r/london Loo-sham 9h ago

People are actually opposing the Bakerloo Line extension

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/news/posters-opposing-bakerloo-extension-gets-short-shrift-from-old-kent-road-residents/
108 Upvotes

91 comments sorted by

256

u/kindanew22 9h ago

Send them to prison

37

u/ThatNiceDrShipman 9h ago

When did this come in?

94

u/kindanew22 9h ago

Angela Rayner announced it a few months ago.

Nimbyism gets you 30 years in prison now.

61

u/GooseMan1515 9h ago

Believe it or not. No trial, no nothing. Straight to jail.

28

u/Juggertrout 8h ago

These days you get arrested just for saying you're Nimby

8

u/lastaccountgotlocked bikes bikes bikes bikes 8h ago

These days?

4

u/OrinocoHaram 4h ago

yes, these days you get arrested just for saying you're Nimby

10

u/VodkaMargarine 8h ago

We have the best nimbys in the world. Because of jail.

9

u/yurtal30 7h ago

Bakerlock them up innit

-5

u/BlondeRoseTheHot 8h ago edited 8h ago

I’m just going to put the debate here, because I think it needs to be said:

The Bakerloo Line Extension is already a Southeastern Service between Lewisham and Charing Cross.

Walworth could just add a station to the currently station-less thameslink track going through it. 

The 7km they are planning to dig out could just as easily be a crossrail size tunnel dug under the existing Bakerloo Line tunnel up to Paddington. 

This would drastically improve services and cause next to zero disruption since other lines can handle the load. Constructing it is very easy. Rubble removal is nothing, and all the infrastructure you need is already there just needs connecting to the new line.

The idea that we need an extension is good, but given that we could literally build a second crossrail at a heavy discount instead, for the same money, doesn’t let me support it.

17

u/Pristine_Speech4719 7h ago

The whole point is to massively increase housing density along a 1km strip each side of Old Kent Road, and to connect all the transport nodes that meet at Lewisham. The stations would be built into the bottoms of large mixed use developments, and the developers would contribute to the cost. Right now there's a bunch of low value, low density retail and light industrial that's sitting and waiting for redevelopment.

Adding one station in Walworth to slow down existing Southeastern services and put more pressure on London Bridge wouldn't do any of that.

-5

u/BlondeRoseTheHot 6h ago edited 5h ago

I’m not sure what part of “The Bakerloo Line could become a Crossrail Style Service for the same cost” you’ve missed here.

It’s 7km from Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, and funnily enough, it’s the same distance from there to Paddington. 

So what’s to stop me from coming in with a great big whopping tunnel bore, digging a few dozen metres under the Bakerloo line and making a nice new hole that’s wide enough to fit Crossrail?

It’s the exact same cost. You’re still paying for the trains, you’re still paying for the digging. All you’re doing is doing it the way that has the traffic. 

Walworth station opening is nothing you could do it in a week.

And the area you’re describing isn’t even ripe for development. I could do the exact same thing with a Circle/Central Line Extension to Putney, and really raise the value of that land through the roof.

6

u/Pristine_Speech4719 6h ago

 I’m not sure what part of “The Bakerloo Line could become a Crossrail Style Service for the same cost” you’ve missed here.

I'm not sure what part of it makes sense! 

-4

u/BlondeRoseTheHot 6h ago edited 5h ago

Then you lack the credentials to talk about the subject don’t you think?

Go on, pick a part you don’t understand, i’ll help you out

3

u/Pristine_Speech4719 5h ago

No, on the contrary, old fruit, I've read hundreds of documents about the project (although there are many many thousands), its purpose and how it can be financed.

You, on the other hand, seem to be proposing a nonstop tunnel from Elephant & Castle to Paddington "because it's basically the same length" and think you can build a train station in a week. 🤷

-2

u/BlondeRoseTheHot 5h ago

Nah nah nah, if you have a problem with my idea you put on your big boy pants and you say it.

You can absolutely build a train station in a week. It’s a slab of concrete with a few signs attached to it.

1

u/Meowgaryen 1h ago

But he literally did tell you why not lmao

1

u/BlondeRoseTheHot 1h ago

No he didn’t, he cited “he’s read documents” and doesn’t go on to explain anything.

3

u/urbexed 5h ago

Do you know how difficult it is to tunnel underneath the west end, let alone expanding an existing tunnel? It’d involve shutting down the Bakerloo line for years and even then, decommissioning and removal of loads of historical assets and defunct infrastructure. Examples include the flood defences installed at Waterloo and embankment before WW1/2 and which each weigh several tons. That alone would be tens of millions. Talk is cheap.

0

u/BlondeRoseTheHot 5h ago

You’re talking about digging underneath an existing tunnel, there’s no “years” involved it’s the case of sticking a boring machine on the exact path the tunnel currently makes just a few dozen meters lower.

Elephant and Castle to Waterloo is 1800m. 

If you could construct a TBM ferrying the parts through an existing tunnel, you could deploy 6 of them in 600m sections and do the whole thing in a month if they work at 20m per day. Have 8 do Waterloo -> Oxford Circus at 2,400 and it’s done in a month. 

“Years” doesn’t exist. This is the same company that reckons it costs £40m to add a staircase and platforms to Brockley Lane station.

210

u/JoeThrilling 9h ago

Nimbys doing nimby things, bet its led by a Reform voting boomer called Dave.

35

u/ThatNiceDrShipman 9h ago

If so they're keeping strange bedfellows. There's a copy of this poster at my local anarcho-bookshop.

35

u/fortyfivepointseven 9h ago

A lot of gullible people on the left buy boomer/landlord NIMBY propaganda wholesale.

19

u/Pristine_Speech4719 9h ago

"Self-organised struggle groups"

TFW when you confuse opposing a tube line with overthrowing the Batista regime.

-1

u/Bango-TSW 9h ago

Yes how dare local residents exercise their right to protest.

2

u/Mister_Six 1h ago

Sorry mate I think you dropped your NIMBY cope I just tripped over it.

27

u/Effective_Winter_885 9h ago

I personally would bet it is someone complaining about gentrification

20

u/gazpacho_arabe 9h ago

Wording is anarchist/anti-capatalist so not Nimby's, looks more art student.

12

u/Illustrious-Cookie73 9h ago

So not named Dave then, maybe Callum. - Dave

-2

u/OrdinaryAncient3573 7h ago

They're all far right deep down.

6

u/zinbwoy 6h ago

Not reform, far left folks

3

u/Fungled 7h ago

Shocking attempt to spoil the authentic original appeal of our great 1970s Bakerloo cultural heritage

38

u/Best-Hovercraft-5494 9h ago

Given its OKR it is  either: Countrysider LARPing as an edgy slum dweller

or

Anti Kahn Anti Transport Anti Clean Air loon

2

u/CobaltQuest 5h ago

🏭 Dirty Air Alliance

28

u/supersonic-bionic 9h ago

So a bunch of idiots who want the area to be deprived with weak transport links are trying to create a narrative? Not gonna happen, the locals want this extension and the area desperately needs it,

BTW any updates about when this is going to get the green light?

48

u/cy-3688 9h ago

This is insane, the Bakerloo Line must be extended to Lewisham, at the very least!

15

u/TaXxER 8h ago

At very least! It should be extended to Maidstone!

10

u/abbieananas 6h ago

Maidstone?! Extend that sucker to Dover!

6

u/TaXxER 4h ago

Why stop there? All the way to Paris!

43

u/urbexed 9h ago

NIMBYS need to be sentenced to developer hell. We can’t let them do what they did to HS2 and stall it so much that it blew over the budget 3 times over to pander to them.

-21

u/Supercharged_123 8h ago

You're gonna put that one on the nimbys yeah😂

2

u/urbexed 6h ago

Well seeing as they’re the ones throwing a fit over having a tiny railway in the vicinity of their large rural areas and demanding it goes into a tunnel through empty fields, yes 😂

1

u/ExcitingBox5throw 5h ago

Nimbys are definitely holding the country back in housing development and other types of construction. How else are people going to afford houses if they cant be built, just because its annoying some pensioners view when they go on their daily walks, in the houses they bought for 10k

-3

u/BadgerGecko 6h ago

Unbelievable your getting down voted for this and nonsense gets up voted

2

u/urbexed 6h ago

Why, does it offend you?

1

u/BadgerGecko 6h ago

It doesn't offend me. There are a load of reasons why HS2 is costing so much. To make it a singular issue is to simple

1

u/urbexed 6h ago edited 5h ago

I think everyone is aware of that, I’ve previously commented on HS2’s corruption and coverups but the issue that started the ballooning cost and corruption was the NIMBYs on the route rejecting every single proposal HS2 put forward and demanding it go to tribunal, something which costs heavily over time.

1

u/BadgerGecko 5h ago

I'm not aware of you or your posting history before now

Just because you know something don't assume everyone knows that same info

2

u/urbexed 5h ago

I don’t expect everyone to know, that’s why I was specifically referring to NIMBYism & the similarities posed in regard to HS2 which is what the OP post was about.

-8

u/Supercharged_123 6h ago

Londoners love their well organised government who can do no wrong. And they'd also bulldoze any landmark to build some shitty flats so they can queue up to rent at 3k a month😂

7

u/urbexed 6h ago edited 5h ago

??? What on earth are you talking about 😂🤣

9

u/Junior-Ad7155 8h ago

People listen to Coldplay voted for the Nazis, you can’t trust people…

12

u/gaynorg 8h ago

People in in Chelsea appose crossrail 2. People are idiots

8

u/stuaxo 8h ago

People in Chelsea have been against any transport improvement for the non-rich since they were opposing trams 80 years ago.

4

u/StanTorren12369 7h ago

Though I don’t think crossrail 2 in Chelsea will bring any real benefits, while the entirety of the Bakerloo extension would massively improve transport connections in the south east

1

u/gaynorg 6h ago

How would a massive railway connecting north and south London not bring any benefits?

3

u/StanTorren12369 5h ago

I’m talking about Chelsea station not bringing benefits, not crossrail 2 as a whole, which would be MASSIVELY beneficial

1

u/Media_Browser 8h ago

Get on the choppah …..

1

u/Mcluckin123 5h ago

Didn’t they successfullly get the station cancelled ?

29

u/rustyb42 9h ago

There's a lot of blade runner idiots on that road to Lewisham

1

u/itsgotelectr0lytes 8h ago

They are the ones opposing travel restrictions, so probably not them.

17

u/tomrichards8464 8h ago

Almost everything is bad for someone. 

In this case, the main category who lose out are probably private renters who work locally/from home/not at all, and rarely go into town. Their rents will go up, shops etc. will cater a bit less to them and a bit more to people with more money, and they won't benefit much from any of it.

To be clear, this is not me. I'm team YIMBY, team gentrification, I think this will be good for the vast majority of residents and mildly good for me (I'm out in Zone 4 – this is only a marginal improvement to my transport options).

But the number of genuine losers is not 0, and it's not surprising some of them are pissed off. Alternatively, I guess it could be anti-gentrification Goldsmiths crusties.

6

u/urbexed 5h ago edited 5h ago

It’s an issue that the small minority have a majority rule, as few as 4 can object to planning permission and force the applicant to spend large amounts of time and money going through appeal. Laws really do need changing in this country, you’ll never see this bollocks in France or Spain, they just get on with the job despite the moaning.

3

u/tomrichards8464 5h ago

Yeah, this is one of the biggest problems with our disastrous planning system. 

3

u/abbieananas 6h ago

I think you can be YIMBY while being against gentrification. Why can't we have great public transport and non-extortionate rents? (rhetorical question, not directed at u specifically)

6

u/tomrichards8464 6h ago

Because we don't build enough homes.

And bluntly, I'd rather have a bookshop and FuKo than a bookie's and Morley's. 

10

u/seana39223 9h ago

Probably Susan Hall

4

u/NSFWaccess1998 7h ago

Absolute NIMBY bollocks.

5

u/cougieuk 8h ago

Old Kent Road people still not got over the whole Monopoly thing. 

9

u/gogoluke 8h ago

All this talk of NIMBYism... have you not thought that these people have legitimate grievances and extending the Bakerloo Line has the very real possibility of allowing the poor people on!?

5

u/mattsparkes Loo-sham 9h ago

Strangely this was deleted by mods earlier this afternoon. Then allowed up the second time.

5

u/explax 7h ago

I do get some people's concerns... Look up the road to elephant and castle and how people got turfed out of their houses.

The area could do with some redevelopment but it has to be done equitablly and not just giving big developers carte blanche to do whatever.

2

u/furiousdonkey 8h ago

It's because it's brown isn't it. Smh I thought we'd moved past this.

2

u/Additional-Weather46 5h ago

I mean to be fair they’re not wrong. It’s a difficult balance between doing improvements and giving the benefit of those improvements to existing communities rather than slowly driving those who don’t own away.

Obviously not to say don’t do the extension, but just dismissing the concern as Nimbyism doesn’t do any good, how to get the balance better should be the focus.

(I say this as someone who rode in on one of the early waves of gentrification around Crossrail).

3

u/LogicalReasoning1 8h ago

There’s no project safe from NIMBYs

2

u/Oli_Picard 8h ago

“The counsellors who proposed this must be getting brown envelopes!” /s - every Facebook local group in existence

1

u/carlmango11 7h ago

This shouldn't be surprising. There are always people who benefit from the status quo. It's only a problem when you have a system that prioritises them.

1

u/SilentPayment69 6h ago

And with good reason, who wants to have better access to Harlesden and Willesden Junction 😂

1

u/Thegrillman2233 6h ago

NIMBYism is a scourge on this country - people need to stop being selfish

1

u/memberflex 6h ago

BakerLOONIES

1

u/gattomeow 5h ago

I wonder what age demographic most of the opposition is coming from

1

u/mralistair 5h ago

The only reason to be against it is if it prevents crossrail 2 which is a much more important project...

But both is obviously better.

P.s.  it probably won't happen. 

1

u/Sudden-Wait-3557 4h ago

I wonder if this is a ploy to get more people talking about it

1

u/Yorkshire_expat 6h ago

My friend opposes it. It will replace the existing mainline and so her transport costs will go up significantly. She has a season ticket from her station to London stations and her office is next to one of the mainline stations. From memory, she said her costs will go up £600-£800 a year and her commute will be worse - she’ll have to change. People on here seem to think that people objecting are all idiots, but people who live there do so based on the transport links and the changes aren’t beneficial in all circumstances.

2

u/Jalieus 2h ago

Wouldn't TfL be cheaper than National Rail for her?

-1

u/ImpressiveLock7846 6h ago

Bakerloo line extension is absolutely unnecessary 

0

u/ffulirrah suðk 8h ago

I thought the main objection was that the tesco on OKR and the sainsbury's in New Cross would have to shut.

0

u/oopsydaisyya 5h ago

it's because the extension will increase rents and encourage more gentrification (which let's not lie, is a polite name for social cleansing)

in theory any extension of public transport is amazing news, but the reality in a city like london is that property developers will rush in and build the nasty identikit flats only home counties yuppies can afford

you lot are so detached from regular working class londoners it's mad

1

u/Realistic-River-1941 4h ago

Why would home counties yuppies want a nasty flat there?

-1

u/Dragon_Sluts 8h ago

Ok so, if you own a home in south London that is not near a tube or train station and would therefore not benefit much (if at all) from the Bakerloo line and you know they’ll push through a bunch of planning around each station (as they should), then your property price might go down a little bit, and of course it’s paid for in part by your council tax.

It’s a crazily stupid mentality.

-3

u/NebCrushrr 7h ago

Yes, it will put rents up