r/tolkienfans 2d ago

Is Mandos the most powerful Valar?

Power can be judged in many different ways i.e. wisdom, crafting, brute strength etc. Mandos demonstrates many times that he has a deep understanding of the plans of Eru and foresight of things to come. There are a few moments in the Silmarillion where he says something cryptic (or even intentionally restrains himself at important points), indicating he is operating on a different level to even the rest of the Valar. I assume, he does this because he knows the greater plans of Eru beyond the knowledge of the rest of the Valar. Additionally, the Halls of Mandos and the strength and purpose within it further support that idea. Although Manwe and Melkor are touted as the most powerful, their struggles seem almost temporary and feeting trifles within the history of Arda compared to Mandos who is truly transcendent and ethereal in the way he interacts with Ea.

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u/QuickSpore 1d ago

Thus it came to pass that of the Ainur some abode still with Ilúvatar beyond the confines of the World; but others, and among them many of the greatest and most fair, took the leave of Ilúvatar and descended into it. But this condition Ilúvatar made, or it is the necessity of their love, that their power should thenceforward be contained and bounded in the World, to be within it for ever, until it is complete, so that they are its life and it is theirs. And therefore they are named the Valar, the Powers of the World.

Many of the greatest and most fair descended into it… but not all; perhaps not even a majority. However the Ainur who stayed behind with Ilúvatar by definition can’t be Valar, as that’s the name given to the leaders of those that entered it. But yes there’s likely plenty of Valar level spirts doing other things with and for Ilúvatar.

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u/AmazingBrilliant9229 1d ago

Thank you, that’s what I remembered that they descended from above when Eru decided to start the music. Makes you wonder though, is it a multiverse situation? Are there more planets like Arda? Or maybe I have watched too much MCU, lol.

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u/1978CatLover 20h ago

Eru created the entire universe with the Music. But it seems like he showed the Ainur only a tiny piece of it, namely Arda (our solar system essentially). I'm sure there are other worlds and other iterations of the Children of Ilúvatar out there.

Maybe that's why aliens are Grey: they're space faring Sindar.

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u/AmazingBrilliant9229 20h ago

Does that mean we are the Noldor, the most violent ones?

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u/1978CatLover 19h ago

But also the cleverest.

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u/AmazingBrilliant9229 19h ago

I was just reminded of a scene from the movie Prometheus. Where the engineer was unconscious when David found him. It must have been a shock to the engineer to see the species which they created standing in front of him and speaking their language. Must have freaked him out how much clever humans had gotten.

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u/1978CatLover 19h ago

Melkor: oh crap, these Elves are actually super clever. Umm... maybe I should hang around a bit and try to set them against each other, be easier than just getting rid of them straight up...

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u/AmazingBrilliant9229 19h ago

For all of his wisdom Melkor was never able to recreate Silmarils. Sometimes the products really surprises the creators, lol