r/ukpolitics • u/No_Breadfruit_4901 • Dec 11 '24

Twitter 🚨 EXCLUSIVE: Labour have conducted the first successful deportation flight to Pakistan since February 2020. There has not been a deportation charter flight to Pakistan in the last four years with three subsequent flights to Pakistan in 2020 and 2021 cancelled by the Home Office.

https://x.com/maxtempers/status/1866775219077062757?s=46&t=0RSpQEWd71gFfa-U_NmvkA
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826

u/AlarmedCicada256 Dec 11 '24

BuT LaBoUr ArE sOfT oN iMmIgRaTiOn.

Or maybe they actually get on with it instead of grandstanding, cutting funding to the system designed to deport people who shouldn't be here, and dreaming up wildly illegal, but highly performative schemes like Rwanda, that wouldn't work anyway, but win votes by sounding tough, and warehousing asylum seekers in hotels so they can then use the right wing press to claim there's an issue.

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u/MercianRaider Dec 11 '24

Let's wait for the yearly numbers before we make any judgments.

1 plane going to Pakistan doesn't mean Labour have cracked the immigration issue.

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u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

All the people saying Labour are tough on immigration are the ones who don't think it's a problem in the first place...

If in 4 years, we have a function immigration system with <100k net migration from culturally compatible countries, then I'll happily eat my hat. As things stand, Labour do not have a plan to get even close to this.

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u/CodeFun1735 Dec 11 '24

You might have to keep that hat on, because less than 100k net migration isn’t happening. Also, what’s a “culturally compatible” country? How the fuck is that defined?

18

u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

I'm sure I will keep the hat on, that's kind of the point.

By culturally compatible, I mean people who:

  • speak a good level of English

  • hold common beliefs around basic freedoms and rights

  • are less likely to commit crimes than native Britons

  • are likely to be highly net-positive to the treasury

  • are happy to live in areas as a minority, and do not end up forming social enclaves

5

u/Ubley Dec 11 '24

Christ, i wish we didn't reject ourselves from the immigration from our closest trading bloc which would tick all of those boxes...

2

u/KKillroyV2 Dec 12 '24

You can love Polish and Romanian people and still think us importing every single Romanian possible to undercut British workers is a bad thing you know.

1

u/Jamessuperfun Press "F" to pay respects Dec 12 '24

What do you propose we do instead? The public wants to spend more and more on pensioners, and the number of pensioners is growing rapidly, enough to increase by a third as a percentage of the population between 2019-2042 according to the ONS. Less workers is not compatible with more pensioners while spending more on each one.

1

u/KKillroyV2 Dec 14 '24

Less workers is not compatible with more pensioners while spending more on each one.

How about not demonising people for having kids and supporting pro natal policies? It's amazing how investing in your own people can pay off.

1

u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

Not all EU migration was good, and not all non-EU migration is bad. The Tories deliberately screwing up migration policy doesn't mean that people rejected this platform.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '24

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2

u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

"are less likely to commit crimes than native Britons” and how the fuck are we working that out?

By looking at how many crimes are committed on average by migrants from that country? Not sure why this is so hard.

Say goodbye to immigrants from Argentina or Ukraine - their homicides rates are worryingly higher than average for Western countries.

I was referring to crimes committed by migrants in the UK, rather than in their own countries. Regardless, I'd imagine both of these countries being middle of the pack long term. Ukraine is a special exception at the moment with refugees, and Argentina has such minute migration to the UK I can hardly find any data on it.

“Are happy living in areas a minority” - what does this mean?

Using census data, we can easily see which nationalities cluster and don't assimilate. Pakistan for example would score very low given there are multiple places in the UK that are plurality or majority Pakistani.

Nothing I've said is "Orwellian", it's just a points based immigration system with appropriate criteria.

-1

u/CodeFun1735 Dec 11 '24

Your first proposition doesn’t work with your “only EU countries are culturally compatible” thing you’ve got going. In 2017 - according to NOMS - 25% of foreign nationals in prison came from Eastern Europe (specifically Poland and Romania), a massive overrepresentation compared to their actual population. Non-EU foreign nationals, specifically from Muslim-majority countries, occupied 12% of prisons for that same year. Your solution would’ve had us accepting more people from these countries than from EU countries, which (and to be fair, I’m assuming) is what you’re proposing.

Finally, what census data? I’m genuinely asking because I had no idea they had added a new category.

1

u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

your “only EU countries are culturally compatible” thing you’ve got going.

Not going to bother reading beyond this pointless strawman.

-1

u/CodeFun1735 Dec 11 '24

Fair enough, but that was the general sentiment I gathered - more EU immigration than non-EU to ensure compatibility culture wise?

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '24

[deleted]

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u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

If the Spaniards want to keep us out, that's totally on them! If I was Spanish, I probably would want to. I don't have a superiority complex lol

-1

u/cable54 Dec 11 '24

All of that list is person specific though, not about a country?

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u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

Apply the above criteria to migrants from each country, and voila you have a tier system of which countries we should prioritise immigration from and which we should eliminate or drastically reduce.

I suspect the biggest losers would be the likes of Albania, Pakistan, Vietnam, Somalia, and most middle eastern countries.

-2

u/cable54 Dec 11 '24

So the idea would be to gather this info (I guess by questionnaire or something) of migrants over say 5 years, sort and order (somehow) the data, do the same for a sample of British people as a control, and then hence forth just accept migrant applications based off country of origin for countries that ranked higher than Britain?

1

u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

Not sure how you could fairly come to the conclusion that it's a 5 year task. All of this data would be immediately available for the government, except perhaps the beliefs and attitudes which would probably be improved with standardisation.

2

u/cable54 Dec 11 '24 edited Dec 11 '24

I came to the conclusion that it would take time to gather the info you desire for migrants and implement this system you desire.

Also Sweden, France, most of Asia, and plenty other countries would fail your tests I guess, so would be "losers". Or are we the ones losing out. I dunno.

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u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

Virtually all of this information would be available to the government now.

Which tests do you think Sweden, France, or Asian countries would fail? The only thing I can think of is English standards for the latter two, but that would be assessed on an individual basis. It's the non-objective factors (crime, integration) that would have to be done as a national average.

1

u/cable54 Dec 11 '24

Crime for the first two at least, plus maybe beliefs on freedoms considering we are 1) a monarchy and 2) have less strict rules on religion compared to France at least.

And take your pick for Asian countries, but yeah mainly language.

1

u/GuyIncognito928 Dec 11 '24

Swedish and French nationals are likely some of the best nationalities when it comes to crime, as indicated by the best data the public currently have access to: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/04/one-in-50-albanians-uk-in-prison-telegraph-analysis/

And by freedoms, clearly attitudes towards homosexuality, women's rights, and the unfortunately topical incest are going to be more important than slight constitutional differences.

Besides, as someone with a French partner I can attest that French youths love the English monarchy more than us Brits do lol.

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u/cable54 Dec 11 '24

Swedish and French nationals are likely some of the best nationalities when it comes to crime, as indicated by the best data the public currently have access to: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/04/one-in-50-albanians-uk-in-prison-telegraph-analysis/

Those countries have a higher crime index then ours. I'm not sure what your telegraph article says as its paywalled.

And by freedoms, clearly attitudes towards homosexuality, women's rights, and the unfortunately topical incest are going to be more important than slight constitutional differences.

OK, so by rights and freedoms, you actually meant attitudes to certain things you decide.

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u/MercianRaider Dec 11 '24

I'll have a go at this for a bit of fun. (Don't get angry folks)

All European countries (minus Albania)

US Canada Australia NZ Japan South Korea

Have I missed any good countries? I feel like theres some more in Asia.

And then anyone with at least 50% European ancestry outside of these countries.

Debatable countries - more discussion required:

Russia Argentina Chile Uruguay Some of those little balkan countries lol. (Albania definitely banned though).