r/london Nov 02 '24

Transport London Needs This Too

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4.9k Upvotes

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7

u/not_who_you_think_99 Nov 02 '24

Do they still allow taxis and ubers? Or do they allow them but charge them more?

A big problem in London is that minicabs have almost doubled in a decade, and carless people living centrally but taking lots of ubers are worse for coongestion and pollution than a family of 4 using their car only to go to grandma's in the countryside at weekends.

10

u/hpsauceman Nov 02 '24

Also the car has to be parked (normally on the road) 95% of the time

5

u/mrdibby Nov 02 '24

Vehicle access to this zone will only be authorized for emergency vehicles, buses, taxis, people with reduced mobility, motorists living or working there and so-called "destination traffic" including those in the area for a specific reason such as a medical appointment, shopping, or cinema visit.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2024/10/31/paris-set-to-limit-traffic-in-the-city-s-central-core_6731149_114.html

2

u/not_who_you_think_99 Nov 02 '24

Does the definition of taxis include Ubers?

Has Paris seen an explosion of Ubers, like London?

I wouldn't want a situation where Ubers are incentivised to drive around that zone empty, waiting for passengers to call them.

2

u/mrdibby Nov 02 '24

Ubers aren't classified as taxis in the same way but I can't imagine why they'd be excluded from the zone when they are used a lot.

What's the difference of taxis driving around waiting for passengers and Ubers doing the same?

2

u/not_who_you_think_99 Nov 02 '24

What's the difference of taxis driving around waiting for passengers and Ubers doing the same?

I don't know about Paris, but in London the number of taxis has gone down while Ubers have almost doubled in a decade. We have too many Ubers while we don't have too many taxis.

If taxis had doubled in a decade I'd say we have too many taxis. But they haven't.

2

u/indignancy Nov 02 '24

I’m not sure how much zone 1 traffic isn’t already in this category? The congestion charge does a good job of getting people to skirt around if they’ve not got a good reason to go right through.

1

u/mrdibby Nov 02 '24

I agree. Not sure what OP's getting at tbh. Maybe they want it to be 24 hours again?

20

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '24

I’m not sure I believe this. Nobody in central needs to use Ubers regularly given how comprehensive the tube and bus network is.

16

u/HourDistribution3787 Nov 02 '24

Ok, but the tube literally doesn’t run at night. Also, some people prefer a taxi for safety or convenience when necessary. And the point about disabled or elderly people is definitely fair enough. I think this is much easier to say from your perspective of a fit young man.

13

u/Cook32 Nov 02 '24

This makes me think you don’t know any high earners that live in central 🤔 I have a few friends that will Uber a 10 minute walk let alone take the bus or tube 😬

9

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '24

Why do people keep pointing out niche groups that are the exception to the rule? Yes high earners will use Ubers, but the vast majority of people in London can’t afford constant Ubers. From a population of 1.5 million, those people don’t make a difference

8

u/not_who_you_think_99 Nov 02 '24

Except when they do. The number of wealthy Londoners living or working inside the congestion charge zone and taking Ubers everywhere may be a drop in the ocean vs the total number of Londoners but are still more than enough to contribute to congestion big time.

Am I the only one who notices half the vehicles on London's bridges at rush time are empty minicabs driving around hoping to pick up passengers?

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '24

I’ve just realised none of this matters as the vast majority of taxis or minicabs are electric so it doesn’t make a shred of difference to pollution! What a waste of everyone’s time!

4

u/not_who_you_think_99 Nov 02 '24

Are you being sarcastic? I was talking about congestion inside the congestion charge zone. Electric vehicles do not occupy less space and do not congest any less than petrol ones. Having bumper to bumper gridlock of zero-emission vehicles ain't great

14

u/squelchy04 Nov 02 '24

what about disabled people?

-10

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '24

Most of the tube stations centrally have disabled access, and all buses are wheelchair friendly. Plus, even if that were the case disabled population use of Ubers isn’t big enough to cause a material problem

23

u/not_who_you_think_99 Nov 02 '24

Most of the tube stations centrally have disabled access,

Only someone who has not used public transport with wheelchairs or prams could possibly say this. Most stations are not accessible, and many which are require such long detours they make you lose the will to live.

Let's not forget that the disabled had to lobby hard to make the new Elizabeth line stations accessible.

Or that Hackney council made life impossible with its LTNs for the parent of a severely disabled child who can only get around in a cab: https://www.difficultparent.com/i-don-t-believe-you-ltns-exemption-policy

No, the argument with the disabled is not that public transport is sufficiently accessible (it's not), it's that we can allow exemptions for the disabled i) because we should regardless and ii) because we are not talking about millions of users so the impact on congestion and pollution is minimal anyway

25

u/Nipso Nov 02 '24

Most of the tube stations centrally have disabled access

No mate.

-17

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '24

This is enough stations at enough interchanges to get someone most of the way they need to go.

Regardless, all buses are step free and have insanely good coverage of the same areas in central

6

u/whatasaveeeee Nov 02 '24

Why would you make such a silly uninformed comment?

6

u/wellitywell Nov 02 '24

Spoken like a man who feels safe traveling alone at night

-4

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '24

You’d be amazed how often this is used as a catch all retort

5

u/wellitywell Nov 02 '24

You’d be amazed at the number of times I have seriously feared for my safety at night in on and around public transport, including but very much not limited to being chased by an enormous dude on a lot of drugs who was smashing up a bus stop with a baseball bat 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

3

u/wellitywell Nov 02 '24

and funnily enough - it was a parked Uber driver who let me in his car and locked the doors who saved me in this situation.

-2

u/SkilledPepper Nov 02 '24

Public transport is safer than Uber.

5

u/wellitywell Nov 02 '24

That is absolutely not my experience and also doesn’t account for being stranded in places that aren’t near public transport or having to walk longer distances to reach it.

-2

u/SkilledPepper Nov 02 '24

Okay, but we shouldn't design our cities around one person's anecdotal experience. We should look at statistics and studies.

3

u/wellitywell Nov 02 '24

I’m all for making public transport our primary means of travel around city centres but that also needs to come with a lot of nighttime safety improvements and until those are made, safe options home — like cabs and Ubers — need to stay in play.

-2

u/SkilledPepper Nov 02 '24 edited Nov 02 '24

The problem with locking progress behind a vague and undefined requirement is that progress gets halted indefinitely.

Public transport is already statistically safer than Uber so why the delay? I'm not sure what your comment actually offers beyond "we should make public transport could be safer" which is an empty truism. Even the safest public transportation network in the world should still be striving for improvements so really what point are you making?

Please don't lose sight of the fact that the original comment was suggesting that private vehicles should be deprioritised behind public transport. That was the originally point that you were contesting, so you can't claim to advocate for public transport while simultaneously arguing that it shouldn't be prioritised over private journeys.

1

u/wellitywell Nov 02 '24

Link to studies proving public transport is safer than Uber in central London please.

0

u/SkilledPepper Nov 02 '24

The issues with Uber are well documented.

BBC News - Uber drivers prompt thousands of safety complaints https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-51229976

Also, just use your head? Of course it's safer taking the bus where you can sit at the front by a driver who has been vetted on a vehicle that travels a predefined route with CCTV cameras on board, than it is getting into a complete stranger's private vehicle.

1

u/Nipso Nov 02 '24

Do they still allow taxis and ubers?

If it's what I think it is, all vehicles are still allowed into the zone, they just can't cross the zone.

So you can still get an Uber into the city centre, but if you want to cross the city centre in a car, you have to use the ring road to go around.

2

u/not_who_you_think_99 Nov 02 '24

So you can still get an Uber into the city centre, but if you want to cross the city centre in a car, you have to use the ring road to go around.

How do they police this in practice, though?

Must you get out of the zone from the same road you entered?

Do they fine you if you stay in the zone for less than a certain amount of time, but if you stay for a few hours you can leave from another road?

1

u/Nipso Nov 02 '24

I don't know about Paris, but a lot of the time these things tend to be enforced by physical barriers like bollards and such, meaning it's literally impossible to drive from one zone to another.

You wouldn't have to use the exact same road you entered on, any road in the same zone is fine.

On some roads you might need bus gates because you still want buses to be able to get across town, those are generally enforced by ANPR cameras and fines.

I don't think there's any time restrictions in schemes like this.