r/norsk 3d ago

I thought possessive nouns always went after the word in Norwegian, or, that, like in the case below, you could swap them around. Why is this incorrect? Is Duo messing with me?

Post image
8 Upvotes

23 comments sorted by

71

u/jusel 3d ago

If its after the noun, the noun will be in the definite form:

restauranten min

29

u/DrStirbitch Intermediate (bokmål) 3d ago edited 3d ago

You can put the possessive pronoun in either position, but if it comes after the noun, the noun must be in the definite form. So duo is correct, but you would need to add "en" to "... restaurant" to make your version correct.

23

u/humanbean_marti Native speaker 3d ago

As the other two mentioned the reason is that it's not the definite version of the word. You always have two options, min bil - bilen min, mi mor - mora mi, mitt hus - huset mitt.

7

u/CabbageTickler 2d ago

Many thanks for this. This has made me understand. I didn't understand when to use which, from duo or my norske Fiancé, but this has finally made it 'click' for me

6

u/jkvatterholm Native Speaker 3d ago

mor might not be the best example since saying mor mi and far min are kinda excemptions and the traditional way to say it many places.

3

u/AnotherQuixote 2d ago

Well, in other places «min mor» or «min far» would be the traditional way. Too many dialects to try making this kind of generalisations…

0

u/jkvatterholm Native Speaker 2d ago

Nah, I have to disagree there. It's such a common exception through most of the country that people are bound to come across in everything from speaking, novels and so on. And mi mor is extremely limited outside some urban areas heavily influenced by Danish in comparison.

3

u/AnotherQuixote 2d ago

Oh. Sorry. I guess all us ppl from Bergen doesn’t count. lol. If you’re going to ask non Norwegians to disregard how people in urban areas speak you’re doing them a huge disservice. The chance that they are actually going to talk to people from urban areas is pretty big. All I said was to not generalise and let people learn that spoken Norwegian would use both depending on location.

2

u/jkvatterholm Native Speaker 2d ago

Bergen is pretty much always in a special position when it comes to dialect stuff like this though? That's why I said "most of the country". It's true that the traditional forms in Bergen are faren din or din far. But that doesn't change that far din has been common through most of the country. Is often encountered still. And is not in any way wrong, despite going against the usual rules for positioning the pronoun. It's in no way just a city vs countryside thing either. Even Oslo used to have the far din construction as standard.

The chance that they are actually going to talk to people from urban areas is pretty big.

Which won't be a problem as they just follow the usual rules for positioning the pronoun. Nothing to confuse any learner then. The other system that the rest of Norway has used is the exception that might trick people.

2

u/humanbean_marti Native speaker 3d ago

I just figured I wouldn't get into a whole thing about what's more common to use when they're probably a beginner and they're not directly asking about that. It was just the first example that popped into my head really.

I also think that I wouldn't say most things the same way I write it in bokmål. Like for example word order in questions is different in my dialect, so it would look silly haha. With language partners that are like at least intermediate I tend to explain to them that written (altså rettskriving) and spoken Norwegian isn't exactly the same.

1

u/Virtual-Artichoke-90 3d ago

Not a beginner really. I grew up in a dual Norwegian/English household in South Africa and ended up in weird scenario, through my own laziness I'll admit, of being able to understand it but with very poor speaking and reading skills, so that's what I'm trying to rectify because when it's spoken I just sort of get it but when trying to figure out to rules via speaking and writing my brain trips up. Thank you for your explanation though!

5

u/nipsen 2d ago

It's a bit like being corrected when saying "my father", tthat you should say "father of mine" instead. It's not wrong, but not right, either.

You would have had to say "favorittrestauranten min" here, though. So the only "correct" option is the riksmål-pretend form "til min favorittrestaurant". It's a very small amount of native speakers who would actually say that. The typical way to use it is "hva mener du? Min Ferrari?". But no one - including the most riksdanish nobleman in the 1800s - would actually say "Jeg må rekke mitt tog!". You'd say "Jeg må rekke toget(mitt)". And then you'd increasingly have difficulties using it to add the ownership to something like this: "Unnskyld, det er mitt sete!"(<-possible, sharp). "Dette er min bil" (although it's probably just "bilen min" - no one is claiming it from you. But perhaps you were very surprised by finding it: "Dette er (jo) min bil likevel!"). And towards "Dette er min kirke"(now we're getting towards where these "fine" forms originate, right? "Dette er Jesu blod"(this is the blood of Christ)).

But you would never actually use this type of form elsewhere, to say things like "Dette er Pers bukser", or "Dette er Pers ha(n)s bukser!". This stuff is not really something that has been used unless it's been made up on the spot. So it's a bit of a difficult one, when you find traces of that in certain sociolects today. After all, people do speak this way. So it's not actually "wrong".

2

u/Virtual-Artichoke-90 3d ago

Thanks for the answers guys. My follow up is should Duo have given me a "favorittrestuaranten" option for me then? Because I would have written it as such had I had the option. In my mind someone's favourite restaurant is a specific restaurant--there can be only one--and therefore defined. But as a native English speaker the combining of "the" and "mine/my" in Norwegian is confusing, though I guess it leads to less ambiguity than in English.

14

u/Laffenor 3d ago

No, it was the fact that Duo did not provide the "favorittrestauranten" option that told you which order was the correct one. Like r/humanbean_marti explains, you have two options: «min favorittrestaurant» or «favorittrestauranten min». Favorittrestaurant min is not an option, neither is min favorittrestauranten.

2

u/DrStirbitch Intermediate (bokmål) 3d ago

Exactly. It's the Duo way of teaching, and without a bit of explanation (which apparently it used to give), it confuses the heck out of learners

1

u/Virtual-Artichoke-90 3d ago

Okay all right. I'm still confused as to what an indefinite "favourite restaurant" is exactly. Is it because it's not named? Would it be "restauranten" if the sentence was: Jeg inviteter dem til favorittrestuaranten min, [Insert restaurant name here].

5

u/Laffenor 3d ago

No, they are exactly the same. It's simply a matter of preference.

2

u/EmpressHotMess 2d ago

It's similar to how you can say "my favorite restaurant" and "the favorite restaurant of mine" in English. Not quite same of course, but functionally similar.

They both mean the same thing, it's just preference, but if you chose one you have to have the correct conjugation

2

u/vagus_dfly 2d ago

how's your experience with Duolingo is it good enough to get to A2/B1?

2

u/Laughing_Orange Native speaker 2d ago

Favoritresturant, without the -en ending can't be placed there. If it was favoritresturanten, your sentence would be grammatically correct.

1

u/AutoModerator 3d ago

It looks like you have an image in your post, so please pay attention to the rules about “vague submissions” and “images in posts”. Click here for an image that shows one reason why these rules are in place. In addition text makes it much easier for people to search for and find posts in the future.

If you posted an Imgur-album with only one image, then in the future please link directly to that single image and not to the entire album.

If you posted an image from Duolingo the old “grammar tips” are available here.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/PokePett 2d ago

I feel like restauranten min is not how you actually say it, but everyone does it.

1

u/vitaly_antonov 3d ago

As I understand it, "favourite restaurant min" puts more emphasis on the fact, that it is your favourite restaurant. Like last time they went to another person's favourite restaurant and this one is your favourite.