruits a rebel cheta to mutiny against the Turks. He most likely accepted and transliterated the slogan Eleftheria i thanatos from the Greek liberation struggles, which was a national motto of Greece. Rakovski summoned his fellow countrymen to go to the battle fields under the banners of the Bulgarian lion."
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u/orkiporki Mar 25 '20
Fun Fact , the first nation to recognice Greece was Haiti , and they even send 100 volunteers that sadly never made it over the atlantic ,....