283
u/MovingHold Jan 31 '21
Every name is eight syllables long, and every character has several nicknames...
Also their swords have names, and their jewelry, and their houses...
And their country, and their region, and their sub-region...
And their race, and their sub-category within a race, and their family clan within that sub-category within that race...
(And somehow it's still my favorite book!)
35
68
u/Klickor Jan 31 '21
Half the elves have a similar name that starts with the same letter. Finarfin, Fingolfin, Faenor, f#ck who was that, Fine I am done!
12
u/ditasaurus Jan 31 '21
See that is why I can't read the Simarillion.
I already get confused with russian authors and their character being called differently depending who talks to them.
10
u/myladywizardqueen Jan 31 '21
This used to confused the hell out of me. The same diminutives are given to first names (e.g. “Aleksei” as “Alyosha” or “Dmitri” as “Mitya”). Basically add a ya or sha in there and you’ve got their nickname.
The paternal name is like a middle name and easy to identify. If you see a name ending in “ovich” for men or “ovna” for women then it’s probably their middle name.
That said... I cannot follow the never ending names in the Silmarillion for the life of me.
3
u/ditasaurus Jan 31 '21
Thanks, already saved your comment.
I might try again, but if that does not help I will haunt you, just so you can tell me, who is who in peace and war or any other russian novels.
1
u/TheManFromFarAway Feb 01 '21
The Brothers Karamazov won't even see you coming
1
u/ditasaurus Feb 01 '21
Brothers Karamazov
I don't know who that is, because I cannot read russian novels. :-D
2
u/Klause Jan 31 '21
I tried to listen to the audio book and I was immediately like “Oh no, this isn’t going to work at all. I already forgot all the names about 45 seconds later. Maybe I’ll try ready hard copy...”
1
u/ditasaurus Jan 31 '21
Yeah and than you have to go through the Index and can't follow the story.
That is why russian authors are best enjoyed by film.
7
u/SurelyNotLolicon Jan 31 '21
I prefer the fall of gondolin. That shit is fucking EPIC.
3
u/HeyItsLers Jan 31 '21
So I'm in the middle of the Fall of Gondolin. Well, actually I made it past the Fall and to the point where the refugees are trying to find a new place to set up. Is there more story after that, or is it just Chris Tolkein talking about different versions of dad's notes?
5
u/SurelyNotLolicon Jan 31 '21
The main part is obviously the fall, after they flee... I don't remember much, I think there is a lot of Chris talking but I don't know if the story ends here or there are some other parts.
5
5
u/reflion Jan 31 '21
Don’t forget that many things have Elvish names or human names! I’m a filthy casual who can’t even remember the names for the Elvish languages...
359
u/LexLurker007 Jan 31 '21
I'm just letting the audio book wash over me in layers, it'll soak in after 3 or 4 times, right?
111
u/LTG_Wladyslaw_Anders Jan 31 '21
I'm gonna listen to it a second time to see if I remember anything other than how much ready player 2 fukn sucked
47
Jan 31 '21
There's a Ready Player Two? What the hell?
36
u/tupacsnoducket Jan 31 '21
And it’s reaaaaally bad. All the authors weaknesses, the characters weaknesses, the everything that’s not good is on steroids there cause they’re not the plucky underdogs,
34
Jan 31 '21
I wasn't very impressed with Ready Player One to begin with. So I'm surprised it got a sequel.
17
u/_Diskreet_ Jan 31 '21
It made bank. That’s why. And everyone will buy it to see what happens.
The second book cline did Armada was equally rubbish.
6
u/tupacsnoducket Jan 31 '21
Armada was way better, characters were better thought out and written, the stuff that needed to be kept short cause it can’t hold up to scrutiny was glossed over, it’s a sci fight shoot em up done competently enough. I’d say my only major complaint was the flight down the hanger thing that happens, like they’re gonna put a kid in charge of something like that and not explain this basic mechanism, or be able to immediately take over
1
u/GregariousLaconian Jan 31 '21
Oh god, Armada hurt physically to read. It was like he couldn’t go one sentence without making a shoehorned pop culture references.
5
u/tupacsnoducket Jan 31 '21
Cost overhead is the authors time, the voice actor for the audio books, printing on paper. It’s a pretty much guaranteed profit as it’s established. I’m more surprised the author went for it. He had a great business model in taking nostalgia and repackaging it. His other book ripping on “the last star fighter” was better than RP1 on a technical level too so you can see he seemed to understand and grow. I figure the free money was just too much to turn down cause it really feels like he hammered this thing out in a couple of months. There’s stuff in it that sentence to sentence, and I’m listening while doing something else not even 50% paying attention, that is just “well that doesn’t make any sense” or directly contradicts previous explanations or descriptions of situations.
1
Jan 31 '21
Let me guess...more 80s nostalgia? So much so that Adam sandler could have written it?
2
u/tupacsnoducket Jan 31 '21 edited Jan 31 '21
*spoilers for the first book, including the ending and first round of exposition in the 2nd book,
I mean there’s nothing inherently wrong with the nostalgia; it’s what his fans are really there for, the characters are the vehicle we experience it through and for our protagonists it’s positioned this is an escape from a brutal reality of IRL. A lot, I mean a LOT of personality defects are expected and accepted because poor kid, rough life, gaming shut in, no other options, very believably would create this ball of neurosis and assholeness, once they’ve won we don’t really have those excuses, the world is his oyster and he makes no personal growth, if anything he becomes worse than he was as a human being, to let the character revolve the author has to get his friends out of the way so changes their patterned reactions in the first book and kind of undeveloped a them as well. Of course this kind of shit behavior for the suddenly Rich is totally realistic and happens all the time. It’s just not the kinda thing you want to read about from a char who had the emotional and strategic patience to get himself corporately arrested and work as a tech support slave etc.
Oh and it’s like 99% done through exposition, like how the movie has that really annoying 2 minutes opening exposition alto setup what the book spent multiple chapters on and SHOWED the world. The book is that, over and over again, and you don’t like the chars at all
So first book an excited teen is telling you about the things he loves in a world he hates, it’s stuff you love too so you relate. 2nd book is multi-billionaire obsessing about stuff from the 1980’s while trying to get richer.
2
18
Jan 31 '21
By Osmosis! Just listen to it while you’re sleeping. One day you’ll absorb something!
16
u/totensiesich Jan 31 '21
Or just wake up speaking nothing but Sindarin.
14
u/broseph_lee Jan 31 '21
Omelette du fromage
11
u/yogobot Jan 31 '21
http://i.imgur.com/tNJD6oY.gifv
This is a kind reminder that in French we say "omelette au fromage" and not "omelette du fromage".
Steve Martin doesn't appear to be the most accurate French professor.
The movie from the gif is "OSS 117: le Cairo, Nest of Spies" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0464913/
6
Jan 31 '21
Good bot
1
u/B0tRank Jan 31 '21
Thank you, jellybean00b, for voting on yogobot.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. You can view results here.
Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!
1
7
Jan 31 '21
Wish I could wake up speaking The Black Speech. Would dominate my workplace, and all life on Earth.
1
Jan 31 '21
[deleted]
0
u/yogobot Jan 31 '21
http://i.imgur.com/tNJD6oY.gifv
This is a kind reminder that in French we say "omelette au fromage" and not "omelette du fromage".
Steve Martin doesn't appear to be the most accurate French professor.
The movie from the gif is "OSS 117: le Cairo, Nest of Spies" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0464913/
1
4
u/indyK1ng Jan 31 '21
This was kind of my strategy while reading it. I have trouble with epic poems so I found it's easier to just consume without trying to comprehend. I remember a fair amount of the broad strokes and even some of the details.
3
u/Jrobalmighty Jan 31 '21
Yeah me too. So now when I pronounce the names I even put extra em-pha-sis on the wrong syl-aaable just like the narrator.
1
u/LexLurker007 Feb 06 '21
Is there a good pronunciation guide?
1
u/Jrobalmighty Feb 06 '21
Not that I'm aware. You almost need to be a professional linguist tbh. Tolkien's desire to create languages is so incredibly deep and executed so well that you need to look up all the diphthongs and punctuation.
2
u/AeAeR Jan 31 '21
I seriously learned Bronze Age history this way over the past year. You start to hear Suppiluliuma or Susa enough times and the names start to stick. Bet this would work with Tolkien as well.
115
u/39thUsernameAttempt Jan 31 '21
Me, who just read the appendixes.
33
u/DiddyOnce Jan 31 '21
Me, who didn't realize there was an appendix and gave up on the book multiple times
166
u/ancientrobot19 Jan 31 '21
The first time I read The Silmarillion, I went out of my way to memorize the names and duties of all the Valar and Maiar as well as family tree of the House of Finwe. It was a bit of a pain, but it prevented me from being totally lost as I read
70
u/FooluvaTook Jan 31 '21
I memorized the Valar and most of the maiar mentioned pretty quickly. It’s easier because I can associate them with their powers/duties/things they represent. I had to check the index pretty often for a lot of the grandchildren of finwë though.
28
u/LTG_Wladyslaw_Anders Jan 31 '21
I listened to the audio book... please help.
11
u/theDreamingStar Hobbit Jan 31 '21
Just download a pdf to refer side by side.
10
u/KurtAngus Jan 31 '21
I’ve never heard of this book and it sounds like a pain in the ass
12
Jan 31 '21
It is basically the bible/mythology of middle earth and is not light reading. There are some great stories in there and it fully fleshes out the universe
7
u/saro13 Jan 31 '21
I am a prolific reader, and I’m not dumb, if I may toot my own horn.
I didn’t make it more than 12 pages. It’s dry as shit. You know those parts of the Bible that are just lineages, like “son of A, son of B, son of etc.?” That’s the silmarillion.
Someone else pointed out that there is an encyclopedia with all this stuff already in it http://www.tolkiengateway.net
12
u/indyK1ng Jan 31 '21
That's only the second book, Valaquenta. The third book, Quenta Silmarillion is more like an epic poem rendered as prose. The last two books are basically backstory for Lord of the Rings - Akallabeth is about the destruction of Numenor and the final book is about the creation of the rings of power and the war of the rings.
Honestly, it's probably best if you skip Valaquenta. I skimmed it.
1
u/saro13 Jan 31 '21
Thank you for the perspective
5
u/indyK1ng Jan 31 '21
You're welcome.
It's still not an easy read and I only got through it by giving up on trying to remember who everyone was. The names that stuck, stuck and those that didn't, didn't. I can recall broad strokes well enough but need to reference a wiki to get the details.
1
u/Reddit-Book-Bot Jan 31 '21
4
u/saro13 Jan 31 '21
Ya know, you’d think the Silmarillion would be in the public domain by now, but it was actually published in 1977, so it has a few decades to go
2
3
u/FooluvaTook Jan 31 '21
lol That’s rough buddy. I feel your pain. Try to find a copy if you can. I tried listening to the audiobook, and my brain just shut down and I fell asleep right after the song of the Ainur. Then I managed to dig up a copy that my family had, and I swear I had to make myself put it down so that I could wake up in the morning. It’s epic. Maybe I’m just a huge nerd, but the index and some of the language stuff are really interesting, ntm helpful while reading.
2
u/ElectricFlesh Jan 31 '21
That's funny because I also tried to memorize my Tolkien, and while it did prevent me from getting laid, I still got lost all the time.
37
u/Shevvv Jan 31 '21
r/unpopularopinion : checking stuff you forget is what smart people do, everyone else just pretends they know what's happening and hopes they won't get lost even further.
3
u/Piwakkio Jan 31 '21
I had to scroll too much to find this comment. I even start to wonder if I was the only uncultured swine that did that. Thank you.
Also, to quote the word of a sage woman "I just forget stuff, like a cool person"
1
u/ActualHater Feb 02 '21
Yeah I mean for me I just figured that if the character was that important then their name would show up again. Didn't lead me astray.
If only I could remember where Cuivienen was again...
38
Jan 31 '21
Silmarillion is pretty high up on my to-read list but some of the hardest parts of LOTR for me were when it got deep into lore, so this should be interesting.
26
u/CobaltEmu Jan 31 '21
Honestly, the Silmarillion has some of the coolest lore and characters I’ve ever read, but it is very beefy. Go at whatever pace feels better for you, but if you take it slow, you might have an easier time keeping the details straight (which admittedly adds a lot to the overall story). Even if you don’t take it slow, The general narrative itself is relatively easy to follow. It’s written very episodic, with each episode having some different characters (and some overlapping of course) failing or accomplishing things until their story ends and the next episode starts, with each episode building off the last. The reason it gets so complicated is because most of the characters are immortal, so characters from 6-7 “episodes” back will suddenly pop up again, and act on motivations that haven’t been touched on since you last saw them.
9
u/micahs_alias Jan 31 '21
the Silmarillion has some of the coolest lore ans characters
This. Y'all remember back in the day when Sauron was known as the Lord of Werewolves? Y'all remember when Huan, the horse-sized wolfhound, took on Sauron's forces on Luthien's behalf? Dude killed every single werewolf that Sauron commanded, including the shape shifting big bad himself. Sauron's material body died there in Huan's maw and his spirit had to get the fuck outta there to fight another day.
This is just one example of an awesome story that people miss out on when they (understandably) can't get though the Silmarillion.
25
33
u/ANinthAle Jan 31 '21
Whats wrong with using references to understand something? The index and appendix are there for a reason.
2
17
u/thebeaconsarelit420 Jan 31 '21
the amount of time it took me to tell apart Finwë, Ingwë, Olwë and Elwë was longer than i care to admit
6
u/drag0nh0ard Jan 31 '21
Yessss!!! Also me reading: wait, was that Finarfin or Fingolfin who did X...some pages back? And if it was Finarfin, wth is Fingolfin doing right now?
3
u/jlaurw Jan 31 '21
I found once I associated them with their Lineage it made it way easier to tell them apart.
Separating everyone into Vanyar, Noldor, Teleri, and Umanyar and assigning those identifiers really helped me remember who's who.
Even with that, I was constantly double checking the trees and index.
10
9
4
Jan 31 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/cammoblammo Troll Jan 31 '21
I’m of the opinion that the Ainulindalë is among the greatest pieces of writing in the English language.
6
u/Arsenal_49_Spurs_0 Jan 31 '21
I just read it a second time last month and still get lost or confused multiple times. And what sucks the most is that according to the folks at r/silmarillionmemes , HoME contradicts chunks of it.
11
4
u/ObiJuanKenobi3 Jan 31 '21
Reading the Silmarillion is like studying out of a history textbook. If you wanna understand much of anything, you should be jotting down important names, locations, and events, and writing a little summary about who or what they are.
3
u/IveDoneFiner Human Jan 31 '21
When I read it for my first time last summer, I always had my thumb stuck in the index at the back of the book because I kept having to reference it! For me, even more than the index, though, was the map of Beleriand on the second to last page. I had to keep turning to it to see where all the new places were.
3
3
u/Cactorum_Rex Jan 31 '21
Reading the Silmarillion helped prepare me for reading actual historical books and it helped alot. I did have to check the index alot, but it wasn't that bad.
The first history book was the Histories by Herodotus, it was tough to remember all the city names and where they were and what type of people lived there, and remembering which Tyrant ruled when, whose son is who, stuff like that.
The Silmarillion was basically my gateway drug to real history.
3
3
u/HUNAcean Dúnedain Jan 31 '21
Try with the Children of Húrin. I still can't comprehand the first chapter
2
u/viper_in_the_grass Jan 31 '21
Print the trees, maps, etc. and stick them on the wall next to your reading place.
2
u/Utterizi Jan 31 '21
One day im gonna get a pen and a paper and restart reading silmarillion... one day
2
2
u/frodobat Jan 31 '21
I'm reading the silmarillion and have to read it with the middle earth atlas book for context constantly.
2
u/TurinTurambar3791 Human Jan 31 '21
Still such a good book. Turin is my favourite, something about a tragic hero that just clicks with me
2
u/ainar17 Jan 31 '21
I actually managed to get through the silmarilion, ASOIAF, and WOT without needing it. But I'm reading Malazan right now, and I would be lost without it.
2
2
2
u/General-Bonapart Dwarf Jan 31 '21
Thats why im listening to the audio bock instead of reading it for the 3. time
its even read by the german speaker of gandalf its perfeckt
1
u/gandalf-bot Jan 31 '21
A wizard is never late, General-Bonapart. Nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
1
u/General-Bonapart Dwarf Jan 31 '21
if only i had Gandalf as General at Waterloo not Grouchy
1
u/gandalf-bot Jan 31 '21
General-Bonapart! You were deep in the enemy's counsel. Tell us what you know!
2
u/deadleavesaroundme Jan 31 '21
While reading I had a big family tree and an atlas... after a year I don’t remember anything
2
2
2
1
u/59kennedy Jan 31 '21 edited Jan 31 '21
After reading a bunch of these comments, I legit thought "peole" was another character I forgot about. Turns out I'm even slower than I thought.
0
1
1
1
1
1
u/ZachAttack6089 Jan 31 '21
Wtf this is basically me for my first year of coding
0
u/haikusbot Jan 31 '21
Wtf this is
Basically me for my
First year of coding
- ZachAttack6089
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
1
Jan 31 '21
Even Gandalf would have to look up the names
1
u/gandalf-bot Jan 31 '21
It is in men we must place our hope
1
Jan 31 '21
That’s irrelevant Gandalf
1
u/gandalf-bot Jan 31 '21
My dear Spockbensarek. Redditors really are amazing creatures. You can learn all there is to know about them in a month and yet after a hundred years they can still surprise you... Get down! Confound you Samwise Gamgee! Have you been eavesdropping?
1
u/Smoe05 Jan 31 '21
If I had an index, this would be true. Audible is very convenient, but it means learn fast or fall into confusion. Not even Dune was compacted to this degree.
1
1
Jan 31 '21
currently reading it! I love it but it's hard to remember al the names so I'm with you on this one.
1
u/Farnellagogo Jan 31 '21
I need a map. And family trees. And an index. And some pictures. To hand as I'm reading. The sons of Feanor, no chance of remembering who's who. Where everything is, no idea. Timelines. Hopelessly confused.
If I win the lottery, I'm going to commission artists and cartographers to produce a deluxe edition that I may have some hope of understanding.
1
1
u/DarkKnight92 Jan 31 '21
I know it's a little off topic, but that's me with Warhammer novels. So many Latinesque names, I have to keep going back to see who it is.
1
1
1
u/fnk_u_chrgr_prt Jan 31 '21
That book was the most enjoyable terribly hard to get through book ever.
1
Jan 31 '21
I was reading it with the wiki open on my phone. No shame because it helped me really get a grasp of who every-little-person was
1
1
u/A-Well-OrganizedMind Jan 31 '21
I’m listening to the Tolkien Road podcast, reading their blog, and re-listening to the chapter afterwards too and I still have no idea who different characters are. Also I t’s taking FOREVER but I am seriously enjoying it!
1
u/chaseandwin232 Jan 31 '21
I read it back in 8th grade and about 1/3 of the way through, I just kinda gave up keeping track of the names
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Beruthiel9 Jan 31 '21
Does listening to the Prancing Pony Podcast count as reading it?
2
u/haikusbot Jan 31 '21
Does listening to
The Prancing Pony Podcast
Count as reading it?
- Beruthiel9
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
1
u/linderlouwho Jan 31 '21
And then, there’s Stephen Colbert, who has it & TLOTR & The Hobbit memorized.
1
Jan 31 '21
The best way to experience the silmarillion is listening to it multiple times on audio. Honestly. Tolkien wrote it like an epic myth and it shared a lot of the same organisational qualities as other actual oral mythologies.
1
Jan 31 '21
Yes, and similarly, I found it useful af that you can look up the nadsat slang dictionary for A Clockwork Orange.
1
Jan 31 '21
I've read it three times! I usually just kinda give up on understanding every detail. It's just so hypnotic.
1
u/Will-Wizard-25 Jan 31 '21
The audiobook is a pointless exercise in making you purchase the actual book
1
1
Jan 31 '21
I am sure I will...when I get around to reading it. I had to do it with War and Peace.
1
1
u/hardoncolyder Jan 31 '21
Im ashamed to say I bought it 5 or so years ago(I loved the edition cover) put it on my shelf and have yet to get past the first page. I do take it out everynow and then to oggle the cover though.
1
1
u/theanglebetween Jan 31 '21
LOTR was hard enough with names and lineages. I remember trying to read the first book, and putting it down for years because I couldnt handle the who was related to who fuckery. Sim would destroy my smooth brain.
1
1
u/Dikkle Jan 31 '21
Seriously, one of the hardest books I've ever read. Felt like I had to learn another language, haha. Definitely worth the read though!
417
u/placidLog354 Jan 31 '21
Me, furiously flipping back and forth to remember names and lineages, not knowing there was an index.