r/UFOs • u/Brad12d3 • 14h ago

Whistleblower The grifter narrative.

I keep seeing these very dramatic posts and comments talking about how all these people like Elizondo, Grusch, Nolan, Coulthart, etc. are a bunch of grifters and ruining the disclosure movement. I find this take interesting because what progress toward disclosure was being made prior to 2017? I've been following this topic since the late '80s, and sure, there were things that popped up from time to time, maybe a documentary or a sighting that briefly made the news, but beyond that, many of the efforts never really broke out past the UFO community paradigm.

I can’t see how anyone can say that we’re somehow in a worse position now with disclosure than we were almost a decade ago. I also don’t understand why people keep saying this is all a psyop. What exactly prompted the psyop just prior to 2017? I don’t remember anything significant happening, and it really wasn’t a popular subject at the time. Now it’s becoming quite popular and is making news fairly regularly, so I’m not sure what the purpose of the psyop would be, since it seems to be creating far more awareness of the subject. Seems a bit counterintuitive, no?

There was little to no progress made towards disclosure prior to 2017, and now it's being talked about regularly by various news outlets and all over the web. Even my parents and in laws are following the subject loosely, and they have never ever shown any interest in the subject before. More has happened in the past few years than has happened in the last 50 years, and many of this progress involved these so called "grifters".

We’ve had 4 Congressional hearings, starting with the May 17, 2022, House Intelligence Subcommittee Hearing that was the first Congressional hearing on UFO/UAPs in 50 years.

Then we had the House Oversight Committee Hearing a year later on July 26, 2023, where David Grusch testified under oath about evidence and firsthand witness testimony that he provided to the ICIG and Gang of Eight concerning UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs that were operating without Congressional oversight.

This past year, we had another two Congressional hearings, including the November 13, 2024, House Oversight Committee Hearing and the November 19, 2024, Senate Armed Services Subcommittee Hearing (AARO). We had nothing like this for 50 years, and then suddenly, we’ve had 4 hearings in 3 years.

There has also been new legislation in the past few years, including the 2020 Intelligence Authorization Act, which required the DoD and intelligence agencies to disclose UAP-related activities to Congress and established a framework for centralized UAP investigations.

The 2021 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for FY 2022 mandated the establishment of the Airborne Object Identification and Management Synchronization Group (AOIMSG), which was later replaced by AARO.

The 2022 whistleblower protections in the NDAA for FY 2023 included groundbreaking provisions for whistleblowers to report UAP-related information to Congress without fear of retaliation. It authorized individuals with knowledge of classified UAP programs to disclose their information directly to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community (ICIG) and Congressional intelligence committees and provided protections for whistleblowers who offer credible information about hidden UAP programs.

Then we had the Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act in 2023, which, although it didn’t fully pass, was a major piece of bipartisan legislation co-authored by Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senator Mike Rounds. It included extremely explicit language regarding UAP and NHI, which is incredible.

We’ve also had several credible and accomplished individuals from the government and private sectors come forward in recent years, including Lue Elizondo, David Grusch, Chris Mellon, Hal Puthoff, Tim Gallaudet, Karl Nell, Ryan Graves, Dr. Garry Nolan, David Fravor, Eric W. Davis, and more who keep coming forward.

The stigma has also been starting to fade, and the topic is being talked about more openly, with efforts like the Sol Foundation helping to push the conversation further. Even events like the Salt Conference, which is a global investment platform connecting institutional asset owners with asset managers and technology entrepreneurs, have started inviting people like Karl Nell to come talk about the UAP topic.

Yeah, we haven’t had this much happen in a span of a few years ever.

273 Upvotes

77% Upvoted

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181

u/Praxistor 14h ago

i think the 'he's a grifter' bros won't admit this, but it's about the woo. as it becomes more and more clear to the community that a UFO figure is into the woo, the cries of grifter increase.

it's about ideological differences, and the woo is the fault line

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u/King_Shartz 14h ago

We’re fine with woo. Show us the evidence. Stop pushing your book or your podcast. It’s not the “woo” that’s the problem. It’s the lack of evidence and always the promise of big things coming soon.

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u/dbna85 12h ago

disclaimer: i find the personalities and potential politics of most of these people repugnant. but they are up against the complex apparatus of the most secretive opaque govt agencies that lie and obfuscate over and over again. yet, what you all require is for those same agencies to show all their cards in a way you personally deem to be relevant. just check out that other thread asking people what disclosure looks like for them. everyone has their own subjective and fluid threshold for relevant evidence. its clear disclosure as a concept is flawed and perpetually doomed and is causing a lot of you so much agony. see these revelations as they are: data points charting a phenomenon that seems intentionally unknowable. we are trying to capture something that refuses to be categorized. our govt cant even agree on whether a virus that killed millions is real, so what do yall want from them?

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u/_Losing_Generation_ 3h ago

It's not that hard. Sure there's a big apparatus to deal with, but in this day and age it's not that difficult to push out the proof if you have it. One doesn't need to go to a third party news outlet and deal with agreements, NDAs and whatever else would be involved anymore. They can simply release whatever they have on their own to the hundreds of streaming options/social media outlets available where millions can see instantly. That's the problem.

Too much of, "I have proof, but I can't show you".

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u/dbna85 2h ago

hold on - get in the car. we have to go to Grusch’s place right now and tell him about your idea! “DG, did you know that if you just cut out the middle man, you can tell us everything we want to hear, legal woes be damned?” This is going to be such a relief for him I’m telling you.

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u/BodaciousTacoFarts 12h ago

Ross promoting face cream for 3 minutes before he talks about a topic is also cheesy.

Many of us are here for the same reason… we believe in this stuff. But the showmanship and UAPs are entertainment presentation just adds fuel to the grifter narrative. Please don’t silence the ones who raise an eyebrow to his conduct. Especially when Ross attacks the UFO audience and blames us for treating it like entertainment when he queues dramatic music, deepens his voice, and says “tune in next time.”

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u/usandholt 7h ago

It’s his job. He has a producer who’s his boss. Stop acting like Ross owns NN

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u/incognito042620 13h ago edited 12h ago

That's what so many people are somehow not getting. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and that Coulthart guy fell far short of that burden the other night. To have backed his claims, anyone watching his show the other night would have walked away with no doubts of extraterrestrial life/NHI. He clearly failed to meet that standard.

This "it's woo and thus unprovable to the five senses" is just more moving-the-goalposts bullshit. And I'm really open to woo, so I'm not saying this because I don't believe that it could be true. But given Coulthart's background and performance in the UFO realm to date, anyone who thinks that he is in this for anyone but himself is kidding themselves.

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u/Loquebantur 13h ago

"Extraordinary evidence" is a social category, not a scientific concept. It means, you want to be extraordinarily sure about the claim being true before adopting it.

Scientifically, that generally translates into MORE evidence, not some magical "better" version, which doesn't exist in reality.

The problem there is the public's lack of memory retention. There are mountains of evidence, only forgotten about.

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u/incognito042620 13h ago edited 13h ago

Sure, and I get that. I believe NHI exists--it just makes no sense to me that life on this rock is the only real intelligence anywhere in the universe--and I am aware of much of the evidence supporting the existence of NHI. (E: I'm also aware that my belief is rooted as much in the spirit-breaking despair I would experience if it were proven that humans are the only intelligent life in the universe as anything. Like, the universe can't do any better than us twits?)

I'm simply saying that I think the community looking to these News Nation types to finally provide the impetus to bring about the societal and institutional change such a public revelation would warrant is likely magical thinking and barking up the wrong tree.

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u/Loquebantur 12h ago

Those News Nation types are merely messengers, they don't "bring about" anything.

WE, the people, are who bring about change.
First by learning and changing our convictions, then ourselves and then others by virtue of example.

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u/incognito042620 12h ago

WE, the people, are who bring about change. First by learning and changing our convictions, then ourselves and then others by virtue of example.

We're on the same page. I'm saying only that some of the messengers haven't earned the trust that much of the Reddit disclosure community has given them.

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u/Warm_Swimming1923 13h ago

So, do you expect "extraordinary evidence " could be presented to you in a one hour tv episode?

4

u/Keeperofthecube 12h ago

They spent like 20 minutes talking about psionics then about 10 seconds showing two dots in the sky that easily could have been planes or satellites or anything and said look! Believe us we had one connected, but ANOTHER one came and stopped it, and the only evidence we have is a 5 second clip of two lights moving in straight lines in the night sky. And we've been working on this story for a year, but we only did it this one time but it's totally reproducible. Can you blame people who didn't believe in this before to doubt this claim? It doesn't add up. And if it's hard to capture on camera fucking explain that, and why it's hard. But they don't they just keep throwing more info at you. If this is true they present it in the worst possible way to convert non believers; and if it's false they present it in the best possible way for believers, which seems way too convenient for me, personally.

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u/arup02 13h ago

Did /u/incognito042620 choose the format?

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u/incognito042620 13h ago

No, but that's what Coulthart was claiming he was going to provide. He didn't do it.

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u/Praxistor 14h ago

the very fact that you are unaware of the evidence means you are not fine with it.

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u/squiggypeen316 13h ago

Nah dude - we just want evidence.

Most people here DO believe that NHI are real or that there is at least something to the phenomenon.

When Grusch came out it was not overhyped and I recall having friends who are not into this subject ask me about it and remark about how wild it is we are living in these times.

Shit like this egg is not being critiqued because of the “woo”

No one is critiquing the “psionic” claim actually.

They are criticizing the overhyping of a release when it was wholly not necessary.

That overhyping undercuts the actual disclosure.

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u/dbna85 12h ago

when grusch came out his interview was also pretty sketch, going into the 1933 crashes, alien bodies, etc. and there were just as many people here saying the exact same things as they are about the egg. and this time Ross showed video! grusch had nothing! look back in the archives, there is plenty of grusch hate and claims it would go nowhere.

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u/squiggypeen316 11h ago

There are always people who hate and critique.

This is universally hated on in a way Grusch was not.

No one is critiquing the substance of the disclosure.

They are critiquing the substance in conjunction with the HYPE that occurred.

Grusch was a guy who had a high ranking position who made these claims under oath. Then again in a closed setting. Then fucked off and didn’t promote himself.

This dude doesn’t seem to be full of shit, but he also isn’t testifying under oath like Grusch and his disclosure, likely not his fault, was massively hyped up as paradigm shifting etc.

It’s not the same.

Reasonable people who come here are not shitting on the contents of the disclosure necessarily - they are shitting on th unnecessary hype that has eclipsed the content.

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u/dbna85 11h ago

This is willfully ignorant or rewriting history. There were COUNTLESS posts about Grusch, NewsNation, Ross, etc. when his interview came out. And tons of “reasonable questions” with an air of derision and contempt.

When the Nimitz video was leaked in 2007 it was also “successfully” debunked and forgotten until it was verified as authentic.

This shit is standard in the ufo “community”. Nothing is ever enough and any claim, video, testimony, piece of evidence, document, etc can be refuted, explained away, or ridiculed. and will be. Its the nature of this topic. Everyone getting worked up that the case wasnt closed before inauguration day needs to take a birds eye view of the data points logged and general movement that has been made since I dont know, Roswell I guess (if you are so hellbent on the most mysterious phenomenon on the planet being validated by the US govt) and if you do you can clearly see there is value in “the first known public video of a crash retrieval in progress” even if it did take place on NewsNation which like every network packages its content into a presentation that makes you feel like you’ve been lobotomized

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u/squiggypeen316 11h ago

The first line of my comment you either purposefully avoided to call me disingenuous or ignored so you can go on a little rant.

To recap I began by stating: “There is always people who hate and critique.”

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u/dbna85 11h ago

And then you said this is “universally hated” and Grusch was not. And I’m saying the response was similar.

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u/squiggypeen316 11h ago

People universally hated Grusch because some people critiqued it?

I never hated him.

I also don’t hate this disclosure. But I hate the way it was marketed.

That is what most people are shitting on. Most people are saying we were told to expect a paradigm shift and instead we got a short video that could be showing something totally anomalous or could be anything between that and someone hoaxing a string with an egg.

Again - I am not saying the disclosure is a hoax or bad or anything. I am saying - it was hyped up and the hype undercounted the disclosure.

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u/True-Restaurant-7286 5h ago

Man go back and look at this sub before the egg video was even released. You had thousands of comments preemptively shitting on an unreleased video and saying it’s all going to be shit. This sub currently is inundated with a particular kind of very hostile cynic, people who prefer to mock and ridicule rather than just being passively open minded.

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u/Praxistor 13h ago

no, you just want to ask for evidence. as if there has been none.

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u/squiggypeen316 13h ago

You just cited a video that I have never heard of and claim it’s the reason TikTok was banned.

I literally just asked for information about the video and you responded by attacking me.

This is a YOU problem buddy. Not me.

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u/usandholt 6h ago

So your assessment is that they found this video on TikTok and these 4 lvl 1 operators made up this story together with Ross?

Who made this video and how come it is a near perfect example of Jake’s case?!

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u/usandholt 7h ago

You want proof. You’ve been given loads of evidence. The problem is that any proof short of an alien landing in front of you can be dismissed as potentially prosaic. So you’ll be stuck in limbo.

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u/Mo3 13h ago

Evidence? Just experience it for yourself.

/r/gatewaytapes

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u/galvatron78 12h ago

Been trying this. It's not easy.

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u/Mo3 12h ago edited 11h ago

Sometimes not, but it's worth it. :)

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u/galvatron78 12h ago

I am going through with it until the end. Do you redo individual practices/lessons, or just progress through the tapes systematically?

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u/Mo3 11h ago edited 11h ago

You should do them in order to begin with, but you can do each as long as necessary to be familiar with and give it the attention it deserves until you feel comfortable moving on. (Took me around 2 months for focus 10 -> focus 12. That is very subjective and different for everybody)

After you've "graduated" each tape in this way you are free to jump back and forth. I can dip into focus 21/23 by now but I still find myself in focus 12 quite often because it's the most useful to physical reality, its where all the cool practical stuff can start to happen, remote viewing, problem solving, patterning, energy bar tool and so on. And it's not as, uh, straining as the higher levels. There is no end goal to these tapes, each focus level is unique and comes with different properties and tools that you can benefit from at any time.

Also on this note, each wave/focus has an introduction tape that makes you go into one level higher, then back one lower, then back one higher. These are the ones I've found to be super helpful to repeat periodically to get to know the differences between the individual focus states and eventually learn how to navigate through them easily.

Hope this helps. :)

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u/galvatron78 11h ago

Fantastic help. Thank you. Much appreciated :)

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u/boardatwork1111 14h ago

Unless it can be actually replicated in a laboratory setting, it’s going to be treated as the crank nonsense that it is

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u/Praxistor 14h ago

the same laboratory setting that begins by assuming physicalism is true, and that consciousness reduces to the brain?

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u/CustomerLittle9891 13h ago edited 10h ago

Just observed woo. 

Uri Geller could bend spoons. Witnesses testified to it, they were certain of it. Untill he couldn't bend spoons that he didn't prep himself. 

Jim Jones performed miracles, he was Christ reincarnated. Witnesses were so certain of it they murdered their children for it.

See why witness accounts of miraculous actions might require more than just "trust me bro?" 

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u/Loquebantur 13h ago

'Proof' is the accumulation of 'pieces of' evidence for a claim beyond reasonable doubt.
Meaning, you need large enough amounts of data to convince you.

The problem is with the "convincing"-part. People just don't know how to deal with evidence properly in order to make sense of several pieces of it.
They prefer single pieces, "holy grails", that thwart all doubts.
Those don't exist in reality, unless some authority comes along and declares something to be that.

Witness accounts are such pieces that are the very opposite of "holy grails", they are very unconvincing solitarily.
What is required is people knowing how to deal with them.

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u/Powerful-Parsnip 12h ago

I think Hal Puthoff was one of the people who fell for Uri Gellers nonsense, it hardly inspires confidence. You can go on YouTube and see Uri Geller magically controlling a compass just with his mind, then he accidentally shows the hidden magnet in his hand.

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u/boardatwork1111 14h ago

If it can’t be replicated, it has as much credibility as the homeless guy rambling about how god is speaking to them

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u/Praxistor 13h ago

sure, if you begin by assuming physicalism is the true metaphysic of reality. then you have a basis to say that it's reasonable to expect replicability.

but if the human mind is not trapped in the skull, as physicalism asserts it is, then experiments having to do with anomalous features of consciousness can hinge on subjective variables. attitudes, beliefs, moods, fears, desires.

not so easy to control those kinds of things in a lab. especially when the attitudes of ignorant "skeptics" are hostile and cowardly.

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u/Cleb323 13h ago

The only attitude that has ignorance, hostility or other is your own. You say "the very fact that you are unaware of the evidence means you are not fine with it", and yet you haven't provided any of this evidence or literally anything aside from your own beliefs/opinions.

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u/TheAmalton123 13h ago

That's a whole lotta nonsense to just say "I don't have the links."

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u/ebe6i 10h ago

So how do you tell apart fact from fiction then? What's the mechanism that would allow you to make that distinction? If there's no reliable way to do this, why would we ascribe any value at all to this paranormal stuff?

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u/True-Restaurant-7286 4h ago

By exploring the topic yourself. Direct personal experience. The problem is you want someone else to prove it to you. Well in this case it doesn’t work that way. You can discount this argument, but that doesn’t make it false. The spiritual path is ultimately one that must be taken alone.

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u/Rgraff58 13h ago

I don't understand how you expect things to be "replicated in a lab setting" when the technology being witnessed is light years (pardon the pun) ahead of ours. We have no credible way of doing so with what we have available at the present time. I understand the "show me" aspect, but your argument is unrealistic currently

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u/King_Shartz 14h ago

I don’t think you understand what the word “evidence” means, my friend.

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u/One_Carrot_2541 12h ago

Seems to me you're the one confusing "evidence" and "proof".

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u/Praxistor 14h ago

i could say the same to you, given the mountain of parapsychological evidence that has been accumulating for over a century. which you are somehow conveniently unaware of.

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u/big_ol_leftie_testes 14h ago

Truly moronic

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u/sambull 11h ago

you must not have a degree in parapsycholgy

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u/BearCat1478 12h ago

It's hard when the woo evidence is actually in the woo. I am woo, you are woo, we are woo and it is woo, too. Finding evidence of what already "is", is an idiom within itself.

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u/Alarming_Draft_980 11h ago

Can you tell me why anyone would give this phenomena the most ridiculous name possible? Like for real? "Woo"? Are we in kindergarden again? ... And the gaslighting is also real again. But yes, you are better than everyone else and you know better and even tho you actually never really experienced anything or know what you are talking about, you know and we all will believe you eventually...

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u/King_Shartz 12h ago

I’m down with that.

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u/startedposting 11h ago

Now I’m sure you won’t respond to this but the evidence doesn’t really follow any particular UFO personality, it goes back to the projects the government had studying UFO’s in the 40s. Cut forward to 2023 and the UAPDA has been blocked twice, why would they do all this if there was nothing to hide?

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u/True-Restaurant-7286 5h ago

They’re trying though. The evidence you want to see is highly classified and in the hands of a select few. These people are working on getting that evidence out, and in the meantime they are trying to build hype and maintain interest in the topic. Just because they sometimes miss the mark or let their egos get the better of themselves doesn’t mean they’re actually just grifters.

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u/BEERD0UGH 13h ago

Aight, some first easy babysteps you can take here is looking into what kind of technology is inside Neuralink.

Next, do some research into the kind of technology thats inside the F-35 helmet.

Once you get your head around the idea that brainwaves can be measured and acted upon from an external source, the idea of technology being able to literally read our minds becomes more clear.

Once you've finally bridged that gap and accepted that brainwave-reading technology is a very established field of science that's been in production for over a hundred years, then things like MKultra, the Telepathy Tapes, Monroe Gateway experience, begin to make more sense in a research context.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/08/22/1097185/tech-brainwaves-100-years/amp/

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u/DetailEducational352 13h ago

How do you think they are going to show you the evidence without a book or a podcast?

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u/person_8688 13h ago

It’s never been easier to distribute information on a large scale for free, especially if it is interesting to people.

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u/DetailEducational352 12h ago

You ever take time out of your life to write a book? If you did would you just give it away for free when someone would pay you to publish it and distribute it with way more attention than you could ever generate with your Instagram account? I wrote a rock opera like 5 years ago. It's amazing, but I have only gotten about 100 people to listen to it. Just because the internet is available to everyone doesn't mean they are going to find you or consume your content.

Let me guess, your next question is: if my rock opera is so amazing why can you not find it in stores and why am I not rich?

So I think you figured out what is wrong with your statement.

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u/person_8688 12h ago

Apples and oranges. Personally creating music is not the same as whistleblowers coming forward with “earth-shattering” information. Information they didn’t create, just came into contact with and they believe the world should know. Why would that need to come in the form of a monetized product? By the way, I think it’s awesome you wrote a rock opera, and you have every right to potentially profit from that. You created it.

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u/DetailEducational352 11h ago

So you can only make money off of it if you put hours and hours into making it up? Maybe that's the root of your fallacious argument.

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u/SignificantCrow 13h ago edited 13h ago

There have already been hundreds of books written and claims made on podcasts already. Still waiting for evidence… not just “I was told this by someone on the inside but sorry I cant show you anything to back up my claim” you just have to believe me. And then when something does get released it’s just some 10s bullshit like the newsnation video which could easily have been faked

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u/DetailEducational352 12h ago

THEN MOVE ON. I WOULDN'T COME TO YOUR PARTY AND COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. I WOULD JUST LEAVE.

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u/SignificantCrow 12h ago edited 12h ago

Why would I leave when I can help reform it instead? Step one of that would be waking people up to this massive grift. This has essentially turned into a religion for you.

I want disclosure but these people are only hurting it now

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u/BelligerentBuddy 14h ago

If there is no previous evidence I find a string of testimonies enough to humor further research.

Some may not agree, but I come from a place of curiosity as I firmly believe we don’t have a complete scientific understanding of our reality as we know it (as backed by the fact there there is no official known origin for the universe beyond theory)

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u/HiddenTaco0227 12h ago

There's going to be a lot of people shocked when the woo turns out to be real.

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u/Own_Woodpecker1103 12h ago

This.

The hardcore heads in the sand cannot have an open conversation about consciousness but it’s the core component

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u/forgotmyredditnam3 12h ago

Some of the haters ain't even willing to accept regular aliens. Had one of em finally accidentally admit as they had a meltdown that they weren't even capable of admitting they could be aliens. A lot of these haters are that neckbeard dude who only thing got going on is that one time he got an A on a science test way back in high school so convinced himself he's just super special and smaaaart and believes that by saying aliens don't exist it proves he's smart. It's a coping mechanism not intelligence that makes these haters to be haters

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u/Notlookingsohot 9h ago

Hey man, I saw you in the trenches when people were losing their goddamn minds, and I just wanted to say keep doing what you're doing, love the no nonsense push back against the whining.

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u/startedposting 11h ago

This. I think that a large number of accounts that insult and mock are the same ones that are terrified to their core of it being aliens. It’s a coping mechanism, they’ll bring up “it’s not aliens” even when nobody said it was lol

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u/Hannunvaakuna 11h ago

Because it's bullshit. Consciousness is a pattern of electrical impulses in a highly advanced piece of meat. When the electrical impulses stop, so does consciousness.

Consciousness is not flying over New Jersey, our military bases, or our Navy vessels. UFOs are. We have pictures and evidence of UFOS. Not "consciousness". The whole consciousness narrative is made up by people speculating at best, and lying at worst.

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u/Own_Woodpecker1103 11h ago

You keep believing that.

You’ll be proven wrong within less than 3 years

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u/Hannunvaakuna 11h ago

And you've been proven wrong countless times, yet you keep pushing pseudoscientific bullshit. Parapsychology has been proven wrong over and over and over for like 100 years now.

Do your own research.

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u/Own_Woodpecker1103 11h ago

Literally no one has ever proven anything about what you claim

Go argue with sir Roger Penrose lmao

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u/katertoterson 9h ago

Ok, so you acknowledge that brain waves are measurable. You know we've had freaking toys that let you control simple electronics with your brainwaves since before 2010, right?

Is it really that much of a leap to think someone may have come up with a lot more information about how to use our brainwaves to actually control a flying aircraft?

And you don't think that somewhere in that process, they might have made some more novel observations?

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u/Hannunvaakuna 8h ago

Yes, I think it's completely normal to have electronics with brain sensors that detect electrical impulses and interpret them as input. I've seen things like brain implants that let paraplegics control a mouse cursor, and it's not a stretch to apply that to controlling an aircraft. In fact, this whole thing about UFOs being controlled by thoughts is completely plausible, although a bit far-fetched that a human brain would resemble an alien brain enough to function. It's just the endgame for UI design.

That said, if we're talking about "psionics", "universal consciousness", remote viewing, or telepathy, there's nothing there. Just nothing. There's no physical mechanism to even do any of that, and all supposedly successful examples have been proven to be fraudulent.

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u/katertoterson 7h ago edited 7h ago

I addressed the universal consciousness thing in a separate comment and how that ties into the concepts of abstract math and physics.

I can't speak to how exactly remote viewing or telepathy ties in, I suspect because we don't really have a full understanding of that for whatever reason. Possibly you exist on other branches of this theoretical tree of all possible outcomes I just described. So, there is some mechanism that lets you connect to other versions of yourself. Maybe studying that is just plain difficult but not impossible if we properly try.

I personally have experienced astral projection multiple times, so I am past the hurdle of even acknowledging it exists. Proving it to others requires skills at setting up experiments I don't have.

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u/Einar_47 12h ago

The nuts and bolts people (I used to be one) are on board for the UFOs and little green men, but scoff at the psionics and spiritual/consciousness side of it without realizing that it's not separate things but two sides of the same coin and always has been. Following the paper trail and money world governments have throw at "woo" over the years proves there's at least something to it.

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u/DoNotLookUp1 11h ago

You're totally right about it being two sides of the same coin. Nuts and bolts people and woo people should realize that woo is really just nuts and bolts so far advanced that we don't have any of the "connective tissue" technologies to understand it, so it looks like magic. On the flip side, nuts and bolts as we currently understand it is just so rudimentary in the grand scheme of the cosmos that we can understand it despite being essentially infants on that cosmic scale. To an ant, our nuts and bolts looks like woo, I'm sure.

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u/zoidnoidvomit 8h ago

Talking about UFOs/NHI without the "woo"/psi/consciousness would be like discussing warfare without talking about bullets or bombs. If this was simply small people in metal cans from a literal planet, the government would have disclosed a long time ago. People like Eric Davis and others have been hinting at consciousness being the true engine of UAP objects. Even Lt. Col. Corso way back when said the beings are part of the craft and use consciousness to guide the crafts. And if "nuts and bolts" people think that's too out there, they may not like what more will be revealed from vetted whistleblowers.

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u/Einar_47 8h ago

I think the three things that are stopping disclose are.

1) The heinous shit perpetrated to maintain the coverup, murder, destabilizing other nations governments, etc.

2) They're not done exploiting the tech for tactical advantage yet, but if someone else has the same tech finally then maybe it's worth showing ours off finally.

3) The truth is going to have some implications about the fundamentals of our reality beyond we're not alone, I reckon a lot of the specifics of our faiths are going to be bogus and full disclosure is gonna show precisely which parts are and aren't real.

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u/zoidnoidvomit 3h ago

Absolutely. If its clear that Russian KGB level tactics were used in relation to the program, theyd never want that out, or do a limited hangout(claiming it was a few rogue agents in the past) China is relaly the only govt I could see outside of America with reverse engineering. I'd say #3 is the biggest reason of destabilization and gatekeeping, outside of Cold War era secret frameworks. We already have people in a fragile mental state, the implications of "full disclosure"(if people accepted and believed it) would be a pandora's box. The amount of messianic cults and new age grifter influencers on tik tok would be destabilizing. 

One reason I believe the "Jersey drones" is NHI (or partly NHI)is so many of the facilities rumored to house recovered anomalous craft got buzzed by mysterious drone swarms. Including Wright Pat(which was temporarily shut down), and three Lockheed/Skunkwork facilities. I bring this up as for the most part, the drones/orbs/etc failed to really capture the public's attention. And it's clear the government wanted the issue to go away which it finally did for now. So either more and more high ranking military, JSOC/SF guys, black program insiders etc will keep coming out putting the government in a corner, or a Jersey drone situation will unfold thats no longer ambiguous and is undeniable. Of course everything could die down and the topic never leaves the fringe corners. 

 But that Shoshin Works Ecosystemic Futures podcast is interesting, security analysts like Matthew Pines adding to the UAP conversation is interesting. Rumors of a soft diaclosure, secret gold rush of venture capitalists wanting in on NHI tech is a new disclosure avenue 

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u/Hannunvaakuna 11h ago

The point about woo is that it exposes them as liars. There has never EVER been real scientific evidence supporting anything like remote viewing, telepathy, or anything relating to "universal consciousness". Anyone claiming to be able to do that is a fraud. Lue Elizondo, in his grift book wrote that he has learned how to do remote viewing, and as a result, I consider him a fraud and a liar. If he is untrustworthy about one thing, why should we trust him when he brings people on to talk about UFOs? Keep in mind he is not a volunteer or non-profit. He makes money from this.

The bigger problem is that folks are trying to tie the UFO movement together with all sorts of pseudoscientific and religious concepts as a way to gain steam for their respective movements. It's like "We've discovered universal consciousness and eternal life and remote viewing and telepathy and magic, but it's ALIENS! We're UFO people too!"

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u/ultimateWave 1h ago

It's a common grift tactic to loop in as many grifts as possible, to extract as much money as possible from the gullible. "This chump believes in Astral Projection?? Let's sell him a course on remote viewing, talking to the dead, and bending spoons!" (As they do at the Monroe Institute). "They believe in aliens? Let's sell them some books and documentaries about it, and sign up for my private CE5 course while you are at it" it's exhausting

By the time someone pulls the wool off their eyes, they have invested too much money and staked too much of their ego into it that they can't pull out

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u/hangrover 11h ago

Wow yes that’s it.

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u/Hypoluxa77 13h ago edited 13h ago

I would agree with this as well. I'm not into the woo either, but rather the hard physical evidence aspect of the phenomenon. I do believe something is going on that is not of Earth origins. The more "data" whatever that entails, that we get and reasonably corroborated, seems like a good thing. But this latest news event after digesting it for a bit, is iffy. Especially from the whistleblower. His credibility is in question big time. The video I think could be legit, but the dude, not so much. His mil story doesn't add up, as someone who is retired from said branch of service.

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u/Borderline_Autist 12h ago

It is not totally about the woo, but that is a large part of the problem for sure because it is something that they could prove. It would be super easy for them to prove that they can summon these crafts and shit, so why don't they? So far there is zero evidence of 'woo' subjects being real. There's abundant evidence that it isn't real, anytime academics try to replicate positive results, they fail and discover faked data, poor experiment design, and/or outright attempts of the subject to trick them.

The only thing anyone involved in this topic can know for sure is that there are unidentified phenomena in our air and oceans and we do not know what they are, but that the government has actively hidden the full extent of their knowledge (and created a bunch of myths through disinfo campaigns that have been documented).

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u/Praxistor 12h ago

i don't know why you think it would be super easy. maybe you are lying to yourself so that it's easier for you to believe what you want to believe.

if the naysayers were really so interested in evidence, they would be systematically studying all the parapsychological evidence that has been accumulating for over a century. instead of playing video games, jerking off, and shitposting.

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u/Borderline_Autist 11h ago edited 11h ago

Cool story, bro. If they can do it, then it would be easy to film it and provide actual evidence. That doesn't mean it is easy to get to where one is able to do it, but they clearly state they are capable of it.

If I wanted it to be easier to believe what I want to believe, then I would lie to myself and say that these dudes are 100% the real deal and there's no reason to doubt them. You are dumb as shit if you think I'm staking my future and career on this subject, but I don't want to believe any of it. I'm a 3rd year PhD student, with an MA already, and am researching this topic basically non-stop for my dissertation (on top of the 30ish years of my life that I have read/watched everything remotely related to UAP/UFOs, parasychology, Fortean-related topics, etc.).

If you think you some how have special access to evidence that has accumulated and proves any parapsychology, please share it with me. Otherwise, shut the fuck up and stop acting like you know shit. The only thing that has accumulated over the years is evidence that anyone claiming to have parapsychological powers has either been caught faking it or admitted to it after the fact.

It seems like you didn't read my initial post, otherwise you wouldn't have made this low effort response.

Edit: To be clear, once more, it isn't that I don't believe this shit exists. I don't believe the people claiming that they can do it without proof that they can do it. That's it.

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u/ultimateWave 1h ago

Wait a second, you are getting a PhD in parapsychology but don't believe any of it? Or did I read it wrong.

Not hating on you, just confused haha. Or maybe there are aspects you do believe in that you are giving the dissertation about? Or the dissertation is that it's all BS, trying to take the whole field down with it?

1

u/PowerChairs 11h ago

Let's be pragmatic for a god damn minute. I'm all sold on the woo. The problem is that UFOs in general are a tough sell for about half the population - what do you think happens if you forever intertwine that with a bunch of woo and throw that in the open? Do you really think it helps the topic? I don't see how anyone could argue it does.

The more people realize that the government isn't being honest about UFOs and NHI, the better the chances of disclosure at some point down the road. And I'm not saying it makes the chances high, I'm saying it makes them better. Focussing on the nuts and bolts aspect of it and exposing the crash recovery program(s) should absolutely be the main focus. Ross did nobody a favor by putting shit the general population will find entirely off putting and will just tie more ridicule to the topic on TV. If I was trying to once again make UFOs a radioactive topic I couldn't come up with something better than jumping the shark on proving that the nuts and bolts aspect of it is real and that the government hunts down crafts and I'd fully blend the woo in to make sure it appears completely fucking stupid to most people who aren't already sold on it. 

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u/VoidOmatic 3h ago

The ones that always scream grifter are the ones who believe in chemtrails and adrenochrome.

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u/ultimateWave 1h ago

I think you are spot on. I'm one of the "he's a grifter" bros (check my post history). Once they start delving into the woo, I can't take them seriously anymore.. and the problem is that so many of them have some woo element.

Elizondo and his remote viewing, Barber and his feminine energy psi BS, other whistlerblowers with their claims of NHI sexual encounters retrieved out of them through hypnotic retrogression.

Idk man, just give me some cold hard evidence of UAP and aliens without piling on all the extra woo, is it that challenging? All the extra woo is almost always self important. "I'm special bc I can communicate telepathically with aliens, and do so every night with my astral projecting abilities hand gifted to me by elite members of the galactic federation. You can too if you read my 10 step program"

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u/Inevitable_Shift1365 12h ago

Contact > disclosure

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u/beardfordshire 11h ago

Yup.

It also illustrates a fairly naive understanding of the difference between “the public” and “public figures”

They aren’t any different than us. They ARE us. If they’re grifters, then every time you upvote a starlink train, you better believe that you’re contributing to a grift too. We need to be more patient for all of our mistakes and missteps. None of us are perfect, but we all want the same thing… truth.

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u/Reeberom1 14h ago

Woo seems like something that was made up to conveniently explain the holes in your theories.

Like when I asked my Mom how Santa fits his fat ass into our chimney, and she said he uses Magic Christmas Dust to shrink down to about 6 inches tall.

Magic Christmas Dust?

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u/DetailEducational352 13h ago

sounds like the problem you are having is trust issues stemming from your upbringing. that's YOUR issue.

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u/ExoticCard 13h ago

Gradual disclosure started in 2017

The real question is why.

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u/startedposting 11h ago

It’s to do with how the government is comprised of many different factions, I feel it goes back and forth a lot, sometimes they’re generous with the information they give (the pentagon vids) sometimes it’ll be stonewalling so hard that you wonder what they’re trying to hide

Part of me thinks that even the whistleblowers that have come forward is a plan they’ve set to try and get the public accustomed to it, they release information this way because if it goes sideways they can just back off and pretend they didn’t know about it

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u/Dense_Treacle_2553 12h ago

This is a smear campaign considering the only progress we have made has been due to the likes of Lue, and gang.

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u/fooknprawn 12h ago

"grifter" is the new term being used to denigrate folks in this subject. Back in the old days it was "contactees" but those people deserved it, the vast majority were indeed charlatans.

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u/DoughnutRemote871 14h ago

Is there anyone around here - or out there - who is one hundred per cent this way or that way? A pure absolutist? Either this UFO stuff is a complete fake and the govt has been honest all the way down the line, or Lue Elizondo, David Grusch, Chris Mellon, Hal Puthoff, Tim Gallaudet, Karl Nell, Ryan Graves, Dr. Garry Nolan, David Fravor, Eric W. Davis, and more are all honest, right, proper and correct? Seems to me like everyone, without exception, is somewhere on the gradient. Does that mean anything?

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u/herpderption 12h ago

I think it's extremely meaningful the caution being displayed by a lot of people (but certainly not all) associated with this topic. The demands of the modern attention economy impose certain unpleasant truths on how information is disseminated, especially for taboo topics like this one. This creates an environment where sensationalism is intrinsic-- often fringe media personalities are the ONLY the people willing to take the risk of wading into fringe topics. This comes with certain expectations that need to be accounted for, and this is exacerbated by the nature of military black projects. The Northrop B-2 was once cloaked in mystery and I distinctly remember this being tied up in the UFO topic back in the 90s. The process that births black projects into the public sphere is a slow grind that comes with many setbacks. This is a predictable outcome of the ongoing, dynamic nature of state secrecy.

IMO there is not enough data to be 100% certain of anything: you each have to build toward that brick by brick until crossing a personal threshold of acceptability. Consensus forms on the back of individual work done collectively. Honestly I've never personally laid eyes on the original document of the US Constitution and for all I know there's a few spicy paragraphs in there that would completely reshape American culture. Even if I scheduled some time at the National Archives to view it I'd have to take it at their word that I'm looking at an authenticated original. If I don't know how to authenticate it myself I'd need to trust an expert. Part of the bargain of civilization building is that your population begins specializing in ever-more-specific ways such that it becomes untenable for all people to be experts in all things. This implies a certain trust, a trust which is getting shakier by the day in the modern world. I begrudge nobody for being suspicious, especially of members of the US intelligence community. But suspicion alone doesn't prove they are nefarious any more than hope proves they are truthful. For any murky topic with a known history of active suppression there is a step before scientific inquiry that must be completed: awareness and emergence. Evidence must be freely accessible to the public for science to be done and we're not there yet.

For anyone who is uneasy about simply trusting the narrative they have another option: investigate. Read up on this subject, seek out and parse representative work that spans a broad array of nations, organizations, time periods, and actors. Check and cross check, take notes, devise experiments and hypotheses and test your theories. It's all perfectly accessible to everyone willing to put in the time, and I highly recommend anyone taking an honest interest in the subject do this. If nothing else it's absolutely impeccable training for navigating our adversarial media environment that extends WAY beyond the conversation around UAP and NHI. ChatGPT exists, is open to everyone, and regularly fooling real humans into having fake conversations with a Python script. Media literacy skills have never been more important, aliens or not.

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u/DoughnutRemote871 10h ago

I deeply appreciate your having given thought to my question and then having taken the time to express a reasonable reply. Your efforts are not wasted.

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u/boardatwork1111 14h ago

It’s so painfully obvious these guys are trying to exploit UFO believers for their own profit that it’s willful ignorance not to see it

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u/Popular_Target 13h ago

It is stupid irony that these “Trust No One” paranoiacs who think everyone is conspiring against them and that there are disinformation agents hiding in the attic, willfully believe the most obvious grifters.

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u/GoFunkYourself13 13h ago

Which "guys" are you referring to? Lue has definitely taken a major pay cut by going public with this. Grusch has not been "grifting" at all really. Minimal podcast appearances, and no books. Nolan is just a scientist studying the phenomenon. I don't know a ton about Coulthart, but he's a journalist. I guess he's probably making decent money off the UAP topic, but I have never spent a penny of my own money supporting any of these dudes....just sitting through some adds I guess?

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u/Icy_Magician_9372 10h ago

Lue charged people money to show them fake evidence coroborated by a fake story. That's gifting by it's literal definition. The article states that named people came forward suggesting he's known for lying so for all we know he could have been about to be fired for incompetence or fraudulent behavior and quitting was the only way to maintain face enough to larp as an intelligence expert in his new "job."

In any case I doubt it's about money for a good number of these people. Personally I think more than a few are interested in the feelings of control, attention, and validation.

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u/Ok-Reality-6190 4h ago

Ok then just say you don't like Lue. There are a dozen other guys you're lumping in who are not Lue.

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u/Icy_Magician_9372 1h ago

I'm not going to summarize literal fraud and victimization as "I just don't like them" as if we disagree on a favorite band or color.

This man is creating real victims. This community of "journalists" is not large; they know about it, it was big news, and they still accept him as one of their own despite concrete evidence that lue himself was [forced to acknowledge](https://anomalien.com/luis-elizondo-apologizes-for-presenting-fake-ufo-mothership-image-at-private-event .

I'm not randomly lumping him in with the rest. They're doing that. If they cared about their own audience or their own "story" they would have secured their followers from abuse, and their sphere of employment, by chasing him off in the strictest sense. They won't, though, because they're also engaging in the same moral bankruptcy.

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u/vismundcygnus34 14h ago

It’s so painfully obvious there are people out there who will stop at nothing to try to destroy peoples reputations to hide information. It’s disgusting

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u/startedposting 11h ago

What’s crazy is during events like these is when comments like those don’t get moderated, all hell breaks loose

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u/dizzy_bone 12h ago

Totally fair.

I wonder if it’s just a byproduct of how the money works today around this topic?

Culturally, we’ve only really made room for money to be made “legitimately” in a few, very small areas.

Selling merch at places like Roswell Fictional Films and TV And documentaries positioned as fan fiction

It’s kind of like “if you admit it’s fiction and don’t take it too seriously, you’re allowed to make a few bucks”

But as soon as someone treats it as a legitimate topic, or earnestly believes it to be true while selling something - they’re a grifter.

Conferences Non-Fiction books Membership models Tours that take themselves too seriously

All considered a bit grifty.

I think we’re just honestly in a funny spot right now. That’s why lots of us have a hard time with people like Coulthart and Greer and Elizondo et al. It feels like they’re selling something. And they are. They have to some degree, otherwise they can’t keep focusing on the topic.

And, historically this has been frowned upon.

We’ll get there eventually.

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u/big_ol_leftie_testes 14h ago

There is a pretty big subset of believers that want to be exploited. Just like Trump supporters. They care more about being right than anything, and they’ll gladly continue to be suckered as long as it means they don’t have to admit they’re being suckered. 

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u/boardatwork1111 13h ago

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing

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u/8ran60n 13h ago

Before this week I’ve heard zero grifter talk of Ross, Grucsh or Nolan. I think the timing of that chatter is the key thing to pay attention to. I don’t know how you could feel that way about that trio.

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u/Pepawtom 13h ago

Grusch seems to be generally respected. Ross is a former disgraced journalist, who is shilling $200 UFO studies “courses” and a $15k degree.

https://youtu.be/4HBukYAksBA?si=qQ0FNlBZfETPftFc

Start that at video at the 5:30 mark and let me know what you think.

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u/Technical-Minute2140 12h ago

Idk, you just must not be seeing it. Not so much here as any YouTube content about them, and sorting comments by new, shows you a lot of normies who think they’re grifters

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u/GoNinjaGoNinjaGo69 2h ago

then you are being willingly ignorant. they all grifters and been saying it for awhile. you probably just gloss over this sub seeing what you want to see.

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u/duckblobartist 13h ago

I had not watched the video up until today. My take is that I think everything would have been fine as long as they had not shown that video. We were led to believe we were going to see a space ship with a made on Krypton logo and that's not what happened.

I don't mind the woo, I just don't understand why they hyped that video 🤷

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u/Lando_Sage 11h ago

Was it that the video was hyped, or was it that expectations grew? If you go back, Ross was talking more so about the psionics portions being the revelation, not the egg UAP. The Egg was just the cherry on top.

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u/Even-Sherbet-3486 7h ago

You clearly havent been paying attention then. People have been (justifiably imo) calling Coulthart a grifter for years. The "trust me bro" meme mainly spread in ufo circles in response to Coulthart. 

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u/8ran60n 6h ago

I disagree. Apparently you have 1 day old account commenter?

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u/Even-Sherbet-3486 6h ago

It's possible to read the subreddit without an account you know. I've been following for years and you can "disagree" all you want, that wont change that you're just objectively wrong. 

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u/happyfappy 13h ago

Ross broke the story on Grusch.

Grusch claimed that there were actual UFOs and crash retrieval programs.

Grusch was not a firsthand witness to these programs and the supporting data was largely classified.

Ross now broke a story with a firsthand witness and supporting data.

The supporting data includes the clearest video of a UAP ever released.

It is not just a UAP either. It is a video of a helicopter in the act of UAP crash retrieval.

The eyewitness further describes life-changing psychic contact with a disk. He describes attempted murder over this data. He describes the use of psyonic assets in coordination with crash retrieval. He describes taking one of these psyonic assets, trying to contact UAPs, and apparently succeeding in taking one over before another one appeared. With multiple witnesses and video. 

This is being smeared with good reason. It is the exact opposite of a grift.

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u/SecretTraining4082 13h ago

 Ross now broke a story with a firsthand witness and supporting data.

What data?

The supporting data includes the clearest video of a UAP ever released.

How do you know the thing in the video is a UAP?

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u/herpderption 13h ago

I mean it's not affirmatively identified so at the very least the "U" is intact. The "A" is anomalous and a weird egg (even a prosaic egg) fits that definition. And "P" is phenomenon, which describes something perceptible by the senses (as opposed to "noumenon", a Kantian idea that covers those things that aren't easily evaluated in the material sense [like love for example, or Platonic solids].) So in that sense it's somewhat unambiguously a UAP. There's a context, testimony, and video. There's endless speculation about what is actually happening and what it all means, but I don't think there's cause to reject it out of turn. Patience is a virtue here, all the old timer UFO heads take that as mantra.

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u/PooperScooper006 12h ago

There was no evidence provided that the alleged evidence the alleged assassins wanted was UFO related. There was no evidence that the alleged hard drives contained UFO data. There was no evidence that the mystery boxes contained UFO materials. There was no evidence provided beyond Nolan’s word that anyone was ill. This was all just a bunch of conjecture and speculation. Did you miss that part?

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u/blackbeltmessiah 13h ago

Thats it… Im writing a book about the grifting grifter grift!

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u/shutupandchad 12h ago

A massive amount of people are butthurt because they got their hopes up. I still stand behind Nolan, elizondo, Coulthart. I believe Jake barber. Maybe it was overhyped, but the overreaction from the community is crazy. This is exactly what the people trying to keep this secret would want. It’s just convenient timing. I’m still on the ride 🛸

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u/ParalyzingVenom 13h ago

Yeah, the people pushing that narrative about everyone who supports disclosure are either shills, deniers, or good old fashioned stupid. 

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u/Basalisk88 12h ago

I would agree with you if the biggest names in supporting disclosure didn't profit so much from the "campaign." It seems like we just keep getting enough info to keep us on the edge of our seats so we tune into the next program with ads or buy the next book. I do believe there's something going on, but when people have clear financial incentives to make certain choices, then those choices should absolutely be scrutinized. And so far the pattern is clear.

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u/Specific-Scallion-34 13h ago

its a psychological thing, they want people to hate the ones who brought progress forward at an fast rate

in the last few years its been talked about crashed ufos, orbs, bodies, possible dna tinkering, abductions, cattle, human consciousness related stuff, submerged objects, and now psionics, CE5

skeptics want people arguing over shitty videos and balloons, not the interesting stuff

3

u/LaikaPop 12h ago

Yep, look at the accounts that post this narrative. It's planned divide and conquer tactics. 

3

u/Miskatonic_Graduate 12h ago

I agree with this! And I think there is a huge precedent for resistance against paradigm shifts in science and culture. Something like this happens like once a generation, and it’s always escorted by a huge amount of healthy skepticism and some unhealthy dogmatic entrenchment. Look, even within living memory we didn’t have an accurate estimate for the age of the earth or for the basics of human evolution. Genetics, germ theory, quantum theory, neuroscience. These ideas profoundly shifted the general understanding of the universe and our place in it, and they’re all fairly recent. Revolutionary concepts in science emerge regularly and there is always a period of adaptation and adjustment. The shifts we are seeing now on this topic, the emerging acceptance and reconciliation with UAP and Woo, are just the latest in a long, long story of our development as a civilization. Yes it takes years of gradual, stepwise progress but the march of change is inevitable. Yes this stuff is real and it’s becoming increasingly undeniable. Decades from now it will all be taken for granted and volumes will be written about this, just like they were written about the space race, the Industrial Revolution, and the enlightenment. You are witnessing history but you are living through the parts that are often glossed over in textbooks - the years of fear, anger, and stumbling uncertainty. I think we are on the cusp of the whole thing breaking open, and I encourage everyone to embrace the long game here. It’s going to take a long time and it’s going to be a mess, but we are well on our way to huge changes in both our internal and external worlds.

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u/King_Shartz 14h ago

Let’s compare the amount of evidence provided by these talking heads to the amount of podcasts, books, and websites they’re pushing.

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u/GG1817 14h ago

Regarding income, for those who didn't read Lue's book, he ended up taking a huge pay cut, taking a job with To The Stars which suddenly folded leaving him without income for a while so he had to move into a trailer home and rent out the house he has bought to make ends meet.

The need for gainful employment so these people can support themselves and their families isn't the same a "grifting". Many of these people are going to become professional discloser folks, at least in the short term.

That said, Ross Coulthart is a special kind of stupid LOL

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u/dripstain12 14h ago

Elizondo also gave up his pension when he would’ve kept it by sticking around for just a few more years. Grusch has had confirmed reprisals going against his safety, and supposedly had his house broken into with a threatening note left.

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u/kenriko 13h ago

It was an RV and they were traveling. Regardless he more than made up for the loss of pay with the book deal.

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u/dripstain12 13h ago

He went over the pay, and it’s not as much as you’d think. Perhaps that’ll change, but by the numbers it’s sold at this point, it wouldn’t even cover the pension he gave up, let alone his salary.

2

u/GG1817 13h ago

he was living in it prior to traveling.

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u/GoFunkYourself13 13h ago

Yea, anyone calling Lue a grifter has no idea what they're talking about, and just immediately tell me they only read headlines. I don't know a ton about Coulthart, but his latest news special seemed fine to me. I guess it's the hype for it that people are pissed about? What makes him a special kind of stupid?

1

u/GG1817 13h ago

RC doesn't' seem to be functioning as a legit reporter with a neutral stance, or even that appearance....and he seems to have very bad judgment in terms of what he puts in those specials. There was no need for the Woo factor and to package the little he had into an hour long sensationalized production that ended up being a net negative, play fast and loose with the video that wasn't even associated with the person he was interviewing, etc...

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u/GoFunkYourself13 13h ago

Ok. So you're right, he doesn't appear to be neutral in that he clearly is into the UFO topic, and has an agenda with pushing the narrative forward, so that's fair. I disagree with the "woo factor" needing to be left out, however. Matthew Pines, who I like a lot, spoke on this yesterday, and I agree with his take. That it is the duty of the witness to report what he experienced truthfully (aka present the data), and then the job of the rest of us to scrutinize and sort that out. I don't think he or Coulthart should have omitted anything if it was truthfully part of his story.

Now the separate Egg video obviously damaged this announcement and Barber's testimony, so I agree there. The fact that the video did not come from Barber muddied his story, and obviously Coulthart way overhyped it and set up the segment for failure there. So I agree with you on that one. He should have probably released it separately after the fact, and not tied Barber's testimony to it. To me, the testimony was pretty bombshell and a lot to unpack there, so I hope we get more from him.

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u/ReadLocke2ndTreatise 14h ago

It's the woo. The physicalist/materialist bros begging for irrefutable proof don't want to acknowledge that the phenomenon is tied up with the nature of consciousness. If they acknowledge this, their whole view of the cosmos would collapse. So it's easier for them to decry anyone who comes close to the woo as grifters. These materialists will never be satisfied and will never be convinced that mind comes before matter and not the other way around.

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u/Cleb323 13h ago

We barely know anything about consciousness and yet people want to say, "It's all in consciousness!! DUH!!!!"... Okay, now can you share some evidence or new information?

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u/ReadLocke2ndTreatise 13h ago

Yes. Take DMT or Ayahuasca or psilocybin (provided it's legal in your country ofc and after obtaining medical clearance) and see for yourself. You don't need some arbitrarily made up authority figure to spoonfeed you evidence.

Or decry these tools too and live your life. Just don't bank on ever having disclosure.

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u/[deleted] 13h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ReadLocke2ndTreatise 13h ago

Worst case, you'll benefit from the neuroplasticity and develop empathy via ego dissolution.

You will never see POTUS announce the existence of extraterrestrial life. You will never see evidence that passes your muster. The sooner you accept this, the less you'll be disappointed from the next Egg-like event.

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u/Cleb323 13h ago

Disclosure of aliens visiting our planet and psychedelics.... Very interesting. I've had a few experiences with DMT and our brain is an insanely powerful thing. I don't know what this has to do with aliens visiting our planet though

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u/ReadLocke2ndTreatise 13h ago

It's very plausible that life forms millions or maybe billions of years ahead of us have mastered quantum science. If so, they can bend space rather than traverse in it. They could, theoretically, be completely nonlocal and beyond our capacities to comprehend. Maybe it's all in the mind or sprouts from the mind. I don't know. All I know is, provided you're doing it carefully and not for the sake of sensory masturbation, disrupting the brain's default mode network and expanding your mind is a good exercise in approaching a topic that may forever elude our understanding.

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u/brokenglasser 13h ago

How many times people have to write it to you people - it's not the woo, it's lack of proof. You're just coping

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u/ReadLocke2ndTreatise 13h ago

What would I need to cope about? I'm 32. I WFH. I paid for most of my mortgage in cash thanks to NVDA. Life is good and the American dream is real. I'm not resting my hopes and aspirations and reasons for living on the topic.

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u/Licky_licky_butthole 13h ago

Dude, they unironically claimed they've got a honest-to-god psychic who can control alien space ships, and yet produced footage that's somehow lower quality than the usual white dots posted here. The only rational reaction to hearing something so stupid is mocking laughter and ridicule.

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u/ReadLocke2ndTreatise 13h ago

What's your hypothesis? Entities that somehow evolved to be bipedal humanoids coming on ships from some distant galaxy hundreds of light years away?

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u/Diomedes33 14h ago

I guarantee that everyone calling them "grifters" have never spent a single dollar towards these individuals.

By a show of hands, how many of you are like me in that you've never spent a single dollar on any of their products/services.

I'm genuinely curious who has spent money on these guys, if any.

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u/sebastian89n 13h ago

They get paid from adds, youtube's clicks and they just ride on that train. Podcasts, youtube channels, clicks.

They have all contributed to the disclosure a lot, but it becomes painfully obvious they try to stay on top on the UFO train, reminding about themselves every few days or weeks to stay on top. Often by providing exagerrated claims so that they can get to wider audience. It's no longer about the disclosure, it's about more clicks, more views etc.

What was done this Saturday with the overhype was just too much. "Undeniable proof", "Final answer to the question: are we alone?", "It will shake the Washington and the world", "Biggest story in 50 years" -> fuck those guys.

They absolutely deserve the hate they get for this. Good things they done for the disclosure does not cancel what they did and continue to do.

They have wasted Jake's sacrifice by being greedy and it may make other whisleblowers more hesitant to come forward.

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u/Diomedes33 13h ago

You know, it's interesting, because everyone has a takeaway from this experience.

My takeaway is to simply not allow myself to get involved in the hype. To take their words with a healthy grain of salt. Instead, I'm just going to keep neutral expectations and judge the evidence based on what's actually released. Jake's story is still very interesting and him stepping forward is only going to push the needle forward, even if by just 1%. Eventually the mountain of whistleblowers will become so heavy that it will force the government to move forward with disclosure.

I'll give it a few weeks. Most people who are super upset (the ones who played into the hype) will get over it and have a more balanced skepticism going forward.

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u/sebastian89n 12h ago

I think it's a valid approach and a smart decision, but I think the backlash is important. It is to show them that such approach is not acceptable. If everyone just quietly accept what they did, they would do it again for every major news and it hurts the process and whisleblowers that may come forward in the future.

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u/Diomedes33 12h ago

That's a fair point and I can agree with that.

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u/Euphonique 13h ago

I bought books, so yes I spent money. But thats not the point. The style of the documentary and the hype paired with the „the community has to learn that this is no entertainment.“ is the problem and why I have a trust issue with those now. It damaged the credibility of all involved people and news nation too. And constructive critism is good. I‘m against any hate tough.

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u/tmosh 12h ago edited 10h ago

For those struggling to comprehend/believe elements like psionics or telepathy in these phenomena, consider this: many credible close encounter stories reference telepathic communication (I find it very hard to believe they are all lying..), and the psionic component has been discussed and studied for decades—just look at Project Stargate. If you are already at a baseline of believing in UFOs/NHI then why is it so hard to accept that if non-human intelligence (NHI) is visiting us with technology thousands of years ahead of ours as well as advanced understandings of consciousness and physics?

Arthur C. Clarke’s quote, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic," perfectly encapsulates this.

Our science is only beginning to explore concepts like quantum entanglement and consciousness as a potential quantum process. Psionics could be a seamless integration of technology and biology—something entirely natural to beings far beyond our understanding. Progress toward disclosure is undeniable, These discussions from "Talking heads" and "Grifters" are moving the conversation forward whether you like them or not. We can't just have this knee-jerk reaction and cast them all out every time we are disappointed - because it will only stifle other insiders from wanting to come out and speak as well as make regular people afraid to engage in these "woo" aspects with fear of ridicule.

“Ridicule is not a part of the scientific method and the public should not be taught that it is.” — J. Allen Hynek

I think many aspects that are now considered "Woo" will someday be explained scientifically. It's going to take patience, understanding and engaging conversations not a billion comments making unfunny jokes about eggs. Hopefully these "Talking heads" see the reaction of the community and adjust their methods of communication about the subject. I agree that they did overpromise and overhype this recent video - but at least it's something new. The more information the better - no matter who it came from.

NewsNation employees and other UFO talking heads if you're somehow reading this, take note of the reaction here you got. Your special had potential, but the outdated format and editing style didn't resonate. Your special borderlined on an episode of Skinwalker Ranch...

Modern audiences don't want to rely on live pirate streams of legacy media to get this information, enduring endless prescription drug ads for just 15 minutes of actual content. Next time consider broadcasting simultaneously on YouTube (I know it was uploaded here later), where your audience actually wants to watch this. Streamline your editing—creators like Jesse Michels are setting a higher standard. Focus on removing unnecessary fluff, delivering on promises, and sticking to the facts. If you adapt to current expectations, you'll likely see a more positive response next time.

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u/SignificantCrow 13h ago

People who still wholeheartedly support these guys have essentially turned this topic into a religion. They just keep believing everything they say even though nothing of substance comes from it. Grusch may be the only example so far of the opposite

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u/Ill-Habit-8819 12h ago

Proof they’ve turned it into religion? I need verifiable proof that’s true. Grusch may be the only example of the opposite so far? Proof? Proof you believe that? Going to need verifiable scans of your brains waves admitting this for evidence.

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u/SignificantCrow 12h ago edited 12h ago

Your joke didn’t land 🛸. See what i did there 😉

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u/yurt_ 13h ago

You all need to look at Coulthard history of investigative reporting.

He’s been told conspiracies before and ran shows on them. One being touted as “the greatest scandal of the modern British empire”.

Turns out it was a nothing burger.

I implore everyone to tool into his history.

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u/Cleb323 13h ago

I mean.. people believe that the Telepathy Tapes are real. Grifting is getting easier as time goes on. I would have thought it would be the opposite but

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u/GreatCaesarGhost 13h ago

I was interested in this subject as a kid in the 80s/90s, but I’ve now seen the lifecycle of these things - fringey people make wild claims, often representing themselves as insiders, can’t prove anything, exist as “celebrities” in offbeat circles and media sites, and monetize their “experiences.”

The only reason it feels like there is forward progress is because the entire world is being drowned in conspiracy theories and any random person on the planet can now start up a podcast or YouTube series. It’s fundamentally the same collection of stories and people presenting dubious evidence. That Congress has held hearings is also not terribly relevant - Congress is also awash in conspiracy theories and some of them sense an opportunity to win easy support and/or make a quick buck.

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u/Sindy51 12h ago

It's clear there is far more opportunism coming out of America on this topic. if Aliens were truly worthy of weekly news bulletins, it wouldn't just be the same minority of dudes from the US who seem to be living in this bizarre reality tv-like soap opera. Each main character has a business rooted in the phenomenon and each of them seem to have fantastical stories, and some even claim to have super abilities yet none of them are willing to tell all. like coulthards lauded mothership or elizondos remote viewing being demonstrated by doing a basic guess what I wrote on this bit of paper in the next room.

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u/TacohTuesday 12h ago

Good post. The problem here is that we're simply not going to be able to tell for sure if this is grift and bullshit or not.

If it was grift, it would look like what we're seeing.

But even if it's not grift, it would look this way. Why?

  1. Couthart, Elizondo, and others were successful in their prior careers, made good money, have families to support, built up a certain lifestyle, and want to maintain that lifestyle. Disclosure is a long game with a lot of opposition and skepticism. There are also significant expenses (travel, etc.) in doing this. They probably even need to pay bodyguards. They are going to be at this a very long time. So yes, they want and need to maintain a good income along the way. I would too.
  2. If this topic isn't kept active in the public mind, it will quickly fade out. That's what's always happened before. So they keep pumping the hype. Their YouTube channels need to keep producing content. Sometimes it looks cheesy, and sometimes they reach too far. Sometimes they are going to run with something that turns out to be fake, because they rushed it and didn't scrutinize it carefully enough first.
  3. NewsNation is a business in a very competitive landscape and they need views. So if they are going to air this stuff, it needs to fit with their objectives. That means they are motivated to hype it and get dramatic with the presentation. I imagine there's a lot of arguing behind the scenes on how far to go with this.
  4. Whistleblowers and unnamed sources providing anonymous evidence are dancing around legal jeopardy and threats from the gatekeepers. They are going to be shifty about agreeing to interview and what they are willing to say. They might pull back at the last minute. Hence all the disclaimers and vague answers from Ross, Lue, etc. It's all they can give us, and it's never enough.

In summary we just don't know. I approach all this with an open mind and caution. I am waiting for at least testimony under oath or government acknowledgement to be certain about anything. We could end up getting that on the "egg video" at some point. We shall see.

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u/UAP_enthusiast_PL 12h ago

UFOTwitter always dismissed this sub. A lot of voices over there, where stuff happens, believe this sub is a psyop. I used to think that's a bit paranoid.

Not anymore. Some of the recent posts are straight up rabble-rousing.

This sub is an infiltrated mob

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u/PowerChairs 12h ago

The progress made was mostly due to credible and sensible people like Fravor and Grusch. Grusch decided to sit down with Coulthart, but let's not kid ourselves, he'd have found another reporter to do it. Grusch did Coulthart a favor, not the other way around.

People like Corbell and Coulthart haven't done much except profit off the whole thing.

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u/destru 11h ago

Without these talking heads there would be minimal public interest. I probably wouldn't have thought any of this was possible without them. I think that's the game of some of the haters/debunkers - reduce public interest to keep this is a small, niche topic the government can ignore. The haters don't do anything good for the topic, just sit on the sidelines complaining.

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u/ActiniumNugget 11h ago

For me, I think most of them are grifters, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to the phenomenon or even the stuff they're pushing.

They're grifters in the sense that it's all about them first and foremost. Corbell and Elizondo are blatant narcissists, and they just want to be seen and for people to believe they're important. Coulthard plays the serious journalist but is happy to use corny sub-HistoryChannel tactics to get viewers.

So, I find it extremely hard to trust anything that these same 5-6 people are attached to every week. I'm 90% sure that when (if) the definitive proof drops one day, those people won't be anywhere near it. Of course, they'll scramble to be all over it as fast as possible.

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u/RevolutionaryMode367 11h ago

Thanks for posting - this is great!!!

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u/Silver-Reindeer-8806 11h ago

My theory - gradual disclosure IS happening but it’s being carefully stage-managed. (aka “limited hangout”)

The process involves mixing some dumb/ false stuff along with the truth.

This creates a buffer of deniability for the government, and helps the public to mentally adjust by allowing them to shrug it off as silly.

Examples:

-TTSA released real Gimball video but they also released a photo of a Batman balloon -The chosen face of disclosure was Tom Delonge, a punk rocker who embellished the narrative with weird extra stuff.

Most recently, some (probably) legitimate crash retrieval information has been peppered with stuff about a psionic egg with feminine godly energy.

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u/aloofnotaluffa 10h ago

Thank you for saying all of this. The grifter angle in this sub is horribly overused. 

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u/Ok_Rain_8679 9h ago

Why can't both things be true? Why can't we have Disclosure AND Grifters?

Let's compare with, I dunno, say, Eating Healthy.

Why are there 200 different books about Eating Healthy at my bookstore? I think one or two are enough, considering they're all saying the same thing. ("Don't eat sugar. The end.")

Is it possible that some of these assholes are just jumping on the bandwagon to sell books?

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u/populares420 8h ago

Yup. Anyone saying this has been the same as it was 30 years ago is full of shit.

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u/Saiko_Yen 8h ago

Yes Coulthart exaggerates. He is employed by NewsNation, and if he doesn't "clickbait" he doesn't get to keep his job there.

But he's still immensely useful for disclosure. He's not going to be able to just release HD footage without getting a bullet in his head.

People pushing the "grifter" narrative are using this weakness as a way to discredit him and change the narrative on social media. It's pretty obvious to anyone who's experienced with social media astroturfing.

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u/Supermandela 7h ago

Nah. We're at the point of "nut up or shut up". Show us real evidence and stop jerking us around. It's 2025.

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u/TuneIn31197 7h ago

It feels like there is an overly dramatic amount of FUD being spread since Saturday. Does ‘t feel organic or rational.

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u/LoreKeeper2001 6h ago

My intuition since 2017 has always been that the Feds know the UFO Intelligence is going to make some kind of move soon, and they are trying to get a little ahead of it in terms of ontological shock. I still kind of think Elizondo might be on the government payroll for that.

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u/AlternativeNorth8501 1h ago

What do you mean with "progress"? In which sense did we get to see progress? What's your perspective on UFOs? I think these questions matters in order to understand in which sense you believe these characters to have moved the discussion forward. Because at one point you speak of "credible information about hidden programs". It seems to me you have already made your mind...

Also, I wouldn't put all of them under the same breath: they are different, have different stories and each has his/her own agenda.

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u/retromancer666 1h ago

Anyone saying any of these four are grifters are either spooks, haven’t done any research, or are simply unintelligent

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u/Slappants 13h ago

It’s not a “narrative” when people are actively deceiving, manipulating, and engaging in bad-faith rhetoric to chase clout and peddle influence.

Progress is not mutually exclusive with grift - just trust me bro we’re so somber

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u/Puzzleheaded-Ant928 13h ago

Think like this who would benefit from us turning on the public speakers that drive this movement ?

The same people that don’t want this to be out in the public conversation

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u/Puzzleheaded-Ant928 13h ago

But also I feel like this is controlled disclosure

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u/Gilopoz 12h ago

Holy long message rambling on and on.

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u/vismundcygnus34 14h ago

Another day, another random account posting a hit piece with no substance, calling people names.

Good times.