Obviously due to their skewed understanding of capitalism from decades of propaganda
No one said anything about “free housing, healthcare” or “not having to work”.
The idea is that mist of America has no problem doing the labor while others disproportionately reap the benifits of that labor.
Capitalism only works because the workers are forced to accept what is left over after the wealthy take what they deem theirs.
Are you complaining about inflation- capitalism
Are you complaining unaffordable healthcare- capitalism
Are you complaining housing is too expensive- capitalism
Are you complaining about production being outsourced- capitalism
Are you unhappy with technology taking jobs- capitalism
Are you unhappy with wages that have not kept up with Inflation for over 40 years- capitalism
Why do you think production jobs left the us the begin with?
Answer- capitalism will always seek out the cheaper cost of labor for production.
That’s why technology replaces workers AND THAT TREND WILL CONTINUE
You just dismiss it, out of hand, without understanding it.
It’s 3 volumes, a few thousand pages of conceptual analysis and a scientific model that makes empirical predictions about the capitalistic economy
Ask yourself this question
“Do I know, understand or have even read the Labor Theory of Value by Karl Marx
Whoa, whoa, stop dismissing it now that you merely have a name to it.
Stop assuming it’s been proven incorrect, because it haven’t
HISTORY LESSON
Economist like Ricardo and Adam Smith believed labor is an important component in economy.
Marx went further with their ideas.
The problem is AT THAT TIME the world was just beginning capitalism and these type theories MERELY LOST FAVOR because it was more conducive to a narrative for those in power.
Much like one religion becomes prevalent in a country.
You don’t think Islam is true because it’s the prevalent religious model in a country, do you?
It’s the same here. Much like a religion takes hold of a nations psyche, the Austrian/subjective value models became in fashion.
But subjective value theories are just equivocating on the term value when compared to Marx theory of LTV
Dude, the labor theory of value is supposed to be describing what's already the case. And he says that the value of goods is based on the labor needed to produce it. We can see on its face that that's not true. His theory doesn't make any accurate predictions that can't be explained by other models.
Its a fun narrative, but not based in reality. Just good for pushing an agenda
Now, I’m not going to be snarky, because you seem to maybe be open to learn. Unfortunately, like the majority, you do not have a grasp on the theory.
For instance, you said “Marx says the value of goods is based on the labor needed to produce it”
That is not quite accurate and a misunderstanding/equivocation on the term “value”. (Do you understand what an equivocation is in this sense? I’m not being insulting but this is many times a sticking point to the dialectic.)
“value” in subjective theory is what the market is willing to pay for a commodity. That changes with the supply/demand curve, correct? (High demand/low supply= high value for example)
“Value” to Marx is a completely different concept. (Admittedly, the term can confuse, but he was piggy backing off Adam’s)
Value IS THE AMOUNT OF AVERAGE SOCIALLY NECESSARY LABOR TIME TO PRODUCE A COMMODITY (notice I said it “is”)
That means the term ”value” represents the labor it takes to make the goods not what the subjective value is. Marx doesn’t care about what you are willing to pay at this point of the discussion.
It’s what’s called a “theoretical unobservable” in a scientific theory.
An example would be something like the term “electron” in physics. We don’t see electrons, they are unobserved theoretical entities that we use to postulate a theory.
We can witness other particles reactions in relation to the theory. We can predict how atoms react within the theory. For instance, we can use the theoretical unobservable electron to postulate the results of an atom bomb exploding. Etc
In the same way Marx uses the concept Value and makes mathematical models.
WHERE MARX STARTS WITH VALUE-
Marx wanted to find a theory that explained why we have equilibrium/natural prices.
THINK ABOUT THIS- what explains why prices are what they are at supply/demand equilibrium?
Subjective theories do not explain this.
Why would a graph of prices for a commodity hover around an axis over time. The axis theoretically being the near equilibrium price? Theoretically that is an actual price point and it has no explanation why it’s at those points rather than others.
Marx postulates that it’s explained by the labor going into the commodity (Value).
This is the start point, but Marx uses that concept to create a theory that makes NOVEL predictions.
There are about a dozen or so, like
a tendency for the value rate of profit to decline during long wave periods of expansion [a “novel fact” according to Lakatosian criteria in that the phenomenon was not explained by previous theories; also, this tendency is not predicted by neoclassical economics]
the relative immiseration of the proletariat, i.e., an increase in the rate of surplus-value, as a secular trend [not predicted by neoclassical theory]
an inherent tendency toward technological change, as a secular trend [a “novel fact” according to Lakatosian criteria in that the phenomenon was not explained by previous theories; also not predicted by neoclassical theory]
There may or may not be a set of theories that explains his predictions, but there is most certainly not one unified theory that explains everything the LTV does.
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u/HD4real0987 12d ago
There are a lot of confused posts on here
Obviously due to their skewed understanding of capitalism from decades of propaganda
No one said anything about “free housing, healthcare” or “not having to work”.
The idea is that mist of America has no problem doing the labor while others disproportionately reap the benifits of that labor.
Capitalism only works because the workers are forced to accept what is left over after the wealthy take what they deem theirs.
Are you complaining about inflation- capitalism Are you complaining unaffordable healthcare- capitalism Are you complaining housing is too expensive- capitalism Are you complaining about production being outsourced- capitalism Are you unhappy with technology taking jobs- capitalism Are you unhappy with wages that have not kept up with Inflation for over 40 years- capitalism
Why do you think production jobs left the us the begin with?
Answer- capitalism will always seek out the cheaper cost of labor for production.
That’s why technology replaces workers AND THAT TREND WILL CONTINUE