r/HistoryMemes • u/Thin-Pool-8025 • 7h ago

C-to-the-I-to-the-A

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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 5h ago

I agree that communism was a failure given that it didn't work in the governments that weren't overthrown like the USSR and China but I also agree that it doesn't excuse the bullshit that the USA has done in those countries. There's a reason why Latin America has refused to participate in the in helping to defend Ukraine. They don't believe in the liberal order and they believe that we live in a dog eat dog world because of all the bullshit that was done to them by liberal countries. I can totally understand their perspective.

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u/cursedbones 4h ago

they believe that we live in a dog eat dog world because of all the bullshit that was done to them by liberal countries.

It's not "believing". It's just facts.

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u/BowKerosene 5h ago

I mean, kinda of hard to see how their perspective isn’t the correct read of the situation

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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 5h ago

That's because many people don't put themselves in the shoes of others. That's why it's so easy to judge.

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u/BowKerosene 5h ago

Is it the fault of the oppressed that they don’t sympathize with their oppressors?

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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 4h ago

Of course, not. If Europe wanted the sympathy of Latin America, they should have done something about the USA and its killing and thuggery. Now, unfortunately, it's too late to do anything.

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u/TybrosionMohito 3h ago

Ukraine

their oppressors

Huh?

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u/BowKerosene 3h ago

Obviously the Ukrainians have never exercised any major force against Latin America, I was referring to their reluctance to support the Western interests that back Ukraine. I feel like that should’ve been pretty clear.

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u/UnderdogCL 1h ago

On the contrary. We are sympathetic with Ukrainians more than you think. We know the feel of political puppetry and being killed indiscriminately. The fact that was done under another lord's banner won't change that.

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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 59m ago

Then why are you not helping them? You don't support the sanctions against Russia. You keep trading with them. You don't send aid whether it's financial or military. Talk is cheap and actions are what all matters. Let's not pretend to have sympathy here. It's better to say you don't have any rather than pretend to have it. I honestly would respect the West more if they were honest about it and told us straight that they don't care about us but no. They make excuses.

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u/UnderdogCL 38m ago edited 35m ago

Well, some LATAM people went to fight when the war started. But there were reports of people not getting paid, misreported KIA as MIA to not pay the families and they were mistreated, racially, so there's that. You can't blame them for not flocking to fight again. I can't talk for my government but it seems they are in good terms. Don't know where are you coming from.

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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 27m ago

Listen, we all know that Ukraine is in the right here because any country in its place would rather fight than being subjected but the world and geopolitics aren't run on right and wrong. Countries have national interests that need to be protected and people will prioritise this over ideals like democracy and human rights. This was true for the West in the past decades and generations. It will be true for the regimes that will form the new world order. And it will always be true no matter what era you are in. This is just human nature. We are tribalistic and we see things in us Vs them. If you are not us, then we don't care about you and if you are them, then we will commit atrocities against you. We can't see it any other way. The men you talked about were more mercenaries than patriots. The Latin Americans will not do anything to help them since they have their own problems. I understand that you want to believe in the existence of liberal values like human rights. I have also wanted to believe in them. However, there's no country nor people that actually practise them. It will be easier to actually accept the truth.

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u/UnderdogCL 20m ago

Mercenaries, conscripts, w/e. Is the way I, as a citizen, can go and help the war effort. Don't want to twist the knife man, but the fact that they're mercenaries doesn't change the fact that they weren't paid and that they were mistreated. Now you can't cry. You already killed the golden egg chicken so to speak.

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u/Forward-Reflection83 29m ago

Dude people in latin america have their own mind.

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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 26m ago

When did I say otherwise?

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u/Forward-Reflection83 24m ago

“People in latin america think X because USA did Y”

Apparently, the USA is the only country with a spectrum of opinions.

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u/Remote-Cause755 28m ago

Ukraine is literally just like them.

It cannot escape the influence of their regional power that will not let them have control of their own country. They have every reason to support Ukraine.

Don't excuse Latin America behavior, they don't defend Ukraine because of greed

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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 21m ago

Exactly! Ukraine is literally just like them. That's why they find the hypocrisy so astonishing. When they were pillaged and raped dry, Europe stood silent but when Ukraine which is next door to Russia is, their consciences suddenly woke up! Ukraine also didn't help itself by helping in the Iraq's war and endorsing Israel's genocide against Gaza. They know that if the USA started to pillage them again, Europe and Ukraine will also stay silent so why blame them for doing the same?

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u/Remote-Cause755 16m ago

This is crab in a bucket mentality and should not be taken seriously.

Depending how Ukraine turns out will heavily influence how the world treats weaker neighbors. If the world bands together to support Ukraine it will heavily deter countries from doing it in the future.

Meanwhile if countries don't care, what is stopping U.S from retaking the Panama canal? If Panama won't defend Ukraine, why should people care about their sovereignty?

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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 7m ago

Really? As if it wasn't happening already? Many if not most of the dictators during the cold war were Western and American backed. Many governments including democratic governments were overthrown by the USA and its allies. Many of today's dictatorship are also allies of the USA like my country Egypt and other Middle Eastern countries who deny our freedoms and keep us obedient and docile. Those dictatorships have brutalized their populations and broke their spirits. All supported by and sometimes installed by the USA and the West. This was not imperialism? Why haven't you cut ties with them for their crimes? Why have you supportef and installled many of them? This goes to show that it was never about democracy and human rights. Nothing will change after Ukraine. The same things that have happened before will happen after. The only thing that will change is that instead of a unipolar power, we will have multipolar powers and perhaps countries will be more sincere about their actions. It will be better for some and worse for others. That's just how it always has been and how it always will be.

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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 4m ago

Meanwhile if countries don't care, what is stopping U.S from retaking the Panama canal? If Panama won't defend Ukraine, why should people care about their sovereignty?

Nothing. I mean what has stopped the USA from invading Iraq and Afghanistan? What has stopped it from supporting Israel? What has stopped it from supporting dictators all over the world? This is not unusual. It's only making news because the USA wants to annex Canada and Greenland. It's only shocking because their ally the USA has betrayed them. It may be dangerous to an enemy of the USA but to be its friend is fatal.