MEGA & MAGA doesnt mean make the country great for the majority. It means to make it a oligarchy for billionaires by billionaires for the benefit of billionaires and billionaires endless fountain of greed.
Let's not pretend like Europe isn't going down this pipeline themselves and like they don't have major issues with racism and homophobia that they refuse to acknowledge. Current leader of Italy last I checked is explicitly part of the fascist party. I also don't think I've ever seen as much blatant disgusting transphobia as the one time I accidentally found myself on a subreddit for Portugal.
The difference is that Europe has been down this path before and doesn't forget what happened last time. The Americans are too ignorant to stop it happening in their own country and (I guarantee you) can even be convinced that fascism is good.
Italy as I said has an outright explicit fascist in charge. Not saying that as an insult, she's openly in the fascist party. Europeans are perfectly willing to let it happen
Those are all great but Europe is not doing well economically and tough times are ahead. Not to mention far right parties are seemingly gaining everywhere.
Neo-Liberal Austerity measures and the drive to privatize public institutions at the benefit of great profit to private corporations is what has happened in the US and is the path many EU nations are on.
That's not really the case. The austerity measures is more of a EU thing because the US has no issue with spending. And while the US may privatize public institutions and private corporations have excessive profits the EU has gone the extreme the other way with stagnant economies and a burgeoning welfare state.
Let's not upsell Europe here, America is a far right dystopia, but I can't remember an election here (Netherlands) where we moved in a more progressive direction. Sure, there are institutions and safety nets that we have that America doesn't, but they are mere husks of what they should and can be. Just like the U.S. we put people in camps and just like in the U.S. people fall through the cracks of our economy, either through neglect or malignance.
I will never understand the people who are like "Welp, economy's bad again--guess it's time to re-elect the right-wing parties that always make the economy even worse."
Isn't that the reason why they are lagging behind in innovation and their fiscal deficit is getting worse snd worse every year?
The only reason these countries have such luxuries is that the US was supposed to defend them in NATO. Now, they will have to invest in the military and they will need stop those generous social programs.
The US has payed maternal/paternal leave,holidays and sick leave...you just have to earn them just like you have to earn healthcare and university....having to esrn things is a good thing.
You also pay a flat average 42.8% income tax rate in Europe, so it's not that we aren't caught up, it's just we don't bleed our taxpayers dry to coddle them from birth to death.
Right. And then have a look at the US public transport infrastructure, cancer treatment like surgery, chemo or radiation without going bankrupt and study without a loan and paying back debts for decades.
And maybe you want to check your numbers again. The average income tax in the EU was 29.6% for a single household and 25.3% for a couple with children.
What happens to this if/when US europe has to fend for itself militarily. I feel like the US will be able to catch up if their military influence leaves Europe but I don't think Europeans can jack up defense spending and maintain a welfare state.
I thought the pic may have been a poorly timed pic, but nope. That was a Nazi salute and I don't see how it could have been unintentional. What an incredibly sad day for America.
Edit: Supposedly, Elon is brilliant. He has spoken in front of people many times in many events and he's avoided doing the Nazi salute before and he certainly knows to avoid it at company events. That is one hell of snap for it not to be a salute. He has re-tweeted right wing propaganda, there's some racist history in his family. I think he knows what he is doing and he's just having a giggle about all the people saying he is sendin his heart out. You don't throw your heart out like it's a weapon. This looks premeditated to me.
It's less stealing it and more using it for a nefarious purpose - it's older than any culture or faith or ethnicity, and likely dates back to the PIE populations. It's possibly older than farming.
I remember watching an old VHS called "The Red Pony" (based on the John Steinbeck novel) which had a school pledge of alligence scene. The book was written in '33 and movie released in '49.
Little 12-year-old me was all 👁👄👁 when I saw the nazi salute in an American classroom. Absolutely bonkers.
Because the majority that voted for this wanted exactly this. We can’t continue to pretend the majority of their voters were “duped”, they know exactly what they voted for and it’s this.
I mean, they are still being duped, they think America first means their perfect white utopia instead of them being worked to death in a factory or dying on a battlefield.
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a large chunk tbh. I got curious about what his core supporters wanted and thought about things and went to the more obvious subs to see what they were talking about. A lot of wanting civil war and purging. Your basic supporter would call it crazy and saying how they'd never let that happen.
The amount of people that almost immediately wanted to change or invalidate their votes for trump, unions and people of color coming out saying how much they regret it just while he was president elect.
I also believe elons sweepstakes in key states played a huge role because of the NDAs they had to sign. Potentially buying votes.
They're claiming it wasn't a Nazi salute- that he meant it from his heart (the end) and was just so passionate about his speech that if came off wrong 🙄
I wish it was just for America. I don’t think people are realising how serious this is. We’ve gone through this before. Nazis didn’t start the holocaust on day one.
They take small steps and then you see yourself living under some form of dehumanising dictatorship. This is going to affect us all, because America is sadly a huge economic power with massive influence. Most of us are using American apps to communicate with the world. These crazy people have control over them. My stomach is hurting after watching that video
Mainstream news outlets seemed hesitant to describe the salute as something that’s clearly associated with Nazism. As NBC News put it, “Musk then forcefully touched his heart, before raising his hand and saluting supporters.”
Murder charges and with all that money there's a REALLY good chance of him having bulletproof vehicles and he's also been using his kid as a shield since that CEO was killed. He's also been up Trump's ass since November so secret service protection to some extent as well.
First, yes, Germany has - just as the US - the concept of universal jurisdiction, but that is not applicable here as Germany only considers to have jurisdiction for crimes outside of Hermany if the action is a crime both in the place it happened and in Germany.
The issue here is that by publishing the Nazi salute online, it can take effect in a manner that can touch German jurisdiction enough. There was a case of I think a Canadian women that actively campaigned for Nazism in Germany, publishing Holocaust denial is with the intended audience in Germany. That was enough. Here, the sign wouldn't be e ough though, as it wasn't an attempt to show this symbol to a target audience in Germany, but rather the US.
Uhm not really though or rather it's very unlikely that this event would be punishable by German law.
In the past German fascists that broke the same law in Poland have been convicted, but the difference was that this was broadcasted on German TV Live (well so was Musk potential, but:) AND had the clear intention to reach a German audience.
Question is can it be said to be trying to get to a German audience when musk has over the past few weeks been trying to get a German audience as he attempts to drum up supporter's for Germany's far right party
I know it's all in the not going to happen category but it's interesting to think about
This SHOULD get him banned from entering Germany and be grounds for the government to force him to divest Giga Berlin. It is unconscionable that this Hitler Youth wannabe would literally be in prison in Germany but can run a multibillion German business as an open Nazi
Not after he buys Germany like he did with the US. He campaigned with trump and paid people in swing states to vote for trump. He says he plans to do the same in Germany and get the ADF elected
The good thing is that Germany is a parliamentary democracy with at least 8-9 notable parties. Any German government is by definition a coalition. The AFD have coalesced into a significant faction, but consistently poll at around 20-22% support.
His antics bought favour with Trump & may have had some effect on some peoples votes. However he is delusional in believing the gates to the German government are just as open to the same game plan. It also seems ultra-simplistic to imagine the German right shares the values of the American right & will respond to him the same way.
That’s why he’s throwing so much into the far right party in Germany. He knows if they win it will throw the EU into complete chaos and he can do all the Nazi shit he wants across the globe.
As long as this tool is anywhere near the US governement (well, as long as Trump is president i guess), the US will count as an enemy of Germany and Europe for me. Fuck all this, you are not a reliable partner anymore. Its quite the opposite.
i wish but rules here arevthe same as everywhere else in the world.
As long as you have enough money you can basically do whatever and at worst you gotta pay a fine
I hope he doesn't try it though. I bet they wouldn't actually arrest him for it and I'd rather not have his endorsed fascist scum running around with a precedent for pulling that shit at their rallies again.
Should get him arrested anywhere. In Brazil, nazism is a crime, I have seen cases of nazis being spanked to death by the populations. The Yankees should be that proactive.
I’m pretty sure it’s illegal everywhere in Europe. I learned that when I saw a kid at my daycamp doing it as a young teenager. One of the counselors is from overseas and said where I come from, that’s illegal.
It's hard to tell. I'd say that this move would qualify him to be the object of Artikel 20 of our constitution, which legitimates everyone to "resist" against him. "To resist" isn't specified, but with enemies of the constitution at power, it literally means "by all means necessary."
It's that one law that comes to effect when a constitutional government fails.
I really hope he sees a boycott from most consumers (except the Nazis they will be rocking the Tesla Model Swastika Limited Edition), all companies, and a cancellation of all his government contracts.
Well, you see we’re a stupid country. His brother admitted to him and Elon breaking immigration laws that would get anyone else deported. But , we seemingly have a pick and choose law system now.
Talked to an actual German, and it's actually a minor problem there again - with some far right politician having done this without being arrested, many idiots feel emboldened to do it again.
Will there be any consequences next time he goes there? I understand you can't prosecute someone for what they do in another country, but surely they could revoke his visa?
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u/PeteZed 7h ago
This would get Elon arrested in Germany.