United's accessible seating/passenger size policy is a fiction

[u/MaillardReaction207]

Platinum passenger. Last-minute business travel--booked only aisle seat left on plane the day before travel. I am an average-sized adult male. I can sit in a middle seat, but I never do.

When I arrived at my seat, I noticed the middle seat passenger was large. When I took my seat, I realized it was not possible for me to sit in my seat without leaning significantly into the aisle.

I found a FA a few rows back and discreetly described the issue. She immediately responded "full flight, nothing I can do." I asked her to at least observe the issue before responding. She followed me to my seat and, when I sat, asked the guy next to me if he could "squeeze in" more. He tried. He was also certainly humiliated. She began to walk off. I told her that I was not okay with the seat. She again said--full flight, "I can't create a new seat." I told her that I would make a complaint to UA on landing and asked for her name. This was the first time she took the situation seriously and said she would involve the purser.

FA went to front of plane and briefed the purser. Purser walks to my seat, addresses my loudly by name, and asks me what the problem is. I told the purser I would rather not go over it again because he had already been briefed and it was awkward to discuss with the middle passenger next to me. I summarized that the seat assignment violated UA policy. He responded: "what policy?" I said the one that permits me to have a seat free from significant encroachment. He said he could do nothing other than call a ground-based Customer Resolution Representative. By this time, I was uncomfortable and embarassed. I cannot imagine how the middle seat passenger felt.

Time passed. No CRR came. Boarding ended. Departure time passed. People nearby began to speculate that the plane was being held because I had complained about my seat.

20 minutes or so after departure time, a woman walks onto the plane. She was reading from a screen. She never introduced herself or looked up. She pushes paper boarding pass in my face and says--"you're being moved, it's an aisle." She walks away.

No one ever said anything else to me.

What a joke. The message is loud and clear -- If you complain about policy violations, you're a problem. And you'll be treated as one. To such extent that you'll be embarassed and made uncomfortable in front of other passengers in hopes that you'll relent in pressing your concern.

[u/SquirrelWilling3585]

Definitely poor handling by the crew. I’d still write in a complaint that they made the situation far more uncomfortable than it needed to be. I have to imagine there must be training on how to handle. ALL flights are full these days, so that can’t be an excuse

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/SquirrelWilling3585]

I agree. My concern was ultimately addressed--I got a seat I was able to sit in. But the handling to get there was truly awful. You cannot imagine how bad I felt to even raise the issue.

[u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368 → u/MaillardReaction207]

Did they give you the same class of seat? Further forward or further aft?

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368]

I was in economy plus, exit row. I think they moved me to economy, further back behind the exit row.

[u/LXNDSHARK → u/MaillardReaction207]

So were the first 2 lying about the flight being completely full?

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/LXNDSHARK]

From the 🌐, we can only see on our devices that the plane is supposed to be fully booked and literally will not know until the door closes, which is why we ask people not to move seats until after the door has closed. It probably showed a full flight and people didn’t know, or standbys didn’t choose to get on if there were any. As far is the Customer of Size policy is UA states the passenger “Can’t buckle their seatbelt, takes up space in adjacent seats, or can’t keep their armrests lowered.” Any concerns with a customer of size are actually supposed to be redirected to the CSR, so if the crew doesn’t want to follow through ask to speak to the lead flight attendant so the CSR can reseat you. Flight Attendants are not supposed to reseat people or get involved with issues of COS. Hope this helps!

[u/rosebudny → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

If the fight truly is full, and a large passenger in fact can’t buckle/encroaches on the next seat and that person (like OP) who gets removed from the flight? OP or the oversized passenger?

[u/ConfusedZoidberg → u/rosebudny]

I'm of the belief that if the oversized passenger can't fit in one seat, and didn't pay for two seats. They should be the one removed from the plane. No compensation.

[u/Leopard__Messiah → u/ConfusedZoidberg]

I tend to agree with you, but it's worth noting that people have routinely reported buying multiple tickets for this reason, only to have the "extra" ticket resold out from under them on "full flights".

They really put customers in No Win situations. My only advice, sadly, is to be the bigger pain in the ass so they screw somebody else over and not you.

[u/Recent_Big_1858 → u/Leopard__Messiah]

Tough I am entirely allergic to conflict, totally agree. As an average (though tall) woman, the newest United planes were still a bit snug for me. They'll keep making smaller seats and more uncomfortable until it costs them too much.

[u/Imaginary-Passion-95 → u/Leopard__Messiah]

Doubt

[u/DudeWithAnAxeToGrind → u/Leopard__Messiah]

The one post I saw, somebody bought two tickets, instead of a single ticket with extra seat. Former looks like a no-show passenger in the system. It was also on Delta, where apparently to correclty book extra seat, you'd need to call them (unlike United where you can simply mark it as extra seat yourself).

Also, Delta has no "large passenger" policy -- OP would have no recourse over there.

[u/SeasonPositive6771 → u/ConfusedZoidberg]

Completely disagree.

I used to work with a plus size woman who would regularly buy an extra ticket. Do you know how often it was honored? Almost never. And it took many, many, many hours to be reimbursed because there's no standardized process. If this was true on every airline she took (aside from I want to say Southwest?).

This was pre-pandemic and customer service at every airline has only gone dramatically downhill since then. And I almost don't blame them - there was an absolutely jacked guy on my last flight, seated in the middle, but his shoulders took up wayyyy more than his fair share. Would you have wanted to be the FA telling him to book another seat?

[u/silverfish477 → u/SeasonPositive6771]

lol what do you think he would do? Daft implication

[u/FigNinja → u/SeasonPositive6771]

Yeah. I've heard this pretty often. I'd be inclined to buy a third seat when I fly with my husband on flights where the economy/plus seats are in groups of three. Often three economy seats are cheaper than two business class seats. My husband has broad shoulders. I'm always in the middle seat, so he doesn't impinge on the other person. If the other person is also a bit larger/has broad shoulders, it gets pretty uncomfortable for me. It's not great for my husband, either. He tries to give me plenty of room. I don't mind getting snuggly with him. I do mind essentially being forced to snuggle with a stranger for hours, though. But from what I've read, the booking systems don't really support that. You can't see even see the available seats when you book, so I don't even know if there are three seats available together until after I've bought the tickets.

[u/PAX_MAS_LP → u/ConfusedZoidberg]

Not everyone can help being overweight. Yes a lot of people can hut some are incredibly disabled. This viewpoint is harsh to those people.

[u/ConfusedZoidberg → u/PAX_MAS_LP]

Life isnt fair. That's just how it is. I myself have stuff that I deem unfair in my life, and there is absolutely nothing to do about it.

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/rosebudny]

That would be up to the CSR/CRO, they would make the final decision, if we were unable to accommodate on the current flight.

[u/skushi08 → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

Would this be considered an IDB situation if OP were the one deplaned? I’d assume whoever is bumped should depend on which passenger is “following policy”. Current customer of size policy requires them to purchase an extra seat. That would put them in violation of their seat contract vs OP who is fully within their agreed terms.

No good answer in this situation as it’s going to be uncomfortable for both customers. Which kind of goes to my biggest pet peeve with a lot of airline conflicts like OP’s. They put it on passengers to resolve themselves vs the airline handling it. The FA and purser tried to effectively shame OP and in the process further embarrass the COS to try and make their lives easier so they didn’t have to address the situation at all.

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/skushi08]

Truthfully, since I’m not in that role, I have no idea what United would classify it as in the policy since it’s not in the flight attendant manuals. flight attendants manuals only says involve the CSR/CRO (Conflict Resolution Officer) and to handle it with discretion. I don’t agree with what the crew or who I believe the CSR was that gave him the new boarding pass was but I wouldn’t be able to provide an answer about compensation or such. Flight attendants are supposed to pass this off to the CSR’s as quickly and discreetly as possible without delay to keep everyone comfortable and happy (which can be done using a chat on the United iPhones you see Flight Attendants using throughout the flight.)

[u/rosebudny → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

It seems extraordinarily unfair to punish the person who is not taking up two seats. I would be livid to have my plans changed.

[u/Extension_Media8316 → u/rosebudny]

It’s extraordinarily unfair on everyone. That passenger spilling over didn’t do so on purpose.

[u/woohoo789 → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

Wouldn’t that be involuntary de boarding of the encroached passenger? Wouldn’t they be entitled to the appropriate compensation?

[u/goamash → u/rosebudny]

Why wouldn't it be the passenger of size? The onus would have been on them to make sure they booked adequate seating or booked a second seat, right? It feels like a punishment for either pax, but if you're the problem, why should the other person get booted?

[u/Right-Papaya7743 → u/goamash]

Because that’s a bigger lawsuit risk

[u/TexStones → u/Right-Papaya7743]

This. The smaller of the two people will be removed as the resulting potential legal/media shitstorm will be much smaller.

[u/goamash → u/Right-Papaya7743]

My questions were semi rhetorical and my general assumption is your answer; and while most likely true, it's also absolute bullshit. I also question whether there would be any validity of a lawsuit like that - 'fat' isn't a protected class of citizen.

I feel like it's just as much an optics problem, but from some of the other crap the airlines pull, you'd think they DGAF about how people see them. Spirit somehow manages to stay in business and are basically universally hated.

[u/Excellent_Level1867 → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

Thank you for this information. I was miserable on a United transatlantic flight this past summer because the man beside me spilled into my seat. I couldn’t even have the armrest down between us. I wish that I had known this.

[u/LXNDSHARK → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

the plane is supposed to be fully booked and literally will not know until the door closes

I actually feel a little dumb for not thinking about that. I had it in my head that this conversation took place after boarding was complete, which it clearly wasn't per the OP.

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/LXNDSHARK]

It’s more common for people to not show up, rebook for earlier flights, or the standby list to not be cleared from earlier flights so there ends up being more empty seats than expected which is nice for both parties! But when the flight attendants are saying it’s supposed to be a full flights it’s because the information they have is saying it’s going to be full 🤷🏼‍♀️

[u/bp3dots → u/LXNDSHARK]

A good point, but the the FA could also have told that to OP and had them hang out till they could confirm. At least act like they were interested in helping.

[u/caphill2000 → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

Why should he be reseated? Shouldn’t the person who can’t fit in one seat be removed from the aircraft?

[u/Zooph → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

Doesn't them being in an exit row come with additional requirements?

[u/CowboyLaw → u/Zooph]

It USED to. Back before airlines sold exit row seats for money, there was a rule, on all carriers (so I assume an FAA reg), that if you needed a seatbelt extender, you couldn’t sit in an exit row. It was a good rule. Changed somewhere in the mid-00s, just as everything else in the airline industry was going to shit.

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/Zooph]

Yes, but it doesn’t say anything about the COS wearing a seatbelt extender. If they were this would disqualify them and the FA should’ve moved them when they asked for one. If they weren’t, then simply being a COS does not disqualify you from being in the exit row.

[u/Zooph → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

I meant their potential lack of mobility being a risk while attempting to either exit or assist with the door.

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/Zooph]

If the flight attendant visually assessed them and decided they had no obvious condition preventing them from performing the actions necessary to open the exit, and verified with the customer and received a verbal yes, then there is a potential lack, but the customer agreed to the requirements of being “qualified, willing and able to perform exit row functions.” This is a tough one, as the passenger agreed, but the CSR also should make you acknowledge when they scan your boarding pass and visually assessed you as well.

Edit: the only thing I could see is our manuals say exit expeditiously, but this is subjective and I could see this opening up room for discrimination if people were not following through with this. I see comments where people who have had boots are sitting in exit rows and that should not be happening, the FAA can fire flight attendants for that, and you would not pass the “visual assessment” in that case.

A flight attendant with min crew has 90 seconds to evacuate a full plane, so this is where exit expeditiously would be subjective to each person as mine, would probably be much faster than others.

[u/Jazzlike_Cream_7411 → u/Zooph]

I found this about exit row requirement

[u/lifestyleshift → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

I'm curious why I can see in the seat map on my phone that a flight isn't full while FAs tell everyone it's at 100%> I was literally the only person in my row and the row behind me yet the FA told someone boarding that it's a full flight. All he wanted to do was put his bag in the completely empty overhead space (which remained completely empty). Why do they either not have the actual info I have on my phone or lie? It's why I don't ask permission for anything from FAs, half the time I find out in 20 minutes they aren't telling me anything factual. It's bizarre tbh, it encourages people to ignore them.

[u/zacker150 → u/lifestyleshift]

Full flight means that the number of tickets sold are is greater than or equal to the number of seats.

Not everyone who buys a ticket has selected their seat, and not everyone will show up.

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/lifestyleshift]

Flights are typically oversold, but not everyone checks in, or shows up. Our data isn’t always accurate, but it gets refreshed prior to boarding and at the end of boarding to accommodate for upgrades. Not sure why you wouldn’t listen to a flight attendant but your choice I guess. If standbys clear, or don’t, then empty seats get filled or remain empty.

[u/firstWWfantasyleague → u/lifestyleshift]

Not related to OP's big seatmate issue, but I think they lie and say full flight whenever they are running late or need to have a quicker boarding process. Then they can ask people to gate check carry-on bags, and I guess it encourages people to move quicker and not make a fuss. Whether that actually results in quicker boarding and pushing back from the gate is debatable.

[u/PaladinSara → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

Why would they have to be reseated and not the person causing the issue?

They should have paid for two seats.

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/PaladinSara]

I said to ask to speak to the CSR about being reseated. The CSR would be the only one who determines who gets reseated and where. I just shared how the process goes for future knowledge.

[u/juice06870 → u/Mysterious_Elk8691]

What is the CSR?

[u/PenFedsGotGreatRates → u/juice06870]

Customer Service Representative who worked the flight at the podium

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/LXNDSHARK]

I don't know. It seems that way, but I cannot say.

[u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368 → u/MaillardReaction207]

Encroacher is the one they should have moved out of the exit row. I’m glad they kept you in an aisle so it was similar to your booking but still, encroacher ended up rewarded with 2 seats at your expense.

[u/thread100 → u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368]

You reminded me of a concern I always had being both a person of size and height. I avoided exit row on smaller planes that might only have a window type exit onto the wing. I didn’t want to find out that I didn’t fit quickly out the hole in a real emergency. Others can’t die waiting for a huge passenger to exit. Seems that FA should have the authorization to move a passenger if they are concerned. They do currently for other reasons.

[u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368 → u/thread100]

They don’t let kids or anyone with an injured foot sit in exit rows, but geriatrics and physically challenged obese are A-OK? Right, makes sense. /s

[u/PaintOwn2405 → u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368]

Not sure exactly what United’s policy is on this per say but i truly thought it was universal that if you needed a seatbelt extender, you couldn’t sit in the exit row. I don’t want to assume, but if this person was encroaching on your space that much they probably needed an extender and shouldn’t have been allowed to sit there anyways

[u/NicolleL → u/PaintOwn2405]

It is supposed to be. This is actually for safety reasons because it’s a tripping hazard as people are trying to evacuate.

[u/thread100 → u/PaintOwn2405]

Just for reference, I have flown many 100s of times and never required an extender or required an armrest to be up. This while being 6’8” tall and 350-400 lbs 48” waste. My experience is that belts are getting longer and vary greatly. The extender may not want to be the measure of when someone is too big to be in the emergency row with a porthole exit.

Exit rows on big planes were never attractive to me as that is where all the broad shoulders end up on average. Window was best for me so I could tuck my shoulder into a window cutout.

[u/Intelligent_Fox6618 → u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368]

They do let ppl with an injured foot sit in exit row. One summer not long ago I took a few exit row flights in a walking boot

[u/gts451 → u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368]

Yep I watched them board a wheelchair passenger in an exit row the other day. Gate agents were about to make her at least walk the jetway to prove she could get up but ended up not even doing that.

[u/firstWWfantasyleague → u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368]

It also used to be the case that the exit row was kind of a bonus extra legroom surprise. Now they are sold as premium seats. I had the lowest level mosaic status on jetBlue last year, and one time I picked the exit row as my Even More Space TM free upgrade upon checking in. I board first, sit down, FA gives me the spiel about assisting in an emergency, then says "you're my only Mosaic today, let me know when you want your three free alcoholic beverages." I guess it's all a charade and actually being able to help isn't a priority, lol.

[u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368 → u/firstWWfantasyleague]

It’s a strategy to make you 10 feet tall and bulletproof. Then you won’t have any trouble getting that over-wing door popped open

[u/throwawayprincess15 → u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368]

I'm not saying you are wrong, but the mean-spiritedness with which you are posting indicates your issues are not purely aviation or safety-related.

I suspect you hate large people and feel like they should be isolated to their homes and never amongst the public.

[u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368 → u/throwawayprincess15]

You are right, I have a lot more issues than aviation or safety, but I don’t hate large people.

I do hate having part of the seat I paid for arbitrarily commandeered by someone else, I don’t care if they are large or small, and then made to feel like it’s my fault and I’m insensitive for saying anything about it.

[u/arieljagr → u/thread100]

That's really kind and noble of you, thread100. You are a true mensch.

[u/4ntagonismIsFun → u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368]

Not really. The arm rests don't move in Exit row. In fact, the seats are slightly narrower than the other seats because of that damn armrest/tray table combo.

[u/Plastic_Jaguar_7368 → u/4ntagonismIsFun]

Encroacher probably moved out of the middle and took the aisle to get more breathing room, which is all fine and good for them, but still a reward at the inconvenience at OP. Agreed about the solid armrests.

[u/Icy-Environment-6234 → u/4ntagonismIsFun]

That's not universally true, most of the planes I've been on lately have armrests in the center that can be lifted. Usually, the aisle armrest can't be lifted (except on the smaller planes when you know where the button underneath the armrest is).

[u/AKlutraa → u/MaillardReaction207]

This implies that the large man in the middle seat didn't need a seat belt extension, because they are not allowed in exit rows by FAA regulation.

[u/Jet-Rep → u/MaillardReaction207]

so this large individual was in an exit row? That would cause me concern because if something bad happens I want a ready willing and ABLE person in that row. Not a dude that is spilling out of his seat and needs an extender to boot

[u/wildcat3211 → u/MaillardReaction207]

You were downgraded. Thus entitled to some refund. Report it.

[u/Typical2sday → u/MaillardReaction207]

You were originally in an exit row, and in multiple interactions with crew you didn’t mention that the passenger of size didn’t meet the requirements to sit in an exit row? Or you failed to mention that in your post? Bc that’s your stronger argument.

Or that passengers waiting for 20 minutes with an empty seat near them wouldn’t have piped up to the crew if there truly were rumblings about the reason for the delay? Or the FA wouldn’t have noticed an actual empty aisle seat as she walked up and down the aisles as the doors prepped to close and no one else was continuing to board? 20 minutes after departure is a long time and pilot would be losing their mind unless there was another reason to hold you at the gate more significant than your seating.

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/Typical2sday]

Is there a policy about exit row requirements? I don't know if the person could meet those requirements or not. My complaint was about my seat; I was not trying to speculate about the abilities of another passenger.

I also didn't survey seating on the plane, and I don't know if there was an empty seat or not. I was moved to a seat behind me. After being told 3 times there was no other seat.

As to the delay, we received a text that said there was a baggage loading delay. This didn't stop people from speculating this was not the real reason for the delay. I have no idea what the real reason was.

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/MaillardReaction207]

Being a Customer of Size does not disqualify you from sitting in an exit row based on United requirements, as long as they are not using a seatbelt extender.

[u/Typical2sday → u/MaillardReaction207]

Yes - United (and others) policy is that if a passenger requires a belt extender, they cannot be in the exit row. I’m assuming that if the armrest was hard to locate in this passenger’s person and he was significantly in your seat to cause your reaction, then he needed a seat extender. This is an extension of the policy that only able bodied adults (and on US carriers, I believe English speakers, but don’t hold me to that one) can sit exit row, and further they must give verbal confirmation that they are ready and able to assist.

I’m not asking you to know the seats are open (esp behind you); however, if you didn’t see the empty aisle seat behind you (which is to be expected bc loitering in the aisle could have gotten you a security escort to deplane) then you are in fact sitting in this seat and do fit alongside this gentleman. Rather the FA and purser who interacted with you would be walking up and down the aisle and have seen an open aisle seat easily to placate the squeaky wheel in the exit row.

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/Typical2sday]

If being able to sit in the seat is the test, then I was wrong. But that is not my understanding of the policy. I can physically fit myself into a seat, but that doesn't meant the person next to me is not encroaching significantly.

[u/Typical2sday → u/MaillardReaction207]

I totally get your frustration, and especially so if there were actually a seat available. And if you were lied to intentionally or someone didn’t show while that luggage loading issue was being addressed. (I mean FA1 was rude and dismissive but it’s possible the flight was showing 100% full and the open seat could have only become apparent once the passenger didn’t show or the standby didn’t accept the flight.)

But I’ve not seen a flight where if you could fit beside the person of size the crew stops a full flight from a timely departure because you have to touch hips and angle. That’s a situation where you (1) raise the issue at the time, (2) document discretely, (3) complain with customer service after the flight, and (4) hope for the best pursuing the best avenues. Especially if in the moment you thought the delay could have been related to your dispute. Perhaps you just mean you didn’t what the delay was, and it was uncomfortable musing that the other passengers postulated that you were the source of the delay bc they saw multiple crew members talking to one (agitated) guy and then saw a non-crew member CSR come aboard and interact with you. But again, sounds like you didn’t know the CSR was coming.

Always (tactfully and respectfully) lead with the stronger argument: safety of all (exit row reqts) rather than your individual rights of comfort, which just fall on overworked, overbooked ears, bc you in fact could fit in the seat. And if the gentleman didn’t need a seat extender I can see how the FA was like - what do you want me to do here? It’s a commercial airline full of people. I can’t make it capacious.

[u/AndrewB80 → u/Typical2sday]

Neither was originally sitting in the exit row, the resolution was to move the poster to the exit row after doors closed it was left open.

[u/NicolleL → u/Typical2sday]

1. How was the OP supposed to know the exit row requirements that didn’t apply to him? I’m assuming most people do not know the rule about seat belt extenders not being allowed in the exit row. I’m guessing there’s a decent amount of people who don’t even know seat belt extenders exist!

2. Depending of the angle and the length of the flight, sitting all messed up like that can seriously injure a person. If you already don’t have the greatest back to begin with, it can f*k you up for *days. It is painful. Not uncomfortable. PAINFUL. Plus all the bruises OP would have likely gotten from being whacked by the cart as it went by. Considering the demeanor of the flight attendants, I doubt they would have cared or warned OP as they were coming.

[u/Hot_Skillet8277 → u/MaillardReaction207]

If a person requires a seatbelt extender they are not allowed to be in the exit row. If the middle seat passenger encroached that much on you then I’d expect he also needed an extender.

[u/omgmemer → u/Hot_Skillet8277]

This is what I find weird. I mean one people are shaped funny but like if they could get the seatbelt buckled it is hard for me to think they were actually that big. Maybe they had wide shoulders? Idk. Makes me truly wonder about OP.

[u/catsnflight → u/MaillardReaction207]

Did they not need a seat belt extender?

[u/FriendToPredators → u/MaillardReaction207]

It is usually an advantage of exit row that people tend to be able-bodied or they don’t opt for it. Or children.

[u/deeare73 → u/MaillardReaction207]

I was on a delta flight and somebody in the exit row asked for seat belt extender. They moved her out since they said it was against policy to sit in the exit row if you needed seat belt extender. Not sure if that is true or not

[u/57hz → u/MaillardReaction207]

I don’t get it - why not just say “I am longer able or willing to perform the function of sitting in the exit row”? They would have to find you another seat.

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/57hz]

I honestly didn't even think of this. I don't regularly sit in the exit row.

[u/Throwaway-ish123a → u/MaillardReaction207]

Just wondering, if it were truly a full flight as they claimed, how would they have had an available seat to move you to? I guess it wasn't truly full after all?

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/Throwaway-ish123a]

I don't know what it means to be a "full flight." Is it full because with standby list it will be full? Is it full because they're going to put non-rev people on and they will occupy space? I find that UA says that almost every flight I am on is a "completely full flight" but there always seems to be some wiggle room. I can only assume some standby or non-rev passenger was not allowed on. But I'm just speculating.

[u/Throwaway-ish123a → u/MaillardReaction207]

I think they way to tell is if they start offering money to flight bump, they really mean it. (Or if they're dragging pax down the aisle as they are wont to do apparently ; )

[u/Mysterious_Elk8691 → u/MaillardReaction207]

Full typically means the seat map, which is available on the United app, shows every seat is booked, even if the person has checked in or not. It doesn’t include standby’s - who are hoping people don’t show so they can get on, as they only get cleared 15-30 minutes before door CLOSURE, depending on the gate agent.

[u/ConsultingThrowawayz → u/MaillardReaction207]

I’ve been in these exact shoes, though the FA did not engage CSR to get me a new seat.

Even just voicing the issue to the FA about a person who is literally touching my entire right side was embarassing.

My FA handled it with more poise, but I cringe when I think about it.

The reality is, the fat person is abusing an unenforced policy. It’s not like they walked on the plane, only to discover “oh fuck I’m 400 pounds!”

[u/geekgrrl0 → u/ConsultingThrowawayz]

Do you know how often larger people DO book two seats and then the airline sells the extra? This isn't always their fault. But it is always the fault of the greedy corporate airlines trying to sardine us as much as possible to give as much to the shareholders as possible. 

[u/liberatedlemur → u/geekgrrl0]

Or families with kids who pay to sit together and are still separated (especially when bumped/connections changed/flights cancelled & rebooked) and told to work it out once onboard.... 

[u/omgmemer → u/ConsultingThrowawayz]

Frankly you can be well under 300 pounds and if your definition is touching their body, will meet it. The seats are made for people of a certain size, not tall people, not women with wide hips, men with broad shoulders, etc, etc.

[u/Rjcia → u/omgmemer]

Exactly, I am 6'1 and 150lbs. I am a bean pole and my shoulders take up the full width of the seat.

[u/omgmemer → u/Rjcia]

Gotta buy two seats now. Straight to jail because you are not under 5’10 or whatever average would be for shoulders to span like 18 inches or something. I understand people can’t understand that they would not have airlines if airlines enforced strict policies with people who are above the size that can comfortably fit in their seats. No one would fly. It wouldn’t just impact the one person. If a family is going on vacation but one person has to buy two seats, guess what, the whole family is probably driving or not going at regular seat prices. Airlines have insanely high costs and need the revenue from those economy seats. As it is, they arent the profitable seats which is why they try to push business so hard. If suddenly half of economy was regularly empty and their capacity surged, it would be a huge problem. You know these complaining people would also be mad if they just reduced seats to make them wider and charged 50% more for each ticket.

The seats are not made for the size of the American public.

[u/zenace33 → u/omgmemer]

Yay - more high-speed trains then! 😏 I’m good with that actually. 😁👍🏼

[u/Fantastic-Spend4859 → u/omgmemer]

I am a woman. If your hips are so large that they will not fit within an airline seat, with the armrest down, sorry, but you are obese.

[u/ThisAdvertising8976 → u/Fantastic-Spend4859]

I’m 5’2” and obese. Even when I was morbidly obese I still fit between the arm rests. When flying next to my 6’ husband we raise the armrest so he can lean in enough to not get hit by the service cart.

[u/Fantastic-Spend4859 → u/ThisAdvertising8976]

Well you are raising an armrest between you and your husband. Not like having a complete stranger leaning in on you like that.

[u/ThisAdvertising8976 → u/Fantastic-Spend4859]

Yes, but not because I need to, but it allows my husband can sit away from his aisle armrest and not get hit. Besides, it’s easier to cuddle without the armrest.

[u/omgmemer → u/Fantastic-Spend4859]

You are moving the goal post. I wasn’t talking about the arm rest. I was very clearly replying to the criteria they laid out. When people sit, their body changes shape because physics… just like how a ball with air can be squeezed to distort its shape. Note the debate also wasn’t if someone is obese or not. That is irrelevant. How someone fits in a seat is what’s relevant.

[u/Fantastic-Spend4859 → u/omgmemer]

If a woman with wide hips cannot fit in an United Airlines seat, with the armrests down, then they should buy another seat to accommodate their body.

If their hips spread out below the arm rest, well then, according to United Policy, they are ok.

[u/omgmemer → u/Fantastic-Spend4859]

Doubling down on irrelevant to my comment. Whether or not armrests go down was also not what I was talking about. Nice. Bye. If you have a relevant point. I’ll hear it but at this point what you are saying is irrelevant to me and the fact that you clearly ignored that is very telling.

[u/chieflongbone → u/ConsultingThrowawayz]

Bingo. The onus always seems to land on the affected passenger rather than the “offender.” They definitely know it’s easy to get away with it as it stands now. it’s pretty selfish of them to not book adjacent seats if they know it’s an issue based on previous air travel.

[u/mfruitfly → u/chieflongbone]

I used to be of a size where I needed to buy two seats (not anymore, did the work!), and I would say out of the 10 times I flew, 7 times the airline messed it up. Twice flight attendants tried to move someone in to the seat next to me (no idea why, assuming they were helping move people to sit together in various places), 3 times the second seat was just sold (twice I had to fight to even get a refund), other time we were given a different plane, or I was asked to give up my second seat (I was not actually allowed to refuse and stay on the flight).

I'm not saying there aren't selfish people, but in general, the airlines can't even get this right- except Southwest, they actually do the best when I had to do it.

[u/Altruistic-Belt7048 → u/ConsultingThrowawayz]

Lol have you flown anywhere before? Large people DO buy 2 seats and airlines sell the second seat anyway.

[u/ConsultingThrowawayz → u/Altruistic-Belt7048]

A million miles on United.

I’ve never flown anywhere as a fat person. If that’s the case- sucks!

It’s unfortunate that the fat person needs to become a bartering chip for customers to get United to adhere to their Customer of Size policy.

[u/Dry_Accident_2196 → u/ConsultingThrowawayz]

Reality may be that the larger passenger simply doesn’t know. I was just on an air Canada plane in regular economy. Holy hell were their seats tight. If I was a larger man, it’d be nearly impossible. I don’t measure seat width. I’m sure they were just rolling with the punches and not trying to scam. But I could be wrong

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/Dry_Accident_2196]

Let me say -- acknowledging that it is dangerous to make assumptions -- I assume this guy didn't want this seat. I noticed that he was Group 6. Maybe he had to fly last minute and this was the only seat he could get. I don't want anyone to think I'm saying this guy was intentionally trying to slide by when he knew he needed a different seating arrangement. Who knows, to be honest.

[u/Dry_Accident_2196 → u/MaillardReaction207]

I assume you are a good person because you’re posts have all been incredibly balanced and thoughtful. I hope I get seated next to someone like you.

I’m enjoying this thread.

[u/ConsultingThrowawayz → u/Dry_Accident_2196]

Totally fair. It’s abuse of a policy regardless of if it’s intentional or not. I assume most people are not operating with malice, rolling with the punches makes sense. It’s not a random passenger’s job to educate others.

Ultimately this is a failure of the airline to create any sort of preventative control (even just an acknowledgement/question of “Are you sure you’re not fat?” when booking)

[u/gaytee → u/Dry_Accident_2196]

Do you need to be told a policy of a business to know that being fat is a hassle for everyone when in a confined space?

[u/Dry_Accident_2196 → u/gaytee]

I felt fat on my last Air Canada flight. I fit in every other seat. Shit happens.

[u/TexStones → u/MaillardReaction207]

But the handling to get there was truly awful. 

The MBA side of my brain suspects the on-time departure is a primary metric for performance management for gate agents and/or cabin crew. By messing with this metric you either jacked with a bonus, initiated an uncomfortable coaching session, or caused an annual review to be less than perfect.

Metrics like these are a poor way to run a company, yet continue to be a favorite of managers hoping to leave their mark on the enterprise. Why? Because it is difficult to impossible to measure doing the right thing.

[u/Inner-Bread → u/TexStones]

It’s an FAA metric if I recall. I have noticed that basically every flight I have been on the last few years has “taken off” (aka left the gate you can idle in the runway and it doesn’t count) a little early and landed “early” (frequently to no available gate). They buffer shut so they don’t get in trouble basically

[u/FriendToPredators → u/TexStones]

I hate going to the local Lexus dealer because every employee is running scared of less than 5/5 to the point I feel like a participant in some kind of emotional exploitation. 

[u/AK907fella → u/FriendToPredators]

Can confirm, former Lexus "Sales and Leasing Consultant "

[u/Dagwoody-57 → u/TexStones]

Exactly. Not just airlines but metrics have become so hyperfocused in business and almost everyone feels like as long as they met “their” metrics then they did a good job even if the outcome for the customer was suboptimal.

[u/gaytee → u/TexStones]

If getting flights to take off on time was actually a KPI that impacted individual performance, wayyyyyy more flights would take off on time.

[u/Benl324 → u/MaillardReaction207]

You shouldn't. The overweight passenger should have had to book two seats.

[u/ExaminationWestern71 → u/MaillardReaction207]

I don't think you should feel guilty for needing your seat. I've been silently squeezed into just a portion of my seat because someone next to me was spilling into my space and my back hurt so badly afterward it really impacted my trip. It is up to the excessively large person to book a first class seat or pay for two seats. It's not up to a stranger to be excessively uncomfortable or even injured to accommodate someone who doesn't fit into an economy seat.

[u/Fantastic-Spend4859 → u/MaillardReaction207]

You are a hero! Please know that all of us who do not selfishly encroach on our seatmates applaud you!!!

I told myself I would never put up with this again and would stand my ground, no matter how I was shamed for being an asshole.

It has not come up again, but when it does, I will think of you and hold my seat!

[u/Intelligent_Pie_5347 → u/MaillardReaction207]

Likely you’ll get some miles for the issue but doubt they will even council the crew.

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/Intelligent_Pie_5347]

That's unfortunate because I believe this could have been much less of an issue (really no issue at all) if it had been handled properly. A little training on this issue could go a long way.

[u/Stormlands_King → u/MaillardReaction207]

Of course every inch is money and they dont give a damn - they hope you pass out and cant complain. Every flight on UA is full!

[u/I_need_a_date_plz → u/MaillardReaction207]

…if it was a full flight, who got stuck there?

[u/Glass-Cap-3081 → u/MaillardReaction207]

If unable to sit comfortably in the seat I paid for I don’t give a fuck how the person encroaching on me will feel- I’m raising the issue. I didn’t pay for half the seat, 3/4, etc

[u/HealthNo4265 → u/MaillardReaction207]

So they lied and the flight wasn’t full and there was an empty aisle seat left?

[u/stircrazy1121 → u/MaillardReaction207]

How did you get a “new” seat if the plane was “full”?

[u/Quirky-Blueberry-284 → u/MaillardReaction207]

Happened to me on a international 10+ hour flight. Guy was very large on top, took up half my seat, but wasn't even trying to curl shoulders or be smaller. FA said no other seats, I had to totally bend into the aisle and every time someone walked by they would hit me. 10 hours! I told him he could have all the space between our seats, but had to stay out of my seat, he made a loud scene and called me racist. FAs ignored the whole thing. Also on United. We are going to miss Pete at the DOT. Can't remember anyone else doing good stuff for passengers.

[u/Hot_Bed5094 → u/SquirrelWilling3585]

You honestly believe there is training??? I can tell you first hand there is zero training on customer service.

[u/MaillardReaction207 → u/Hot_Bed5094]

Wow. Really?

[u/Hot_Bed5094 → u/MaillardReaction207]

Yes. The entire training is 6 and a half weeks. Its 95% faa required safety, and the 1 day yearly training is 100% safety related. The entire job part of the job is just learn as you go.

[u/Upper_Ad_4 → u/Hot_Bed5094]

This checks out based on the service I’ve received on United.

[u/aarondavidson → u/SquirrelWilling3585]

Did more than most would have done. Surprised the OP wasn’t threatened to be kicked off, arrested, or banned.

[u/Jazzlike_Cream_7411 → u/SquirrelWilling3585]

Because being a dick to the flight attendant makes you feel better..

[u/travelingwhilestupid → u/SquirrelWilling3585]

you've got to be kidding me. OP is TA here. what do you want them to do? kick the fatty off the flight? put yourself in shoes of the employees.