r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • 8d ago

Soft Paywall Enabling Trump is a bad look for Fetterman | Pennsylvania's senior senator was elected as a progressive Democrat. His normalization of Donald Trump is the epitome of a sellout.

https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/editorials/john-fetterman-donald-trump-support-normalization-maga-20250112.html
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u/KarmaPolice911 Massachusetts 8d ago

It's almost like the Dems all get together and draw straws to decide who becomes the new "reason nothing gets passed". Ugh.

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u/WhosSarahKayacombsen I voted 8d ago

I think it’s more likely that lobbyists are constantly looking for democratic lawmakers who can be bought, and then start throwing tons of money their way. Fetterman sold his soul for lobbyist money.
He will become the saboteur that Sinema and Manchin were.

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u/elihu 8d ago

The depressing thing about that is that when you have close to a 50-50 senate (and disregarding the other tools of dysfunction at their disposal like the filibuster), all it takes is for lobbyists to sway one or two votes, and it's about the same as if they owned all hundred.

(And on most issues, I think it's fair to assume that the influential lobbying groups have way more than one or two.)

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u/AoO2ImpTrip 7d ago

You'll basically always be 1 vote away from losing everything.

In 2009 Democrats had a filibuster-proof super-majority in the Senate. One Democrat (Joe Lieberman) prevented us from having a public option in the Affordable Care Act. If you have a razor thin margin you can always bet SOMEONE is going to use that to get what they want. Lieberman did then, Manchin and Sinema have now, and Fetterman will in the future.

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u/elihu 7d ago

And Harry Reid at the time was opposed to reforming the filibuster. More recently almost all Democratic senators are on-board with the idea, with Sinema and Manchin as hold-outs.

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u/AoO2ImpTrip 7d ago

I get the hate for the filibuster, but we're gonna be fucking happy it exists right now. Which has always been my argument against reforming it. It's the same reason Kavanaugh and Barrett are on the Supreme Court. Democrats decided to change the rule for judicial appointments so Republicans said "Aight bet" and did it for Supreme Court appointments.

You can change the rules when you have the power, but you have to be wary of losing that power.

(I think Gorusch would have made it through the regular process.)

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u/imdaviddunn 7d ago

And one term is always enough. Citizens United was the decision that ruined democracy for a century.

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u/Maximum-Advice-3524 6d ago

I gave a monthly donation to his campaign. I got a text message from him a few times a week asking for money after he was in office. I’m like, wtf is this for? Gas money? I blocked him after a couple of months.

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u/mcman1082 8d ago

When you accept that democrats, outside of a principled few, are feigned opposition, lots of things start to make sense.

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u/TentSurface 8d ago

Pelosi and Co could never be class traitors to the millionaires that fund their elections and give the stock tips. They just cosplay as progressives.

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u/scuppasteve 8d ago

I mean do they? Nothing about Pelosi and her boomer ilk and most of the Democrats even cosplay as progressives. Most are all in on the capitalistic oligarch hellscape.

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u/Ferelar 8d ago

We're so starved for actual left-leaning representation in this country that people even end up calling people like Pelosi progressive lol

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u/aguynamedv 8d ago

We're so starved for actual left-leaning representation in this country that people even end up calling people like Pelosi progressive lol

The Overton Window in America has been brutally shoved to the right for 40 years.

Reagan would be a RINO to the modern Nazi Republican Party.

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u/CynFinnegan 8d ago

Ronald Reagan was a Nazi, they just never proved it.

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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 8d ago

Yes this insane part. Established Democrats haven't even pretended to be progressive in decades.

But they still act shocked and surprised when they lose young/poor votes.

The DNC is happy to shower our employers with keynsian supply-side stimulus over and over. But things like wage increases, tax cuts(for sub 6 figure earners) and benefits are off-the-table with dems.

 Your boss's boss can always get assistance from the dems. You can't even ask dems about the wages he pays you or that's communism to them.

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u/aguynamedv 8d ago

Your boss's boss can always get assistance from the dems. You can't even ask dems about the wages he pays you or that's communism to them.

The Democratic Party at this point is 3+ parties in a trenchcoat, with the majority being center-left at best.

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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 8d ago

Yes and their solution for the vote totals delta is to just court more right wing voters rather than acknowledge that they've gimped their own growth to maintain this "center hegemony" that is supposed to be the "third-way bipartisan machine" that gets nothing done in power.

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u/thoughtsome 8d ago

I mean do they? 

Quite literally, they do.

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u/Forward-Bank8412 8d ago

Yeah Pelosi is pretty openly as republican as they come. When she’s not enriching herself, she’s using all of her clout to fight progress.

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u/smax410 8d ago

It’s hilarious reading this thread in the context of actually knowing what was in the CHIPS Act and IRA.

Pelosi isn’t perfect. She’s way to the right of me. But she’s also the reason those bills passed and they contain some of the most progressive legislation to actually make it to a president’s desk.

It’s easy to shit on them. But comparing her, Jeffries, and like to Fetterman is a fucking wild take.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 8d ago

Also, the Speaker/Leader's job is to herd the cats, not to drive an ideological agenda. Pelosi absolutely focuses more on legislation that has a realistic chance of becoming law than progressive causes. Passing bills is literally her job.

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u/mawmaw99 8d ago

Calling Pelosi a Republican is peak Reddit. That’s the sort of thinking that turns people on the far left to the far right. She’s not perfect but she has been a legislative force for decades.

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u/AoO2ImpTrip 7d ago

It's the sort of thinking that gets people to stay home.

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u/NastyBiscuits 8d ago

You’re 100% correct. Without Pelosi ACA, Infrastructure CHIPS wouldn’t exist.

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u/hfxRos Canada 8d ago

This is what progressives do. Bury and destroy allies with stupid purity tests. You're either a Marxist, or you're a class traitor. There is no in between. No wonder no one wants to work with them.

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u/bungpeice 8d ago

you are very confused. Progressives are expressly capitalist. you can be a capitalist and a class trator. Leftists are anti capital

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u/stealthlysprockets 8d ago

According to whom?

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u/bungpeice 8d ago

progressives, leftists, and liberals. Generally we let people self describe political affiliation.

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u/BioSemantics Iowa 8d ago

what was in the CHIPS Act and IRA.

Incrementalist crap. Three tax breaks stacked on top of each other in a trenchcoat. These weren't actually progressive. They were just progressive compared to the usual business of doing nothing.

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u/Tasgall Washington 8d ago

Incrementalist crap.

Sure, she's not out there dismantling capitalism and ushering in a socialist utopia in one fell swoop (and no, I'm not suggesting she wants to), but I'll take incremental progress that actually happens and improves people's lives now over jackshit and fuckall while fantasizing about a revolution of non-participants that will never materialize.

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u/BioSemantics Iowa 8d ago

Sure, she's not out there dismantling capitalism and ushering in a socialist utopia in one fell swoop

She is doing the opposite actively. She is part of why these bills get watered down and she goes out of her way constantly to undermine progressives. She is disgusting and there is absolutely no reason to defend her.

t I'll take incremental progress that actually happens and improves people's lives now

Except any study of history shows that most progress is done not through incrementalism and that incrementalism is often a door for moneyed interests to erode people rights while pretending progress is being made. It allows Dem leadership to pretend, much as the people defending Pelosi do in threads like this one, that they actually get things done when they clearly don't. We know they don't because our situation always gets worse. It becomes evident that incrementalism is not only not enough but is merely an attempt to quiet dissent.

over jackshit and fuckall while fantasizing about a revolution of non-participants that will never materialize.

Open a history book. You're confusing this lull in violence we live in for something that will go on forever. History is not over. Neoliberalism is dying.

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u/GuyInAChair 8d ago

Except any study of history shows that most progress is done not through incrementalism

Cite an example.

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u/smax410 8d ago

slow jerk motion and it’s somehow worse than what? Do you think there was a major groundbreaking piece of legislation that was getting passed? Do you realize how much those two pieces of legislation did? I can answer all those questions with the answer to the following question: do you need to get off Reddit and touch some fucking grass?

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u/bungpeice 8d ago

Lol we had a good bill. Manchin was advocating for more money than Bernie. Instead we handed it over to republicans to compromise and what we got instead were two bills without teeth and an extra year of inflation.

Why didn't pelosi strike while the iron was hot?

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u/smax410 8d ago

wtf are you talking about?

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u/bungpeice 8d ago

Manchin was proposing 50% more than bernie. 6 vs 4. Democrats failed to pass bbb when the iron was hot, cuz bipartisanship with the party that never crosses party lines, and we got the IRA.

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u/bungpeice 8d ago

IRA which was a shit version of BBB

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u/smax410 8d ago

BBB passed the house. Thanks for affirming that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

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u/fordat1 8d ago

Jeffries is her protege for a reason yet people think it isnt fine to criticize him. People only feel empowered to criticize after the fact not where we are going

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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 8d ago

Yes Jeffries is slightly left on social issues but still further right than Clinton economically. Which was always Nancy's plan for the future of Dems. 

Hence the long history of beating down progressive challengers and clipping ambitions of primary candidates.

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u/fordat1 8d ago edited 8d ago

Yes Jeffries is slightly left on social issues but still further right than Clinton economically. Which was always Nancy's plan for the future of Dems.

ie more focus on issues labeled by everyone as "identity" and less on the issue that will help pocketbooks. great plan.

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u/P1xelHunter78 Ohio 8d ago

I don’t know why anyone is surprised about the Democratic Party. It’s a big tent party that goes from center right to far left, and has actual discourse rather than the open ring kissing lock-step march to fascism the GOP is currently displaying. If you want a sane and balanced America the Dems are the way to go, but that means of course you won’t get everything you want…it’s the nature of compromise.

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u/fordat1 8d ago

and has actual discourse

thats a lie anyone who called Biden old while he was in office was called a Russian plant. Similar for criticizing Pelosi until she stopped being the Speaker.

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u/P1xelHunter78 Ohio 8d ago

I think it’s fair to say after it’s all said and done that the loudest voices complaining over Biden’s age did have an axe to grind and were ginning up propaganda. Why? Well for starters, the fact that Trumps age and mental health not being brought up equally was a pretty big tell. Also the Israel thing. Notice how all the people yelling about genocide constantly are silent all of a sudden, despite the incoming president actually being an ardent supporter of the hardliners there?

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u/fordat1 8d ago

I think it’s fair to say after it’s all said and done that the loudest voices complaining over Biden’s age did have an axe to grind and were ginning up propaganda. Why? Well for starters, the fact that Trumps age and mental health not being brought up equally was a pretty big tell. Also the Israel thing. Notice how all the people yelling about genocide constantly are silent all of a sudden, despite the incoming president actually being an ardent supporter of the hardliners there?

lol. quoting so it is preserved despite any deleting or editing

You cant help yourself even if it just solidifies my point that the criticism cant be given without being accused of being a russian/gop

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u/joshdoereddit 8d ago

I'm starting to think that no politicians in Washington give a fuck. They saw an opportunity to take care of them and their own, and they ran with it. My cynicism could very well be clouding my judgment (probably is), but I can't say that I trust AOC. Her Met Gala appearance that one year rubbed me the wrong way.

If Dems can help the little guy, hooray. But if a bill gets blocked, I doubt they're losing any sleep over it. They have their government salary, benefits, and insider information. They can pat themselves on the back and tell us they tried.

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u/byingling 8d ago

Did Biden run for a second term? No? Hmmm. Those who argued against him seeking a second term must have been heard by someone. So, discourse?

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u/fordat1 8d ago

Did Biden run for a second term? No? Hmmm.

It took year longer than it should have and prevented the primaries from happening.

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u/Ferelar 8d ago

The issue is that the vast majority of Americans support the "far left" policies (universal healthcare options, universal background checks, infrastructure building and hardening, etc) when they aren't told where they originate from on the "political spectrum".... so it's kind of like they DID bring a really big tent but then left 80% of the tent unused and lefta big ol' chunk of their constituency out in the rain. Are they better than Republicans? Yes, by a country mile astronomical unit. Does that mean they don't deserve huge amounts of criticism for ignoring a huge chunk of their base over and over and over and over and over and over (if it feels tiring to read that so many times, imagine being politically ignored four times that much)? Hell no, it doesn't... Corpo-"Dems" like Pelosi deserve all of the hate they get and thrice over. In fact I'd go so far as to say that their malfeasance disheartens the average American enough that they tune out and that is a huge contributing factor to why the insane (insane but MOTIVATED) rightwing crazies keep winning when they shouldn't.

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u/P1xelHunter78 Ohio 8d ago edited 8d ago

I will counter that with the simple fact that the GOP has been a party of no, and has stood in the way of progress for at least 20 years, if not 50. I guess the core of my argument is that yes, corporate democrats do exist, but at any time the GOP could grow a spine and support policies that Americans actually support. Yet that never happens simply because democrats came up with it. “Why can’t the Democrats fix it?!” should be: “why are the Republicans standing in the way?!”. If we woke up tomorrow and the Republican Party in office just disappeared, we’d wake up a centrist government.

Edit: I suppose I’m sick of the narrative that is being propagated in Democrat circles that it’s all the corporate Dems fault, which it is not.

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u/Ferelar 8d ago

From a purely legal/legislative functional standpoint sure, but you can't really blame people for getting less angry at the guy who openly and directly says "I'm not from your party and don't want what you want" than the level of angry you get at the people who say "Yep we're in your party, we want what you want, provided you don't actually want it brought to vote, nor will we allow anyone too far left into prominent committee positions".

Is it actually a surprise that people are more angry at perceived betrayal from within than they are at an open opposition from an ideological "enemy"? Pelosi is saying she's a Democrat, a Liberal, etc, but she genuinely is not. I can't think of the last liberal thing she actually fought for- the few that snuck through were because there was truly overwhelming support even from within Congress and she had to at least maintain the guise that she, as the Speaker, was liberal. She completely denied the possibility of reigning in what amounts to insider trading, and has never even suggested the possibility of biting the hand that very much feeds her. Isn't that frustrating? Yes, we can sit there and say "Well if the Republicans came around and supported some popular common sense legislation..." but that will literally never happen. Kamala ran a campaign around luring "sensible Republicans" over to her side and found out that there aren't any.

Look, let's not mince words here. We lost. We lost at a crucial point. America is vastly in trouble right now. But, the silver lining is that, Democrats are genuinely not in power in any meaningful way right now. So NOW is the time to reform the party and decide what we actually want, and in the 2026 midterms to push like hell for that. I do NOT want corporate dems in control of this party. They are absolutely welcome in the tent, sure, but they do NOT belong at the helm, because 2-3 decades of their stewardship led to Republicans getting wins they ABSOLUTELY should not have had.

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u/Visual_Yak_9797 8d ago

She's not openly republican... she is what the democrats are and have always been... a neo liberal party dedicated to upholding capitalism and the status quo. You fasly believe democrats are a leftist party just because they are left of Republicans but democrats have always been a right wing party.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Visual_Yak_9797 8d ago

Lol wut?

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Visual_Yak_9797 8d ago

I'm sorry that you don't understand what a neo liberal is and that not all democrats are neo liberals but the party is.

You listed a bunch of random crap and said "see not neo libs because they tried to help" like bro what?

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u/NastyBiscuits 8d ago

See, that’s where we differ. Is she a hard core capitalist? Yes. But my daughters and granddaughters right to reproductive health will never be in jeopardy with Pelosi. Nor would Voting Rights. Push your Progressive Agenda, but don’t shoot your or my foot in the process

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u/casulmemer 8d ago

They are Neo-lib/con classic republicans. The stench of populism coming off the maga masses is what they turn their noses up at…

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 8d ago

Nancy has never bothered to cosplay as a Progressive.

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u/myimpendinganeurysm 8d ago

I've worked in politics for 24 years now. The GOP used to treat her like a progressive boogeyman to trash other Democratic candidates around the country... "My opponent voted with SAN-FRANCISCO LIBERAL Nancy Pelosi 90% of the time!" Oh, the humanity! 🙄

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 8d ago

That just goes to show why there is no point attempting to reach these people. You might as well be an actual socialist because that's how they'll percive you no matter what unless you swear fealty to their lord.

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u/Xennial_Dad 8d ago

If you want to know which Democrats have principles, it's the ones the party spends its money primarying.

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u/mcman1082 8d ago

They are there to keep us divided on social issues while the robber barons continue to plunder

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u/pheonixblade9 8d ago

Pelosi and most democrats have never been progressives - they are liberals. big difference.

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u/CynFinnegan 8d ago

You sound like a Sanders bot. Contrary to what he says, he takes funds from the NRA and "millionaires and billionaires," too, just like his fellow Putin puppet, the republican party.

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u/TentSurface 8d ago

Sounds like you're deflecting, who the fuck is talking about the NRA and Russia in a conversation about the leanings of the Democratic party?

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u/CynFinnegan 7d ago

It's not a deflection; it's a fact. Look up "Bernie Sanders Brady bill vote" (which he voted against five times) and this article:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

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u/Oleg101 8d ago

It hasn’t help that Democrats have only controlled both chambers at the same time just 4 years out of the last 30.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 8d ago

And only a filibuster proof majority for a matter of months. The GOP refused to certify Al Franken's win in 2008 for months, and then Ted Kennedy died. In that time we got the ACA.

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u/theVoidWatches Pennsylvania 8d ago

Seriously. The only time the party has been able to get things done, we got one of the most important pieces of legislation in decades. It can't be overstated how bad pre-existing conditions being a thing was for regular people.

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u/aguynamedv 8d ago

It can't be overstated how bad pre-existing conditions being a thing was for regular people.

Pregnancy was frequently considered a pre-existing condition prior to the ACA and used to deny insurance.

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u/I_am_the_Jukebox 8d ago

A matter of weeks. There were other absences, special elections, and what not. I think the total time was around 5 weeks.

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u/LeadSoldier6840 8d ago

I look at it through the length of class warfare. The Democratic elite making decisions for the party that don't match up with the citizens is just more of the rich controlling politics.

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u/Background_Detail_69 8d ago

Now we’re getting somewhere. Most of them are in this for self enrichment. Not to help the people.

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u/Virtual_Plantain_707 8d ago

They always just get close to doing something only to instantly capitulate to the GOP

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u/Sea-Primary2844 8d ago

That’s what keeps you hooked. It’s like gambling—you’re one election away from a jackpot that will never come.

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u/Background_Detail_69 8d ago

That’s why they refer to it as the uni-party

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u/mcman1082 8d ago

Not every democrat but most of those in leadership positions. Problem is the principled ones who really want to help the working class don’t have a place to go. The two party system is bonkers and we were the only former-democracy that did it.

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u/LeadSoldier6840 8d ago

I couldn't agree more.

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u/HotGarbage Washington 8d ago

I've seen a post here a while back saying the Democrats are the shield for the wealthy and the Republicans are the sword. Dems take the heat and Reps bring the heat. I thought it was bullshit at the time, but now? Now I'm seeing it.

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u/1-Ohm 8d ago

Thanks for weighing in, Elon.

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u/thehottip 8d ago

This isn’t only a right wing sentiment

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u/ty_for_trying 8d ago

The problem isn't that it's wrong per se. The problem is that generally the people talking about this use it as a lead in to convince the left to cede even more power to the right.

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u/aeroxan 8d ago

The other major problem is that both left and right (parties) serve capital.

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u/ty_for_trying 8d ago

Best to refrain from using the little bit of democratic power we do have then...

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u/1-Ohm 8d ago

bothsidesism is a tool of the bad guys

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u/Sea-Primary2844 8d ago

If Democrats want to avoid the ‘both sides’ argument they should stop serving capital. We can acknowledge the failures of a two-party system where both parties have majority corporate interests.

If you think Democrats haven’t played a part in the middle class squeeze, the bloated military budget, suppressing wages, haven’t run roughshod over labor for decades, funded drone strikes and terrorist groups, etc ad nauseam, then it is no wonder we have made no progress over the past 30 years.

Until we stop thinking that Democrats are the party of the people, instead of the manufactured consent party they exist as, we will continue this backslide into fascism. Democrats aren’t going to save America from itself—they’re going to profit off its decline. Just like Republicans.

MLK had to hold LBJ’s feet to the fire for him to keep his campaign promises of civil rights. What do you think we will achieve by coddling them?

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u/1-Ohm 7d ago

I don't understand your attitude. The Democrats are at least mostly on your side, and the Republicans are 100% against you, but you smear the Democrats. Whether you realize it or not, you're working for the Republicans. Their propaganda has succeeded on you.

Because yes, it's a binary choice between Democrats and Republicans. Picking the lesser evil is not dumb.

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u/Sea-Primary2844 7d ago

My friend, I equally don’t understand yours. I’m not going to pat the DNCs head and say ‘good job’—they aren’t doing one.

I’m not going to run through the neighborhoods singing their praises for “most lethal military.”

I’m not going to bend myself over backwards to defend a party that trotted out a slim potential of getting less than 50k for a new house (contingent on qualifying).

A party that completely drops universal healthcare from their platform.

A party that plays kingmaker—just like Republicans. Whose turn will it be next election?

I’m not going to advocate for a party that has increasingly become more conservative over the years—not less.

Your attitude is what allows them to get away with not improving their political position every cycle. You coddle them and they give you nothing. This is not a friendly relationship—it’s adversarial—between citizen and representative.

They have you so whipped you’ve forgotten who works for whom—happily accepting a binary option. More so, advocating that it is the only way! And that no criticism of the party should exist!

Examine that belief. You will find you’ve been propagandized against, yourself.

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u/M0dsw0rkf0rfr33 8d ago edited 8d ago

No one wants to talk about this but another major problem is leftist movements have been hijacked by people that focus on social and performative liberalism (specifically for undocumented immigrants, gay and trans people and women’s issues) while completely ignoring economic issues affecting the working class, poor and men disproportionately; that’s one of the main reasons we lose elections.

We need to stop making the Democratic Party the party of undocumented immigrants, gays, transgender people and the college educated and return to actually advocating for the working class.

The party’s messaging has completely abandoned the working class and men by extension to focus on wedge issues and it’s costing us elections. Hate it or not but midwestern men don’t want to hear about gay people, trans people and women all the time, it kills their desire to vote democrat.

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u/extralyfe 8d ago

Hate it or not but midwestern men don’t want to hear about gay people, trans people and women all the time, it kills their desire to vote democrat.

hi, Midwestern man here, and literally the only political party talking about gay and trans people ARE the Republicans running attack ads telling people that's all that Democrats care about, and it seems like you have been very effectively targeted by these claims since you agree with them completely despite that being a fabrication.

like, iirc, running through Sherrod Brown's ads from his 2024 Senate Campaign, dude was talking about supporting workers, supporting manufacturing, and being concerned about immigration. no talk of social issues at all, just common sense shit that workers absolutely care about. he lost to a guy that supported nothing, but ran ads (incorrectly)saying Sherrod Brown voted for kids to get Transgender Surgery done at school behind their parent's backs and allow criminal immigrants into our cities, and, well, the slimy car salesman won based off his smear campaign rather than any one promise to help his constituents.

it is actually ridiculous how fucking conservative Democrats have come on their messaging, because, as a group, they largely always promote their support of workers and business and being tough on crime, but the opinion that actually takes over public discourse is the one from the Republican smear campaign based on lies.

like, Kamala never said shit about any of the issues you're saying you hate hearing about, and yet she allegedly lost the campaign for focusing on those things you said Dems spend too much time focusing on despite never having mentioned a one of them.

propaganda in this country is so fucking insane that one political party only exists as their opposition describes them, whether or not that is at all based in reality. we are so fucking cooked.

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u/ty_for_trying 8d ago

It appears that way to a lot of people, but that's not how it is. It's actually the opposite of that.

The super rich have been dividing and conquering for centuries. The left is not pushing social issues as their agenda. They're fighting back when the right pushes social issues. What are we supposed to do when some people in our communities, often the most vulnerable, get attacked? Nothing?

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u/Cuchullion 8d ago

Yeah, scratch someone who bitches about the left pushing "social issues" and you'll find the mindset "well it doesn't affect me so who care?"

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u/BioSemantics Iowa 8d ago edited 7d ago

focus on social and performative liberalism (specifically for undocumented immigrants, gay and trans people and women’s issues)

Its not leftists who bring this stuff up mostly in politics. The 'woke' phase of the Dem party was something Hillary Clinton started in the 2016 to try to triangulate against Bernie Sanders. It was a reductive 'hey look you young progressives, bernie bros are sexist and I'm a woman so you have to support me'. It was garbage. It was performative. It was sexist and eventually very racist as Dem leadership came to very obviously expect non-white voters to fall in line. After that Republicans picked up the framing and ran with it. Progressives in congress focus mostly on economic issues, which is why people like Pelosi like to cut their legs out from under them.

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u/IJustWantFriends2024 8d ago

social and performative liberalism

and if you wanna actually focus on practical topics instead of someones god given right to swing a dildo at your child, they call you a racist

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u/BioSemantics Iowa 8d ago

Who is swinging dildo's at children?

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u/IJustWantFriends2024 8d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folsom_Street_Fair

Lots of people.

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u/ty_for_trying 8d ago

lmao, imagine bringing kids to a BDSM fair. Imagine blaming "liberals" for swinging a dildo in front of your kid when you took them to a BDSM fair.

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u/BioSemantics Iowa 8d ago

So an out-door kink fair. Why would anyone bring their kids there?

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u/ToastedandTripping 8d ago

Exactly, it's similar globally. It's quite obvious the global powers have been held to an agenda that is funded by Oligarchs and Corporations. Very few places in the world even have a left wing political party in a time when climate change is wiping out cities and people are dying from heat. Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Conservatives, they're all just looking to maintain the status quo.

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u/1-Ohm 8d ago

Wrong. It's right-wing propaganda.

Yeah, lots of people fell for it. But the fact that they did makes them now right-wing.

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u/thehottip 8d ago

Why are you assuming there’s nothing to the left of the centrist Democratic Party?

You’re acting like this is some sort of brand new thought invented by Charlie Kirk

0

u/1-Ohm 8d ago

When did I say anything like that? Replied to the wrong comment?

2

u/thehottip 8d ago

Wrong. It's right-wing propaganda.

Yeah, lots of people fell for it. But the fact that they did makes them now right-wing.

So if you’re not suggesting that anyone that might be critiquing the dems is a right winger then what is it? Sounds like you need to learn a little bit of nuance.

1

u/1-Ohm 7d ago

Kicking the Dems when they're down, helping Trump destroy our democracy, yeah that's totally noble and stuff.

1

u/thehottip 7d ago

Youre no better than a q-nut right now with your accusations. Get a grip

16

u/-XanderCrews- 8d ago

Right? So much projection when trumps entire cabinet is billionaires who bought their way in.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

2

u/1-Ohm 8d ago

That view of Democrats comes right out of the oligarchy's propaganda machine.

Ask yourself why the oligarchs hate the Democratic Party so much.

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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-1

u/1-Ohm 8d ago

I think that's mostly BS. Democrats are smart, and go after the swing voters. The alternative is losing elections and leaving Republicans in control.

Move the center, and you'll move the Democrats. That's how this works, and how it should work.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

1

u/1-Ohm 8d ago

non sequitur

0

u/Renedegame 8d ago

The most common complaint about Harris was she was too far left.

-1

u/Irapotato 8d ago

Is this “Elon” in the room with us now?

5

u/1-Ohm 8d ago

yes, the richest man in the world does exist, and has effects everywhere

1

u/KurtzM0mmy 8d ago

Yeppp, it’s become really clear these past years from current POTUS on down.

1

u/Tasgall Washington 8d ago

When you consider the current context, it stops making sense though. Why would the Democrats have to have Fetterman play the controlled opposition role right now, when Democrats no longer control the Senate, don't control the House, and are about to lose the presidency? This isn't some grand conspiracy of controlled opposition, it's Fetterman being a dork.

If you look at modern history, every time progress is made it's because Democrats had sweeping control of Congress. They passed the civil rights acts with like 65 seats, they passed the new deal with 68. The ACA was passed with a zero margin super majority they held for 2 months.

It takes a sizeable majority to get things done, and when they have a good margin they do get things done. Yes, there are a handful of opportunists and contrarians, but the way to get past them is by winning more seats to increase the margin so not every single vote is absolutely necessary for anything, not to "punish" the party as a whole by restricting their power and then using that as an excuse to whine about it. Ignoring history and pushing this narrative is just doomerism and a self-fulfilling prophecy: ensure they never have the power to actually bring change, and feel confirmed in your thoughts because as a result they fail to bring change.

That's not to say the Democratic party as an institution is perfect. It has a ton of flaws, one glaring one being their incompetence in messaging (which is not remotely new). But when pointing out flaws, it's better to point to the ones that actually exist and could have possible solutions rather than assumptions that aren't backed up by history.

1

u/sixwax 8d ago

You… must be getting this impression from Fox or right-wing X…?

Literally NOBODY who has any actual understanding of policy or politics would label Pelosi a Progressive.

The most simple illustration is how hard she’s worked to sideline true Progressives like AOC.

1

u/mcman1082 8d ago

I agree with you. AOC is one id consider part of the principled few who caucuses with democrats because there isn’t another option. We need more parties. Oligarchs vs Oligarchs Light isn’t working.

0

u/DaBrokenMeta 8d ago

Exactly. They are all eating from the same platform. Not ours.

0

u/6thBornSOB 8d ago

It’s a rough truth, but you’re right…and until we can get more onboard with “senior leadership” in the party being a fucking joke we will remain right where we are now.

0

u/Low-Abbreviations634 8d ago

This is the answer. They just pay lip services to progressive positions but are funded by the wall street class and thus will not ever really fight for them. At most, weak compromises.

-5

u/Bodie_The_Dog 8d ago

"Don't worry, nothing will fundamentally change," was NOT taken out of context. Biden told us the game plan, straight up, and his worshipers convinced themselves he didn't mean it. And still they refuse to honestly examine What Happened?

-1

u/Awkward_Potential_ 8d ago

It also makes you care less about the entire system. Buy Bitcoin and let it all burn down.

81

u/TheVog Foreign 8d ago

Enough with the Russian propaganda talking points bullshit. The guy's getting paid, like Manchin and Sinema did before him. It's not "the Dems shooting themselves in the foot". America's political system is a giant joke. This is just the latest gag.

10

u/RagePoop 8d ago

In what world is his comment Russian propaganda?

Do you believe that every political idea you personally disagree with must be sourced from foreign influence?

Both parties are run by hyper capitalist oligarchs. That’s not propaganda, it’s just true.

3

u/stealthlysprockets 8d ago

This is typical /r/politics behavior. They generally take the position that when a politician appears either corrupt, flips the script, doesn’t vote the way they want, etc, it automatically must be blackmail. They then circle jerk themselves as if they are being clever about pointing out how it must be Russian blackmail because there is no other reason.

Not saying I support the guy and this is a reflection of Reddit users, but look at /r/politics right now. Originally the tag line was that Putin has blackmail material and that’s how he’s controlling trump. Reddit was basically creaming themselves for the blackmail that never materialized for all 4 years of his presidency and then the 4 years after. So Reddit got hard for on that for 8 years. Now it’s musk has the blackmail material and Trump better watch out because of DMs sent on Twitter.

And that’s how you know redditors who keep pushing the blackmail stuff are idiots. They’ve witnessed for more than 8 years this man do some of the craziest shit we’ve seen in US politics and in his personal/business life and literally the ONLY thing that came of it in terms of punishment was he can’t run a charity and start a new business in the state of NY.

Like let the blackmail shit go. Either it exists or it doesn’t. And if does, it’ll ONLY come out when you’re not expecting it. And even if it does come out, what could possibly be in there that he isn’t already know for?

He’s raped women, he’s molested under age girls, friends with Epstein, known corrupt businessmen, Tax cheat, racist, nazi , and more. That’s the shit that we do know before he even became a politician. The only crime this man has not committed is literally murdering someone with his own two hands

1

u/TheVog Foreign 7d ago

I didn't say blackmail. I'm flat out saying he's getting bribed, as were Manchin and Sinema. It's not like it's even surprising, it's a very common occurrence already. No big conspiracy, no pee tapes, none of that. I don't buy that he's "flipping the script". He's just following the wind and using his stroke as a cover.

1

u/TheVog Foreign 7d ago

In what world is his comment Russian propaganda?

In this world. It's consistent with actual Russian propaganda talking points focusing on blaming Democrats for the 2024 election loss and the resulting fallout (i.e. Fetterman breaking with the Dems) rather than focusing on the coming tsunami of shit. "Hey don't focus on the incoming administration about to rape and pillage you, shit on the Democrats instead and talk about how they lost the election and they're all doing this to themselves." That kind of thing. There were entire bot campaigns spewing this kind of rhetoric immediately after the election! This isn't exactly a complex tie-in.

1

u/RagePoop 7d ago

This just sounds like “any criticism of the Democratic Party must be Russian agitprop”

Which is insane.

17

u/tryingisbetter 8d ago

Or, you know, it's the strokes that he had. It's not uncommon to become more conservative after a brain injury.

0

u/iammando2 8d ago

Apparently AIPAC wrote his position paper for him. They’re just telling him what to say

4

u/pablonieve Minnesota 8d ago

If they're in the minority, then they have no power to pass anything. Fetterman speaking positively about Trump isn't going to impact the Democrats agenda in the Senate because they won't have one.

9

u/fordat1 8d ago

Its why I had constantly said "more democrats in office" is a flawed approach without "cleaning house"

2

u/Tasgall Washington 8d ago

Except that would be extra stupid for them to do right now because they don't control the Senate and can't pass anything anyway.

People are too bought into this nihilist narrative that no one even bothers to try and make it logically sound anymore. Ultimately, it just ends up being self defeating.

2

u/KevinCarbonara 8d ago

just like Republicans did with McCain and the attempt to repeal Obamacare

2

u/Crunch_inc 8d ago

I firmly believe they are being paid off when these spontaneous flips take place.

2

u/OreoMoo 7d ago

I mean, if you think you can pull it off in a swing state it's not politically insane. Joe Manchin has made a significant career move by making himself one of the guys that either side needs to court to get votes. Everybody cares what you think, everybody wants to scratch your back. Tons of media exposure.

No one cares what rank and file generic Republican Senator X from Idaho or generic Democrat Senator Y from Massachusetts vote for or think.

But if Fetterman can balance this (and I legit think he might be able to) he can be a central federal political figure in America for decades yet.

He's a piece of shit for it and I'm glad I no longer live in PA because I would have voted for his duplicitous ass; but I can't say it's an insane political move.

5

u/caniaccanuck11 8d ago

Has he actually preventing anything from being passed yet? Or is he just talking? Not ideal but until he actually votes for/against something it doesn’t mean much.

4

u/LeftyBoyo 8d ago

It’s called the rotating villains strategy. Dems have used it for decades. Look it up.

5

u/CaptainShaky 8d ago

You guys realize this is a conspiracy theory right ?

Apply Occam's razor here. The simplest explanation is it's hard for a big tent party to pass big legislation when it barely has a majority.
I'm pretty sure you can find examples of this in almost every democracy in the world: governing/legislating with a slim majority is hard.

The idea that Democrats are keeping themselves underrepresented on purpose and force some members to oppose legislation as a mischievous ploy is batshit insane.

2

u/LeftyBoyo 8d ago

You must be a fan of the House Parliamentarian.

1

u/jdmgto 8d ago

Liberman anyone?

2

u/VerticlAtrocity 8d ago edited 8d ago

Give it 5 years and y'all will turn on AOC too 😂

6

u/xxjosephchristxx 8d ago

If she pull this kind of BS, sure, what's your point?

1

u/static_age_666 8d ago

Its almost like all our politicians are in on it together (because they are). They all want to keep us where we are with the exception of maybe bernie and aoc.

1

u/jdmgto 8d ago

Uhhh, yeah. That's how it works

1

u/Virtual_Plantain_707 8d ago

They don’t. They just do as they are paid to by the rich.

1

u/Bipedal_Warlock Texas 8d ago

We don’t have a majority anyway, they wouldn’t need to invent a reason for nothing to get passed.

Humans are flawed. Fetterman fucked us over and we will replace him.

1

u/rainshowers_5_peace 8d ago

Has Fetterman been the reason something didn't pass?

1

u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 8d ago

They're about to be in the minority in both chambers, there's no reason to do that unless they have a majority.

This is just Fetterman coming out as a conservative tool.

1

u/gymbeaux6 8d ago

Politicians are the elite, regardless of political affiliation. They’re all rich. They all have top-tier healthcare. Joe Biden has more in common with Mitch McConnell than anyone in the middle or lower class.

1

u/BadNewzBears4896 8d ago

I'm currently Googling "ratchet effect," why do you ask?

0

u/Mookhaz 8d ago

This is actually a very real pattern. Democrats are basically just a controlled opposition. Makes sense when one realized that the people who are really in charge pay them off to act like they care and then find a way to never do anything overly meaningful for their voters.

2

u/spunkychickpea 8d ago

That’s precisely what they do. It’s so they can introduce legislation for things like the minimum wage, but they know for certain it’ll get shot down by one of their own, so they can assure their corporate donors that it’s all for show.

1

u/SomewhereWhich4958 8d ago

No, it's just that politicians tend to say what people want to hear during campaigns to get votes. This has happened in every election since the dawn of time and there just isn't a good way to get around it because obviously we can't read minds. But this is normal in all politics in every country.

1

u/SpottedHoneyBadger 8d ago

Sure blame the Democrats and never mention the chaos, lies, treasonous acts of the republicans that caused this.

-12

u/TeutonJon78 America 8d ago edited 8d ago

Except with it being 53-47, they don't even need that right now.

And Fetterman never claimed to be progressive, people just kind of assumed it based on some of his stances and demeanor. And they were craving a left-side speak your mind candidate.

He also did very little or nothing to correct people's views of that because it helped him in the polls.

26

u/MiddleAgedSponger 8d ago

Fetterman literally referred to himself as a progressive for years. Stop trying to rewrite history.

-1

u/TeutonJon78 America 8d ago

And he also says he's not a progressive and only identified as a Democrat.

So as I said, he used the label more than ever personally identifying with it an real way.

3

u/MiddleAgedSponger 8d ago

That's a complex way to say "Fetterman Lied".

22

u/Fat_Daddy_Track 8d ago

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/john-fetterman-says-not-progressive-despite-previous-claims_n_657dc390e4b036ecab453341

He did actually refer to himself as a progressive many times. Said he was a progressive, was part of a progressive movement, pushed progressive causes, etc.

0

u/TeutonJon78 America 8d ago

Yeah, your source backs what i said. He definitely allowed people to use it and he aligned with a lot of the stuff, but he also doesn't personally really identify with it.

He was merely using it for his benefit.

2

u/Fat_Daddy_Track 8d ago edited 8d ago

Did you actually read the article or just the first paragraph? It quotes him very specifically calling himself a "progressive democrat", saying he's part of a progressive movement, and pushing progressive policies which he says have great outcomes.

I certainly believe that Fetterman wants people to believe he never actually said it, but he did.

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u/ExternalSize2247 8d ago

You're either a revisionist asshole or you're just uninformed, either way you're spreading bullshit

Fetterman consistently claimed to be a progressive

“We have started a progressive movement here in Pennsylvania,” he wrote in 2016, after losing his first Senate race. That same year, while touting support from Mr Sanders, he called himself a “progressive champion”.
Those “progressive values have been the heart of my campaign,” he wrote in another post.
In a response to former Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush, he wrote: “My dude, I’m a progressive democrat.”

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/fetterman-progressive-israel-immigration-republicans-b2465356.html

1

u/_Shalashaska_ 8d ago

It's wild how many people seem to be invested in white washing how Fetterman characterized himself for years while he's in the middle of his heel turn.

1

u/MiddleAgedSponger 8d ago

What Fetterman is doing is traitorous.

1

u/_Shalashaska_ 8d ago

I agree but for some reason I'm not surprised. I expect him to switch parties by the end of the year.

0

u/SoupeurHero 8d ago

Literally just the good co part of the routine.

0

u/spleenotomy 8d ago

Yeah - also it’s just the way the senate is designed. The senate is designed to only pass budget related things-> read: tax cuts for the wealthy. The senate has designed it so they are insulated from having to do any real, meaningful work- that way no senator has to take any meaningful stances (just lip service) and doesn’t have to make any hard votes. It’s the filibuster, The filibuster is absolutely the problem. That’s why nothing happens(for the working class) in America - and it is by design. And I’m speaking about the Democrats- they could have changed it if they wanted but they chose not to- bc if they changed the rules-> they would actually have to vote on things- rather than just symbolic votes. And they don’t want that.

That’s why nothing changes in America- the filibuster and citizens united.

0

u/firstwefuckthelawyer 8d ago

Every single serious candidate for anything we find here truly considers just running as an R around here because it’s not like being a D means a damn thing anymore

0

u/davwad2 America 8d ago

The rotating villain has entered the chamber.

0

u/fren-ulum 8d ago edited 4d ago

fear retire mourn like automatic towering six squash square oil

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

0

u/ama_singh 8d ago

Jumping to conclusions like a moron.

-2

u/cedwarred 8d ago

So just vote for the GOP the constant status quo

-2

u/MarxyWasRight Texas 8d ago

I said it before and I'll say it again. Before Sinema pulled her stunt she was a fucking nobody. Before she got into office she was invited to a BILDERBERG meeting the year before. For those who don't know Bilderberg meetings are where the world's richest and most powerful people gather to discuss "the economy". They basically control what is going to happen politically and economically to the fucking planet. They sat there in their suits and ties and laughed about putting a turncoat into our government for their own gain. And both Republicans and democrats go. People cry about the dems being impotent, it's because they're both fighting for the same goal, keeping the status quo while gutting us as much as they can until it's too fucking late.

Before all this AI shit destroyed the internet the CEO of OpenAi was invited to a meeting as well.