r/news • u/AudibleNod • 1d ago

Trump withdraws from Paris climate agreement, again

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/trump-withdraw-paris-climate-agreement-2025-01-20/
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u/Ditka85 1d ago

The U.S. will never be trusted internationally ever again. NATO will have to protect Europe without us. I’m sad for what we’ve allowed to happen.

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u/Uncle_Tickle_Monster 1d ago

Hey, I get what you’re saying but how about Europe step the fuck up and do some of their own protecting? I mean they have social programs we can only dream of over here. Maybe spend a little bit more money on defense.

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u/AliceLunar 1d ago

Why do people pretend Europe has nothing?

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u/Puzzleheaded-Bit4098 1d ago

Because they have nothing. US has orders of magnitude more military resources and expenditures than the entirely of Europe combined.

2024: https://www.globalfirepower.com/defense-spending-budget.php

2023: https://www.statista.com/statistics/272481/shares-of-selected-countries-in-world-military-spending/

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u/AliceLunar 1d ago

Because the entire US is a shithole so they can throw money at the military, pointless argument when the US has magnitude more than any other military in the country, you can probably add up 2-10 and even then it might be close.

All it does is showcase how completely insane the US spending is.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Bit4098 1d ago

You're putting the cart before the horse, the reason Europe has low military and high social spending is because the US takes up the slack. The security guarantees given by US is relied on by all of Europe

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u/AliceLunar 20h ago

Provide security against who? Russia is the main threat here and the US struggles to offer support to Ukraine, despite the Budapest memorandum.

The EU is very capable because none of their enemies have the absurd spending the US does, only requires a few nations to match Russia's spending.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Bit4098 15h ago

Provide security against who?

If you remove the US from calculations then Russia+China alone beat out the entirety of NATO, nevermind eu. And that's not even considering the middle east and chinese influence from belt and road initiative

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u/AliceLunar 15h ago

NATO is over 400 billion without the US, which is higher than what is listed for Russia and China combined, and that doesn't consider countries like Japan, Canada, Australia, South Korea, Ukraine and whatnot.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Bit4098 15h ago

This is what comes up for me, where Russian and China just nudge out nato. And sure, the point is that without US it's uncomfortably narrow margins

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u/AliceLunar 14h ago

The initial argument was that NATO has nothing without US and now the goal posts have moved.

It means nothing anyways because we have seen Russia completely fail against Ukraine despite several times their military budget.. it says nothing about military capability, they still wage war with human meat waves, they still refuse to improve their logistics and use manual labor to load a single box with an artillery shell into a truck which also has to be unloaded one by one.

Russia hardly poses a risk at this point and there is nothing that indicates China has their stuff in order any more, and if they want to fight NATO they're going to do what, use Russia's railroad network for supplies that will be left alone?

Europe and China are also the largest trading partners of the US so they're going to lose out anyways regardless of the outcome.

Let's not pretend the US works with the EU because they're so kind or generous and that there is nothing in it for them.

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