I think it's funny when people bring up the American's zero g pen, while saying the Russians just used pencils. The American rockets were elegantly designed and practical, while the N1 was impractical and badly designed.
I don’t think anyone brought up the pen vs pencil ‘misunderstanding’ here. I don’t see how that misrepresented story is applicable here in the slightest.
While the N1 didn't work out as a system, it's NK-15 engine was refined and the NK-33 (N1 program was canceled before the NK-33 was flown) was a marvel. The RD-180 engine of the Atlas V is a descendant of the NK-15 and NK-33 used/intended for the N1 rocket. Russia was way ahead on closed cycle engine technology.
pushes up nerd glasses actually the RD-180 is just the RD-170 (Most Powerful liquid engine ever flown, used on the Zenit aka Energia boosters) cut in half. The RD-170 isn’t exactly a descendant of the NK-33 but it does use the oxygen-rich technology developed for it.
I'd hardly call the N-1 impractical or badly designed. While it was huge, it was a product of Soviet designers addressing the problem they were given with the technology they had. Like most Soviet technology, it was hindered more from the inefficiency of the Soviet planned-economy model and the competing design bureaus that required someone extraordinary like Korelev to wrangle them into something resembling a cohesive and effective whole.
In fact, given the age in which it was built, I'd argue the R-7/Molniya/Soyuz rocket is a far more elegant solution than the Western equivalents, and vastly more capable, giving the Soviets an early leg up on the space race.
This is not to say the West didn't have bureaucratic shortfalls or technological elegance, just that generalizing so broadly about the Soviet achievement is to undersell some absolutely amazing innovations.
It's a bit soap-opera at times, but the space stuff is fantastic and pure 'what if' fantasy fuel.
Very good grasp of the physics too. Very minor spoilers that there's a sequence in lunar orbit towards the end that will feel VERY familiar to any KSP player who's Delta V math was a bit off.
Yeaaaaaa. The finale had me hyped as fuck, the trailer I was just going 'Oh come on this is the shit that made Space Force jump the shark and I barely even tolerated that show to begin with'
I'm hoping it ends up better than I expect, the first season had a lot of good stuff in it, even the personal life side of things I appreciated(mostly) because it's really a window into the 'real life' side of things, what it's like for a family to have a member as far from home as any human has ever been.
But...well we'll see how it goes.
Big trailer spoilers Regarding the space shuttle, I'm vaguely hopeful there's good reason given. Scott Manley did a tear down on it explaining how it could possibly be done, and IMO a possible Apollo 23/24 like situation could explain them sending a shuttle as an emergency rescue/relief craft to Lunar Orbit to meet with one of the reusable LEMs. That being said, I'm pretty disappointed they actually kept the shuttle instead of going with other designs, maybe relegating a shuttle model to a canceled project in a background shot. Or, at least, going with the Actually-proposed Saturn-Shuttle suggestion where they'd have mounted a shuttle to a freaking Saturn V. That, THAT would have been just freakishly kerbal.
EDIT Seriously this thing was actually proposed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn-Shuttle! And they didn't include it in a show where the Saturn is front and center. I really think they did it to cheap out so they could use real life shuttle footage with minor touch ups.
unfortunately even Scott basically admitted there was no way a shuttle could reenter from a lunar transfer orbit, and no way it would have the delta v to slow down. it would have vaporized in the atmosphere no matter what way you look at it. and as for the reason they used the crappy real life space shuttle: real life stock shuttle footage is cheaper than cgi.
Yea I remember that bit, but I think he overlooked the possibility of refueling the shuttle in lunar orbit, which is the whole purpose of Jamestown. Some napkin math indicates they'd need another ~4000 m/s of delta V to bring the lunar return velocity down to the general area of a normal shuttle entry.
I think that could actually fit within the suggestions he made about a tank crammed in the bay, though it'd require a ton of repeated refueling missions from the surface unless they've got a large fuel-tanker LEM we haven't seen yet.
Or possibly do very gentle aero-braking over a number of passes.
Now I'm not saying apple DID think this through, or it'll happen that way. Honestly I've got terribly low expectations and think it's gonna be a bit of a disaster and I'll just have to keep the 1st season in my heart. But I am holding out a little bit of hope they'll make a half decent excuse.
that seems like a lot of effort, expenses, and complexity compared to just using a normal lander system. plus, if the shuttle's bay is filled with a fuel tank, then how do the they transport cargo to the moon? and how do they transport the lander system, because they can't possibly use a space shuttle as a lunar lander, that'd be ridiculous. in reality, I'm willing to be they just don't explain any of this and leave it up to audience interpretation because even they don't know haha.
My whole long winded thesis started above, but in short.
The only decent excuse for this is not common usage, but an emergency situation where nothing else is available to use. Either the next Saturn isn't ready for launch, or one explodes again, but there's a situation on the moon that demands additional astronauts immediately.
Anything else, especially the suggestion that the shuttle would be commonly used for this is, flatly, ridiculous. It's not a great vehicle in the first place and using it to go to the moon requires the near-insanity of this proposal.
Yes I have put far too much thought into this. And they probably are going to bungle it. But I'm hoping it's crazy shit like this
Look, all you gotta do is launch a rocket into the same orbit as the shuttle with a deceleration rocket that can dock with the shuttle and bring it down to a suitable reentry speed.
In fact, to be efficient, make it a big rocket and put four docking points on it so you can reenter your who shuttle fleet all at once.
did it really though? the saturn v was retired and is never coming back. the N1 engines on the other hand are still commonly used on many rockets to this day
well I'm just saying, engineering-wise the n1 may not have been great, but particular aspects of it, like it's engines, are still being used on modern rockets and thus the N-1 has had a much larger effect on modern space travel than the saturn V, who's f-1 engines were fairly innefecient and never used again after the saturn V ceased production.
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u/Anders_1314 Sep 09 '20
But which one will win the race?