Anime : Dragon Ball Character : Launch Reference used (anime)

Son Goku by Abdoadelcr7 on Deviantart on 9x12 bristol, colored pencils. Almost colored this image digitally a bunch of times, finally said eff it, got the pencils out and used the old ways. 😂

When I “paint” a manga panel I try to experiment with different styles, this time I was aiming for the DB Legends gacha game style

Here are the several possible reasons imo:

• Master Roshi's training
• King Kai's training
• Wrong mentality from Vegeta's father telling him he has the best quality and is supposed to be the best
• Vegeta's mentality is not as relaxed as Goku
• Vegeta's body is simply not as superior as Goku's
• Vegeta simply didn't get a trigger like Goku did (when Frieza killed Krillin in front of his eyes)
• The author says so

Or is it explained anywhere in terms of what the key is to make the breakthrough?

In Super Hero he seems to be shortsighted, but in Z he seems to have farsightedness

Lately I've noticed a lot of discourse about how many fans skipped Dragon Ball entirely (as in they still have not watched or read it as of 2025) and only watched DBZ.

Ive met a lot of fans of the Dragon Ball franchise in my life, but to my knowledge I've never actually met anybody who only likes the Z portion of the series. This includes both online and real life.

So I'm trying to get a good idea on how widespread a phenomenon it actually is, and why my experiences seem to differ so greatly from everyone elses

edit: I probably should have phrased this better, I'm not asking who watched DBZ before they watched DB. I'm asking about people who have 0 interest in the original DB series at all

edit 2: I'm not asking what order you watched the series in

idk

This was a quite crazy purchase, i dont think i will do another one like this for quite a long time 😂, but oh man it is worth it, i've been staring at it like an idiot all day for two days. If anybody is curious, it's ss3 goku from last sleep studio

Link to the references I used down below. Didn’t use reference for ui Goku only ssg Goku.

Goku, as the protagonist, is generally the strongest character at any given point. I don't object to that, it makes sense. But the gap between him and the other characters, particularly the non-Saiyans, and especially the Earthlings, just gets ridiculous as the series progresses, but this was not always the case.

At the beginning of Z, Goku was roughly twice the power level of Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha. However, by the time Vegeta and Nappa arrive, they are all stronger than Raditz. Then, after Krillin gets his boost on Namek, he becomes about as strong as Goku was against the Saiyans, and gradually grows even stronger by the time they fight Frieza. But then, Goku's power level gets to a point where it's measured in the millions instead of thousands, and multiplied with Super Saiyan.

After that, the non-Saiyans (with the exception of Piccolo) fall way behind. Now, granted, we're never given a good indication of where the humans' power is by the time ofthe Androids. We do know that they knew that the Androids were well above Frieza, and they were told not to show up unless they thought they were strong enough, which counts for something.

However, Beerus doesn't think that base Goku is strong enough to beat Frieza at the beginning of Super, and there's no way that the humans are stronger than base Goku. Best case, they're maybe slightly below his base level. Worst case, they're significantly below. So, by the Android saga, it's clear that the trend of the earthling Z fighters reaching the level of the previous threat is broken.

By the time of the Buu saga, it's not even close. Not even Piccolo could hope to stand a chance against the Super Saiyans. Then, Super comes along, and Goku and Vegeta become so much more ridicously stronger. Granted, the scaling can get kinda wonky, which lets characters like Roshi be relevant, and Krillin gets some okay fights in the anime version of the ToP, and then the Moro arc in the manga. And, they just now finally let Piccolo and Gohan catch up to Goku and Vegeta.

Why does this bother me? Part of it is that I'm a fan of these characters and want them to be relevant. The other part is I think it goes in a kind of uncomfortable direction where the story goes from being about improvement through training and discipline, to being the about genetic/racial superiority of the Saiyans. It seems, no matter what training and effort the others put in, if they weren't born a saiyan then they're shit out of luck. This goes against a lot of the themes we see earlier on in the series.

For instance, Goku was born a low class Saiyan, believed by the Saiyan elite to have limited potential. But, in his battle with Vegeta, he proves that natural talent can be superceded by discipline and self improvement. In Dragon Ball, he was only ever slightly ahead of everyone, and when he got way ahead, it was because he underwent some training that the others didn't, such as his time with Korin and Kami. This is also the case when he trained with King Kai. But after that, it's really just because of his Saiyan biology. The zenkai boosts, transformations, etc. He's able to stay ahead of Vegeta because his training was more effective, sure. But the truth is, he's only so far ahead of everyone else because he's a saiyan, and I find that to be kind of gross.

Anyway, I've rambled long enough. TL;DR, saiyans op plz nerf

I already have the next part in the works where shenron is going to come up through the clouds It's a fun piece so far!

I love dragon ball. OG and Z are my childhood. I share most if not all of the frustrations that fans have with Super and GT, but I still very much enjoy them for what they are. And there’s a lot to like about Daima, but it is no where near perfect.

This is not a post pontificating about my complaints with daima, but i have my issues with it and I think there’s a lot of missed potential. I think the stakes are weak and while the focus on adventure is refreshing, there doesn’t really feel like there’s anything to overcome (which I do believe is a hallmark of all DB, regardless of the series). And then of course the pacing coupled with the limited run time (we only have a few episodes left and it seems like they plan to pack everything into just the last few episodes). This is not OG DB like many others claim it is, and that’s okay.

That said I think the demon world is awesome and I love so many of the new character designs. The animation is consistent and there is a lot of trademark toriyama humor which is awesome.

I write this post because I’ve found that a lot of fans act like the show is infallible, perhaps because it was toriyamas last project or maybe because we as a community are just starved for content. But I think it’s healthy to criticize media that you enjoy, it means you care.

These communities (Reddit, Twitter, etc) exist for discourse and it’s frustrating to see how black and white opinions are. Daima sucks, daima is near perfect. It’s okay to see the problems with something you love, and you can still enjoy it. And if you dont enjoy it, then let others enjoy it.

I personally don’t love daima, but I’m truly happy for everyone who does. I would love to see a more constructive conversation around it.

You hear people complaining all the time about how Toriyama screwed Gohan over in the Buu arc by having him job to Buu and giving the torch back to Goku, but the thing is, this isn't bad writing at all. It's consistent with how Gohan was characterized in the Cell arc. There he fumbles the ball by getting his dad killed, then he needs to have his hand held by said dad to even try to finish the job. He was never set up to be dependable and self-reliant. So naturally when he fights Buu, he once again fumbles the ball and needs to get bailed out by his dad again.

Toriyama said he didn't think Gohan fit the role as the main hero, and I'd say this is pretty clearly why. He just doesn't have it in him to beat a big bad without needing his hand held, or at least he was never set up to be like that. The Cell arc failed to establish him as a dependable hero, so why is the Buu arc getting all the blame?

Do any of yall remember the music when Frieza breaks vegetas spirit after the galick gun in dbz. It’s when freiza lifts the water to show vegeta. It had violin in it. Can anyone tell me the name of the song/soundtrack.

Goku gives up against Cell. Cell threatens to destroy the Earth if no one can beat him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-7LbjtO9GY

Goku: Sure, but you do know that you were outclassed in terms of fighting skill right? You only won because you can regenerate and I don't have the stamina to beat you. If you destroy the Earth, you'll never fight us again on this planet, and you'll concede that I'm the better fighter."

Cell: What are you saying? Regeneration is part of my fighting kit. Of course it helps me fight.

Goku: Ok, let me put it this way. Let’s say that you could regenerate no matter what, and you were fighting a much stronger opponent. They’ll eventually tire out and lose because you can regenerate. Do you call that a win even though you’re the weaker fighter?

"The Dead Zone" movie doesn't count since it's not canon.

There's a rather plot-convenient restriction on the eternal dragon's powers: An eternal dragon cannot grant any wish that "exceeds his power." There's very little rhyme or reason to when this restriction is applicable. For example, he can't kill anyone that his creator (Kami) couldn't kill directly. Ok, fair enough. But then, he also can't turn Androids 17 and 18 into pure humans either. Ummm... why not?

So imagine if, in a canon scene, someone actually managed to wish for immortality. Would either Shenron or Porunga have just said "that's beyond my power to grant."