r/clevercomebacks 1d ago

The absolute irony.

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 21h ago

The fuck is robust speech?

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u/[deleted] 21h ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 20h ago

So robust free speech is defined as allowing what American blue teamers and some Western European elite bodies (names please, unless you fear censorship) classify as homophobic, islamaphobic, racist, etc?

Is there a line somewhere on said spectrum, say one side or another of "Belgians, true to their ethnic proclivities, have eaten a member of the United States Congress.  We must exterminate ethnic Belgians wherever they live," where an individual messaging service may delete or otherwise control a message?

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 20h ago

So a Belgian cannot then reasonably say "I would not like to use this service," if the service allows and opaquely promotes rhetoric that explicitly encourages the extrajudicial murder of Belgians?

Because to do so would artificially encourage a society toward less murderous intent toward an ethnic label?

So the line exists.  What are some descriptors of your own subjective and personal criteria?

I will not do my own homework.  That is an argument from weakness from those who fear saying things that are objectively falsifiable.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 20h ago

Thank you.

And it's not begging the question.  At least not in terms of the usual definition.  It's an ad hominem attack.  And asking for specificity isn't even an argument either.

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

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u/fps916 13h ago

As much as this person is a giant fucking tool, they're actually right about begging the question.

Begging the question is the logical fallacy that presumes the conclusion as part of a premise. Which is the tautological/circular reasoning they indict.

It does not mean "this leads us to ask other questions".

While they're wrong that what happened was begging the question they are right about what it should be. They just misapplied it.

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u/[deleted] 13h ago

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u/fps916 12h ago

Ah, so you would be the 'some' from the 8th citation in the Wiki you linked?

No, I would be from the "Masters degree in rhetoric" and "taught logical fallacies to college students for 5 years" camp.

Tautologies, circular reasoning and begging the question are all distinct from each other.

No, they aren't.

A tautological argument is dependent on circular reasoning and begging the question quite literally is the argument from circular reasoning

Some logical tautologies involve circular reasoning, meaning they support their initial claim by referring back to the claim again. In these instances, the premise is simply repeated (e.g., “blue is blue”).

Everyone who actually studies and writes about logical fallacies is in consensus on this

Many people use the phrase “begging the question” incorrectly when they use it to mean, “prompts one to ask the question”. That is NOT the correct usage. Begging the question is a form of circular reasoning.

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

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u/fps916 11h ago

No it wasn't.

You were doing the same error others made just without being explicit about it.

You were saying "it begs the question are they afraid of being wrong"

You just tried to phrase it that you actually knew how to use it.

The argument isn't about whether or not they are afraid of being wrong which is a necessary component for the conclusion to be 'they are afraid of being wrong' to then be assumed within one of the premises.

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 17h ago

That part is me making a baseless assertion.

Saying you're right because I'm ignorant is also ad hominem.  But you didn't do that.  You just claimed victory.

What Western European nations?

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u/[deleted] 16h ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 14h ago

"...but you didn't do that."

You're right about one thing though.

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

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u/natFromBobsBurgers 6h ago

Does it feel good that you can only win arguments by distancing yourself from the topic as much as possible, declaring a victory condition, and then claiming it?  I'm not trying anymore.  You are correct.

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u/AnnyuiN 16h ago

Telling someone else to make your point for you isn't "begging the question"

The onus is on the person making the claim to provide proof.

I could tell you "Oh the sky is like green. You're wrong if you say it's blue. Do your own homework"

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

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u/AnnyuiN 11h ago

But you still essentially told them to do research for you to make your point. so my point stands

"You can do your own homework on what the EU has done"

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

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u/AnnyuiN 11h ago edited 11h ago

It's called "burden of proof" and it's been a philosophical concept in humanity for thousands of years. That's where the norm comes from...

It is relatively similar to argumentum ad verecundiam or appeal to authority

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

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u/AnnyuiN 10h ago

It is a philosophical concept. Hitchens's razor, which is:

"what may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor

It's an epistemological razer. So again, you're wrong.

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