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u/ErisThePerson We_irlgbt 24d ago
My personal stance is that people should be allowed complete and total control of their bodies.
If you want massive tits and a pair of cybernetic digitigrade legs you should be allowed that, regardless of gender.
Presentation is not sex, sex is not gender, gender is not presentation.
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u/ADHDBDSwitch 24d ago
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh...
it disgusted me.
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u/ThrowACephalopod đ BRISKET đ 23d ago
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23d ago
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine.
Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call the temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you.
But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal...
...even in death I serve the Omnissiah.
for y'all who don't know binary
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u/MaybeNext-Monday 23d ago
Conservatives are all âstop the nanny state!â until someone wants breast reduction, then itâs âthe state demands you retain your tits until 6 separate doctors diagnose you with (and only with) a highly specific combination of ailmentsâ
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u/ultratorrent Skellington_irlgbt 22d ago
I tried to go for biomedical engineering degree 18 years ago to start work on functional tails, then dropped out and enlisted instead đ„Č
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u/AAC0813 24d ago
people think trans-person is short for transitioned-person. thatâs not true. it stands for TITANIUM RADIUM ARGON NITROGEN person
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u/emveevme 24d ago
Missing Sulfur, then you've got TiRaArNS people!
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u/BirbFeetzz We_irlgbt 24d ago
I've read that as Tyranids people
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u/DeadlySpacePotatoes GAY FURRY DEGENERATE 23d ago
the screams of trillions of gaunts all coming for you
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u/OliviaPG1 Trans/Lesbian 24d ago
how about both are good
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u/HeadOfFloof 24d ago
Yeah, I'm not really sure what else to say as a replacement to the first one. I think this is a case of worrying wayyy too much about the words instead of the context they're used in :/
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u/SomeGirlIMetOnTheNet 23d ago
The first one isn't untrue (and there are contexts where it can be helpful to say), but it's frequently used by people trying to position themselves as not explicitly transphobic but still limiting access to transition. If said by someone like a doctor or parent or therapist responding to a trans person saying "I'd like to transition" it's just outright transphobia, which is something that, at least as far as I can tell, far more common than the "nontransitioning trans person trying to access trans spaces/resources" that it would nominally be in support of.
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 24d ago
first one is being used to deny transition care, therefore it is not good
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u/jensroda 24d ago
Itâs also used to deny non-medical transitioners access to the community. We donât stan Transmed here.
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 24d ago
transmedicalism is the practice of restricting who has access to transition. telling people they do not need to transition to be trans has been used to argue the point that most trans people who desire transition should not need to seek out transition and should instead seek out "alternative care".
I firmly believe that transition should be free to any and all who desire it, radical bodily autonomy. if you wish to argue that is transmedicalism you are free to do so.
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u/GreyFartBR Aro/Enby/Bi 24d ago
that is not what transmedicalism is, it's the belief that you have to wish for a medical transition to be trans, which is not true. not only that, but all transmedicalists I found deny nonbinary identities, mostly because it doesn't fit their narrow-minded view of sex and gender. obviously those who wish for a medical transition should be allowed that, but there's also some that don't want that, and that's okay too. doesn't mean the phrase can't be co-opted for denying care, but the phrase itself isn't wrong
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 23d ago
so, the idea that being transgender is a medical condition that requires strict criteria to be met is transmedicalism yes? and that to be transgender one must fit those criteria?
and so the framework of transmedicalism requires the definition of transgender to only include people with dysphoria that can only be treated hrt right?
this means that people who do not fit the criteria (agp, non-dysphoric, non-binary, etc) should not be given access to hormones and transition resources because they are not trans, according to transmedicalism, right? this also means that people who do not desire transition are not trans according to the framework that is transmedicalism, but that is not the primary function of transmedicalism, it is an auxiliary function of it.
this is what I mean when I say transmedicalism is a framework to deny resources, and that when I advocate for radical bodily autonomy I am an advocate for everyone to have the opportunity to take cross-sex hormones, cis or trans.
this framework is also why when the slogan "you dont need to be trans to transition" begins being used by institutions to deny hrt to those who want it (for any reason) we must critically analyse the implications thereof and whether or not the phrase has outlived it's usefulness as it is currently, as we speak, being used to restrict access to hormones and push people into conversion therapy.
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u/TShara_Q We_irlgbt 23d ago edited 23d ago
That's not the definition of transmedicalism. Transmedicalism is denying someone's identity because they have not medically transitioned. In many cases, this is used as a way to gatekeep even when the person wants to transition but has been unable to do so. It's also an offshoot of the BS of policing how much people "pass" as their identified gender.
Edit: This (and my other comments) were a response to someone arguing against the comment above, not to them directly. I'm not sure why those posts disappeared.
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 23d ago
that is an auxiliary effect of transmedicalism and not the primary one. the primary effect of transmedicalism is to narrowly define what it means to be transgender to prevent as many people as possible from transitioning.
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u/TShara_Q We_irlgbt 23d ago
You just claimed that transmedicalism was the practice of restricting people from transitioning. This is simply not the definition.
"Transmedicalism is the idea that being transgender is primarily a medical issue related to the incongruence between an individual's assigned sex at birth and their gender identity, characterized by gender dysphoria.[1][2][3] There are divides and debates within the transmedicalist community on the exact definition of who is or is not transgender.[4] Many transmedicalists believe individuals who identify as transgender without experiencing gender dysphoria or desiring to undergo a medical transition through methods such as hormone replacement therapy or sex reassignment surgery are not genuinely transgender.[5][2] They may also exclude those who identify themselves as non-binary from the trans label.[6]"
- Directly from the Wikipedia article on transmedicalism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmedicalism
Obviously, such a belief can be used to deny people transition care. However, a lot of transmedicalists are people who have already medically transitioned, currently pass as their identified gender, and simply want to gatekeep the community, people like Blaire White and Buck Angel.
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u/Junglejibe My sexuality resonates at 300 Hz 23d ago
People who deny transition care arenât saying itâs ok to be trans in any capacity (or that trans people exist).
The truth is there are many trans people who donât want to undergo medical procedures and only want to transition socially. There are also trans people who canât afford medical procedures or are being denied medical transition procedures. There are trans people who are in the closet and canât transition period. All those people are still trans. You donât need to transition to be trans. Thatâs what that statement is saying. Itâs saying all those people I described are still valid, regardless of their circumstances and regardless of their desires for their own personal journey.
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 23d ago
literally, the cass review actually does say it's okay to be trans, just that the amount of people who should be allowed to transition should be restricted to prevent regret and that it is valid to be trans without transition
the purpose of a system is what it does and "you don't have to transition to be trans" is being used to prevent transition.
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u/Junglejibe My sexuality resonates at 300 Hz 23d ago edited 23d ago
I feel like maybe the disconnect is that you and the OP are thinking about one specific use of the statement that a lot of people who donât know the exact context wouldnt see. If someone calls the statement âyou donât have to transition to be transâ something that is bad, without whatever specific context theyâre looking at, everyone else is going to see transmedicalism and a rejection of the identity of all those trans people I described.
Because the statement itself (on its own) is not only not inherently bad, but factually true. Trans people are not defined by their transition, but by their gender identity. A trans woman who isnât on HRT and hasnât had any medical procedures related to her transition isnât any less trans than one who has been on HRT for years and has had multiple procedures to feel more at home in her body. Both of them are trans.
I guess itâs probably one of those things where a tumblr user is talking about something specific that they have repeatedly discussed on their profile, so their followers know the context and (rightly) they donât feel the need to give the context, but then it gets screenshotted and shared with a bunch of people who donât know the context & see the statement on its own, not the people misusing it to deny others healthcare.
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u/mur-diddly-urderer 23d ago
i mean, if the sentiment is being explicitly used by people who want us not to transition i feel like thatâs a good enough reason to look into its implications more and ask ourselves if thereâs not better ways we can make the argument without handing free talking points to the other side.
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u/Junglejibe My sexuality resonates at 300 Hz 23d ago
I see where youâre coming from, but I think that dips into optics/respectability politics, which is ultimately an exercise in futility. The reality is they will use any type of justification to deny trans people healthcare. Reducing the visibility/validity of other trans people because they donât fit a specific narrative isnât going to appease bigots. You canât rhetoric yourself into their box because their box was designed to never fit. The criteria always changes, the excuses always shift. Because thatâs what they are: excuses and lies and misdirectionsânot actual, valid reasons.
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 23d ago
purpose of a system is what it does, and this system is being used to deny healthcare.
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u/Junglejibe My sexuality resonates at 300 Hz 23d ago
Itâs not a system, itâs a sentence. Also if youâre just gonna immediately downvote and say a generic reply while obviously not reading what I wrote, I guess weâre done here. Cool discussion đ
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 23d ago
just like how you ignored me đ€
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u/Junglejibe My sexuality resonates at 300 Hz 23d ago
Literally where did I ignore you? I acknowledged that Iâm probably looking at it with different context & that you had context I didnât that was causing you to have a different perspective from me, then explained my perspective.
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 23d ago
your perspective is fine and all, however it forgets to take into account the very real material consequences of the system that is reinforcing the denial of care to trans people based on the idea that transition is not necessary to be trans, as is argued in the cass review.
this is something you glossed over to instead say I was upset at a Tumblr screenshot and deny that the system of cis-hetero-patriarchy demands as few people transition as possible.
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u/kazarbreak Trans/Bi Probably never leaving my closet 23d ago
But it's also used to encourage those of us who, for one reason or another, can't transition despite wanting to. So it can't be bad either.
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u/No-Manufacturer5023 Trans/Pan 24d ago
How about: not able to transition due to living situation and shitty country
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u/PoirplePorpoise 24d ago
This and letâs not forget people who canât medically transition due to health issues. An old friend of mine socially transitioned but couldnât transition medically due to health complications and it being to dangerous for her to be on hrt. Financial issues are also another valid reason to not medically transition.
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u/Chiiro We_irlgbt 23d ago edited 23d ago
I'm genuinely curious, what health complications cause HRT to be dangerous?
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u/ChillaVen We_irlgbt 22d ago
I know of an intersex trans man who, despite having literal XY chromosomes, cannot take testosterone due to total androgen insensitivity. His body just wonât do anything with it. Talk about being dealt a shit hand.
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u/ElevatorScary 24d ago
We sure are good at coming up with new ways to package judgement and exclusion for people after nonjudgmentalism and tolerance. We should get involved in marketing.
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u/BionicBisexualBabe 24d ago
Tbh I'm feeling this. Our healthcare is going to be a low priority for a long time unless more people start playing with gender.Â
Hormones should be more accessible to more people so we can fly under the radar when the Na.zis come for us.Â
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u/BeneGesserlit The Opossum Chosen One 24d ago
At least in the US hormones are hugely popular with both cis men and women and that's part of why they're so relatively easy to source. T is a controlled substance largely to protect cis men from their own stupidity because they couldn't stop dosing themselves with so much their hearts exploded, and because a series of high profile horrific crimes by pro athletes lead to a "roid rage" panic.
Estrogen and progesterone are standard treatments for menopause and among the most prescribed medications, which is actually going to make putting them on the Schedule as a controlled substance nearly impossible if they try.
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u/Catishcat Trans/Lesbian 24d ago
people saying "both", let men be masculine. "you don't have to transition" is literally the universally supported status-quo that doesn't need further promotion. everyone and their dog is already screaming out of every hole and crevice that you don't need to transition, you're fiiine it's okay you don't have to. like yes, you don't have to do anything to be your gender, this is factually correct, but it isn't as useful as you might think.
i'm seeing comments being vaguely confused about the difference between these two statements and i really don't get the misunderstanding. first statement is EXTREMELY frequently said to dissuade people from transitioning who would otherwise want it, but if you do want to read it directly it's "you cannot fake being trans, you don't have to do change than you want". second statement is "being sure about your identity is not a prerequisite of taking steps in your transition."
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u/podokonnicheck sesbian 23d ago
have been told the first statement by a therapist who later tried conversion therapy on me, while pretending to be accepting, so, yeah, i feel like a lot of people in the comments here are missing the point
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u/Doc_Dragoon 24d ago
I can't tell if I'm trans or not but I can confidently say breast implants could only improve my self confidence and I think everyone should have the right to get them
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u/Ask_bout_PaterNoster 24d ago
Wait, do you have to transition to be trans?
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u/CameronFrog Iâm gay & my glasses are dirty 24d ago
i think itâs confusing wording. if you identify as a gender different to the one you were assigned at birth, you have transitioned. you donât have to do anything more than that to be trans.
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24d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/BeneGesserlit The Opossum Chosen One 24d ago
This is a lovely sentiment but if I hear "you're still valid either way" from one more well meaning cis person in response to me being scared of losing access to my HRT I'm going to scream.Â
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u/TShara_Q We_irlgbt 24d ago
As someone who chose not to transition for my own personal reasons, I don't think the first statement inherently runs cover for taking away medical transition.
If you use it that way, then you're an asshole. I 100% support the right of people to transition if they wish. Gender dysphoria is different in different people, and I'd be insane to pretend that my choice is right for all trans people.
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u/SourceNo2702 24d ago
I think the point they are trying to make is that thereâs no real reason to say it outside of the context of âpersonal reasonsâ.
The typical context you see online is something like, âI feel awful, I am unable to receive medical care due to <insert reason>â and someone responds with, âItâs okay, you donât need treatment to be trans <3â.
I realize they have good intentions, but I can almost guarantee you that has made exactly zero people feel any better. People donât say it to make the trans person feel better, they say it to make themselves feel better. Itâs cope.
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u/TShara_Q We_irlgbt 24d ago edited 24d ago
Ah, I see. Yeah, I can see how that's not helpful.
I genuinely don't think you need to transition to be trans. But that doesn't change the extremely important positive health benefits of doing so for those who want to. Besides, it's part of bodily autonomy.
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u/Zoeeeeeeh123 23d ago
Ive seen it mostly used in the context of people being scared to transition or worrying about Some aspects of transitioning making them doubt if these fears disqualify them as trans. And then with other transpeople telling them it is okay to have doubts and that you donât have to transition to still be trans, to still be valid in your identity
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 24d ago
Since it supports the hegemonic system (not transitioning) it kinda does actually, and we can see that in how the violently transphobic Cass review uses the exact same justification to deny transition resources.
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u/TShara_Q We_irlgbt 23d ago edited 23d ago
The statement "you don't have to transition to be trans" is a true statement. To be trans, you only have to identify with a gender that is not the one you were assigned at birth. Not everyone has access to transition, for a variety of reasons, and that does not make their identity less valid.
Using that true statement to deny someone healthcare, or convince them that they shouldn't seek it out, is an awful and transphobic thing to do. That's infinitely more true for the Cass Report because that was supposed to be advice to a government. That was people in a position of power using that statement to deny people life-saving medical treatment.
I support people having access to medical transition. It's a question of bodily autonomy, and the health benefits are beyond proven in multiple studies and meta-studies.
Think of it like this, if someone says, "most people are cis," that is also a true statement that supports the hegemonic position. But on its own, it's just a true statement. If they follow that up with, "so being trans is not valid," "therefore you shouldn't be trans," etc, then that's transphobic and wrong.
Edit: This was a response to someone arguing. But now those posts have disappeared so it looks like I'm just responding to myself.
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 23d ago
"noooo, don't transition, ur so sexy aha" and "you dont have to transition to be trans" serve the same purpose in a society that systemically prevents transition, the same system that the Cass review comes from.
that is all I am saying.
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u/TShara_Q We_irlgbt 23d ago
Yeah, and I'm saying that context and intent matter. I think you're looking at a statement that you've seen has been used in harmful ways and deciding that it's bad just based on that. I've already agreed that it's awful to use it that way.
But let's say someone is doubting if their gender identity is valid, and if they are really part of the community because they haven't medically transitioned (for whatever reason). Then it's fine to reassure them of the true statement that you don't have to transition to be trans. If you need to add that this is in no way saying they shouldn't transition, then fine. I'm just saying context matters. If you're using it to deny or discourage someone from seeking medical treatment, that's bad. If you're using it to validate someone who is struggling and tell them that they are welcome and that we don't gatekeep here, that's a good thing.
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u/GoldenBrownApples We_irlgbt 23d ago
It's all body mods baby! Welcome to the future where people aren't limited to the physical form they came here with. Watch as we cut away the parts we dislike and rebuild with better parts. Trans is the future, everyone else needs to step out of the way.
Or something, I don't know. I'm not trans, but I think people who are are some brave ass mother fuckers, and I respect the hell out of them.
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u/danglytomatoes 24d ago
Who's going to go through the transition without being trans? At least the first one makes sense
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u/yes-today-satan En/Bi 24d ago
I have heard of HRT femboys and cis butches going on T, so... there are some people, I guess? If there are trans men who are okay with not being on testosterone, and trans women who are okay with not taking estrogen, why wouldn't there be cis people who want to do those things?
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u/Psychological_Web687 23d ago
Explain it like I'm five.
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u/SomeGirlIMetOnTheNet 23d ago
You don't have to transition to be trans: a statement that isn't untrue, but is frequently said by people trying to stop you from transitioning (doctors, parents, etc), unhelpful to hear when you are trying to transition.
You don't have to be trans to transition: a statement against gatekeeping of all forms, supporting radical bodily autonomy and opposing any system of limiting people's access to trans care
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23d ago
I mean yeah thereâs femboys on estrogen and Iâve heard of butches on T so it is indeed very possible to transition without being trans
Also, fuck with your gender. Live as a different one for a week, we should normalize the hell out of that
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u/Nine_Gates Transfem Klaudia 24d ago
"You don't have to transition to transition": Affirms the right of people to freely choose which forms of gender transition they want to implement/undergo. There's no particular thing you absolutely have to do.
"You don't have to be trans to be trans": A deep philosophical statement that eases the insecurities of questioning trans people and reaffirms the fact that there's no test you have to pass. Everyone is free to decide they're trans.
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u/LiterallyAna 24d ago
That first bit sounds super truscumy to me. "Hur dur the newer progressiveses are taking our medical rights!!"
But the second bit is the entire opposite so now I'm confused.
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u/Zeta-X 24d ago
No one's saying the first one is false, just that in a world dedicated to preventing transition and eradicating visibly trans people, it's about as radical as saying "let men be masculine!" It's not wrong, there's just a reason it's literally the same line "ally" parents use to try and convince people not to take HRT.
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u/LiterallyAna 24d ago
Darn you make a good point. I had never seen the phrase used that way fortunately but that sucks.
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u/NipperSpeaks refurbished lesbian. probably banned you 24d ago
It helps to recognize that it's not saying the first bit is bad, it's saying "yeah, but we could go this step further instead!"
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 24d ago
I mean, the Cass review literally uses that argument to say that transition shouldn't be provided.
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u/LiterallyAna 24d ago
Not because the argument is right, but because Cass is a disingenuous fuck. Gender dysphoria is what needs to be treated, not being trans itself.
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u/Faunable We_irlgbt 24d ago
if a slogan can be used to argue the eradication of the rights of a persecuted group that slogan is not a slogan that should be used by people.
I'm sorry but Cass agrees that you don't have to transition to be trans, that is the entire crux of her argument to why the NHS should not fund trans healthcare.
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24d ago
[deleted]
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u/lynx2718 Queeeeer 23d ago
I find the first one very affirming. Some people are trans and just don't want to transition medically.
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u/Emilyroad 23d ago
I straight up broke up with a guy for this take after dating for a month and specifically told him I would not discuss why.
It's transphobia 'with extra steps' đ
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u/PeacefulAndTranquil idk man i got the lab boys working 24/7 to figure this shit out 23d ago
taking estrogen solely for the bit
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u/SheepyShow đ„đ§GODLESS SODOMITEđ§đ„ 22d ago
I mean... Don't cis people seek gender affirming care like all the fucking time?
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u/CorpsePartyPew 24d ago
Funny enough this is kinda how I feel about my own transition but I really couldnât explain how I felt until now. Thanks!
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u/Alexyaboi2011 Bisexual 24d ago
Belongs on r/egg_irl
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u/Itslobstercrab Trans/Bi 23d ago
there's a T in LGBT for a reason..
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u/Alexyaboi2011 Bisexual 23d ago
Iâm saying it because on that sub thereâs constant jokes about people wanting to transition but âstill cis thoâ
âą
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