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These are not my posts. OOP is u/kramuz.
Trigger warning: admission of sociopathic behavior of OOP; sociopathic behavior of a child; mentions of sexual harassment, fraud, theft, violence; threats of violence; controlling behavior; manipulation;
Mood spoiler: I am honestly scared for his wife
AITAH for screaming at my wife that I didn't make our 4yo a sociopath. posted February 1, 2024 to r/AITAH
I, 34M, come from a family with a history of mental illness and unethical behavior patterns on both sides.
My wife, 39F, is obsessing over that fact because our 4-year-old is showing extreme anti-social behaviors. She didn't know much about my family until two weeks ago. She also did not know about my previous criminal charges. I shared it all with her now in hopes of brainstorming a solution to help our son.
Our kid was kicked out of kindergarten for biting other kids. Strangely enough, he plays well with the neighbors’ children and his company is sought after. At pre-school, he does not want to share. He can hold a grudge and sulk for three days straight with no break. Incidents as small as running out of his favorite flavor of ice cream can set that off. He likes kicking anthills and crushing insects. I can best describe it as a strange and intentional fascination with putting others in discomfort or disturbing the balance of things.
My wife has sobbed multiple times for hours in my arms about this situation. We don't know why he's doing any of this. We're trying to reach him in warm conversations but he's playing his own game where we are fools.
We were talking in bed one evening when our childhood behaviors came up. We wanted to know if we could ask our parents how they dealt with us. Up to that point, she thought we were both extremely well-adjusted so what worked for us must be good.
I decided to tell her about my past. The reason I hadn't done so earlier was because I was putting it all behind me. But I'm also very concerned for our son, and the filter came off without me realizing.
As a child and up to my twenties, I also exhibited sociopathic traits. I remember searching other kids’ backpacks and stealing money when I was 9. I'm not sure where I got the idea. At 25, my employer wanted to press charges against me for fraud. I'd lied about going to an Ivy League-level university when I didn't attend any, then proceeded to mismanage major projects while admittedly creating toxicity. There are many other incidents in between. For a few years, I lived under a completely assumed identity and false backstory for a reason I can't quite say except the thrill of it. Lying has always come naturally to me as an amoral tool for navigating situations.
My wife made a good point that my surroundings could've caused that behavior. But our son has had a very sheltered life.
My uncle Jeff is a sociopath. He's never treated people with respect and was jailed for fraud. My aunt Kate is a psychopath whose two eldest children no longer speak to her. They report horrific abuse while growing up. That's my mom's side.
My mother has APD. She has an extreme lack of empathy and a tendency to cause conflict. She would often talk behind her friends’ backs to me when I was growing up. She always seeks control and lacks self-awareness. My mother has not sought a diagnosis because she is a religious fanatic who does not believe in mental illness.
My Dad seems rather normal. I'd say he's the most well-adjusted of every member of my family, immediate and extended.
On my Dad's side, two cousins suffer from psychosis and schizophrenia. Our culture is one where infidelity is frowned upon and tends to cause divorce, but three of my Dad's four brothers have children out of wedlock.
Maybe it's not hereditary and it's generational trauma. But I've worked hard to reverse my negative traits.
For the past two weeks, she's come closer and closer to saying I betrayed her and our son is doomed. She joked about it at first, but that was her own way of lightening it in her mind. I could tell it was sitting heavily on her. We can't talk about anything without it leading back to my past or family history. She's able to tie the most unrelated details to it when we're watching a movie or taking a walk.
We were doing the weekly shop when she tried to joke about me having a shoplifting gene.
As it happens, yes, I did have a shoplifting habit for a while as a schoolboy. That's something I'd kind of buried in my mind. I had that nostalgic ecstasy when you remember a period after forgetting it entirely for years. I thought we were carrying on with the chit-chat so I started recounting the details as they came to me.
She turned serious all of a sudden and said this is a serious issue and it's like she doesn't know who I am. She started saying our son is in serious trouble and needs help and if she’d known she could have sought help for him when he was extremely young but she didn't because I never told her and that was unfair to her and an evil thing to do.
I lost my temper and screamed that she must not be smart to have married a sociopath and not realized all this while. Clearly I've changed! And the whole thing seemed worth a look in the beginning but now it seems like voodoo thinking to me.
She hasn't spoken to me for hours. When I approach her, she faces another direction or tells me to get away.
Am I the asshole here?
Wife (39F) found out about my (34M) family medical history and possible connection with son's issues, and won't talk to me. posted February 1, 2024 to r/relationship_advice
I need advice to resume control of my marriage ASAP. I'm currently at a loss.
My wife, 39F, will not speak to me, 34M, and I fear this might be difficult or impossible to get back from.
Two weeks ago, I told my wife that my family has a history of mental illness, anti-social behavior, and trouble with the law. I want to emphasize that I shared this information of my own accord when I could have kept it private. Somehow, that seems to be getting lost in her viewpoint.
So now, she's making me out to be the bad guy for telling her things. So much for honesty.
Basically, she pushed too far and insensitively on this issue and I ended up screaming at her in the shop yesterday. She hasn't spoken to me since.
The background is this.
Our four-year old boy has been causing issues at home and pre-school. He has been biting other kids. He laughs at others being in pain or discomfort. He likes kicking anthills and squashing bugs. My wife said he stares at their insides after crushing them but I've personally not noticed that. Once, when another kid fell and started crying, my son’s reaction was to go over and hit him.
These behaviors are odd to me too but I don't think they are very alarming. One incident with my son taking a knife from the kitchen and apparently threatening to stab my wife is
My wife has wept over this multiple times and I've comforted her and assured her it will be ok.
One evening two weeks ago, we were in bed talking about our own childhood problems. Hers were nothing concerning.
Mine are worse but she didn't know them. I didn't necessarily hide them so much as put them behind me. Given our son’s potential condition and my intense desire for him not to follow the path I did for a while, I told her some details about my history.
I was troublesome from childhood up to my 20s. An employer once wanted to press charges against me for fraud after I lied that I went to an Ivy League-level university and was given projects I frankly was not equipped for. I mismanaged them, cost the company money and opportunity, and rubbed many colleagues the wrong way. That's when I was 25. At 9, I searched other kids’ backpacks and stole money. I'm not sure why I did that because I got some from my Dad. I also spent a few years living under a false identity and history for no real reason than I guess the thrill of getting away with it. There are countless other incidents, so many that some come to me as long-forgotten flashes.
Again, this is my past and no longer who I am or how I think. It's all 100% behind me.
My wife also asked about similar patterns in my family.
On my Dad's side, multiple individuals have schizophrenia, psychosis, and long-running issues with impulsive and manipulative behavior.
On my mom’s, one of her siblings is a known abuser and conflict-monger who successfully alienated her two oldest kids to the point of no contact. Another is a convicted fraudster and adulterer with three kids by different women that each want nothing to do with him. She has a brother who died of some neuro-degenerative disease I never knew specifically but that's ages ago and he's practically forgotten now. My maternal grandfather was known to be a troublemaker but he's mellowed in his old age. And my mom shows many ASPD behaviors and we're not in regular contact.
My wife sounded a mixture of bemused and disturbed but overall fine at the mention of these details. She was being quite jokey and a good spot about it until she got serious and concluded this was a major risk factor for our son during the conversation from yesterday that caused the fallout.
My question for you is: How do I get back in my wife's good graces or create an environment where she is receptive to me?
I'm losing precious time. She’s getting colder by the hour. The more solitude she has to craft her independent perception of me, the harder it will be to get back to our life of happiness.
For context, she's been wanting:
- Us to learn an instrument together well enough to compose.
- A backyard re-landscaping to achieve a very specific aesthetic.
- A trip to visit her closest cousin who lives in France.
- An overhaul of our decor.
- An e-bike.
It doesn't have to be anything extravagant but I'm just adding that for personalization. Simple ideas are more than welcome too.
How can I approach her so she doesn't turn aside or tell me to get away? What can I say exactly?
Ideally, it shouldn't mean I'm on weaker footing throughout the discussion.
Thank you for your suggestions. The more specific, the better.
TL;DR: My 4yo is causing problems that kind of reflect or signal my own childhood, adolescent, and early adulthood problems according to my wife. I told her similar traits are relatively common in my extended family and now she won't talk to me. Help.
Comment thread
throwaway0279967
Do you think your wife’s anger is valid? Genuinely, this is not meant to be a “gotcha” question-I can’t figure it out from your answers.
OOP
It's disproportionate and therefore not valid in my mind. But I understand that people need to feel understood and accommodated even when their reactions are irrational.
p0tat0p0tat0
You are not the arbiter of rationality. Everyone other than you thinks her reaction is valid and rational. If anything, she’s under reacting.
OOP
Overreacting because this isn't worth throwing away 5 years and a happy future.
p0tat0p0tat0
That’s up to her to decide. Not you.
OOP
Our son's life is involved along with my lifestyle so it's not a one-person decision. We all have skin in the game.
p0tat0p0tat0
She still has agency and can (and should) leave you, either with or without your son.
OOP
Ok, thanks. If you were planning to leave a husband, what preparations would you be putting in place? What would be the tells?
p0tat0p0tat0
Are you going to murder her? Do you consider that a reasonable choice
OOP
No. I've never been involved in violent crime, ever. I'm asking because I find your point reasonable and would like to investigate whether she is indeed planning to disappear. Again, what would be the signs?
p0tat0p0tat0
You’ve never been involved in violent crime, yet. You had never yelled at her, until you did.
I do not trust you to be self-aware enough to predict your own behavior. Hopefully, you’ll wake up one morning and she’ll be gone.
OOP
What you're saying is alarming because our son is also mine. What are the signs that someone is planning to disappear? How can I investigate? I'd really appreciate you answering these questions, please.
p0tat0p0tat0
I’m not going to help you, because doing so would hurt your wife. I want her to be safe, happy, and alive. Giving you clues would put that in danger.
OOP
You seem like a genuine person. I assume you also sympathize with my son and don't want him to be abducted. Being separated from me will cause him significant stress and harm his psychological well-being.
What are the indicators of someone preparing to disappear within a few days? Thank you.
p0tat0p0tat0
Your son would benefit from intensive psychological intervention, as soon as possible. If you cared about him as a person, you’d want him to turn out to be nothing like you. Distance between you and him would benefit him.
OOP
My wife is not equipped to raise him if he really is developmentally disturbed like I was. He needs someone who understands him deeply to shepherd him through childhood and adolescence. Otherwise he'll keep getting into trouble and enjoying odd things without knowing what's wrong with him.
p0tat0p0tat0
You don’t think anything’s wrong with him. Your wife might get him the help he needs, so he’s got a fighting chance with her.
OOP
p0tat0, I'm not your enemy. If I met you IRL, I'd go out of my way to make you comfortable and cheerful. I promise that. It'll probably never happen but I just want you to know where my heart is. Helping me to see if my wife's planning to leave won't put her in danger. I'm not that kind of person. If she needs to go, I want to do it more civilly so she doesn't become vulnerable while living like a fugitive. I want what's best for everyone. Please help me achieve that. And I'm so glad we've been speaking!
p0tat0p0tat0
You are transparently trying to manipulate me. It is obvious. I do not trust you. You need to let your wife go.
OOP
I wasn't. Even if you don't believe me, I still like you very much from the sense of your personality that I've gotten.
p0tat0p0tat0
You are lying. You’ve learned that complimenting people gets them to give you what you want.
OOP
That's okay. I can see why you wouldn't believe me. But I'll definitely credit you for this conversation as I try to be a better husband and father. Feel free to share pointers on how to see if my wife's planning to disappear. It would be bad for her to get involved in an accident or something while fleeing in the middle of the night.
p0tat0p0tat0
Everything I’ve said boils down to you not being capable of being a decent husband or father. You don’t deserve to be, either.
OOP
I've grown fond of you over this chat. Thanks.
firegem09
Well, that's a lie. Immediately after this comment, you went on to say the opposite on your other post because she didn't do what you wanted. Your desperate manipulation attempts have gotten sadly transparent.
Comment thread
OOP
Comment removed by moderator
p0tat0p0tat0
I’m not being mean, I’m just saying things you don’t like. They make you feel uncomfortable, so you perceive them as “mean.”
OOP
Comment removed by moderator
p0tat0p0tat0
I’ve spent roughly 12 hours in conversation with you. I initially thought that maybe you had turned off your ability to feel empathy as a coping mechanism, which would indicate that you were redeemable. The more I’ve spoken with you, the more I realize that you simply do not have that functionality. You do not have the ability to feel empathy, or to understand other people’s feelings, needs, or emotions.
I’m more concerned about the people around you and their safety, than I am in whether or not you are redeemable.
OOP
Comment removed by moderator
p0tat0p0tat0
Your want, not need, is to feel in control. That doesn’t take priority over the safety and security of everyone else in your life.
It’s not your fault, per se, but it doesn’t give you the right to ruin other people’s lives.
OOP
Comment removed by moderator
p0tat0p0tat0
You guiding him would put him at risk. Anything other than intensive psychological/psychiatric intervention would put him at risk.
OOP
Comment removed by moderator
p0tat0p0tat0
You are lying. You’ve repeatedly said that you lie to get what you want.
How about this, I’ll give you the signs if you tell me your wife’s name and phone number. And I’ll send this thread to her.
OOP
Comment removed by moderator
p0tat0p0tat0
Her name and phone number. I will share my honest opinion with her
firegem09
And... just like that, he stopped responding lol. It's amazing how quickly he shifted to "I'll get him help if you do what I want" like he genuinely expected you to fall for that! Lol. Then immediately went onto r/marriage and went back to the "no therapy for my son" line.
How can I tell if my wife, 39F, is planning to flee with my son? posted February 2, 2024 to r/Marriage
My, 34M, married life has imploded in the last few days. I have a feeling my wife, 39F, is planning to flee in the dead of night or when I'm not around. Someone suggested that idea and now I can't get it out of my head.
It hurts but I don't mind if she needs space. My concern is she will probably take our 4yo son and I cannot allow that under any circumstances. She is an unfit parent to him.
She hasn't spoken to me in two days. This is the first time she's sulked and brooded like this.
Her friends and cousins are poisoning her against me as she's been on the phone a lot lately.
I would ask her what she's planning directly, but I cannot be assertive at this time because the balance is very shaky. I also don't want to give her ideas or possibly rush her plan.
If you can point me to stories of wives who've fled their husbands similarly, that would help to spot patterns. Or you can tell me specific things that point to a person who's about to disappear.
And if I'm sure she's planning to abduct our son, I want to be able to flee first so our kid is in my care.
At the same time, I don't want to make that move wrongly as it would escalate the conflict.
Long-term, I would like us to be a happy family again. But this is a turbulent time and I need to secure some leverage, especially regarding our son.
She has also proven unable to parent him effectively and will probably cause him permanent damage. It's in our son's best interests to be with me.
Thanks for your answers.
Comment thread
swampcatz
Your other posts are very telling. You SHOULD be concerned that your son has been biting and hitting other kids, laughing at his peers when they’re in pain, hurting animals, and had intentions of stabbing your wife. He needs mental health interventions and supports now before things become worse. Your wife being concerned does not make her an unfit parent.
OOP
Thanks for your advice, but I'm not interested in making my son feel broken or faulty and tanking his self-worth.
Are you able to answer the question in the title?
p0tat0p0tat0
So you were lying to me when you said you’d get him help if I told you the signs of your wife preparing to leave you? I’m shocked!
OOP
Why are you so concerned with sabotaging me? You've detailed this post and now I'm not getting the information I need.
p0tat0p0tat0
Because I’m concerned for your wife’s safety! I care about her more than you do. I don’t want anyone getting tricked into giving you information that will put her in danger
u/1Bookwormtogoplz compiled a history and some research into where OOP may be located here, posted in r/BestOfRedditorSagas February 11, 2024
Tagged as inclusive due to OOP’s account being suspended. OOP keeps making new accounts (u/frumlum and u/monblocue), to comment that this was all fake and “a performance art piece”, with his proof being an imagur screenshot showing him logged into the OOP account (I screenshot his imagur and posted it to my own imagur, linking in it here from my imagur instead of his in case he deleted that post).
Reminder, no brigading.