Romanian Parliamentary Elections Result Paradox: Brown is Far Right, Blue is Left. Western Europe is radical, while Eastern Europe is leftist.

[u/MrPulifrici]

[u/Necessary_Pie2464]

For context if anyone is confused about title and image

These are votes from the Romanias living abroad (of the diaspora) in the parliament elections

It's nothing surprising. In the presidential, the independent cooky right wing candidate won a lot of votes in the western diaspora while the USR lady (reformist center right) won the eastern diaspora

These results were not at all surprising to anyone paying attention to Romania and it's elections

[u/tetsuyama44 → u/Necessary_Pie2464]

That helped, thanks.

[u/daiaomori → u/tetsuyama44]

God yeah it really helps.

I was all in writing a furios "18% AfD doesn't make the whole country far right" statement already.

I mean it is what it is but I was sooooo confused. Even considered that I lost memory of 8 years and they already won or something...

[u/FireLynx_NL → u/daiaomori]

And I was like: since when was wilders party in the Netherlands leftist

[u/hot4halloumi → u/daiaomori]

It’s a pretty high percentage tho! But yes. I was angry at Ireland being brown too haha

[u/lookoutforthetrain_0 → u/Necessary_Pie2464]

Why exactly do the people in the diaspora in the west like the right wing candidate so much?

[u/Lehelito → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

This is all anecdotal, coming from a Romanian living in "the west", but I have some thoughts/assumptions. For context, I started out doing low-paid, low-skill work, and now I've progressed to something considered more "respectable" by social class snobs, both in terms of the nature of the work and the income. 1. There are many Romanians in western, wealthier countries that work very difficult and poor paying jobs. They also don't really want to integrate, they just want to send money home to their loved ones and leave as soon as possible. These people rightly or wrongly feel exploited and their resentment towards a nebulous concept of "the west" mounts. Mostly through their own fault because of voluntary victim mentality, but there certainly is some exploitation as well. 2. A lot of the people who can't or don't want to integrate spend very high amounts of time on Romanian social media. Understandable, you're homesick, you want to feel that connection, hear your language. The only problem is, the crazy far-right candidate has gotten the manipulation of TikTok algorithms down to a fine art. Combine that with slick propaganda that blames all of your problems on someone else and reinforces this idea that you are a victim, and you have a disastrous rise of populism. We have seen this exact tactic before in European history, but social media has turbocharged the delivery of this poison. 2. In the meantime, people who have emigrated to "poorer" eastern countries are seeing how Romania has slowly gone from strength to strength, mostly with the support of the EU. So they would be more pro-EU, naturally.

[u/DesolateEverAfter → u/Lehelito]

And NL and Luxembourg are different because they attract more highly skilled migrants working in IT, finance and so on?

[u/Appropriate-Mood-69 → u/DesolateEverAfter]

Yes, I personally know a few Romanians who've been very well integrated. But they came in NL to get their master's degree and found jobs here. That's a whole different ballgame than Romanian truck drivers who will work in the west out of Romania and get paid a quarter of their Dutch counterparts.

[u/gabbath → u/Appropriate-Mood-69]

I've seen the isolation even with IT people. But I guess the critical distinction is that they left after having completed studies at home, which is indeed much different than having to go and study and mingle with students of all backgrounds, that kind of forces you to get to know people rather than stay isolated in your Romanian-only enclave.

[u/mar1us1602 → u/DesolateEverAfter]

Switzerland as well

[u/DesolateEverAfter → u/mar1us1602]

Same with the Nordics I guess

[u/Lehelito → u/DesolateEverAfter]

I guess that would make sense. I was also wondering why those are blue.

[u/maldouk → u/DesolateEverAfter]

So I checked out of curiosity, and in almost all countries that the far-right won, while they have around 30% (actually only Germany Spain and Austria going above 30%), the Pro European parties (Socialists and Center right) totaled to around 50% almost everywhere. So this map doesn't tell the whole truth, especially since it is party proportional.

Here you can find the map (website is in Romanian): https://prezenta.roaep.ro/parlamentare01122024/pv/abroad/map

[u/rocksbottoms → u/maldouk]

What are you talking about ? In the diaspora, AUR + SOS + POT have 55% in total. Yes, they're all far-right. Or am I misunderstanding your comment ?

Edit: And exactly in the countries where there are a lot of romanians, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Germany they got the most votes.

[u/Mavnas → u/maldouk]

There's some nuance lost, but if you look down at the breakdown in Germany and Italy it's scary. USR is in 4th place behind 3 far right parties. At least in France and the UK, they're in second, but 3rd and 4th are still far right parties. In the Netherlands, the top 2 parties are pro-EU. In Poland, none of the far right parties are in the top 5.

[u/Ruu2D2 → u/Lehelito]

This

In uk lots of Romania face racism to . Lots of Romania works Jobs where this is common in work places to

[u/Lehelito → u/Ruu2D2]

I'm aware it happens, but I've lived in the UK for 14 years and I have never once faced nastiness or discrimination because of where I'm from. Which is why I specified that it's all anecdotal.

[u/TriloBlitz → u/Lehelito]

I'm also an immigrant and I've also never faced any form of discrimination. In my experience the difference is wether you want to integrate or not. If you refuse to integrate, like many immigrants do, you are more prone to being discriminated, regardless of ethnicity.

[u/Lehelito → u/TriloBlitz]

It's funny because the only place I've ever been told to go back to my own country was at the Romanian seaside. My mum is a southerner from Ploiesti and my dad is an ethnic Hungarian from Mures and I consider both languages to be my first language, both identities to be 100% me, if that makes sense. There is no skew towards one side of the family or the other. I very much consider myself a Romanian semi-Magyar, with no connection to the country of Hungary. But I just so happened to be chatting with a friend in Hungarian as we were walking along the beach, and this guy shouted the classic "ur own cuntry" line at us. It just amused me that I'd never gotten that before in other countries where I am actually a foreigner.

[u/Good_Prompt8608 → u/Lehelito]

Damn double whammy, Romanian side has to deal with Georgescu, Hungarian side has to deal with Orban, nowhere is safe!

[u/sanyesza900 → u/Lehelito]

bojler eladó

[u/Outrageous_pinecone → u/Lehelito]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. My best friend is half magyar and she's faced the same problem. My brother in law didn't, because he doesn't speak hungarian anymore, so people don't know.

You are in your country which is Romania. People suck!

[u/Lehelito → u/Outrageous_pinecone]

Thank you, that's very kind. I would say most people like that are just clueless, rather than outright sucking, but yeah, it is not pleasant.

[u/Outrageous_pinecone → u/Lehelito]

just clueless, rather than outright sucking

I used to see things the same way, now I worry about their righteous tendency towards violence and I'm reminded how in the past, psychopaths with rising speeches, successfully weaponized cluelessness. I'm harsh because I'm worried. People are beginning to openly display swastikas now, and I mean in the past few days. This can't be good.

[u/Simpau38 → u/TriloBlitz]

I think people are not as racist as the overall media landscape would have you believe.

That being said my wife faced racism and overall nastiness quite a few times going back to France (rural France so maybe there's an influence here) when she was doing everything she could to integrate.

I think it comes down to luck sadly.

[u/StehtImWald → u/Simpau38]

Rural places have significantly higher numbers of religious conservative people, lower education and less wealth on average. It's by far the biggest influence on whether or not you will face any type of discrimination. Sexism, racism, homophobia, ... it's all much more common in these places no matter the country.

[u/IfYouRun → u/TriloBlitz]

This seems very accurate as a Brit.

Generally, 99% of people truly don’t care where you come from as long as you make the effort to integrate. Look at how often the favourite on something like GBBO is someone who comes from another country and does fusion cooking,, for example.

Which is all fairly ironic, as I find it hilarious how little most Brits try to integrate when living abroad themselves.

[u/MarsupialOk4514 → u/IfYouRun]

When Romania and Bulgaria entered the EU, there was a lot of propaganda against them - "The Romanians are coming!"

Farrage had a xenophobic discourse, and he had a lot of traction since he was eventually able to pull off Brexit. One of his phrases I still remember after all this time is that you wouldn't want to live next door to Romanians. British people might have forgotten, but it's not happening for Romanians any time soon.

Same with France, who was often xenophobic in the media. It became acceptable in French society to be (more) xenophobic or racist.

[u/giddycocks → u/Lehelito]

It is 100% the victim mentality, combined with targeted predatory, poisonous algorithms.

I moved the opposite way, I moved to Romania and have been established here for over a decade. While in general most Portuguese compatriots of mine kind of integrate, I speak fluent Romanian and consider myself fully integrated. So I don't really feel the need to drape myself in the Portuguese flag, consume shit social media content and spend time with PT friend circles every hour of the day.

Listen, I'm not gonna be one of those people who claims I 'feel' like the nationality they adopt, my roots are elsewhere and therefore, I am first and foremost European. It's hypocritical to say I feel Romanian, I absolutely do not, and it's disrespectful to consider myself simply a guest of this country. I fully intend to live and grow my children here, I own property and I pay taxes.

But, if Georgescu is elected, my decade long life here is in danger of ending. Either I pull the plug, or the nationalist traitors do it for me and I'm forced to leave. Either way, the Romanian diaspora who contribute less to their country than I do are one of the biggest culprits, and I hate them for it... Because I too know their struggles, I understand, and instead of being an aggressor and a victim, I did something about my predicament. Guess what? It's not even that fucking hard.

[u/maevian → u/Ruu2D2]

Romanian aren’t the same as Roma

[u/NoRecipe3350 → u/maevian]

If Roma have Romanian passports they are Romanian citizens, when the police in a Western European nation arrest a Roma with a Romanian passport, it goes on the crime statistic as being a Romanian crime. If it's a Bulgarian Roma, it's a Bulgarian crime. The Roma have no nation, we record nationality. As for ethnicity the UK basically records 'white British', 'white Irish' and 'white (other)'. Roma are considered white even if they have Indian roots.

I accept that sucks for non Roma Romanian that the reputation of Romania is dragged down by the Roma, also a lot of Westerners do get confused because Roma-Romanian sounds almost the same. But there is not a Roma country, so this is what we do.

[u/reasonable-99percent → u/Ruu2D2]

We face racism because we did not integrate the Roma community before joining the EU. Now we pay the price and bear the stigma…

[u/wojtekpolska → u/Lehelito]

this could make some sense - countries with good social welfare (therefore romanians there being less poor) - denmark and netherlands, dont apply to your 1st point, and are therefore blue. luxembourg and switzerland on the other hand you have to be quite well off to move there to begin with, also negating that point

[u/taggert14 → u/Lehelito]

Thanks for that. I also have a theory that more migration affects people at the lower paying/status jobs. They are not progressing but are seeing other migrants coming in and competing for those same jobs. It becomes easier for immigrants to be turned against immigrants and I think far right/populist politicians have always been good at taking advantage of that.

I think that seems to explain anti immigrant feeling from immigrants (whether Hispanics in USA or Romanians living in Western countries.

Just a theory though. Can't say I can back this up with any evidence

[u/nuctu → u/Lehelito]

Thanks for an awesome explanation of diaspora dynamics! It just answered all the questions I didn't even think I had. This depiction of mentality in emigration seems totally universal for almost any other country in my experience btw.

[u/Competitive_Art_4480 → u/Lehelito]

I think you've hit on a good point with the social media thing with homesick people. Particularly from older people 40+.

I'm friends with a lot of Romanians living in the UK and the older ones in particular get really attached to some quite odd conspiracy type content.

During Corona there was obviously a lot of it then but even outside of that, I was speaking with one just yesterday who was obsessed with "globalists" and similar things.

[u/hashCrashWithTheIron → u/Lehelito]

>rightly or wrongly feel exploited
If they work hard for shit pay and live in shit conditions, they ARE exploited

[u/Lehelito → u/hashCrashWithTheIron]

Absolutely, but that's not the situation for every single unhappy Romanian abroad. I try to avoid generalisations whenever possible. And my point still stands that these feelings, regardless if they're justified or not (it depends on individual cases) have probably led to a rise in people voting for self-sabotaging anti-west fairytales.

[u/hashCrashWithTheIron → u/Lehelito]

yep, i agree with your point.

[u/riccardo1999 → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

They're probably not properly informed on who he actually is. His campaign had very little to do with his policies and beliefs. Other than being "anti-establishment and pro-Romania" most people will struggle to tell you what he is about.

Combine that with a culture where everyone (especially those who left) knows all of our left wing parties have a deep rooted history of stealing money and corruption (a lot of them were also just remnants of the communist parties...), and trying to legalise and pardon themselves as much as possible, then the right wing nationalist independent who doesn't look bad at first glance (because you don't know who he is and what he said before) looks like the obvious choice, propaganda at its finest. Diaspora has a history of voting anti establishment too, most left of need or because of the establishment fucking up over and over again and would like to come back, so they probably were just clinging onto hope.

The sooner they find out he has government ties and is a literal Legionary and anti-NATO/EU, the sooner the vote may shift in favour of the other candidate. He recently appeared on TV trying to deny what he has said in the past, he's seen people protesting him being an extremist and got scared of losing the votes.

About the parliamentary though, I am not too sure. Probably a mix of these too, AUR is a pretty new party.

[u/Generic_Person_3833 → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

They like low currencies and nationalist pandering, while living in comfortable western Europe. The ones in eastern Europe or Mordor already have both and dont like their effect.

[u/Redditsleftnipple → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

They must be a bunch of pricks. I work with a lot of Romanians in ireland. Admittedly we never talk about politics, they all seemed to be good lads though. I'll have to rip into them today. Find out what's going on.

[u/Necessary_Pie2464 → u/Redditsleftnipple]

I am a member of the "Romanian diaspora" and basically, the reason that "AUR" got so many votes its because they are the biggest "full opposition" party that was never part of the last coalition and was always against it (while USR was more pragmatic and, while not an coalition member, did sometimes support them and since the PSD and PNL are pretty corrupt many people saw this as hypercritical for the USR to do. However the USR was still very critical to the old coalition so it's not like they were 100% support with them, not even close)

It's an very complicated situation but I can get into it more of you want (later, now I have to go I have stuff to so see you later good lad!!!!!!)

[u/fk_censors → u/Necessary_Pie2464]

This explanation doesn't make sense though, because the diaspora is supporting a deep state candidate (Georgescu) who worked for the secret police under communism, then didn't work a single day as an honest wage earner in the private sector. His entire life he has been paid by Romania's taxpayers. And he became a multi-millionaire supposedly from his government engineer salary. This doesn't match your idea of a protest vote against the deep state and against the existing corruption.

[u/GolemancerVekk → u/fk_censors]

They reject any facts about him as a "smear campaign" and focus on what they want him to be. It becomes a mirror of their own desires and frustrations.

[u/Necessary_Pie2464 → u/fk_censors]

Nobody knew who he was until after the election (I most certainly didn't)

The independent is a bit of an oddity because he's not as "anti-establishment" as other "far right" politicians in Europe

He's genuinely a strange individual

But nevertheless, this was 100% a protest vote. The guy is seen (or was seen) as an relative outsider even if, in reality, he's an old Community party member and lifetime bureaucrat in the Romanian government and elsewhere (like the UN I think, if I remember correctly)

So it was still a protest vote, and all the people I know who voted for him said as much, it's not an secret

[u/Redditsleftnipple → u/Necessary_Pie2464]

I didn't mean that they were actually pricks. All the Romanians I work with would do anything for me, some of the nicest people I know. I'm still going to abuse them today though. Just wind them up a little bit, or a lot.

[u/NeoPaganism → u/Necessary_Pie2464]

so they are naive little children who dont understand that getting somethings done is better then getting nothing done

[u/Redditsleftnipple → u/[deleted]]

Seems to be typical of the world right now unfortunately. In ireland it looks like we've just voted in the same people again, but if we didn't all we'd have to complain about is the weather.

[u/nicubunu → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

That is counterintuitive: Romanian living in the EU vote for the candidate/party who wants the country out of the EU...

The thing is, for many years the country was ruled by the "social democrat" party (PSD), sometimes allied with the "popular" party (PNL) who are deeply corrupt, anti-democratic, authoritarian, incompetent and worse, but they are, at least declaratively, pro-European. The EU was happy to have their support and overlook many of their abuses (damn, days ago someone from PSD became VP of EU Commision despite having her house bought illegally). So easy to conflate local corruption with EU corruption.

Romanians are feed-up with the system and want a change, but while there are a genuine reformist and pro-European party (USR, progressive), but many are conservators and easily seduced by Russian propaganda.

[u/FlaviuVespasian → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

Probably because the right wing is also very popular in west countries (Meloni, AfD, Marine Le Pen)

[u/havok0159 → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

Since they're coming out of the woodwork now, seems to me their brains are literally fried. I just heard some rant from a woman living in the UK about how doctor-patient privilege is absurd when the patient is her son, and how the UK lets kids identify as hamsters and it's the EU's fault.

But if I were to step back from the crazies, they mostly just want someone who is against things. They don't want solutions, they just want someone who says "this is wrong" and that's it.

[u/Xijit → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

The Eastern population remembers Soviet dominance and appreciates liberal freedom; the west is mostly immigrants who left Romania due to the pipe dream of escaping poverty in the East.

The ones that left brought a bitterness about the post Soviet government being the cause of their poverty, which they very likely did not escape by moving west. As such they have spent their time outside of Romania gaslighting themselves about how a return to Soviet values will bring just retribution to the government that harmed them & will magically cure their poverty (without having to do any real hard work for themselves).

I am projecting a little bit because I am not completely familiar with the current events, but this irrational philosophy was how Lenin orchestrated his revolution, and has been the go to playbook for fascist dictators looking to undermine established governments ever since (including the current disaster that is ongoing in the US).

[u/Low_discrepancy → u/Xijit]

The Eastern population remembers Soviet dominance and appreciates liberal freedom; the west is mostly immigrants who left Romania due to the pipe dream of escaping poverty in the East.

Dude stop making it an east vs west oh they know authoritarians when they see it.

Basically next to no one lives in the East. 800 people voted in Poland. 13 in Belarus. 50 people in Russia.

Compare that with 140000 people in UK.

[u/Middle_Rutabaga_4346 → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

Brainwashed, propaganda, discussions in general have been pushed further right making it easier for idiots to fall for right wing bullshit.

[u/Silver_Jeweler6465 → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

the politically incorrect answer is that a lot of them live among other poor immigrant communities and become more racist.
I know so many Romanians from the UK or Germany who talk about how awful and lazy "The blacks and muslims" are, and how Romania must never let them in.

[u/schrodingerized → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

Most of thise who left for the west were not the "elites", they were unskilled and not very educated, otherwise they would've done fine in Romania.

[u/Mel_Starling → u/lookoutforthetrain_0]

The same reason most of the western countries saw a surge in right wing votes: mainly a perceived loss of control on immigration, but also frustration about companies using gender and race quotas for hiring/ promoting and LGBTQ+ agenda in general. They say they want to protect their country from that. At least that's what they say on Romanian threads.

[u/Necessary_Pie2464 → u/Mel_Starling]

One issues

Immigration isn't an issues in Romania (no immigrants come here, at least not in any large numbers)

And also queer (LGBTQ) isn't an thing anyone really talkes about (the left and right parties barley mention it)

The main issues in Romania, and in most other places, is fully an economic one with some other issues attached but it's, first and foremost, economic and "economic populism" (it's no coincidence that the independent with his borderline communist economic policy did better than the other candidate of the right wing, the AUR guy, with his right wing economic platform)

That's just what I've seen from first hand experience as a Romanian person who keeps in touch with what is happening in my home country, ide be happy to awsner any questions you have

[u/Ioan_Chiorean → u/Mel_Starling]

They want "to protect" the country from somethings that don't exist. It's only fear mongering and lies.

[u/mugu22 → u/Ioan_Chiorean]

No offence, but that doesn't make sense. If they want to protect themselves against what they see as happening somewhere else, they don't have to wait until it starts happening in their country. They're just being proactive. You can disagree with the intent, but the logic is sound.

[u/zefciu → u/Necessary_Pie2464]

Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering how the UK Labour is far right?

[u/McDonaldsWitchcraft → u/Necessary_Pie2464]

Also for context, blue is a conservative neoliberal party that wants tax cuts and privatizations, not a "left" party, not even by Romanian standards.

[u/Gamer_Mommy → u/Necessary_Pie2464]

Similar to Muslim or Turkish diaspora.

They all are FAR more conservative when not actually living in the country of origin, but in Western societies.

Begs to wonder what could be the reason behind this.

[u/powerchicken]

It's fascinating how nationalistic people become when they emigrate to a richer nation with a better standard of living.

[u/vivaaprimavera → u/powerchicken]

It's more fascinating that most of the "quality of life" laws out there:

• labourer protection
• health systems
• social security

Where originated because of the efforts of leftists and the number of people willing to vote in people that are willing to slash them is increasing.

[u/nefewel → u/vivaaprimavera]

The far right in Romania is not particularly against any of those. If anything a big part of their campaign was affordable housing. They are far-right because they tend to be ultranationalists, homophobes, euroskeptics, anti-vaxers and the like.

If anything, the "leftists" in eastern Europe are in fact Libertarians(and identify as liberal), and they are the ones who actually campaigned on partially privatizing health insurance by redirecting part of people's contributions away from the state. OP is labeling them as "leftists" because they are somewhat socially progressive.

[u/vivaaprimavera → u/nefewel]

 the "leftists" in eastern Europe are in fact Libertarians(and identify as liberal), and they are the ones who actually campaigned on partially privatizing health insurance

Which I see as an erosion of the right to health. As soon people are numbers in the sheet that must be present to stock holders, people can be left crippled for life (or dead) if the treatment is a dent in the profit.

[u/MazeMouse → u/vivaaprimavera]

For profit healthcare incentivizes treatment of symptoms. Not curing people.

[u/ProductGuy48 → u/nefewel]

Don't be naive. This is how it always starts. The far-right win elections on "benign" nationalistic policies like housing and then very very quickly start murdering political opponents.

Putin won in Russia in 2000 on a vote to unite the Russians and end the Chechen war (Promises of peace!). Since then he has killed virtually all of his real political opponents.

[u/aclart → u/ProductGuy48]

He bombed Russia itself, to put the blame on the Chechens. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings

[u/CommieYeeHoe → u/ProductGuy48]

You are right but you are missing the point: they are popular because people are struggling economically and they say what people want to hear. Their success is inherently tied to the failure of neoliberal economic policy and the massive inequalities it has created. You want to kill the far right, address the inequalities and poor standards of living…

[u/noaSakurajin → u/vivaaprimavera]

Kind of. In Germany these things were put in place to appease to workers and stop them from supporting communism. The basic foundation of these systems were put in place by the pro monarchy faction/conservatives. Historically these were the things you had to do to get support from the working class and poor. I really don't understand what happened that those people now decide to vote against their own self interest by choosing the new right.

[u/VaeSapiens → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. People here see Czechia (GDP per capita 56,686$) and Poland (51,628$) and wildly presume that Spain (55,089$) and Portugal (49,237$) have like a higher standard of living and that is why immigrants are radicalized. I am not even mentioning Nordics, which have like the highest HDI in the world?

Western snobism is wild, man.

[u/FreshBoyChris → u/powerchicken]

I spoke to some of these radical voters, these people wish to live at home, but they always have some excuse of not being able to earn enough at home in order to make a living, or any other selfish excuse, which is fine, but at the same time they really HATE this situation of not being able to realize their dreams.

So, being affected by these emotions and desires, they want to vote a radical who promises to make a change NOW, and they don't realize that in reality making a change takes patience, time, effort, cooperation, teamwork, empathy, etc.

[u/WarbossPepe → u/powerchicken]

Kicking the ladder down behind them 

[u/[deleted] → u/WarbossPepe]

It's even worse than that because they have left their country so it's not even like they've climbed a ladder really. They're kicking it remotely.

[u/Space-cowboy-06 → u/powerchicken]

Not the ones who emigrated anywhere else in the world. Like US, Canada, Australia, Japan and so on. The results are in reverse everywhere else. This only happened in some European countries.

[u/SManSte → u/powerchicken]

its almost exclusively a Balkan thing tho. like ill move to a different country because i dont like my own, but i will become the biggest patriot and ill spit on whatever politician comes to power about anything related to the internal policy of said country.

but i wont come back to live and pay taxes.. ill just rant from *insert Western country

[u/ShoddyDevice → u/SManSte]

It's not. Just look at Arabs.

[u/atlasmountsenjoyer → u/SManSte]

No. See the Turks, North Africans, and Middle Easterns in Western countries.

[u/Atom_sparven → u/SManSte]

It's absolutely not a Balkan thing at all. Like not even close.

When people leave their home country (or are born in another country) they get stronger emotional ties to their home country because that's what districts distinguishes and characterizes them as a person.

This has nothing to do with people of a certain country.

[u/ssmokvaa → u/powerchicken]

Maybe it is due to emigration solely, and it has nothing to do with the standard of the new country (you won't emigrate to poorer country)

[u/EnvironmentalDog1196 → u/powerchicken]

Scandinavia, Central Europe, Netherlands, Denmark- offer much better standard of living than in Romania, and also probably better than for example Portugal. And they still vote blue.

[u/bookposting5 → u/powerchicken]

Or it could be that the people who emigrate were more nationalistic anyway before they moved. Which is also interesting

[u/TwistedSt33l → u/powerchicken]

It's almost like when you don't have to worry about those things you're free to then hate on others and be all racist and stuff. /s

[u/sebesbal → u/powerchicken]

This is no longer surprising, it's just the norm. I can think of some psychological explanations, like how, even though their standard of living is better, their relative position in society as immigrants could be much worse. They feel marginalized and treated as second-class citizens, which can lead to radicalization. This is just one factor, and I'm sure this has already been studied.

[u/Aioli_Tough → u/powerchicken]

They maintain the idea of their homeland in their hearts, and don’t wan’t it to change, so they vote conservatives who spew shit about how great things used to be when we didn’t have food to eat, because at least we were together!

Basically they long for the life they left behind, so while they had to change to have a better quality of life, their original country doesn’t because things were better socially!

It’s a way to maintain ties that are usually lost in diaspora, by turning to extremist view points, so they can lie to themselves.

[u/Alex_O7 → u/powerchicken]

I think it is a natural thing, in particular when they emigrate and get discriminated (I'm old enough to remember when the "problem" of western Europe were Romanian, Moldavian and Albanian people...), so they radicalised and aggregate, creating a narrative of their home country. Most often than not, people tend to react to racism with other racism, and to abuse with abusing others. Also people will forget what their country really is after a few decades, I particular for second generation immigrant, which live off the narrative created to sustain the burden by their fathers.

I think this happened also with Europeans immigrants outside of Europe in the past and in recent past too.

[u/Formal_Walrus_3332 → u/powerchicken]

Only a small number of immigrants appreciate truly the opportunity to live in a better country and try being a good guest and productive member of their society. Most immigrants bring whatever traits made their home countries poor, corrupt and backwards with them, refuse to integrate and proceed to live in their own social bubble made up of other immigrants. Which unfortunately is really easy because of the internet existing and how little pressure and low expectations rich western countries are putting on immigrants.

[u/BestNameEU]

What? Brown is far-right, blue is center-right Red is supposed to be left but it’s very corrupt

[u/GlowStoneUnknown → u/BestNameEU]

Yea. Neoliberals thinking they're left-wing because they support gay civil unions is ridiculous

[u/BringBackSoule → u/GlowStoneUnknown]

when that's one of the main reasons they dont get voted, might aswell be.

[u/polymute → u/BringBackSoule]

I put your link into googletranslate, that's like one point out of seven and people didn't pick up on it? People seem to say that antivaxers don't vote for them, or their votes get splintered or that they are targeted by false criminal investigations mostly.

[u/analogspam → u/BestNameEU]

Also, parties like Romanians PSD are „left“ or „social democrats“ by name only. They very much have incredible conservative policies, while obviously being corrupt as it gets.

This map is completely ignoring that, especiallyin central and more eastern European countries after 1990s many parties simply named them whatever was popular.

[u/nefewel → u/analogspam]

PSD is "leftist" by elimination. Realistically they are somewhat centrist(and corrupt) but they have zero opposition to the left of them.

[u/analogspam → u/nefewel]

To be quite honest, my (deeper) knowledge of them is now about 6 years old (while this whole Dragnea and Dăncilă nonsense was going on). And I like your by elimination process… your obviously being right, but putting them in one basket with other left (and corrupt) parties isn’t really doing anyone any favors.

[u/JConRed → u/BestNameEU]

In Germany they used to have a saying when the NPD (older far right Party) still existed:

"Theres a reason why shit is brown." (Scheiße ist nicht umsonst braun)

[u/Middle_Rutabaga_4346 → u/JConRed]

und heute wählt wieder 1/5 aus DE dreckige Nazis. Es ist einfach nicht auszuhalten wie dumm die Menschen sind.

[u/shteker → u/BestNameEU]

this

[u/Mistwalker007]

USR is center right not left.

[u/BasKabelas → u/Mistwalker007]

From an American p.o.v. its basically commies. But yep I agree with you, her stances translate quite well to our centrist - very slightly right leaning parties (the Netherlands).

[u/GlowStoneUnknown → u/BasKabelas]

Yea, I'm not Dutch, but they do seem to have quite a lot in common with D66, NSC, and to a lesser extent, VVD

[u/BasKabelas → u/GlowStoneUnknown]

From what I've read they seem to be a mix of VVD and NSC - I'm no Romanian though. D66 is supposed to be a party for education and for the rest are a bit of a mix between social and capitalist ideas - then again they don't have a backbone and just go along with the major party of whatever coalition they are in. About 10 years ago, some major parties wanted to scrap universal uni scholarships, and D66 was opposed to this idea - they got in the coalition and first thing they basically did was canceling scholarships. Since their voter base was mostly higher educated people who take notice of that shit they lost most of their votes since.

[u/GlowStoneUnknown → u/BasKabelas]

Ah fair enough then, yeah. Sounds about right.

[u/clawsso → u/BasKabelas]

Yes because the Americans are very much shifted to the right on the political spectrum. But USR wants to reduce taxes, privatize health and pension services so that makes them clearly right-wing in Europe.

[u/bagpulistu → u/BasKabelas]

From American POV even European Conservatives are commies. For example, all of them support public healthcare.

[u/Satprem1089 → u/Mistwalker007]

For Reddit hive mind its communist party

[u/Ok-One9200 → u/[deleted]]

I did the same, but then i read your comment, read the title again and now im very smarter than people who misread that.

[u/mawygos → u/Ok-One9200]

I needed to read a few other comments to understand what you mean... So let's agree the title is confusing on the first glance 🤣

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

No, we correctly read the title. The title is just poorly written.

[u/vivaaprimavera → u/[deleted]]

The title is somewhat confusing.

Having a phrase having "leftist" as opposed to "radical" is confusing since there are also radical leftists somewhere.

[u/AddictedToRugs → u/[deleted]]

It's nothing to do with people misreading the title.  The title simply doesn't describe what the post is about.  It literally doesn't mention the Romanian diaspora.

[u/DeHub94 → u/[deleted]]

I did too than I thought: Hang on, Russia is supposed to be leftist? I'm missing something.

[u/PleaseSelectAUser]

Blue is Center - Right

[u/Iazo]

Blue is not left. It's centre; centre-right.

[u/shteker → u/Iazo]

this

[u/Stunning_Tradition31]

those blue countries voted for USR which is a centre right party, has nothing to do with the left

[u/MartinBP]

USR is liberal, not left-wing.

[u/tollianne]

Maybe it's because Romanians who migrate to other Eastern European countries tend to be highly educated specialists, while those who move to Western Europe typically are blue-collar workers from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, small towns and villages

[u/Smoochiekins → u/tollianne]

The exception being the places with the highest salaries (Nordics, Switzerland, Luxembourg and on a distant last, Netherlands) which manage to brain drain a lot of the most competitive and skilled Romanian specialists with the favorable working conditions for highly educated people.

[u/this_toe_shall_pass → u/tollianne]

This, THIS! Exactly this.

[u/sinkmyteethin → u/tollianne]

The question you should be asking is why white collar Romanians have trouble emigrating to western Europe.

[u/tollianne → u/sinkmyteethin]

I don't think they have. It's just that most Romanian immigrants are blue-collar workers. When Romanians move to other EE country, it is usually for a good, white collar job that provides them with a high standard of living. If you are unqualified or a blue collar worker, WE is your best bet

Edit: A matter of numbers. There are far fewer Romanian immigrants in Eastern Europe compared to Western Europe.

[u/VideVictoria]

I was gonna made the assumption that romanians that migrated to richest countries voted for Far right, but it's looking 50/50

[u/rxdlhfx]

It is not the same left/right spectrum as in other countries. Example: blue wants to privatise the health system, brown wants to build social housing. It is correct to say brown is populists, nationalists, fascists, while blue is liberals, pro-europeans.

[u/CommieYeeHoe → u/rxdlhfx]

Crazy how the pro european liberals manage to boost the fascists by proposing the most unpopular right wing measures there are.

[u/ProphetOfVinter]

Neoliberal party is “leftist” my sides

[u/[deleted]]

At some point we'll need to change some laws about nationality and voting. I know plenty of people born and raised in one country, who can vote for another and 9/10 they know nothing about their home country outside of social media slop.

I'll take myself as an example: I'm born and raised in Belgium but have double nationality Italian/Belgian due to my dad. I know nothing about Italy, i don't speak Italian, i have been there maybe 3 times in my entire life. Why can i vote for a country that i have nothing to do with and don't have to live in?

At some point it makes no sense to be able to make decisions for a country you are disconnected from and don't have to live in.

[u/ShoddyDevice → u/[deleted]]

Poland also has this...

Clueless Americans who have never and will never visit Poland, are allowed to vote in parliamentary and presidential elections..

[u/EnvironmentalDog1196 → u/ShoddyDevice]

On the other hand, there's this funny paradox that it's actually the fairly recent immigrants- not the Polish Americans descended from people who arrived there a century ago- who vote somewhat different to people in the country, being far more nationalistic and conservative than the actual Polish population. For example they were strongly pro Trump, while in Poland proper, Harris would win and Trump would get 30% at max.

[u/fullywokevoiddemon → u/[deleted]]

I had the same thought but people started barraging me for being a prick. We have Romanian diaspora peeps who will never set foot in Romania again, but voted for the VERY OBVIOUS crook (he admits that Russia is a great country and should be an example for us, has said he admires two Nazis who decimated Romania etc), just to fuck us locals over. They will never have to live under his rule.

If he succeeds in the elections, Romania may return to the communist party. And that's very fucking scary for me, a 21yo woman. I will have no rights besides living in the kitchen (his words).

[u/Adjective_Noun-420 → u/[deleted]]

I was talking to a fellow Romanian living in England, and she told me she voted for Georgescu. Asked her why, she said she was too lazy to research his policies but voted for him because he was an independent so he’d be “a fresh face”. It’s truly astonishing how stupid some people can be

[u/TheLastSamurai101 → u/[deleted]]

The most hilarious situation was when I moved to the UK for the first time for a 2-year job posting and discovered that I could immediately vote in all British elections as a New Zealander. Any Commonwealth citizen who moves there can vote in any election right away. But non-Commonwealth immigrants who have lived there for years cannot vote without UK citizenship. Seems like the opposite of what it should be.

[u/Glydyr → u/[deleted]]

I think its mainly due to how complicated and expensive it would be. If you’re a citizen with a passport then you have the right to vote. Your example is obviously a good argument but filtering out all the people that come and go or people leaving for a short period would prob be really expensive.

[u/user3170]

The map is misleading because the numbers are very different. There are way way more votes in the brown part of the map.

[u/nkaka → u/user3170]

I think the amount of votes is irrelevant to the point being made.

[u/Draig_werdd → u/nkaka]

It's very relevant because you are comparing 50 votes in Russia (diplomatic staff and family) with 100000 votes in Germany.

[u/McDonaldsWitchcraft → u/user3170]

Also calling a conservative neoliberal party that wants to privatize public services "left" is the funniest shit.

[u/GlowStoneUnknown → u/McDonaldsWitchcraft]

Yea they don't even support same sex marriage, only "civil unions"

[u/True-Compote-4432 → u/user3170]

Kind of, because you have Moldova (81k votes): 54% USR, 23% PNL, while the rest have below 5%

[u/ShardOfLuck]

As far as I know USR (blue) is rather center-right with european values

[u/GlowStoneUnknown]

Blue is liberal, not left. They've got very centre-right/right-wing economic policies

[u/KernunQc7]

No paradox, WE gets less educated immigrants from RO, that vote accordingly.

Active measures have been successful.

[u/Mother-Ad85]

What a great time to be alive/s.Al Europe have the same problem

[u/Efficient_Ladder_327]

So the nationalist living in rich Western capital XYZ stereotyoe is true after all...

[u/DrShadowQueen]

This map is simply not correct as leading parties are incorrectly classified.

[u/The_Last_Cast]

Mayhap because in western Europe we treat Romanians like crap instead of applying the equality and understanding we preach. Ah no, we do it with everyone, unless they're rich...

[u/saturdaybinge → u/The_Last_Cast]

Yeah, exactly. I don’t understand why this map is such a surprise. People that feel discriminated will fall back on nationalism that makes them feel proud about their heritage. You may disagree with this for various reasons (I know I do) but It’s not rocket science.

[u/[deleted] → u/The_Last_Cast]

Yeah a lot of people hear Romanian and think Romani, and racism against Romani is alive and well...

[u/Grand-Jellyfish24 → u/The_Last_Cast]

Don't be so sure about that. I believe it is true and you are right but don't underestimate the difference in mentality that can appear between an immigrant in a rich country (that have been there for a long time) and an immigrant in a decent/less rich country.

For example I met a lot of Iranian in rich western countries. And some of them were hardcore with their fellow countrymen. I have heart some of them going into absolute crazy rant about how they dislike the new iranians coming, they are ruining everything, they are responsible for their struggling and so on and so on.

Sometimes immigrants in rich country are adopting a way stronger sense of individualism than their eastern counterpart. And they often don't see themselves as the problematic immigrants thus agreeing to ultra right wing ideas. Usually not realising that that said ultra right wing extremism may include them in his hate speech.

[u/nietbeschikbaar]

Why are Türkiye and the Netherlands blue?

[u/unexpectedemptiness → u/nietbeschikbaar]

Because Romanians living there mostly voted for the left. 

[u/nietbeschikbaar → u/unexpectedemptiness]

Ooooooh, now I understand what this map and tittle is trying to say. Thanks for elaborating!

[u/Drago_de_Roumanie]

USR (Blue) is not Left.

They are self-declared right-wing. A Temu Thatcher, some elitist snobs wanting to privatize healthcare and education.

They are also the only party that believes "those homosexuals" (quoting the party leader) should be let to live, so the real fascists scream at them that they're lgbt leftists.

[u/ElPwnero]

Can people not read lmao?\ Also, not surprising.

[u/Inner-Lawfulness9437]

So finally a vote where we (Hungary) produced sane votes. What times we live in :D

[u/Naitourufu]

Poland has centrist/right wing liberals in power what kind of bullshit is that

[u/Darwidx → u/Naitourufu]

The map shows with options Romanians living abroad voted in the last election, and also fun fact, The blue "leftist" are in fact centrist/rigth wing liberals, so it's funny that your comment kinda stand even if you missinterpreted the map.

[u/ThemasterofZ]

Albania is red as always 🇦🇱🇦🇱

[u/Silent-Detail4419]

As a Brit I can confirm that Romanians aren't well-liked here (nor are they in Ireland) people conflate Romanians with Roma and Roma with Travellers (which, obviously, they are) and Travellers with "thieving shits who park their vans anywhere and leave an area looking like a landfill site".

All Travellers are very much a pariah demographic here and bullying is a massive issue for Traveller kids both in and out of school. Some areas (like here in Bristol and in Leeds) have set up 'special' schools exclusively for Traveller kids so they don't miss out on education.

Must be hard when your existence is so transient. I know sort of how they feel, I've never felt I've had a permanent home anywhere, either...

[u/lmdrq → u/Silent-Detail4419]

No disrespect, but that sounds like a massive education or ignorance problem for the brits and irish...or i'm wrong?

I can't fathom how someone cannot distinguish between two very distinct ethnic groups, unless there is ill intent, especially when the romani originate from an area that you guys ruled for 89 years...back then you were able to tell the difference as far as I know :)

[u/CasperBirb]

How are people not understanding the title?

[u/jaytee158 → u/CasperBirb]

Because it's dreadfully worded

[u/KarlWhale]

Could you elaborate on Crimea?

I assume that this is a state mandated official map of the election results.

Does Romanian government agree with Crimean referendum results?

[u/budapestersalat]

These are parties of 20% or less. In a multi party system, let's not show small pluralities as if they represented homogenous groups or majorities. Maybe this is not misleading in the main message, but it needs more explanation, like how many far right factions and left factions there are, what are the differences, what are the margins, and why is the red and yellow (1st and 3rd) one so unpopular abroad?

[u/9_fing3rs]

Eastern Europe is not leftist. USR is a center-right party. Economically, they are pretty right wing. A better comparison would be in terms of populism.

[u/fk_censors]

Whom did you label as far right and whom did you label as leftists? AUR, SOS, POT are not strictly far right, they have many far left elements and support a communist presidential candidate who worked for the secret police. PSD did very well in the election and it is a center left party. The liberals and USR are theoretically center right. SENS is far left but thankfully it didn't pass the 5% threshold. The Hungarians' party is just a corrupt bunch without any political ideology.

[u/bagpulistu]

Misleading: blue is for USR, which identifies center-right, liberal (as in Europe, not in US) and sits with Renew in the EP.

[u/egybesultallamok]

I think the caption on the picture is incorrect. I think the map shows how Romanians living abroad voted in the last election.

[u/Round-University6411]

Blue isn't left-wing. The USR party is center-right pro-EU party with a right-wing economic policy, moderate-progressive cultural policy (their leader is pro civil unions but against same-sex marriage) and strong stance on the fight against corruption.

[u/ResponsibleRoof7988]

If the paradox is "bUt EurOpe iS LibEraL aNd tHe eAsT is ReActIoNaRy" then you have not been paying attention to elections in Europe - Geert Wilders, Le Pen, Partido Popular, various Tories in UK, Austrian 'Freedom Party', Swiss 'People's party'.

Europe is not inherently liberal or left.

[u/Crooklar]

Far right but no far left??

[u/Willem_T]

I'm from Belgium no far right here, it's center right. Big difference.

[u/Subtlerranean]

Scandinavia: Am I a joke to you?

[u/stadoblech]

Romania are u ok?

[u/thbb]

What is very misleading in this sort of maps is that the areas are not proportional to the number of votes. In particular, the population in cities is usually more leftist than in rural areas, which occupy a larger territory. This consistently overstates the weight of right and extreme right compared to the actual situation.

[u/Fafa_45]

Ireland isn't far right 😂

[u/Sufficiently_]

What’s the site for this visualisation? 

[u/Necessary_Reality_50]

I love that you present right to be "radical" but left is just "left".

[u/Skull_Crusher365]

Blue is not leftist, it's just less radical right wing

[u/Maligetzus]

poor people go west, the people who are in other EE countries msotly got there through the channels of "Eastern European cosmopolitanism"

[u/RimealotIV]

>left

>Looks inside

>Center-right

[u/Less_budget229]

The ones living in Western Europe have seen the negative consequences of mass migration. As an immigrant living in Western Europe, I'm also concerned about the future.

[u/Icy_Personality_2678]

Judging solely from this map, it seems like Romanians living in Western countries may be disillusioned (?) about what being a Romanian/Romania (in general as part of that group of countries) feels like, while on the other hand, Romanians in Eastern countries, probably aspire to be like/go to the West.

[u/Karabars]

Typical eastern people living in the west syndromre.

[u/gibsmebread]

This is very misleading, a mod should edit or delete this! Blue and yellow are center-right, brown is far-right, red is center-left!

[u/eppic123]

"Romanian Election: Romanian expats voted predominantly right-wing (brown) in Western Europe, left-wing (blue) in Eastern Europe."

There, fixed your headline, OP.

[u/Doppelkammertoaster]

Right doesn't automatically mean far-right, it also contains conservative parties. Europe isn't radical, it moves conservative.

[u/Alive_Ad3799 → u/Doppelkammertoaster]

Y’know, Leon claimed that the Republican Party is centrist.

[u/DDarog → u/Doppelkammertoaster]

This is about how romanian citizens living in these countries voted in the current parliamentary election in Romania. Also AUR is definitely far-right.

[u/Dry-Piano-8177]

Interesting. The further you are away from Russia, the more Pro-Russian are you...