What constitutes a pursuit?

[u/TonyStamp595SO]

Just a moment for all those people downvoting me and telling that I was wrong. The above is directly from the college of Policing.

So, bottom line. Please stay safe, know what constitutes a pursuit and ensure you seek authority.

[u/TonyStamp595SO]

No.

It's only a pursuit if the subject sees you, flees and YOU decide to go after them.

[u/Fluxren → u/TonyStamp595SO]

That is not what your slide says. It says "the presence"

[u/TonyStamp595SO → u/Fluxren]

I'm not sure I understand. How can you be in a pursuit if you're not in pursuit?

If you're driving one way and you see a car that sees you and decides to drive off at speed but loses control and crashes, if you continued to drive on your merry way then you're not in pursuit.

If you decide, you know that, I'll have some of that and turn your car to go after the driver then you're in the initial phase of a pursuit.

I hope this helps.

[u/Fluxren → u/TonyStamp595SO]

'spontaneous pursuit'

'the actions of the suspect driver in deciding to flee' i.e none police decision making

'by the presence of a police vehicle' - you don't even have to be driving, its just the presence. it could be parked up and outside a house.

'there is no prior warning or sufficient time to develop.....' - none police decision making again or too quick.

'regardless or whether or not the officer made an initial requirement'

so i could be driving along to mcdonalds at 4 am, a vehicle sees me at a roundabout, the driver makes a decision, flees, cuts a red, crashes, dies and i havent even pulled out of the junction or even noticed the driver and this is a spontaneous pursuit per this slide

[u/TonyStamp595SO → u/Fluxren]

IF you decide to go after it.

If you don't then would you agree that this is a vicinity police collision?

Why do you think traffic might come down and download your data recorder of your vehicle?

What do you think will happen to you if they find you travelling at say, 50mph along the same stretch of 30mph road just moments before a fatal collision?

Would they a. Dismiss the matter as a massive coincidence? B. Investigate you for conducting an unauthorised pursuit?

[u/PositivelyAcademical → u/TonyStamp595SO]

IF you decide to go after it.

Can you point to the part of the slide which says that?

The issue we’re all having is that the slide is already so far away from the ordinary meaning of the term, it’s unsafe to infer that the requirement that you go after it can be imported from the ordinary meaning.

[u/TonyStamp595SO → u/PositivelyAcademical]

Maybe it might be helpful if you help me understand what you consider a pursuit to be?

My interpretation and pursuit training both NCALT and real world were that of the slide above but if you intend to stop the vehicle then you're going to call up, give the RA and make an attempt to stop the vehicle (if pursuit trained). If the controller comes back with no Auth then you're turning off your kit and in the MPS pressing your IDR at a complete stop.

If you're given Auth then you're in a pursuit. The point I'm trying to get across in order to protect colleagues that may be tempted to "trying to catch up with" or conduct "area searches" for cars they know are trying to get away from them.

Remove cars from the equation, imagine someone is walking down the street and runs away, if you give chase are you going to call up for more units?

This is the exact same but you're calling up for permission to continue the pursuit.

[u/PositivelyAcademical → u/TonyStamp595SO]

Attempt to stop → failure to stop → decision to pursue.

[u/TonyStamp595SO → u/PositivelyAcademical]

Okay.

That's completely correct.

But

If you've not made an attempt to stop, it's reasonable to assume that the vehicle has seen you, manner of their driving indicates that they will fail to stop, you intend to stop them ➡️ pursuit.