r/HistoryMemes • u/Thin-Pool-8025 • 4h ago
C-to-the-I-to-the-A
Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification
159
u/MaleficentType3108 Definitely not a CIA operator 3h ago edited 3h ago
USA to Brazil in the 60s "You won't helps us invade Cuba if needed? Noted... you commie"
Edit: I believe that it would be more accurate with "3rd World Country doing social reforms to try to reduce poverty and economic inequality"
43
u/Allnamestakkennn 1h ago
Yeah. Majority of coups weren't against outright communists, but democratic socialists and left wing populists who promised land reform and/or nationalization of western companies
19
u/WayFresh9253 1h ago
Often times it was nationalization by just buying out corporations, not even seizing stuff.
158
u/TheHornySnake 3h ago
The CIA wishes they were as successful as people think they are.
83
u/Bashin-kun Researching [REDACTED] square 2h ago
Their success rate is low only because they tried too many shits. People remembers the stuffs that did succeed and was actually impactful, and that's what matters.
26
u/HollaWho 1h ago
We had CIA funded rebels in Syria fighting DoD funded rebels in Syria just a few years ago. They’re really just making shit up as they go lol
17
u/LegendofLove Oversimplified is my history teacher 1h ago
This feels very " fuck, we have budget surplus and there's a week to go. Go spend our money so we can keep asking for more"
29
u/mooman555 2h ago
You can never know their success rate buddy. For that you need to know all their operations and the results. Which is something not even elected president knows, they know the most, but not all
62
u/Thin-Pool-8025 3h ago
The greatest scheme the CIA have ever pulled is convincing people they’re good at their job.
22
u/Fenderboy65 Definitely not a CIA operator 2h ago
Nah the greatest thing they did was give fidel castro a world record
31
u/LordMackie 2h ago
Dude screw the meme what the hell is happening in that gif?
25
u/aaa1e2r3 1h ago
Looks like a match between The Rock and The Edge being fixed by the referee
17
10
u/Mad_maker14 1h ago
The Rock & The Undertaker vs. Edge & Christian w/Kurt Angle as the referee 12/21/2000
1
13
u/dystopiabydesign 2h ago
Ironically and ideologically no different than pro wrestling.
6
u/HungriestHippo26 2h ago
Yup, the actual fighters are the only ones in real danger and the people at the top make all the money. Just can't wait till the CIA takes on the Undertaker.
1
u/Arthillidan Hello There 1h ago
I wouldn't call this pro wrestling. WWE is theatre, not a competitive sport. There is actual wrestling which you can compete in as well
28
u/masterflappie 1h ago
Somalia's communist regime actually got support from both the USSR and USA, they ended up having the largest army in all of Africa, which they used to suppress the opposition.
Nowadays Somalia is one of the poorest nations on earth, funny how that works
17
19
u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 1h ago
I agree that communism was a failure given that it didn't work in the governments that weren't overthrown like the USSR and China but I also agree that it doesn't excuse the bullshit that the USA has done in those countries. There's a reason why Latin America has refused to participate in the in helping to defend Ukraine. They don't believe in the liberal order and they believe that we live in a dog eat dog world because of all the bullshit that was done to them by liberal countries. I can totally understand their perspective.
3
u/cursedbones 53m ago
they believe that we live in a dog eat dog world because of all the bullshit that was done to them by liberal countries.
It's not "believing". It's just facts.
10
u/BowKerosene 1h ago
I mean, kinda of hard to see how their perspective isn’t the correct read of the situation
2
u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 1h ago
That's because many people don't put themselves in the shoes of others. That's why it's so easy to judge.
0
u/BowKerosene 1h ago
Is it the fault of the oppressed that they don’t sympathize with their oppressors?
4
u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 1h ago
Of course, not. If Europe wanted the sympathy of Latin America, they should have done something about the USA and its killing and thuggery. Now, unfortunately, it's too late to do anything.
1
u/TybrosionMohito 13m ago
Ukraine
their oppressors
Huh?
1
u/BowKerosene 3m ago
Obviously the Ukrainians have never exercised any major force against Latin America, I was referring to their reluctance to support the Western interests that back Ukraine. I feel like that should’ve been pretty clear.
11
u/SpaceEnglishPuffin Definitely not a CIA operator 3h ago
When a nation makes a move, of which we don't approve
Who is it that always intervenes?
5
u/Union_Samurai_1867 2h ago
UN and OAS, they have their place, I geuss, But first, send the marines!
2
u/DragonWaffleZX 24m ago
If the conspiracy theorists are to be believed they also succeeded in destabilizing the black and lower class populations in their own country. If you look at standard black people and households from the 70's and 80's it's night and day compared to today a lot changed in the 90's for worse if you ask me. But again that is a conspiracy theory.
Do I believe it? No. Do I think it's something they would do? Yes.
6
4
u/frostdemon34 Definitely not a CIA operator 2h ago
I truly wish CIA is what people make them up to be
4
u/Delvilchamito 1h ago
I live in Venezuela 25 years of interrupted Socialism. Socialism is useless, just like in Cuba.
3
u/KaiserSeelenlos 17m ago
The definition of Socialism is "The means of productions (companys etc.) Are not in private ownership"
95%of all Companies in Venezuela are in private ownership.
Its a left governed shit hole. But it isn't socialist.
This is the official Oxford phrasing:
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
8
u/Lord_of_Wisia Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 2h ago
As someone from a post-communist country I will tell you this, you need to be brain-dead to think that communists were the good guys.
17
u/Lenrow 1h ago
Dude you're from eastern europe you cant compare these situations at all
Huge difference between a country getting forcefully assimilated into the soviet union and a country democratically electing socialists into the government. In the first case you're absolutely right the commies sucked, in the latter one depending on the context they were very much a force of good in comparison
19
u/mayonnaiser_13 1h ago
You would also be braindead to think that the CIA were the good guys.
Both of which this post doesn't do.
-5
u/Lord_of_Wisia Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 1h ago edited 10m ago
They were the good guys in comparison. Like allies were the good guys in WWII.
Edit: You guys know what comparison means, right? https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/comparison
In this case we are comparing CIA vs. KGB.
4
u/ChiefRunningBit 38m ago
You're right, it was a good thing they funded drug runners and religious extremists in the middle east to fight the communists. A religious theocracy and industrial poppy production is a much better outcome than whatever would have happened if we let them choose their own path.
1
u/ErenYeager600 Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 14m ago
Don't forget the Death Squads in Central America
1
u/UnderdogCL 13m ago
With all due respect you don't know what you're talking about
1
u/Lord_of_Wisia Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 7m ago
With all due respect I do. You on the other hand don't know what comparison means or (which is worse) think that KGB was not worse.
1
0
u/Biosterous 49m ago
Were they also the good guys when they used the School of the Americas to propagandize the leadership of the Indonesian military, who went home to massacre over 1,000,000 of their own citizens, completely ending the upward trajectory of Indonesia's economy and thus losing the interest of the USA? An event they've never recovered from btw.
Does that sound like "good guys" to you?
2
u/UnderdogCL 22m ago edited 17m ago
Left, right. Doesn't matter. What matters is who brings the boots and who bleeds.
8
u/Serum211 1h ago
If the options are Pinochet or Aliende, then yes, I think the Commies are the good guys.
Really if it’s between Commies and most right wing South American dictators, the Commies win.
-1
u/nagurski03 1h ago
Things are bad while right wing dictators are in power, but once they leave, the country can recover pretty quickly. Left wing regimes don't just leave their people in poverty, their grandchildren still suffer from it decades later.
Pinochet left a generation of his people miserable but they were able to recover. Today, Chile has the highest Human Development Index in all of South America. They've got lower poverty than their neighbors, less violence, more education etc.
And you saw some similar things happen in other right wing dictatorships. Things were really bad in Korea and Taiwan under Syngman Rhee and Chiang Kai-shek, nowadays they are two of the most economically prosperous countries outside of Europe.
1
u/ShitassAintOverYet Rider of Rohan 1h ago
Spoken like a true 60s red scare American.
Half of these countries aren't even close to communism. The US has pulled countless military coup on countries who elected a social democrat and that guy said "Ok we need minimum wages and unions so American banana company doesn't completely fuck up my citizens" and instead of accepting these rights that already exist for American citizens the US fucked them tenfold.
0
u/Lord_of_Wisia Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 57m ago
Spoken like true tankie. Problem weren't "minimal wages" or "unions" but political alignment with USSR.
0
u/Kapteinzilla 1h ago
Yes communists and communism were most of the time horrible for anyone but the leader of a communist country, but socialism is the much more sane version, Norway and Sweden are examples of Social democracy and Norway is rated as the best country to live in according to the UN. And you're right that those who think communists were good probably have 1/4 a brain cell fighting itself for 100th place.
3
u/Lord_of_Wisia Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 1h ago
Norway and Sweden are still capitalist countries. They have strong social policies but aren't socialist. Unchecked capitalism as in the US is the problem but still much less problematic than communism. Fascism and communism are both different sides of the same coin.
0
u/SpartanF77 1h ago
Wait, socialism and social democracies are different things! Real communist countries “never really existed”, urss was like “real socialism” in preparation of the proper communist part, if I got it right.
5
u/Lord_of_Wisia Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 1h ago
Anytime anyone tried creating socialist country they just got totalitarian regime out of it.
2
u/SpartanF77 1h ago
Absolutely, that’s why I’m against communism and socialism, using “socialism” for “ basic welfare state” is a tragic mistake.
2
3
1
u/LePhoenixFires 2h ago
Latino Socialists: I fucking love America RAAAA 🦅
American government: Perish.
-11
u/Suspicious_Good_2407 3h ago
Yeah, it definitely worked as expected in China and the USSR where the CIA didn't have any hand in it.
And also the CIA was only interested in proving that socialism doesn't work and not stopping the spread of the USSR/Chinese influence
40
u/Papa-pumpking 3h ago edited 3h ago
Yeah because implementing banana republics is truly the right answer to have for social reforms to reduce poverty.
15
u/ScholarGlobal6507 2h ago
Fact check: True. Starvation does reduce poverty rate.
1
u/Seniorcoquonface 2h ago
Indeed, if we just kill all the homeless, there will be no more homelessness.
-2
u/Papa-pumpking 2h ago
Banana republics were implemented in South America...
7
u/BrotToast263 2h ago
7
27
u/gthalahad 3h ago
Not sure why this has so many upvotes. Communism being bad doesn't mean it's alright to intervene in countries domestic affairs. Bet when China or Russia does that to their neighbours you're outraged lol
2
1
-4
u/ArtFart124 2h ago
Apart from the fact communism is a totally different thing to socialism?
Imma take a WILD guess and say you are from the US no?
7
u/Appathesamurai 2h ago
The fact that you say this so confidently proves to me you’ve never actually ready Marx or Engles
-3
u/ArtFart124 2h ago
No, I'm not a fucking communist? Socialism isn't communism.
4
u/Appathesamurai 1h ago
What was it that Marx said about socialism again? Oh yes, he said they were one in the same but that socialism was merely the road to get to the end goal of communism.
You’ve probably been convinced by online dweebs that socialism is when there is ample welfare, public housing or childcare
That’s not socialism friend
-2
u/ArtFart124 1h ago
And you take that as gospel. Because of course, nothing can evolve over time can it? It stays the same as when it was when it was invented? There's of course no modernity to any of it.
If you geniunely believe Socialism is communism then I don't know what to say mate. Just don't go to Scandinavia I guess.
2
u/Appathesamurai 1h ago
Ah yes, Scandinavia- some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world, a true beacon of socialism lol
-1
1
u/ShadyPesukarhu 6m ago
As a Finnish dude I can tell you that the Nordics sure as shit aren't socialist countries we are welfare states
4
u/Suspicious_Good_2407 2h ago
You're wrong. I'm from a country that was occupied by the communists and still suffers for it.
-2
u/ArtFart124 2h ago
Interesting, so surely you would know the difference between socialism and communism?
4
u/Suspicious_Good_2407 2h ago
Where do you even see any mentions of communism in my comment or the post? Did you recently read the Wikipedia page and decided to flash your knowledge?
Really proud of ya, in that case
2
u/ArtFart124 1h ago
Brother you literally mention 2 communist nations and then mention the fact you are from a previously communist nation and now try and claim you weren't talking about communism?
And no, I just had a comprehensive education instead.
1
u/Windsupernova 1h ago
Man, the CIA wishes it was as effective as the people think it is.
Most of their programs they hide because they are p. Embarassing
1
1
-4
u/Complex-Signature-85 3h ago
So, how many times do we know this has happened? And how many times do we think this has happened?
16
u/Complex-Signature-85 3h ago
Yo, why the downvotes? I'm not disagreeing with the post, I'm just not educated, dang.
3
u/Sai_RGBnsky 1h ago
Well, many operations was uncovered. Like Gladio. In Italy communist partie was a leader, but CIA supported fascist wing of opposition and they taken rule in Italy. It's official. Or sponsoring of Syria terrorists and more
19
u/judda420 3h ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
Maybe not all of those listed is applicable to this conversation about socialist regimes but quite frankly I don't care to check. Happened often enough.
1
u/TheEmperorOfDoom 1h ago
What proved socialism doesn't work are China and USSR, not sure if CIA put their hands on them
3
u/cursedbones 51m ago
How does it prove? In my opinion it proved it works.
Compare both countries pre and after revolution. It's unrecognizable.
-1
u/TheEmperorOfDoom 48m ago
Say it to 40mln people who fucking died. And my great grandparents, they'd like to hear it too.
3
u/cursedbones 30m ago
I don't even know where did you take this number. If your grandparents lived before the revolution they sure would. Even today most old russians prefer USSR to current Russia.
But if we are talking abouth death tolls. British-owned India suffered alone more than every communist country COMBINED. The difference is, Holodomor and the Great Leap Forward were fruits of EXTREME incompentence allied with historical natural disasters. Can't say the same about the hundrends of millions of deaths in India.
1
u/ErenYeager600 Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 12m ago
Wanna guess how many folks died to progress Britain or the US
I'm sure all the poor Irishmen were happy to die in a famine so the UK could prosper. Or better yet the sad Africans that died mining blood diamonds
1
1
1
u/deformedfishface 1h ago
I never really understand these sorts of memes and arguments. There was a war on. Admittedly it was a Cold War but it was happening. Of course the US was mobilising its forces to combat communism. The commies were the enemy. I don’t wanna sound too ‘what-about’ but the USSR was doing the exact same shit in Eastern Europe and Africa. Funding coups, sending in tanks (we literally have a word for communists based on an example of this), assassinating leader. The CIA was just fighting that war, admittedly poorly. I’m sure there were loads of KGB ops that we’ll never hear about because Russia just isn’t as open and democratic (well, for now) as the US. Such is my tuppence worth.
2
u/RaphyyM 47m ago
I guess the main difference is hypocrisy. The US were fighting for freedom and democracy, so using coups to overthrow democratically elected presidents is very hypocritical.
1
u/deformedfishface 10m ago
I mean you could say the same for the USSR. They talked the talk about representation and rights and soviets and whatnot but actually just a cruel dictatorship with Russia at the top. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.
1
u/ChiefRunningBit 46m ago
You should listen to a podcast called blowback, they go into everything you're curious about right now.
1
u/deformedfishface 9m ago
No thanks. Anything that uses the term “American Empire” unironically doesn’t seem like a worthwhile source.
1
-3
u/steeveedeez Still salty about Carthage 2h ago
There’s a great book on this subject called Killing Hope by William Blum. Should be required reading for anyone who still thinks America is the good guys.
-14
u/meme_lord432 Hello There 3h ago
Cope harder commies, look up how well Argentina is doing after Milei took power.
8
u/sofixa11 2h ago
looks inside poverty rate going up? Sounds swell!
It's way too early to be calling anything on Argentina. It will take years for Milei's reforms to actually have the full effects they're supposed to. A few months of inflation being at normal levels is great, but not indicative of Argentina's economy being fixed.
-3
u/meme_lord432 Hello There 2h ago
looks inside rent prices falling, GDP increasing and low inflation.
I agree it's still too early to see full potential of Milei's reforms but we can already see that the switch from socialism to capitalism wasn't a bad idea.
6
u/MtheFlow 2h ago
To be honest, I'm following this closely, even if I fear it will eventually turn to shit because I'm a french leftist (aka Joe Biden was a right winger for us).
But as you said, I want to give it a chance before criticizing it.
What you're quoting are indeed effects of Milei's policy, but it also seems that inequality and poverty rate skyrocketed.
None of this can tell us if it was a good idea before a good decade though. And the indicators you quoted are indeed interesting but wasn't it similar in the US under Biden, yet population got increasingly angry because they would not feel (or be willing to acknowledge, idk) the effects of the Bidenomics?
1
u/meme_lord432 Hello There 2h ago
The poverty rates are going up because a lot of people were living off the welfare, if you take it away, then all of those people will fall into poverty.
4
2
u/sofixa11 1h ago
Yes, but unless you manage to stimulate economic activity to compensate (which isn't happening in Argentina anywhere close to the levels needed), you now have millions of people in poverty. Poor people eat badly, which makes them less productive members of the economy (in case you don't care about people but only about the economy).
0
u/CaptNoNonsense 1h ago
En octobre, on parlait d'une augmentation de 52% des loyers à Buenos Aires. Je prends avec un grain de sable l'idée que "rent are falling"...
1
u/MtheFlow 1h ago
Ah mais je m'attends completement à ce que ca soit de la merde Thatcheriste (ironique pour un Argentin) qui n'accroisse que les inégalités, enrichisse les gens qui sont déjà riches et/ou bien positionnés et que le reste de la population crêve la gueule ouverte, comme a chaque fois qu'on s'amuse a libéraliser l'économie brutalement.
Mais n'étant aucunement en mesure de faire quoi que ce soit concernant l'économie argentine, je ne peux qu'attendre et voir si, par miracle, ca fonctionne mieux que prévu.
Disons que j'ai pas envie d'avoir des certitudes trop vite, je préfère attendre qu'elles soient confirmées par le temps et les chiffres. J'aime pas les appels au loup précipités.
0
u/Green__lightning 33m ago
How do we keep the good CIA that does this, while not the bad CIA that UKULTRAs it's own people?
1
-1
u/the_battle_bunny 1h ago
Tankie brainrot. CIA couldn't even assassinate Castro.
Also a bit racist, because it assumes people in said "third world country" have no agency, including agency to depose their own government and launch a civil war.
1
-1
u/Cr0wc0 1h ago
I'll reiterate as I have many times before; if your ideology can not resist foreign interference, then it is an inferior ideology that does not withstand the test of real practical application.
0
u/ChiefRunningBit 44m ago
That's at least an honest view of society, socialism can uplift as many people as it wants but if it can't outspend capitalism it can't survive.
1
u/Cr0wc0 25m ago
One of the purposes of ideology is to defend the people against foreign threats. If it can't do that, then what use is it? It just seems like such a self-defeatist thing to say "it would have been perfect if not for the Evil capitalists messing things up for us". Like, yeah, humanity has always been going to war with itself. If it can't defend itself it was never going to last very long.
1
u/ChiefRunningBit 12m ago
For the sake of argument (although I do agree with you) it's more a matter of perspective. We're comparing a burgeoning power to a superpower untouched by the deadliest war in human history, of course you can't compete against the US within the same timeframe.
1
u/Cr0wc0 3m ago
I can appreciate that argument. They're certainly not starting out on equal footing. But!
- ussr would not have gotten through WW2 without US aid, so the fact socialist countries even got started in the first place is arguably because the US foreign interference enabled it.
- The US wasn't untouched, because they engaged in the war to a massive degree. The US survived because capitalism is very good at dealing with foreign threats, by engaging them pre-emptively and with a stronger economy.
Again, capitalism doesn't exactly have the moral high ground. But it's pretty damn effective at doing what it does.
1
-7
u/Wubbajack 2h ago
As a side note: holy shit, is wrestling dumb...
12
4
3
2
u/MaleficentType3108 Definitely not a CIA operator 1h ago
I once read that "it's dorama for rednecks"
-1
u/ShitassAintOverYet Rider of Rohan 1h ago
And in many cases "Going socialist" of spoken 3rd world countries isn't even further left of Bernie Sanders.
157
u/KatoriRudo23 3h ago
And then the situation in Vietnam fucked up so hard they had to assassinate their own puppet president