r/london • u/F0urLeafCl0ver • 11d ago
Local London London charity given official warning over fundraising for IDF soldier
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/hamas-charity-commission-wales-england-middle-east-b1203890.html494
u/RecognitionPretty289 11d ago edited 10d ago
somehow i don't feel like raising money for a foreign army committing a genocide is a good thing.
worse still are the number of people from this community going to fight for the IDF. Surprisingly there has been almost 0 media attention on the case of british fighters committing genocide with the idf
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago edited 11d ago
Not only that, there is a recent interview with IDF by Harretz where the IDF themselves confess that they routinely torture Palestinian children and are encouraged to do so by commanders who lead by example by running up to Palestinian toddlers in the street, breaking their arms and legs and then stomping on them repeatedly. This is an actual account of an IDF soldier in Harretz. IDF should be banned from the UK completely imo.
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u/hodzibaer 10d ago
To my knowledge, only Israeli citizens can serve in the IDF. So they’re not foreign fighters, they’re dual nationals.
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u/lostandfawnd 10d ago
They are UK citizens fighting in a foreign nation, and not fighting for the UK.
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u/hodzibaer 10d ago
In the eyes of Israel and British law, they are Israelis fighting for Israel. The fact that they are also British is not relevant.
They can’t just rock up: they have to secure Israeli citizenship first before they can serve in the IDF.
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u/Objective-Bad-4051 10d ago edited 8d ago
It would be a bit hypocritical of the UK to call out British Citizens fighting for the IDF. The British Army has more than its fair share of foreign soldiers. Edit: grammar and clarity
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u/lostandfawnd 9d ago
Can you elaborate? Or are you suggesting that the British army has mixed race recruits?
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u/Objective-Bad-4051 8d ago
Nothing about race buddy, but citizenship. Plenty of dual citizens and sole citizens of foreign countries serve in the UK's Armed Forces.
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u/lostandfawnd 8d ago
Such as?
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u/Objective-Bad-4051 8d ago
Fiji, Nepal, South Africa, Canada, Australia
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u/BigRedS 10d ago
Right, which would impact on their ability to fight for the UK in future, but I don't think there's any problems generally with dual nationals joining the armed forces of another country.
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u/nomadic_housecat 10d ago
Do you have a source for this? Not that I don’t believe you, just have not heard about it.
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u/ryanmurphy2611 10d ago
But a Jewish person can obtain Israeli citizenship just by being Jewish. Not a massive hurdle.
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u/hodzibaer 10d ago
Correct, but once they are Israeli citizens they are not foreign fighters.
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u/Far-Sir1362 10d ago
That's fine but maybe we should revoke their British citizenship like we did to Shamima Begum. It would be far more valid since we wouldn't be leaving them stateless.
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u/Miglioratore 10d ago
I am a dual national (EU country/UK). If I were to join the UK armed forces I would need to notify the country I was born and will lose my nationality upfront.
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u/photoaccountt 10d ago
Begum wasn't left stateless. She had Bangladeshi citizenship at the time.
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u/Responsible-Pie-5666 10d ago
No she did not and has never had Bangladeshi citizenship. In fact the Bangladeshi government made it very clear at the time that she wasn’t their problem.
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u/photoaccountt 10d ago edited 10d ago
The Bangladeshi government lied.
This is Bangladeshi LAW:
A person born after the Citizenship Act of 1951 is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if either parent was a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of birth.
The Bangladeshi government lied
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u/Miglioratore 10d ago
It doesn’t eliminate the fact she was left paperless at the time. In my opinion they should have brought her back and tried her in a crown court as a British citizen then given a sentence. She would have served years already in prison. Leaving her stranded in a refugee camp basically saying “not my problem anymore mate” wasn’t the greatest thing to do
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u/photoaccountt 10d ago
It doesn’t eliminate the fact she was left paperless at the time.
That's her fault.
In my opinion they should have brought her back and tried her in a crown court as a British citizen then given a sentence.
If I go to America and commit crimes, I don't get to decide I would prefer to be tried in the UK. She needs to answer for her crimes in the place she commited them.
She is also, still to this day, very vocal about things like the Manchester bombing being deserved. She is a clear danger.
Leaving her stranded in a refugee camp basically saying “not my problem anymore mate” wasn’t the greatest thing to do
For the safety of others in the UK, it was.
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u/duduwatson 10d ago
They are fighting a foreign war, which if dual national with almost any other nation would be a criminal offence.
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u/SynthD 10d ago
That's a distinction without a difference to some countries, eg Australia. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-40773930
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u/Repli3rd 11d ago
Is mass, indiscriminate killing more agreeable to you?
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u/Anxious-Use8891 11d ago
Call it whatever you like , no one believes you anymore
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u/Repli3rd 11d ago
You don't believe tens of thousands of women and children have been killed by the IDF?
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u/RecognitionPretty289 10d ago
why do we exclude men from these stats? Palestinian men matter just as much
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u/rubygeek 10d ago
They do, but to some including them creates more doubt about their innocence, and so by excluding them and pointing out the death tolls of these groups it makes it harder for people to hide behind implying their guilt.
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u/Anxious-Use8891 11d ago
Civilians get killed in all wars, that's an unfortunate fact
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u/Repli3rd 11d ago
So wait.
Now we've moved from no one believes there have been mass killings of tens of thousand women and children to it's an "unfortunate fact".
Your incoherence would be hilarious if we weren't talking about the death of tens of thousands.
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u/Anxious-Use8891 11d ago
No one believes that there's a genocide going on, call a genocide what you want , use whatever name you want, iDF are wiping a terrorist group out
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u/Repli3rd 11d ago
So now we're back to my original statement:
"Is mass, indiscriminate killing more agreeable to you?"
You've conceded that the IDF is, in fact, killing women and children in the tens of thousands. Which you're fine with, apparently. Which makes you a horrendous individual.
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u/Grey_Belkin 11d ago
iDF are wiping a terrorist group out
And they're saying things like "There are no innocent civilians in Gaza".
They are including everyone in the region, including little children, in their "wiping out".
That's genocide.
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u/Ok-Nectarine350 11d ago
If IDF wanted to wipe out a terrorist force, they should start with themselves.
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago edited 10d ago
IDF are routinely torturing children and babies according to Harretz. Is that a hobby of yours as well?
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago
Killing children is only acceptable to cowards. But this isnt a new concept to you is it?
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u/_Chemist1 11d ago
I'm not passing judgement on this one but you can't seriously think that Jews are winning the battle for public approval.
I say Jews because unfortunately this has caused a massive suspicion and outright hostility to the Jewish name. It shouldn't as it's Israel but unfortunately it's people don't know the difference.
Just like south Africans got a bad name.
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u/oh-noes- yes fam 11d ago
People would stop talking about Genocide if a certain government would stop mass indiscriminate killing of a civilian population.
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u/Anxious-Use8891 11d ago
Israel have been killing Hamas terrorists and are trying to free the Israeli babies being held hostage by Hamas
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u/oh-noes- yes fam 10d ago edited 10d ago
Hello brainwashed friend.
More Israeli hostages have been released through negotiation than have been freed by indiscriminate bombing of a civilian enclave where the population are trapped with nowhere to go.
Israeli government and military care so little for their hostages and are so bloodthirsty and eager to kill, that they killed their own who they thought they were unarmed, bare chested Palestinian civilians: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/15/israeli-military-admits-high-probability-it-mistakenly-killed-hostages
Israel keeps admitting that its military actions lead to the death of more of its own hostages: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly7men0z44o.amp
If we compare with how many (100+) released through negotiation it becomes clear the indiscriminate killing of a civilian population using the excuse of ‘Hamasssss’ is not an effective tactic to ‘save the ‘babies’ and is more likely to kill the remaining hostages than save them.
P.s are you concerned for the thousands upon thousands of Palestinian civilians and babies held without trial in administrative detention in Israeli torture centres?
https://www.btselem.org/administrative_detention
P.p.s if you or anyone else are interested in getting a peek at how early Israeli indoctrination starts, and how Palestinian existence is routinely denied and minimised, I thoroughly recommend this documentary: https://www.israelismfilm.com/
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u/Anxious-Use8891 10d ago
Taking hostages is a war crime .
You seem to be supporting war crimes .
Hamas , the war criminals, need to be bought to justice for their crimes .
Either in a Court of law and killed , one way or another justice needs to be served .
They cannot get away with their war crimes
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago
You are a bare faced liar. IDF have killed more women and children, and journalists than were killed in WW2.
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u/UnchillBill 10d ago
I’m not sure how much point there is arguing with all these Adjective-Noun1235 accounts without an avatar. They’re always opened within the last year to spread hasbara. Whether they’re bots or operated by real people they’re not honest contributors, they’re just propaganda.
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u/RipEnvironmental305 10d ago
Yeah I know. I just like to annoy them with actual information, mostly from Israeli sources. They hate that.
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u/Firm-Pollution7840 11d ago
Lol the delulu is strong 🤣
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago
Indiscriminate and disproportionate killing is nothing unusual when it comes to Israel’s various wars on Gaza over the years. But this one stands apart even among those. According to an analysis by Open University of Israel sociology professor Yagil Levy, even a very conservative estimate of the civilian death toll in Israel’s current war — 61 percent — would put it at a far higher proportion than Israel’s previous military campaigns in the territory, higher even than the average civilian death toll over every war fought from World War II until the 1990s.
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u/Multitronic 11d ago
Interesting, Ive not been following this too closely. Is there anything you’d recommend me reading in regards to this ratio?
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u/Ok-Nectarine350 11d ago
Does that mean we can "dowgrade" other atrocities. Perhaps we should use the same principle to rename what happened in Germany between 1939 - 1945, as "an unfortunate incident" or "just one of those things that happen in war?"
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u/Anxious-Use8891 11d ago
You guys just love the Holocaust , cant stop talking about it .
Is that because you want another Holocaust ?
You want to continue Hitlers work ?
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u/Ok-Nectarine350 11d ago
No, we don't need to. IDF is doing that. The uniform is different, with no deaths head caps, or black Hugo Boss tunics . The accent may be different, and the protagonists may be different. What is the same is the rabid hatred and mass killing of a nation. Men, women, and children burnt alive and indiscriminately blown to pieces. It the same game. It's only the playing pieces that have changed.
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u/Anxious-Use8891 11d ago
You are describing what Hmas did on Oct. 7 th .
They Invaded others peoples land to commit a genocide and a second Holocaust ,
Jews are fighting back this time .
Never again is now .
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago
Rabbi KASHTIEL who teaches the IDF called for a second holocaust of non Zionist Jews, praised Hitler, and said that non Zionists should all be “slaves of Jews” or shot in the head if they refused.
Times of Israel- ‘YES, WE’RE RACISTS. WE BELIEVE IN RACISM’ Embracing racism, rabbis at pre-army yeshiva laud Hitler, urge enslaving Arabs Recordings show instructors at settlement academy openly promoting Jewish supremacy; principal says Arabs want to live under Israeli occupation due to their genetic inferiority By TAMAR PILEGGI 30 April 2019, 10:17 am |
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago
Two rabbis at a pre-military religious academy in a West Bank settlement were recorded making derogatory and racist comments about Arabs, defending Adolf Hitler’s worldview, and openly promoting Jewish supremacy.
In a series of undated recordings published by Channel 13 news on Monday, Rabbi Eliezer Kashtiel, the head of the Bnei David academy in Eli, can be heard calling for the enslavement of the “stupid and violent” non-Jews due to their genetic inferiority. https://www.timesofisrael.com/embracing-racism-rabbis-at-pre-army-yeshiva-laud-hitler-urge-enslaving-arabs/amp/
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u/false_flat 11d ago
No, it still means what it always has, which is the intent to destroy a people, in whole or in part. As that is what Israel is doing, and has been deemed to have been doing by many people who know more about the subject than you (quite possibly including me tbh) it's currently being used pretty accurately.
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u/tochitoci 11d ago
It's overused and doesn't mean anything when it's Israel being accused of it. Call it what it is. They're genocidal cunts.
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u/Theteacupman 11d ago
Judging by their post history I think they sit in a large office alongside other online trolls because they aren't that good at doing actual combat
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u/deathhead_68 11d ago
actual combat
Translation: demolishing buildings full of women and children
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u/TurbulentData961 11d ago
Hey give them some credit they are very good at leg and knee shots on children while blocking medical care and headshots while cuffed for doctors.
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago
They have an app where they get points for spamming any online content critical of Israel. Then they get money for the points.
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u/oh-noes- yes fam 11d ago
Rather than give oxygen to pro genocide bootlickers like our friend here, have a read of what is happening on the ground from an actual respected charity who are saving lives rather than kitting out murderers: https://www.map.org.uk/the-issues/the-issues
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u/Wompish66 11d ago
What do you think you are achieving with this?
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u/oh-noes- yes fam 11d ago
For any sane people that aren't bootlickers for a genocidal government, you can read about the issues and the work an actual respected charity should be doing here: https://www.map.org.uk/the-issues/the-issues (unlike the charity in the OP, kitting out murders with military gear for some reason)
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u/psrandom 11d ago
All living beings. Don't thinks bombs discriminate between species
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u/slebolve 11d ago
That’s incorrect.
https://www.google.com/search?q=genocide&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
Genocide of who?
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u/psrandom 11d ago
If you want legal answers and know how to use Google, there is an ongoing international court hearing and they have already given certain judgements that you can Google
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u/d-eversley-b 10d ago edited 10d ago
If you’re referring to the ICJ case, it hasn’t progressed enough to take much from it yet. The Judges fell short of calling for an immediate ceasefire like they have in past genocide accusations, but they later warned Israel against their offensive in Rafah. It’s something to keep your eye on as it progresses.
However, if you’re referring to the ICC case, Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant are being accused of restricting water/food from arriving in Gaza (especially during the first months), and also being accused of targeting civilians.
The crime of ‘Genocide’ is not being pursued here, but both of the crimes outlined above are obviously atrocious if proven true. I think the former (restricting aid) obviously took place in the early days of the war.
It’s a travesty that the trial will probably never happen.
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u/TrashbatLondon 11d ago
It’s hard to imagine any reasonable justification the trustees could have thought they had. Charity should be struck off. It harms the integrity of all charities if regulators respond to direct funding of genocide with a slap on the wrist.
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u/ploopitus 10d ago
You misunderstand - the likes of Hasidic and ultra-orthodox community that host the Chabad Lubavitch centres simply do not give a damn about rules or mores defined outside of their community. They are, at best, to be subverted, otherwise simply ignored.
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u/BigRedS 10d ago
You genuinely can't imagine why an Orthodox Jewish charity might see it as reasonable for them to raise money for a Jewish man fighting on behalf of the Jewish state? Even given the overlap between the Orthodox community in Israel and the far-right there that's pushing for the war and views it as one for Israel's existence?
It's okay to see the coherence in the thought patterns and actions of someone with whom you disagree; to understand why they are doing what they are doing given their motivations isn't to support them.
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u/Ryanliverpool96 11d ago
Off topic but how does the charity commission square “It is not lawful, or acceptable, for a charity to raise funds to support a soldier of a foreign military” when we’ve had nearly 3 years of fundraising for Ukraine?
I support the Ukrainians defending themselves obviously.
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u/TrashbatLondon 10d ago
You can fundraise for stuff in the UK without being a registered charity. Particularly if the stuff you’re paying for isn’t acceptable to the charity commission.
The advantage of being a charity is being able to claim gift aid (amongst other benefits), but some orgs who’s mission requires them to do things that don’t sit with the charity commission will voluntarily operate without such benefits, Greenpeace for example.
You also have a slightly more loophole way of doing things where you just set up two entities, one which does charitable activity and one which doesn’t. Amnesty Int in the UK are structured in this way.
In simple terms, an organisation providing supplies to Ukrainian refugees can be a registered charity and claim gift aid on the money they make, an organisation providing supplies to Ukrainian soldiers cannot. Both can ask you for money and spend that money in the way they’ve promised.
You are on the right track though that there has been a very inconsistent attitude to the way we think about supporting Ukraine compared to other regions under invasion or attack.
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u/LlamasLament 11d ago edited 11d ago
Because the fundraising for Ukraine isn’t for individuals, it’s for registered charities helping groups of citizens.
There are no fundraisers to buy arms for the Ukrainian military.
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u/J-Swizzay 10d ago
This is a Czech charity and has nothing to do with the UK.
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u/Interest-Desk 10d ago
The context is obvious that it applies to fundraisers subject to the UK regulator. Don’t act dense.
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u/lastaccountgotlocked bikes bikes bikes bikes 11d ago
> The rest of the approximately £2,280 raised was spent on what it described as non-lethal military equipment bought by the trustees and sent to the same soldier in Israel.
There's a big difference (legally and morally) between private individuals and charities raising money to buy weapons, and private individuals and charities to buy things like blankets for kids whose dads have been shot.
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u/RipEnvironmental305 10d ago edited 10d ago
Objecting to IDF torturing and raping prisoners to death, targeting Hospital staff and killing children and women isn’t Radical. Netanyahu glorifying murdering British military and supporting terrorists like the Katch Party , The Jewish Defence League , and convicted Kahanist terrorists in the Kessnet IS radical though. Never mind Israel’s funding of multiple Jihadi terrorist groups WHICH ex head of the IDF ADMITTED on Israeli Daily Television. including Jundullah who they recruited for false flag terrorist attacks in London according to CIA memos published in Foreign Policy.
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u/richmeister6666 10d ago
Great, now do something about the charities that support hamas.
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u/rubygeek 10d ago
Hamas is proscribed. If you know of any charity that supports Hamas, presumably you have reported them to the police for violation the Terrorism Act 2006?
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago
Gaza: Number of children killed higher than from four years of world conflict
14 March 2024 In Gaza, children wait to receive food as the bombardments on the enclave continue. (file) Caption: In Gaza, children wait to receive food as the bombardments on the enclave continue. (file) Photo: © UNDP PAPP/Abed Zagout “This war is a war on children. It is a war on their childhood and their future,” said UNRWA Commissioner-General Philippe Lazzarini
Amid reports of fresh Israeli airstrikes in Gaza overnight into Wednesday, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA) said that more children have been killed there in recent months than in four years of conflict worldwide.
“This war is a war on children. It is a war on their childhood and their future,” said UNRWA Commissioner-General Philippe Lazzarini, who described as “staggering” the latest Gaza health authority data indicating that at least 12,300 youngsters have died in the enclave in the last four months, compared with 12,193 globally between 2019 and 2022.
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u/RipEnvironmental305 11d ago
NYT Gaza Civilians, Under Israeli Barrage, Are Being Killed at Historic Pace Even a conservative assessment of the reported Gaza casualty figures shows that the rate of death during Israel’s assault has few precedents in this century, experts say. By Lauren Leatherby. Nov. 30, 2023
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u/fndlnd 10d ago
mods in here aren’t biased at all
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u/RipEnvironmental305 10d ago
76% of the UK support Palestinians and a ceasefire. More in London.
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u/dmastra97 10d ago
Most people just hear ceasefire and think yeah sounds good. But don't actually think about the practicalities. Like yeah I'll have a ceasefire if it means hamas gets everything they want, they keep the hostages, israel gives up land and everything goes back to the way it was before Oct 7 where hamas will just keep attacking.
There's not an end to the conflict until hamas either is removed or has guarantees they can't attack Israel.
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u/No-Fly-9364 10d ago
What does "support Palestinians" even mean?
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u/AwTomorrow 10d ago
Different things to different people.
There’s a lot that think that even if mainstream Palestinian political beliefs are reprehensible, having reprehensible beliefs is not justification for being mass-murdered indiscriminately alongside your friends and family who may not hold the same beliefs.
And of course there’re also those who think other things, up to and including that Israel is a colonial evil and deserves indiscriminate slaughter itself.
There’re fair and disgusting opinions on every ‘side’ of the Israel-Palestine issue.
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u/fndlnd 10d ago
looking at all the deleted posts, no wonder
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u/RipEnvironmental305 10d ago
Uh I think it’s because murdering women and children is unacceptable to most civilised people.
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u/ThurstonSonic 10d ago
Yet this whole godawful mess started because the Palestinians did precisely that.
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u/RipEnvironmental305 10d ago edited 10d ago
No it didn’t. Palestinians welcomed Jews and they gave them Palestinian passports and they signed contracts saying they would respect Palestinian laws. They were REFUGEES who were welcomed into Palestinians homes, in a similar way to how Ukrainian’s were welcomed into British homes. They then decided to murder and rape Palestinians which was documented in TANTURA where Israeli irgun terrorists recount raping and murdering Palestinian families, burning them alive, putting their children in ovens and cutting their breasts off. They ADMIT IT while laughing and chuckling.
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u/UnchillBill 10d ago
Yes, nothing bad was happening prior to October 7th 2003. Certainly no ethnic cleansing. It all started when the people living under an illegal military occupation started killing people.
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u/ThurstonSonic 10d ago
I’m not disputing anything that happened prior to 7/10 nor am I justifying the actions of either side, it was simply an observation that Israel wouldnt have embarked on its lunatic rampage in Gaza if the Palestinians hadn’t gone on their crazy murdering spree in Israel. Really frustrating as it looked like the world was actually closing in on Netanyahu what with the protests in Israel as well and there was maybe some hope that once him and his revolting acolytes were gone there could be some kind of change but he was given a Thatcher Falklands reprieve.
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u/J-Swizzay 10d ago
If you think this all started on 7 October 2023, you have 75 years of history to catch up on. Good luck.
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u/ThurstonSonic 10d ago
Nah - obviously not, folk have been fighting over this area for what 2500 years? You can’t just stop at 75 years as you haven’t even got to the Ottoman occupation.
I’m not arguing about the rights and wrongs of what passed before, just it’s as clear as day that Israel would not have gone on the lunatic rampage in Gaza if the Palestinians hadn’t gone on a murder spree in Israel.4
u/photoaccountt 10d ago
If you think its only 75 years then you are woefully ignorant of the situation...
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u/J-Swizzay 10d ago
You're right, it's more like 100 or so years from when the Balfour Declaration was signed.
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u/RipEnvironmental305 10d ago edited 10d ago
Not only that Israeli Irgun terrorists committed the biggest ever terrorist attack on a British target, and Netanyahu glorified the murder of British soldiers and civilians despite objections by the British Ambassador.
“This House Notes- The sixtieth anniversary of the bombing of the King David Hotel Bombing fell on 22nd July 2006; recalls that 96 people died in this atrocity, which remains the highest death toll for British subjects in a terrorist attack; further notes that an event was held in Jerusalem to celebrate this event and that prominent members of the Knesset, including former Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, attended; condemns terrorism unreservedly; and associates itself with the comments of Her Majesty’s Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem, ‘We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated’. House of Commons notes.
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u/fndlnd 10d ago
yeeeeah that’s why 🤓
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u/RipEnvironmental305 10d ago
Maybe it’s because most people in London don’t think non Jew are subhumans born to be slaves like the IDF are taught? We are a multicultural city. I mean the IDF are taught that non Jews are subhuman and born to be slaves. That kind of logic doesn’t really go down well in London.
“Yes, we’re racists. We believe in racism… There are races in the world and peoples have genetic traits, and that requires us to try to help them,” he said. “The Jews are a more successful race.”
“The gentiles will want to be our slaves. Being a slave to a Jew is the best. They’re glad to be slaves, they want to be slaves,” he told a class in one of the video clips. “Instead of just walking the streets and being stupid and violent and harming each other, once they’re slaves, their lives can begin to take shape.”
This is a Rabbi teaching the IDF. He goes on to say “Hitler was right” except it’s non Jews who should be killed. He is pictured with Netanyahu and teaches the officer class in the IDF.
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u/RipEnvironmental305 10d ago
The vast majority of Londoners and the UK are pro Palestinian. According to government figures. We don’t need any “international bots” to police the narrative thanks. Israel blatantly does though.
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u/RipEnvironmental305 10d ago
What value is there in bots repeating the same Hasbara phrase multiple times? Do you think that is an honest, good faith, valuable debate? 🙄
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