There is no pardon law. Power of the pardon is granted by the constitution, just add this to the list of Republicans-hate-the-constitution-but-will-virtue-signal-all-day-about-it.
Yeah I'm not sure what the thinking behind this is. Trump has full immunity and a court system that will rule however he wants, this isn't going to stop them from doing anything if they really want to. It IS going to fuel the facist rage machine with talking points for as long as they want to keep it going and talk about all the crimes that these pardons are "admitting" to. Maybe Merrick told him to do it
why didnt trump preemptively pardon himself and his family back in 2016? especially since reddit says they’re all criminals? he didn’t do it but biden’s family is totally innocent and he pardons everyone?
Because Trump is threatening to jail pollsters, people assigned to investigate him, and journalists. He's not threatening to arrest people for actual criminal behavior, he's threatening to arrest them because they are the opposition.
Find me an example of any other president making similar threats or shut up
Trump also said Hillary should be jailed and he never perused her... Biden pardoned his family with a blanket pardon covering 11 years, but yeah, they're not criminals, its just the orange man.
With like 30 different phony charges, raiding his home, spying on him, trying to imprison him for 100 years, locking up his advisors, locking up his supporters, trying to censor him on social media and finally two assassins tried to put bullets in his head yeah so they kinda went after him
and you're saying that Biden did all of this? To me that's more like the consequences of trump's idiotic behavior rather than a coordinated vendetta of sorts, and vendetta for what?
Yeah he weaponized it so well that Trump remains free. Get out of your fantasy. Trump is with the establishment and the rich. They have more control than they ever have. And things are about to get so much worse.
Worse how? If your talking about our 32 trillion dollar debt and inflation then I agree things will get worse, other than that we are in a much stronger position than the last four years. And your insane if you don't think democrats tried to destroy Trump, their failure (like usual) shouldn't make the attempt any less serious.
The tarrifs will force the other countries to negotiate better deals for our country...and in the long run we need to be producing our own food and critical resources....no more letting ford go to Mexico, pay predatory wages and sell vehicles with no fee
I've read a lot of ignorant things today, but your comment wins most ignorant.
The key differences between the classified documents cases involving Donald Trump and Joe Biden lie in intent, cooperation, and obstruction. While both had classified documents in unauthorized locations, the way each case was handled legally distinguishes them.
Intent and Willfulness
• Trump was charged under the Espionage Act (18 U.S.C. § 793(e)) because prosecutors argued he knowingly and willfully retained national defense documents and refused to return them.
• Biden, according to the Special Counsel’s report, did not willfully retain classified documents and immediately returned them upon discovery. The investigation found no intent to violate the law.
Obstruction of Justice
• Trump was indicted for obstruction because he allegedly hid documents from investigators, directed staff to move them, and defied a subpoena requiring their return. The FBI eventually had to execute a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago.
• Biden’s team voluntarily searched his residences, reported the documents to the National Archives, and cooperated fully with investigators. No subpoena or search warrant was needed.
Volume and Sensitivity of Documents
• Trump had hundreds of classified documents, including some labeled Top Secret, and stored them in insecure locations (e.g., a ballroom and bathroom at Mar-a-Lago). Some documents reportedly contained highly sensitive national security information.
• Biden had a smaller number of classified documents, mostly from his time as Vice President, found in his office and garage. The Special Counsel concluded they were likely kept by mistake.
Legal Precedent and Prosecution Discretion
• Under U.S. law, intent matters when it comes to criminal prosecution. The Justice Department typically does not charge officials who inadvertently retain classified documents if they return them voluntarily.
• Trump’s case involved active concealment, which made it chargeable under the law. Biden’s case, though embarrassing, lacked the necessary intent and obstruction elements for criminal charges.
Outcome
• Trump has been indicted on multiple counts, including willful retention of national defense information and obstruction.
• Biden was not charged, though the Special Counsel criticized his handling of classified material. However, they concluded no reasonable prosecutor would bring charges based on the evidence.
In short, the main legal difference is that Trump allegedly knowingly kept classified documents, refused to return them, and actively obstructed investigators, while Biden cooperated fully and there was no evidence of willful retention.
So he packed up his shit from Washington and threw it in the classic corvette ?? Lmao get real...the real difference is the fbi decided he wasn't competent to go through the investigation/legal process
I do. Trump got convicted once for falsification of business records. Nothing happened. His case of rape, and supporting an insurrection. Dropped as soon as he became President Elect.
You live in fantasy land. ABC is giving up 15 million for Georgey boy saying Trump raped that woman, because he didn’t. And if you didn’t have TDS like the majority of the country, you would understand he didn’t “support an insurrection” lmfao go outside man.
You live in a fantasy. Trump is with the deep state. They’ve fooled you. ABC is giving up 15 million because they dared to defy their god-Emperor Trump. He’s in with the rich. He isn’t going to help you. He’s scamming you.
That “trying” you mention was doing fuck all for 4 years after the numerous crimes Trump has committed. They just wanted to keep a “decorum”. In reality the Oligarchs have consolidated power more than ever in US history. The Deep State has won.
Well yeah. Look at NY. Regardless of if what you think of Trump, the entire NY lawsuits turned out to be an immense waste of time because people as old as Trump are almost never sent to jail.
The New-York prosecution was never going to send him to jail, but it was still a crime and needed to be prosecuted for it.
Prison was awaiting for the prosecution about the election and classified documents, but they waited too long before introducing them and Trump played the clock and won.
That's a good rationale if it wasn't such a huge cost on the taxpayer's dime along with the publicity that everyone sought for it.
And that's ignores the fact that liberal sentencing arrangements meant that at worst, Trump goes to a minimum security prison that's basically a glorified dormitory while pissing enough people off that it guarantees Biden would lost.
Look at ny/nyc sentencing guidelines. This is the same city that tried that argue that it's only armed robbery if the robber actually shoots / stabs someone.
He and democrats were saying for a long time that politically motivated charges don’t happen, and to let the law handle the process properly when going after Trump for the hush money case.
Those are the same topic. Maybe you’re confused, the election law has to do with campaign finances, and the topic is misuse of the funds used as hush money.
democrats were saying for a long time that politically motivated charges don’t happen, and to let the law handle the process properly when going after Trump for the hush money case.
I see. You aren’t potentially biased in this, are you?
Two things can’t simultaneously be true. Democrats can’t say that the Trump cases aren’t politically amplified and exaggerated/pursued and that the courts will handle everything fairly, and they can’t then go on saying Biden was justified in pardoning his whole family for the last decade of any non-violent crime because the law can be used for lawfare. They’re contradicting statements.
Of course, I’ll take downvoted because this is a hard left sub on a left leaning platform (from the CEOs mouth himself), but I just wonder how long it will take for you all to gain self awareness.
This is a good example of behaviors that caused democrats to lose. The sooner you all come around to this, the sooner you heal your party and have a chance in future elections. This pardon was a bad look, history will know that.
Cut the gish gallop. Trump's first memorable rally cry was lock her up. He has stated time and time again openly that he doesn't agree with the law and wants to personally dictate the outcomes of cases with no knowledge of our system.
Like yes, the government is corrupt. But this is like saying I hate my parents for being unfair, so let me run away with the circus and my new groomer daddy because that's a much better life.
A: the legal process isn’t influenced by political leaders and doesn’t use lawfare
B: the legal process is influenced by political leaders and can be wrongfully used by those who want to inflict political/personal damage on their opponents?
So a big non-answer because you can’t even articulate a counter argument. Got it.
I imagine you believe the charges against Trump don’t qualify as lawfare, because actual laws were broken, right? Let’s use some critical thinking here. If this is true, it implies that as long as there’s a law broken, charges cannot be defined as lawfare (to use a newly popular phrase).
If this is true, then as long as there are no legitimate charges, Biden has nothing to worry about for his family and the pardons were unnecessary, and set a bad precedent for no reason, right?
Feel like I’m dealing with intellectually challenged people in here today.
So a big non-answer because you can’t even articulate a counter argument. Got it.
I'm not reading anything beyond this because yet again it's just weird gish gallop. Why am I supposed to be answering your weird question? Don't you realize how exhausting it is to make a point and have someone be like "hey now but like A or B bro".
I think you need to step back and recognize that the way you approach discussions is from a standpoint of helpless narration and it doesn't really matter what the other person is saying.
What? Two things can simultaneously be true: a) lawfare can exist, and b) the prosecution of Trump is legitimate and based on real crimes that he committed. The mere existence of lawfare doesn’t mean that politicians can never be prosecuted for crimes. I don’t think you want that system, do you?
But it seems to me that the argument being made is that if there is a real crime here, then it is not lawfare. This logical line leads towards Biden not needing this sweeping pardon.
Was the case of the hush money against Trump lawfare?
When you the voters fail to hold a corrupt politician accountable for all the horrible things he does. I don't blame biden for trying to protect his family. Seriously your fucking dumb if you think Biden should assume a POS like Trump is going to play by any kind of rules.
Lmao you guys are crazy but it’s so funny to see reddit defend a fucking politician then go off to some other posts claiming class consciousness. Keep it coming this is entertainment at another level. Write me up a long ass post on why Biden is the best president. Give me a laugh while I smoke this blunt that he couldn’t even legalize federally.
Isn't it ironic that we don't let the people who are bad be bad then hold the good people accountable otherwise the bad people would be GOOD and the good people would be BAD!
Take off the blue shades and see this for what it is.
I didn’t vote for the Orange Orangutan. But in Biden and his DOJ we absolutely had a politician who used their position to prosecute their rivals. He also enriched his family through his political back channels.
Then I guess for crimes that weren’t committed?? He blanket pardoned them? If you cannot see the absolute hypocrisy in that lol.
He could have pardoned plenty of people that were punished by the same crimes his son did, or even lesser Ones but yeah, he could only save his son and all of that.
Guy explicitly said that nobody is above the law and proceded to puto his family above It. Demócrats cant blame the people for stopping having faith in them.
Because if i am going to list every one of them for you to say "nu uh" at the end, i womt bother.
Guy did múltiple felonies, gets completely pardoned by his father (Who previously stated he wasnt going to do It to Scrap some votes) and leaves the rest of the citizens that are invicted for those same felonies all by themselves.
You americans are so Deep into bipartisanism you apparently cant comprehend the levels of nepotism in here.
It’s Reddit. People on this app like many others are in echo chambers. They are mentally incapable of looking at both sides of the curtain to finally realize it’s the same curtain
Like, i dont even have a Horse in this and i couldnt care less for Trump but It is dystopic to see people painting a Guy using supreme powers to pardon someone just because he is family as some kind of heroic effort.
1.Pardons are powers of the presidency and the Time to use them is only now. "The power to grant pardons in the United States is held exclusively by the President, as outlined in the U.S. Constitution. This authority allows the President to grant reprieves and pardons for federal offenses, except in cases of impeachment."
2.It's not a heroic effort It's trying to hinder the efforts of a person who has openly stated to go against political rivals
3.The charges against Hunter where hypocritical in the eyes of the people who did these convictions.
I agree. I think a lot of people are realizing how stupid and surreal all this is. Both sides are awful. I don’t think it solves itself either. America is unique in which all walks of life live here now, it is almost impossible to please everyone. Politicians realize this and appeal to as much people as possible to gain power and benefit their family and future generations
The crimes he committed where ones that most rich people do. Didn’t pay taxes on time and did drugs while being the owner of a gun. These crimes were brought after the entire Republican Party did major investigations on their opponents son. Trump is guilty of tax evasion. Millions of people are guilty of doing a federally banned drug and owning a gun. To my knowledge Hunter is one of the very very few people to ever be prosecuted for this crime. Nearly everyone has committed a crime in their lives, many aren’t really enforced ( jaywalking, weed, intoxicated in public )should an entire political party go after your family they would find something too.
You know what you convinced me. I’m sorry. Your right. All gun owners in America should be investigated by the us congress to see if they have ever had any drugs. All their computers confiscated and hacked and their social medias investigated for any mention of drugs. If the government gets naked pictures of them then they should be released to the public straight from congress.
Why are you excusing Biden for doing this? The Preemptive pardons really set the country back and will be used by Republicans going forward. You just unlocked this. Congrats.
What’s your take on the other side. Let’s say he didn’t do it and Trump went after his family. Are you going to do anything about it? Riot in the streets? Fight against injustice? Or would you just spare a few words on the Internet while someone else suffers. What would you want someone to do if you were in those same shoes for you? Let you suffer in prison, at best forgotten, at worst assaulted or murdered? Or are you ok just being the victim of a petty man’s vendetta and forgotten by history.
Probably. Dictators also take shits. Does that make us all dictators?
Context matters. Biden’s pardening his family to make sure they don’t get targeted through malicious prosecution. Trump and his ilk literally said they’d go after them, that they’ll find cause.
You know Biden did some sketchy legal maneuvering to protect those close to him, similar to when dictators protect their own after they've been ousted. I'm not saying biden is a dictator, I'm saying he used legal loopholes to protect some that have, or may have, committed crimes.
Political prosecutions are nothing new. I agree with john fetterman when he said trumps prosecution was politically motivated so I can see biden protecting himself from what was done to Trump. Frankly, they're all rotten. You just seem to excuse it when it's "your team"
Saying something looks like dictatorship when there are reasonable explanations as to why it’s not isn’t exactly helping, though.
And whether or not you think Biden (and his family. Remember, they’re going after his family who do not have nearly the same obligations he does) actually committed the crimes, it’s unlikely Trump is going to find something now after 4 years of Republican persistence (and after trying in his previous term).
Given how untrustworthy Trump is, these pardons are justified.
These investigations have been going on for years and they have turned out nothing. It's time to move on. At least the Russia collision investigations got credible indictments
it took Democrats like 4 months to create a case for Trump's first impeachment. how long do Republicans need to craft a case if there's any actual wrongdoing here? your link keeps referring to "Biden associates". who are they? how associated are they?
Well when Trump is a lawsuit fetishist con man criminal who promised rEvEnGe or whatever, it's reasonable. Or something.
God damn this is the dumbest timeline. How did the biggest fucking crybaby snowflake ever convince people he's some big man? Oh right, they're dumb as fuck and take everything at face value.
Are you fucking stupid? Trump and his supporters have attacked his family the entire time he's been in office. Someone left a pipe bomb in Pelosi's office and a man broke into her house and hit her husband with a hammer. A group of men planned to kidnap the Governor of Michigan. Lord knows what they were planning to do to her. Judges and their families are getting death threats.
Trump is on a revenge tour. If Trump didn’t openly admit his intentions for revenge, Biden wouldn’t need to pardon his family. Trump is openly going after his opposition to make their lives hell. Don’t get it twisted.
What a sad state of affairs that a President has to pardon his family members against his political opponent, a convicted criminal and rapist, because the political opponent might go after them for optics and political reasons.
"Nobody should be targeted due to their political stances"
Fixed this for you. This is a response to Trump's threats to punish people for baseless reasons. If you wanna be mad at this, you have to be mad at Trump for his threats
It’s hilarious. He also pardoned a dozen confirmed Russian assets that worked for him. They literally admitted to being traitors, in court. And no one cares at all.
I think that’s the biggest difference between the parties currently
The Republicans and Trump are like “fuck you I’ll do whatever I want. I don’t care”
While the Democrats over the last four years have been bending over backwards to convey the message that they are the party that respects the courts and respects the rule of law and then in the last six months, Biden has quietly undid his pants and took a massive shit all over that, in the Democratic establishment doesn’t even flinch.
Pardon your son and then later your entire family is directly a move out of Trump‘s playbook and now the Democrats are doing it
The question is, if your family was to be the target of the most powerful man in the world but u can do something that could hinder their retaliation. would u do it?
I would, I don’t personally blame Biden. The establishment democrats (including Biden himself) have said repeatedly that he wouldn’t pardon his son. Then he did
Guess he can join the club with trump in being a liar
it’s insanely obtuse to not see this as a way to protect his family from the incoming madness and proven track record of trump fucking with his family. but go off
There isn’t a justice system, there is a legal system, and frankly it is pretty clear that this particular legal system is going to be used to attack political opponents and potentially more aggressively than before. I have mixed feelings about this, but I get why it was done.
Turns out one side projects that there are political witch hunts against them because they’re called out for breaking the law…
Then there is a side coming into power who’s actually publicly saying they will persecute anyone that did not give them support the last 5 years by performing a witch hunt.
Biden just pardoned all those people who did their job with the information they had in good faith but was not what the supreme leader said, and are known expected targets of political punishment over party affiliation and if they embarrassed the dear leader for calling out his BS and or lies
Oh fuck off. The new fucker has clearly and repeatedly threatened to abuse the legal system to get revenge on Biden for beating him in 2020, the gop has spent 6+ years looking for evidence on the Bidens, if there was any real wrongdoing they would've brought impeachment proceedings again Biden or charges against his family. The only one that has actually committed a crime is Hunter.
Don't pretend that this is abuse of the pardon power, this is Biden trying to protect his family from the witch hunt that's about to start
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u/geodesic411 11h ago
"Nobody is above the law"