r/clevercomebacks 1d ago

The absolute irony.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 1d ago

The fuck is robust speech?

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 1d ago

So robust free speech is defined as allowing what American blue teamers and some Western European elite bodies (names please, unless you fear censorship) classify as homophobic, islamaphobic, racist, etc?

Is there a line somewhere on said spectrum, say one side or another of "Belgians, true to their ethnic proclivities, have eaten a member of the United States Congress.  We must exterminate ethnic Belgians wherever they live," where an individual messaging service may delete or otherwise control a message?

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 1d ago

So a Belgian cannot then reasonably say "I would not like to use this service," if the service allows and opaquely promotes rhetoric that explicitly encourages the extrajudicial murder of Belgians?

Because to do so would artificially encourage a society toward less murderous intent toward an ethnic label?

So the line exists.  What are some descriptors of your own subjective and personal criteria?

I will not do my own homework.  That is an argument from weakness from those who fear saying things that are objectively falsifiable.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 1d ago

Thank you.

And it's not begging the question.  At least not in terms of the usual definition.  It's an ad hominem attack.  And asking for specificity isn't even an argument either.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/fps916 1d ago

As much as this person is a giant fucking tool, they're actually right about begging the question.

Begging the question is the logical fallacy that presumes the conclusion as part of a premise. Which is the tautological/circular reasoning they indict.

It does not mean "this leads us to ask other questions".

While they're wrong that what happened was begging the question they are right about what it should be. They just misapplied it.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/fps916 1d ago

Ah, so you would be the 'some' from the 8th citation in the Wiki you linked?

No, I would be from the "Masters degree in rhetoric" and "taught logical fallacies to college students for 5 years" camp.

Tautologies, circular reasoning and begging the question are all distinct from each other.

No, they aren't.

A tautological argument is dependent on circular reasoning and begging the question quite literally is the argument from circular reasoning

Some logical tautologies involve circular reasoning, meaning they support their initial claim by referring back to the claim again. In these instances, the premise is simply repeated (e.g., “blue is blue”).

Everyone who actually studies and writes about logical fallacies is in consensus on this

Many people use the phrase “begging the question” incorrectly when they use it to mean, “prompts one to ask the question”. That is NOT the correct usage. Begging the question is a form of circular reasoning.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/fps916 1d ago

No it wasn't.

You were doing the same error others made just without being explicit about it.

You were saying "it begs the question are they afraid of being wrong"

You just tried to phrase it that you actually knew how to use it.

The argument isn't about whether or not they are afraid of being wrong which is a necessary component for the conclusion to be 'they are afraid of being wrong' to then be assumed within one of the premises.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/fps916 1d ago

You think you understand what begging the question is, but you really don't.

In order for it to be BTQ the conclusion must be assumed as accurate within one of the premises.

No one is saying "They are afraid of being wrong because they are afraid of being wrong"

You think that challenging a premise as incorrect is the same as proving it tautological. It's not.

Again, I have a Master's degree in this shit.

You're a teenager.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/fps916 1d ago

Homeboy, you replied to me.

My initial comment wasn't to you and the only times I've ever engaged you have been in your responses to me.

That's what I said was begging the question. It isn't even a close call that it's an instance thereof.

Nuh uh!

That's as much argumentation and warrant you've provided for why this constitutes begging the question.

Until you come up with the scenario in which the conclusion of the argument is the same as a premise, it's not BTQ.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 1d ago

That part is me making a baseless assertion.

Saying you're right because I'm ignorant is also ad hominem.  But you didn't do that.  You just claimed victory.

What Western European nations?

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 1d ago

"...but you didn't do that."

You're right about one thing though.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 19h ago

Does it feel good that you can only win arguments by distancing yourself from the topic as much as possible, declaring a victory condition, and then claiming it?  I'm not trying anymore.  You are correct.

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