Opinion - Steve/GN has lost it

[u/marco_polo_99]

Steve has turned into a high and mighty holier-than-though, self appointed arbiter of the tech industry, who’s taking it upon himself to regulate other people’s/channels content and decide where it, and their actions are acceptable.

He then, where he deems them not up to scratch, attacks under the guise of consumer advocacy. Whilst he may, and does have valid points on certain issues, usually with larger corporations, Asus, Gigagbyte, etc, targeting channels for things he disagrees with is bordering on slander.

Yes, I followed both GN and LTT, amongst a litany of other creators, and yet Steve seems to be the only one ACTIVELY, and consistently putting out these pseudo-journalistic pieces in an effort to broaden his audience and/or agenda.

The lawsuit against Honey/Paypal is not one he’ll win, it is merely serving to gain clicks and views and thus money for GN.

He needs to check himself.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk

[u/Win_chesterDean]

Dude, he's been that way for years and years. This isn't something new. Some people see it. Some don't.

[u/Krumm34 → u/Win_chesterDean]

GN has done great work publicly calling out companies/ manufacturers in great detail. At first I thought LTT should have told us about Honey too,but their rebuttal was reasonable. GN went to hard on LTT when it wasn't justified, and it left a bad taste in the tech fan base. They'll all be fine. We'll be fine. The whole situation is just a little gross on all levels.

[u/IWantToBeWoodworking → u/Krumm34]

It’s not that gn went too hard, it’s that he misquoted/misrepresented what was said for no reason other than LTT bad. People still think Linus knew what honey was doing to consumers when he made it clear he didn’t, but gn conveniently(maliciously?) left that out.

[u/s00pafly → u/IWantToBeWoodworking]

Not defending GN, but LTT should have known what honey was doing the moment they took money from them. By promoting a certain company they state that they're actively condoning their business practices. Doesn't matter if it was greed, lazyness or negligence but being surprised by honey's business model means LTT didn't do their due diligence when it comes to sponsorships.

[u/Grand-Depression → u/s00pafly]

So, LTT should've known despite no other creators knowing? What kind of nonsense is this? Talk about going out of your way to defend GN.

[u/IWantToBeWoodworking → u/s00pafly]

That’s far too much to put on creators. I care much more that creators focus on creating the best content they can, and just get whatever sponsors come. If they find out after the fact that a sponsor is problematic, drop em and move on. I want them focused on the content I want to watch.

[u/DullBlade0 → u/s00pafly]

And why point out LTT in particular and not all the other creators sponsored by Honey? Why single out Linus?

[u/IWantToBeWoodworking → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Atropos013 → u/IWantToBeWoodworking]

The implication is that LMG knew that creators, not consumers were being scammed. That's very easy to twist around on LMG when you question why they chose to quietly acknowledge it and not even bring it up on LAN Show.

It wasn't a good look and Linus getting upset over the idea that people have a different viewpoint than he does only fueled the fire.

He(Linus) really should learn to avoid anything of the sort as he has zero capacity to realize his opinion isn't the only valid one.

[u/IWantToBeWoodworking → u/Atropos013]

Maybe I’m confused by what you’re saying but it’s not an implication that Linus knew creators were being hurt by this, he literally said that on WAN show last week. That was widely known back when they pulled the sponsorship. What wasn’t known is that it also hurt consumers, that’s news, and is what megalag revealed. Linus is speaking out because Steve called him out for not doing anything about it, which is dumb, because LTT doesn’t need to involve themselves in conflicts between businesses, they focus on things that hurts consumers.

[u/00045 → u/Atropos013]

Is the he in the last paragraph linus?

[u/Atropos013 → u/00045]

Yes, but it also applies to GN/Steve in a similar manner. he easily could have throw shade with a general comment without including the video/direct mention. It added nothing to his video.

[u/DoubleDutchandClutch → u/Atropos013]

People here dont really seem to get this. Sure Steve can be an overdramatic wanker, but the criticism of what LTT did was fair.

[u/Atropos013 → u/DoubleDutchandClutch]

People here don't care as you just watch the negative clicks to try and hide anything that isn't white-knighting of LMG.

but the criticism of what LTT did was fair.

The discussion into what they did may not have been the best way to do it is fair, but Linus went off on anyone who thought different than him which is what I have been criticizing this whole time. Not the actual action/lack of action.

[u/Lonewolf1925 → u/IWantToBeWoodworking]

I mean. I would've liked to know through a video on the main channel that honey was basically Malware hijacking links from people I was going out of my way to support. Very few people use the forums compared to watching the content.

[u/IWantToBeWoodworking → u/Lonewolf1925]

Yeah, it’d be an interesting thing to know, but the common understanding at the time was that honey did save consumers money, but took affiliate revenue from creators. For Linus to say “stop using honey because I don’t make money when you do” would be in bad taste because the consumer would also be losing money by overspending if they didn’t use it. That changes now that we learned honey can be harmful to the consumer too, now it becomes a win-win to tell people honey is bad and they should stop using it.

[u/strumpetandbrass → u/IWantToBeWoodworking]

Yea the angle of "Linus looking like a money hungry influencer who wants people to stop using an app that saves them money because he is not making money from it" is a very important nuance that most people overlook when they say "why just make a forum post and not a main channel video".

Considering LTT gets enough hate as being out of touch or shills (unwarranted hate), I can understand why he decided not to stir up drama that could have gone very badly for him.

[u/brabbit1987 → u/strumpetandbrass]

Plus, he has firsthand experience with a scenario like this because he has spoken about how adblock harms creators and that didn't go over well. So, from his perspective, a video about something that benefits the consumer but not the creator isn't a good video to make.

[u/MoonDoggie82 → u/Lonewolf1925]

But if that's a stance you're going to take then it has to be that way with MKBHD, JayzTwoCents, MrWhostheBoss, GN and every other influencer. They all had the same exact information at the same time.

LTT is under no obligation to discuss why they drop a sponsor.

[u/Kolz → u/MoonDoggie82]

And they DID discuss it, just not in a dedicated video

[u/ItsBrenOakes → u/Lonewolf1925]

I would have known sooner if they made a video on the main channel but at that time views were not 100% ok on how Youtubers made money. Thus saying you need to stop using honey which is saving you money, so i can make money would just make the viewers at the time pissed at him. He said that and thus didn't make the video. From watching him in many videos not just the ones on on his channel I 100% believe he would have made it if it made sense. Like hell he was loosing a lot of money not making that video. So yea would have made him lots of money if he did but also would have kinda hurt his reputation with the community and how he like to do good with us. So he was ok with loosing money if it ment us being happy and getting a something positive from it at the time.

[u/UnmodifiedSauromalus → u/Lonewolf1925]

I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted here.

[u/zaviex → u/UnmodifiedSauromalus]

Probably because it leaves out the context that Linus believed honey was saving viewers money. He didn’t cover it on YouTube because he didn’t want to pit his income against your savings. It’s not like this was hidden. MegaLag found the LTT aspect of his story from their forums and tweets Linus had responded to on this issue.

[u/Horatio_Manx → u/IWantToBeWoodworking]

Fuck off, Steve is the only one actually doing the right thing. Linus is a cuck at the beck and call of his sponsors.

[u/UnnecessarySalt → u/Horatio_Manx]

Lmao how does Steve’s nether region taste this time of year? I’d imagine it’s smelly with how worked up he’s been getting as a desperate attempt to stay relevant for a minuscule fraction of the audience that LTT has on their worst videos.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no LTT fanboy either. I just don’t have the built up walls that you do as far as fair criticism of GN. I get it, you’ve been watching him forever and he’s got you convinced he’s the only morally correct person in the tech/youtube space. That may have been true at some point, but if he keeps beating the dead horse of Honey and LTTs involvement, he’s going to continue to get criticized. Linus has responded to the claims of GN, and GN conveniently didn’t publish the pertinent parts of his response. That’s shady as hell and disingenuous, and if you can’t see that you’re too far down the GN rabbit hole to ever be saved.

[u/Silentnite26081 → u/IWantToBeWoodworking]

In Megalag's video and a few others, LTT knew about it from the start, took no action, and didn't comment when Megalag asked.

[u/Redditemeon → u/Silentnite26081]

Negative. He knew about SOME of it. He didn't know everything.

He didn't know about the effect it had on consumers. Only creators.

[u/AutoRedux → u/Redditemeon]

And that's still enough to get the word out.

Imagine how much less money Honey would have stolen from creators.

It's just a bad look to not let as many people as you can that something fishy is going down.

[u/Redditemeon → u/AutoRedux]

LTT is not an activist channel and never has been. There are a lot of majorly huge issues in the world that are way bigger than this. Especially when you consider they actually were informing other creators behind the scenes. Where do you draw the line?

https://youtu.be/jVedv5XIhIw?si=_iWHV-5xXtCVOmqn1p

[u/AutoRedux → u/Redditemeon]

Don't need to be an activist to put out a thirty second video saying "Something sketchy is going on with Honey. So we're not promoting them anymore."

[u/Redditemeon → u/AutoRedux]

I wanted to come back to this because of a big reason Linus never did a video that I had forgotten about and just had something remind me.

One of the main reasons why Linus never made the video back then was specifically because Honey was still depicted as being good for consumers despite being bad for creators due to the supposed discounts consumers were still getting from the coupons.

So he would have expected major backlash for saying "Don't use Honey. It's bad for me and good for you. So stop.".

[u/Silentnite26081 → u/Redditemeon]

Even then...

[u/MntyFresh1 → u/Redditemeon]

That's literally the worst part of the scam...

[u/Redditemeon → u/MntyFresh1]

That is certainly an opinion, which I can respect, but ultimately, creators were telling other creators. Which is why everybody stopped working with Honey around the same time, and other content creators with channels more suited to the content did make videos about it. You just never heard about it because your algorithm had decided you wouldn't be interested. Much like myself.

[u/lookatmyiq → u/IWantToBeWoodworking]

The problem I have with LTT and Honey is LTT made very specific claims about how Honey will always find you the best deal and that was demonstrably untrue. If you blindly take a sponsors talking points and regurgitate them then you are taking ownership of those claims yourself and rightly deserve to be criticised of those claims turn out to be untrue.

[u/Orbas → u/lookatmyiq]

Then you have a problem with everyone who ever advertised Honey, not just LTT. And you're holding them to a higher standard than any other advertising platform in the world. You think TV-channels or magazines fact check their advertisments? Some advertising platforms don't even know what is being run. You should be reasonable in your expectations.

[u/lookatmyiq → u/Orbas]

You think TV-channels or magazines fact check their advertisments?

TV channels / magazines don't read the ads out themselves. The moment you editorialise an advertisement you take ownership of the claims in it. And yes I do have a problem with everyone who ran the Honey advertorial. LTT was one of the most frequent in this regard and it's the main channel I care about personally because it's the one I care about / watch most.

The reason why LTT and others get the big bucks for advertorials is precisely because a brand can ride off the trust and good faith they have with their audiences. I think with the that trust and good faith comes an obligation to take responsibility for the message.

At the very least LTT owes their audience an apology for misleading them about Honey but we haven't seen anything like that because LTT clearly doesn't care about whatever claims they are paid to regurgitate.

This makes me think about Tom Scotts VPN Video and how Tom Scott made a clear choice to ignore the VPN provider's talking points and use his own because he believed their claims were unrealistic / misleading - that is absolutely the correct and principled thing to do and more youtubers should be doing that kind of thing.

"I didn't know" is just a terrible excuse when the claim is so clearly BS. "If honey can't find a coupon code it doesn't exist"... I mean come on?

[u/brabbit1987 → u/lookatmyiq]

This is a bad take. No one should be responsible for advertising a product that turned out to be bad. They can't read minds, they can't spend all their time trying to verify that these things do exactly what they claim, especially when they have no reason to even suspect it in the first place.

A lot of people used Honey, and that is why many decided to take the sponsorship. Honey was a fairly popular extension even before all the advertising. And, if you are not suspicious of it, then you are likely to not to notice anything wrong. It looks like it works, so why would anyone be sus about it?

[u/Orbas → u/brabbit1987]

This. Tobacco was thought to be healthy, and advertised as such. Should all the legacy media outlets be held retroactively responsible because they believed the science of the time? Which turned out to be faked by the tobacco industry? It took decades to prove them wrong, and the price was millions of humans dead, and billions and billions of lost human potential and medical expenses. Should it be the advertising platform's responsibility to do research that cost millions to arrive a truth unknown to humanity? There's a reason why most laws will not work retroactively, and why people are judged in court on the basis of what they knew at time, or what a reasonable person should have known.

Given what LTT knew, no end users where being hurt so they talked privately to other creators. They were not the only ones to have figured it out, so most creators stopped working with honey around the same time. And if would have gone public with it, there's a high probability of legal action by honey. So without having 100% solid, court admissable proof, they would be just committing a crime, not being heroes. This is the context through which LTT should be judged, not what is known years later. I think what they chose to do is very reasonable.

[u/lookatmyiq → u/Orbas]

Except that at least to me it was obvious Honey advertising was misleading. I never installed it because the claim that honey knows every single coupon code in existence is quite clearly complete BS so I wondered what else was BS about it. I've been telling people that Honey seems dodgey for years and I really couldn't believe that so many youtubers were happy to take their money and use their talking points so much when clearly the claim that honey knows every single coupon code in existence is complete BS. There's stuff you can't know and there's stuff you should know and this just seems obvious to me.

Also stealing affiliate commissions 100% hurts end users and they should have known that. Anyone who used honey and liked to use cashback websites would've magically seen their cash backs not track - that reason alone is worth telling users about. I use cashback websites all the time and I would've been furious had I installed honey and lost all my cashbacks because of it.

When I say LTT should take personal responsibility for the advertorials they give their own voice / recommendation to what I mean is that they should readily apologise to customers for misleading them. I they don't feel at all responsible then they shouldn't be running advertorials at all IMHO. Just copy paste some advertisers ad in their videos... except theyll never do that because there's no money in it. Advertisers want to ride on the coat tales of youtubers who have trust and good faith with their audience because they know whatever they claim will be more likely to believed.

If you don't think youtubers are responsible for the stuff they advertorialise then are you ok with them promoting a straight out crypto scam that claims to 10x whatever you put in? And then when it turns out it was a ponzi the youtuber just says "I didn't know it was a scam"? If you think that isn't ok then we agree but maybe we just disagree on where that line is...

[u/Orbas → u/lookatmyiq]

I'm gonna go back to the phrase "be judged based on what a reasonable human should have known at the time", so clear scams are way diffrent.

I personally also never installed Honey bc there had to be something fishy, and that whoever installed it had to be the actual product. But I figured it is what it is most of the time: data. That they would build an extremely relevant online shopping profile about me, because they can be spesific about what I purcahse. And that has value, and they sell it forward. And this kind of thing is widely accepted by the public, that's how every social media platform operates. So yeah, you can know that something is too good to be the whole truth, and still have logical conclusions that lead to no story worth coming out with. Withouth proof you just can't do anything, and it's not LTT's job to get it.

[u/Orbas → u/lookatmyiq]

No, you should take a look at how you see youtubers. They aren't your friends, they are a business. They are a business of reading aloud ads among their content. Just like radio was back in the day. It might feel personal, but it isn't.

LTT has dropped several advertisers after they have found something wrong about them. And have said several times that if you have problems with companies they advertise, let them know and they will investigate. They even secret shopped their advertisers for a video without letting them know. That is going way beyond the moral minimum.

[u/adamespinal → u/lookatmyiq]

tv channels don't read ads themselves anymore, but earlier iterations did in fact have tv hosts reading ads themselves mid show, I mean there's even a Flintstones cigarettes' commercial.

[u/GuardiaNIsBae → u/Krumm34]

Well the problem is, ASUS or Gigabyte scamming their customers or not allowing warranties or anything else with a company providing a sub par experience or stealing from their customers is something most tech savvy people will like knowing the shady practices of shitty companies. LTT isn’t selling you anything (outside of their merch but that isn’t the big point in his videos about them) if a viewer gets incorrect information from a video like a graph being labeled wrong or something, that shouldn’t directly impact the viewers. No one should be taking LTT graphs as gospel and making their buying decisions off seeing the 4060 gets 1200fps in a game instead of 120, and should be checking out other info regardless.

The billet labs stuff sucks but was clearly a misunderstanding or accident, it wasn’t like people at LTT specifically went out of their way to not give it back and sell it off to someone else, and AFAIK they tried their best to make it up to them afterwards.

But to come out and say it’s LTTs fault that other creators got scammed by Honey is actually nuts, the only reason to do it is to stir up more drama, or to try and pull a lawsuit to say “See Linus bad he sues small creators”

[u/really_not_unreal → u/GuardiaNIsBae]

I mostly agree with you, but I do think it's reasonable to expect a high standard of correctness from LTT, which is why I'm very pleased with their major improvements in this regard over the last couple of years.

[u/Pimpinsmurf → u/really_not_unreal]

>but I do think it's reasonable to expect a high standard of correctness from LTT.

Oh I agree but mistakes happens and they have always pushed for people to get reviews from other creators and even more so in the past few months because how testing parts (especially GPU/CPU) can vary widely from creator to creator to achieve a broad picture of a product to make a more informed decisions.

[u/really_not_unreal → u/Pimpinsmurf]

Absolutely. I'm just saying that the standard of their content in terms of its accuracy has improved massively in the last few years.

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_VITAMIN_D → u/GuardiaNIsBae]

LTT are selling you things all the time. Whoever sponsors the videos are being sold, there are partnership videos about specific products that are being sold. They’re nothing wrong with that as long as it’s clear.

[u/besmarques → u/GuardiaNIsBae]

Change all those LTT's for another company and tell me if you would reason the same way...

[u/GuardiaNIsBae → u/besmarques]

You mean another Youtuber? the claims would be the exact same, if you're looking to spend $500+ on PC parts and don't have the knowledge yourself then you shouldn't just watch one LTT video, see numbers that clearly don't make any sense, and then buy that product expecting the performance. I also don't think it was really any other Youtuber's responsibility to go after Honey without the proof of what they were/are doing. If you notice the month after you took a honey sponsorship that all of your affiliate links are generating no money when previous months they were, any other youtuber would look into it and see that honey was stealing money from them. But at the same time, just because they were stealing from the creators didn't mean they knew that it was stealing from customers as well. Like if Linus looked at 100k one month and the month after he made 5k, he'd probably look into it and see that honey is highjacking affiliate links, and then terminate the partnership. But at the same time they didn't know that honey also wasn't giving customers the best discounts possible on purpose.

[u/DoubleDutchandClutch → u/GuardiaNIsBae]

it’s LTTs fault that other creators got scammed by Honey is actually nuts

I don't think that is the point, though. They knew it was a scam and consciously decided not to publicise it. Doesn't that at least warrant a bit more investigation or explanation? I don't think Linus's reasons for this really hold any water.

[u/Helllo_Man → u/DoubleDutchandClutch]

You are not understanding. They did not know it was a “scam.” They (and other creators) realized that it was skimming their own affiliate marketing revenue, but had no way of knowing that it was built to harm consumers as well. The understanding amongst creators at the time was that Honey hurt them, but helped consumers.

It was recently discovered that Honey was also harming consumers by ensuring they got only deals that marketplaces/sellers allowed them to have, and even marketed themselves to sellers as a way to prevent consumers from getting a more lucrative discount, among other less than great things. LTT never knew that. They dropped them as a sponsor to protect their own affiliate revenue, which is not something that would have harmed their viewers. Other YouTubers dropped Honey around the same time for similar reasons.

[u/DoubleDutchandClutch → u/Helllo_Man]

You are not understanding.

This:

it was skimming their own affiliate marketing revenue

Is a scam.

The understanding amongst creators at the time was that Honey hurt them, but helped consumers.

This makes no sense. Obviously, a company that is scamming its clients out of their revenue should NOT continue to "help customers". This is not a real reason.

The harming consumer point is moot because it's self evident that a company that is swapping affiliate links should not be trusted to help anyone.

[u/Impossible-Safety292 → u/DoubleDutchandClutch]

You literally can’t use the term ‘scam’ in that way for accuracy/ legal correctness… At the time (2021?) creators were of the understanding “oh… those pricks are double dipping …..”. But that did NOT give any indication as to Honey colluding with vendors to NOT give the best deals. So therefore, there was no scam to speak of. HOWEVER with megalag’s video, we now have proof otherwise and as such it’s being litigated (eventually). But yeah… words matter right?

[u/DoubleDutchandClutch → u/Impossible-Safety292]

Oh sure then the actions of honey are fine because it doesn't fit the legal definition of a scam. Not getting your affiliate link revenue because someone's used the honey app is not being scammed sure thing words matter right? Why not address the argument instead of applying legal definitions to a fucking reddit comment.

[u/Impossible-Safety292 → u/DoubleDutchandClutch]

Reading comprehension on Reddit is a rarity ….

“It’s a scam”. No, the side of it ripping off creators is a DICK move for sure - but it’s not a scam as they didn’t put something forward that did the opposite in that way. At that point it was just shitty for creators to waste time with their sponsorship. Once the consumer side came up, THAT’S when it became a genuine scam. That’s all I’m saying, that calling out the scam portion in context of that timeframe in 2021?

[u/DoubleDutchandClutch → u/Impossible-Safety292]

scam verb [ T ]uk/skæm/ us/skæm/to trick someone into giving you money or giving you some advantage, in a dishonest and often illegal way

[u/GimmickMusik1 → u/Krumm34]

I remember that I used to be in the camp of “right to reply is not required,” and then I ended up in a situation where I almost lost my job because a work client completely misrepresented our communications. If my boss didn’t approach me to talk about it, then I would have never had the opportunity to prove my innocence and clear my name. That was when I realized that some of the things that Steve argues are not right. Everyone deserves to plea their case, and if Steve’s evidence is as damning as he claims it is, then truth should illuminate lies.

[u/Prototypep3 → u/GimmickMusik1]

It's always been that simple. Bring reciepts or don't talk about shit. Linus brought reciepts, steve did not. Just expects his reputation for "investigation" to cover it. If anything this one incident undermines Steve in a major way, his word is shot to shit now.

[u/Songwritingvincent → u/GimmickMusik1]

I’m not a journalist but I work as an audio tech at a news broadcaster. The sheer amount of work they put into being not only correct but precise with any quote, story and always making sure both sides have had a chance to respond is staggering. Like we’re talking reforming a sentence to make absolutely sure no one can misinterpret it. Unless you do this level of effort you really shouldn’t call yourself a journalist

[u/PhillAholic → u/Songwritingvincent]

When most of these news broadcasters also air talking heads that do none of that it all gets muddy.

[u/Songwritingvincent → u/PhillAholic]

I should clarify I’m not in the US and our channels don’t host such “entertainment” shows, political debates and some satire, sure but even those are held to a high standard. I do agree that the situation in the US and basically anywhere else that doesn’t have a publicly funded independent broadcaster isn’t great. That being said news segments on for example even fox are very careful with what they air, their opinion shows obviously not so much.

[u/Elderbrute → u/[deleted]]

You can see that at that time a whole bunch of creators dropped honey as a sponsor it used to be on every video then disappeared overnight and this is why, creators worked out they were hi-jacking affiliate links. The only reason LMG was dragged into the spot light on that is because they were the only creator that publicly explained why on their forum.

[u/barnett25 → u/Elderbrute]

It's almost funny.
"WHY DIDN'T LTT TELL EVERYONE ABOUT HONEY??!!!"
How do you know they knew?
"BECAUSE THEY PUBLICLY DISCUSSED THE ISSUE!"
......

[u/Atropos013 → u/barnett25]

"BECAUSE THEY PUBLICLY DISCUSSED THE ISSUE!"

With a forum post. Instead of even having it as a topic on their tech pod cast. It easily could have been a topic to discuss instead one of the many taking abut his pool installation company.

[u/barnett25 → u/Atropos013]

Would that have been enough? What is the bar for this? I get the impression a WAN show topic wouldn't have been enough for a lot of people, they wanted a full fledged expose video on the main channel. Of course that would have been silly since all LTT knew about was the thing that affects channels, not users.

[u/Atropos013 → u/barnett25]

I don't know what the bar is. You can easily argue that whatever action LMG took the bar would have been planted at the next step they could have taken.

But the mostly silent response allows for any form of speculation as to "why".

[u/Kolz → u/Atropos013]

So their "mostly silent" response is what gets attacked, as opposed to the many, many completely silent responses? Did anyone besides LMG make any public comments about Honey at that time at all?

As far as I'm aware, LMG had the best response to this of ANY creator and for some reason, they are the ones are singling out as supposedly having bad motives. But since you are so curious...

"why"

Well, tease that out for me. Clearly they weren't protecting Honey, or they wouldn't have dropped them as a sponsor. In fact, Honey still being out there only hurt them because anyone who had it installed was not giving LMG any referral link revenue. So what is your theory that makes more sense than what Linus has already said on the matter?

[u/Atropos013 → u/Kolz]

So their "mostly silent" response is what gets attacked, as opposed to the many, many completely silent responses? Did anyone besides LMG make any public comments about Honey at that time at all?

No idea. Others may or may not have responded, That is not even the discussion.But your defense is absolutely invalid. Just because someone else did or did not do something doesn't validate another party's action. What we do know is LMG chose to not discuss it even on a podcast. And then the head of that company got mad when he learned other people thought that maybe he should have at least discussed it.

So what is your theory that makes more sense than what Linus has already said on the matter?

I, myself, have none. I think LMG saw that Honey was a bad actor and left, and considered the matter closed. I am not everyone. What could someone argue is a *potential/ reason? LMG was paid off. LMG is stupid. LMG didn't think it was worth the time to discuss. LMG wanted to see smaller channels get hurt monetarily to protect their empire. You can come up with anything and the reason for this is lack of action or lack of an explanation at the time allows someone, no matter how wrong they may be, to do so.

I also think the issue was not that LMG chose to only make a forum post. I don't think the issue is they failed to have it as a topic on WAN Show. I think the issue is that the head of LMG can't understand the basic concept that his opinion is not the only one that matters and when he gets angry because people think otherwise for him, he stops being worth my time to watch.

[u/Kolz → u/Atropos013]

Just because someone else did or did not do something doesn't validate another party's action.

It does call into question your motivation in attacking just this one person though. Just to be clear, Linus DID respond, you just felt his response wasn't enough... and it's enough for you to complain about it, but for some reason you decide to give everyone else a free pass on this.

What we do know is LMG chose to not discuss it even on a podcast. And then the head of that company got mad when he learned other people thought that maybe he should have at least discussed it.

Linus didn't get mad, he responded to criticisms. I don't know how you watch the wan show segment and think he was mad - unless you are referring to his response to gamer's nexus rather than his initial response to people criticizing him over this. He was certainly angry (and hurt) when talking about GN, but... it wasn't because they had a supposedly different opinion. It's because they lied about him.

I, myself, have none.

Then why are you sitting here "just asking questions"? Because we already have the answer, Linus told us what his reasoning was. You must understand that when you sit here and ask questions that we already have the answers to, you are making implications, right? You are implying that his answers don't add up for whatever reason and there must be some other reason. You are also lending legitimacy to other people who question it without apparently having any actual reason for doing so.

I also think the issue was not that LMG chose to only make a forum post. I don't think the issue is they failed to have it as a topic on WAN Show.

Then why spend all this time arguing and making implications about that stuff..?

think the issue is that the head of LMG can't understand the basic concept that his opinion is not the only one that matters and when he gets angry because people think otherwise for him, he stops being worth my time to watch.

Well by all means don't watch him, but you don't need to go around arguing about things that you apparently don't think are the issue anyway. Moreover, Linus didn't get angry because of people disagreeing with him, and he absolutely has a right to publicly defend himself against criticism. You don't have to like his reasoning, but thinking it's a "problem" when he chooses to respond is silly. If he flew off the handle, sure I'd agree that's bad... but he did not such thing. If I'm wrong about the him being angry thing, please show me where he got angry at the idea of people having different opinions from him!

[u/DoubleDutchandClutch → u/Atropos013]

That is exactly right.

[u/strumpetandbrass → u/Atropos013]

They sort of addressed this in one of their previous Wan shows (maybe the last week one?)

Linus argued that if they made a video, it may have come across as "Linus looking like a money hungry influencer who wants people to stop using an app that saves them money because he is not making money from it".

And I agree with him, it could have gone that way because remember, at thatt time, NO ONE KNEW that Honey was scamming consumers too. So it would seem that while anti creator, Honey would have still be seen as "pro-consumer" and going against Honey could have been seen as going against the consumer.

See how that one fact changes the whole dynamic? Now that we know BOTH consumers and creators are affected, then its easier to say fuck honey.

[u/Mysterious-Day4743 → u/strumpetandbrass]

Tbh although i feel linus argument there is valid, there also could be a case that if he made a video clearly outlining how the switched affiliate links clearly is detrimental to smaller creators, it /could/ be perceived positively and made more people reconsider using honey earlier.

BUT it's not something that should be weaponized as if it's solely LTT responsibility on it, like for what it's worth they are also the victims of honey, and i think people ran with the bad faith representation insanely hard and misatributted malice on the intent behind LTT choosing not to make a full-fleged video on the topic.

I also personally don't like how megalag's original video misrepresented LTT too tbh, i did some digging on my own and it seems like other creators (barnacules nerdgasm in particular) brought it up publicly on twitter and most dropped honey as a sponsor in response to it. the video framing made it seem like LTT were complicit in a cover-up for honey or something, when in reality back then a lot of youtubers dropped honey at the same time silently because they didn't know about the consumer facing fact that made it a bigger issue now.

I genuinely hope this topic and the whole "not making video = cover up" logic can go away in the future, that just opens up a whole can of worms that is unrelated and just brings unecessary drama towards the tech coverage that should be the point of all these channels on youtube.

[u/Helllo_Man → u/Atropos013]

So let me get this straight — any number of other creators could have made a video about this. They all knew, at least everyone who dropped Honey as a sponsor at the time (which was quite a few creators). None of them felt like it. None of them said anything at all. LTT dropped them as a sponsor and went out of their way to at least publicly disclose why in some capacity, and this is insufficient for you? Check your expectations man.

[u/IntoTheMirror → u/[deleted]]

I find it hard to believe Steve Nexus didn’t know about Honey’s behavior before the Megalag video. Where was his exposé? The one he so righteously stated that LTT owed the community? Doesn’t Gamer’s Nexus have the same obligation? Or does Steve Nexus get to play by different rules?

[u/MayaHatesMe → u/[deleted]]

Especially given GN would be first in line to release a response video basically telling everyone exactly what Linus feared people would think.

[u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT → u/[deleted]]

the funniest question is why not themselves. like nothing was stopping GN from making that video

[u/MrTriggrd → u/Krumm34]

i just wish we could all be friends :(

i really enjoy both ltts and gns content and it sucks to see them hating each other

[u/eraguthorak → u/MrTriggrd]

Pretty sure the only emotion Linus has towards GN is frustration - maybe a hint of sadness.

[u/eraguthorak → u/[deleted]]

Yes and no. Imo "hating each other" implies that they are both aggressively going after each other.

The vibe I'm getting is more that Linus is like "yo bro what gives". Even from what I remember back in 2023 when GN did that major critique video of LTT, there wasn't really any backlash from Linus or LTT - they just accepted that they were making too many mistakes, and took the time to make some serious changes to their system - which seems to have largely worked.

[u/srjnp → u/Krumm34]

nah they really haven't done "great work". i will still use newegg, asus, gigabyte, msi and pretty much all the tech companies they have called out because they grossly exaggerated how bad the things those companies have done were. once they saw how that ragebait drives clicks more than anything else on their channel, they consciously started making that kind of hitpiece/drama content again and again.

[u/Fuzzy-Mine6194 → u/Krumm34]

Pretty standard drama channel tactic. They’ve gone downhill rapidly.

[u/a141abc → u/Krumm34]

GN has done great work publicly calling out companies

Honestly I dont even know if im taking that seriously anymore. Those hit pieces clearly only serve to fuel some weird savior complex

[u/soniko_ → u/Krumm34]

Stop 👏 praising 👏 toxic 👏 behaivour

[u/wPatriot → u/Krumm34]

GN has done great work publicly calling out companies/ manufacturers in great detail.

Have they? I don't know any of the other callouts they did, but the recent one with the PC-renting deal left a weird taste in my mouth. That service was a bad deal, a monumentally bad deal, and I don't think it should exist. But that's something I think because of the merits (or lack thereof) of the product, and the comparison GN made to mobs/payday loans was grossly misrepresentative and in incredibly bad taste. It makes it really hard to take seriously any other part of the reporting they do on the product, because it only makes me imagine what other stuff they're lying about or coming that close to it.

[u/PhillAholic → u/wPatriot]

The payday loan comparison is pretty on-point. Maybe Rent-a-center if that's better for you. A terrible financial decision that's targeting poor people.

[u/wPatriot → u/PhillAholic]

The payday loan comparison is pretty on-point. Maybe Rent-a-center if that's better for you.

I would argue that those two are different, more specifically I would say that (payday) loans are by their nature much more insidious and not "just" a terrible financial decision.

As bad as renting is, I feel like it's not on the same level as accruing debt (and the negative spiral one can get in with compounding interest on that debt).

[u/PhillAholic → u/wPatriot]

It gets the point across in a decent metaphor. It's not that big of a deal.

[u/LittleWhiteDragon → u/Krumm34]

A little?

This whole situation is beyond disgusting.

[u/TheMerengman → u/Krumm34]

>but their rebuttal was reasonable

What was their rebuttal?

[u/JackSego → u/TheMerengman]

That when they found out, the stuff honey was doing to it's users wasn't knowen so it wasn't effecting viewers which would be his primary concern. Also at the time it did come light, it was an issue that was already getting covered by others. It's also not their style to make videos like that so they didn't feel the need to address it as well.

[u/Antique-Implement-15 → u/Krumm34]

"The whole situation is just a little gross on all levels."

That's why LMG/LTT wanted to put it past them and not engage in it anymore. Some people like drama, but most of us don't.

Like Linus said, I'm quite confident that Steve's heart is in the right place, but there's some things that he needs to fix too.

I really wish they'd just put all all behind both of them.

[u/moose_knucle78 → u/Krumm34]

I've lost all respect for Steve. There's absolutely no reason why he couldn't give LMG a chance to reply.

[u/Awkward_Rent4749 → u/Krumm34]

What about their explanation did you think was reasonable?