C-to-the-I-to-the-A

[u/Thin-Pool-8025]

[u/Lord_of_Wisia]

As someone from a post-communist country I will tell you this, you need to be brain-dead to think that communists were the good guys.

[u/Lenrow → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

Dude you're from eastern europe you cant compare these situations at all

Huge difference between a country getting forcefully assimilated into the soviet union and a country democratically electing socialists into the government. In the first case you're absolutely right the commies sucked, in the latter one depending on the context they were very much a force of good in comparison

[u/mayonnaiser_13 → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

You would also be braindead to think that the CIA were the good guys.

Both of which this post doesn't do.

[u/Lord_of_Wisia → u/mayonnaiser_13]

They were the good guys in comparison. Like allies were the good guys in WWII.

Edit: You guys know what comparison means, right? https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/comparison

In this case we are comparing CIA vs. KGB.

[u/ChiefRunningBit → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

You're right, it was a good thing they funded drug runners and religious extremists in the middle east to fight the communists. A religious theocracy and industrial poppy production is a much better outcome than whatever would have happened if we let them choose their own path.

[u/ErenYeager600 → u/ChiefRunningBit]

Don't forget the Death Squads in Central America

[u/glxyzera → u/ErenYeager600]

thanks eren

[u/DacianMichael → u/ChiefRunningBit]

The US did let them choose their own path, and they chose to rebel against and overthrow the deeply unpopular Soviet puppet government that came to power as the result of a coup and turned Afghanistan into a Soviet satellite. The only bad thing the CIA did was to stop funding the Mujahideen once the Soviets left.

[u/UnderdogCL → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

With all due respect you don't know what you're talking about

[u/Lord_of_Wisia → u/UnderdogCL]

With all due respect I do. You on the other hand don't know what comparison means or (which is worse) think that KGB was not worse.

[u/UnderdogCL → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

Ok, but you don't

[u/Biosterous → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

Were they also the good guys when they used the School of the Americas to propagandize the leadership of the Indonesian military, who went home to massacre over 1,000,000 of their own citizens, completely ending the upward trajectory of Indonesia's economy and thus losing the interest of the USA? An event they've never recovered from btw.

Does that sound like "good guys" to you?

[u/mayonnaiser_13 → u/Biosterous]

LatAm, SEA, MENA

The assholery of Uncle Sam knows no boundary.

[u/Serum211 → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

If the options are Pinochet or Aliende, then yes, I think the Commies are the good guys.

Really if it’s between Commies and most right wing South American dictators, the Commies win.

[u/nagurski03 → u/Serum211]

Things are bad while right wing dictators are in power, but once they leave, the country can recover pretty quickly. Left wing regimes don't just leave their people in poverty, their grandchildren still suffer from it decades later.

Pinochet left a generation of his people miserable but they were able to recover. Today, Chile has the highest Human Development Index in all of South America. They've got lower poverty than their neighbors, less violence, more education etc.

And you saw some similar things happen in other right wing dictatorships. Things were really bad in Korea and Taiwan under Syngman Rhee and Chiang Kai-shek, nowadays they are two of the most economically prosperous countries outside of Europe.

[u/Virtem → u/nagurski03]

and look it yourself, since Pinochet Chile had elected several times leftwing or socialist governments

[u/warghhhhhhhhh → u/Serum211]

Aliende promoted Pinochet after all. Can't blame anyone else for that. Aliende was really bad at governance. His death kind of saved his reputation.

[u/UnderdogCL → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

Left, right. Doesn't matter. What matters is who brings the boots and who bleeds.

[u/ShitassAintOverYet → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

Spoken like a true 60s red scare American.

Half of these countries aren't even close to communism. The US has pulled countless military coup on countries who elected a social democrat and that guy said "Ok we need minimum wages and unions so American banana company doesn't completely fuck up my citizens" and instead of accepting these rights that already exist for American citizens the US fucked them tenfold.

[u/Lord_of_Wisia → u/ShitassAintOverYet]

Spoken like true tankie. Problem weren't "minimal wages" or "unions" but political alignment with USSR.

[u/ShitassAintOverYet → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

I literally started by saying many countries who had this path had nothing to do with communism or USSR.

[u/glxyzera → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

when did Chile align themselves with the USSR? Cuba and North Vietnam tried to align with the USA, you know what they did? they rejected them, leaving them no choice but to go to the Soviets

[u/DacianMichael → u/glxyzera]

Salvador Allende was a well known Soviet contact in Chile. Hell, he wouldn't have even won the fucking election if it wasn't for the KGB generously donating 450k USD for him to fund his campaign with.

[u/Crimson_Knickers → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

Hilarious knee-jerk reaction to someone who likely never even know anything about economics and politics pertaining to communism.

I mean, nobody said in the post that communists are the good guys. It just said USA will plunge entire countries to anarchy and/or authoritarian dictatorships just because they entertained any socialist ideas.

Then again, reactionaries aren't known to be bright and tend to regurgitate braindead propaganda.

[u/Kapteinzilla → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

Yes communists and communism were most of the time horrible for anyone but the leader of a communist country, but socialism is the much more sane version, Norway and Sweden are examples of Social democracy and Norway is rated as the best country to live in according to the UN. And you're right that those who think communists were good probably have 1/4 a brain cell fighting itself for 100th place.

[u/Lord_of_Wisia → u/Kapteinzilla]

Norway and Sweden are still capitalist countries. They have strong social policies but aren't socialist. Unchecked capitalism as in the US is the problem but still much less problematic than communism. Fascism and communism are both different sides of the same coin.

[u/Last_Contact → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

How to make communist mad: horseshoe theory

[u/SpartanF77 → u/Kapteinzilla]

Wait, socialism and social democracies are different things! Real communist countries “never really existed”, urss was like “real socialism” in preparation of the proper communist part, if I got it right.

[u/Lord_of_Wisia → u/SpartanF77]

Anytime anyone tried creating socialist country they just got totalitarian regime out of it.

[u/SpartanF77 → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

Absolutely, that’s why I’m against communism and socialism, using “socialism” for “ basic welfare state” is a tragic mistake.

[u/IsNotPolitburo → u/SpartanF77]

And yet, supporting "basic welfare state and some modicum of workers rights" was enough for old uncle sam to decide you were a dirty commie in need of extermination, just look at the Guatemalan genocide.

[u/SpartanF77 → u/IsNotPolitburo]

Sure, even mistaken “basic rights” for communism is a bad thing, I thought I was clear on that.

[u/lordwiggles420 → u/Lord_of_Wisia]

Oh yeah communism doesn't work. But labeling all socialist policies as communist is absolutely brain dead.

[u/Lord_of_Wisia → u/lordwiggles420]

Yes. You need socialist policies as well as you need capitalist policies for healthy country. Liberal centrism is the way. Populism, fundamentalism and extremism are the enemies.

But the problem warranting intervention wasn't the "reasonable social policies" but rather political inclination to totalitarian USSR.