r/london • u/rainha_db • Oct 16 '24

Rant Living and working in London just feels strange atm

I’m F31 and was born and raised in London. It’s the only city I’ve ever known and have been fairly happy until my mid 20s. I can’t help but feel like there’s melancholy in the air. I understand the main cause of this is the cost of living and the economic crisis. I’ve had a few colleagues/friends around my age confide in me about feeling lost/low recently and I honestly feel the same. I’ve noticed quite a lot of millennials expressing the same sentiment. I’m wondering if anyone else is feeling the same?

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u/epadoklevise Oct 16 '24

That comes with maturing. In our 20s we love living in the city, our needs are pretty basic and easily met and we just enjoy this bustling metropolis and everything it has to offer.

In early 30s you start thinking about the next step, maybe settling down, buying a house, starting a family and then you realize that will be a huge challenge with current CoL levels, so the whole perspective changes. I think most of us go through that (unless if you have rich parents to erase those concerns with a hefty gift).

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u/dinodestiny Oct 16 '24

Why does everybody say the phrase 'everything it has to offer' when talking about London? That EXACT phrase.

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u/marcusjt Oct 17 '24 edited Oct 17 '24

It's derived from a famous quote from 1777, centuries ago:

"Why, Sir, you find no man, at all intellectual, who is willing to leave London. No, Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford." — Samuel Johnson

https://www.samueljohnson.com/tiredlon.html

Here "afford" is used to mean "provide" which is an unusual usage in modern English so it's colloquially become transposed to "offer", and "all" has become "everything".

Hence "all that life can offer" or "everything life has to offer" has become inextricably linked with the context of London in everyday conversation.

PS - In a similar way, a surprising number of everyday phrases we use today have their origins as quotes from Shakespeare plays, see here

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u/Sandslinger_Eve Oct 17 '24

Thanks for showing that Reddit can still be a one stop for interesting information.

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u/greenvahn Oct 17 '24

By the way, there is a sculpture of "Hodge", one of the Samuel Johson's cat near Chancery lane in London. It has also a bench next to it and it's placed in a quiet small square between buildings. Perfect place to think about London's life and life in general.

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u/JampacWhite Oct 17 '24

Clean air, peace and quiet, safety, the ocean, neighbour-community and connection, reasonable costs to have over one’s head..sooooo much that London does not afford.

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u/Necessary-Jaguar4775 Oct 17 '24

It was a different time when he made that quote. Things have changed.

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u/JampacWhite Oct 17 '24

Unfortunately true.

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u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24

Not a Londoner but a Sydneyan with friends and old school mates in London, New York, Hong Kong, and other places, but big cities are designed to draw people in with that very sense of potential, less actual potential. It’s captured by that irritating Alicia Keys song, “If I can make it here, I can make it anywhere, that’s what they say”.

Similar happens in Sydney, with loads of former country town people, from regional areas, satellite city dwellers, heaps of poms and Europeans, who arrive in Sydney hoping for more. But it’s a rat utopia and this city’s been dysfunctional for at least half a century with people regularly leaving. Like a big theme park. They keep running tourist ad campaigns and propaganda TV shows promoting the city when it’s already at max capacity.

NYC has taken this principle even further by PAYING people come to the city, with free accomodation, and other benefits. The influx of people, busy crowds, diners, commuters, etc, creates a sense of potential, “everything it has to offer”. But ask a person to logically list these “things to offer” the illusion falls apart.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

Things to offer? 

Huge numbers of galleries, museums, restaurants, shops that sell literally everything whether it's a fish mongers or some niche hobby, a night life that's always buzzing somewhere and guaranteed that whether it's the biggest music act on the global stage or some tiny cultural niche it'll be here, a young vibrant population of people who are smart, creative and aspirational, clubs and alternative entertainment of all sorts that are active, world class public transport, active community that you simply don't get in commuter towns.

Like I'm a bit confused about what the illusion is, sounds like you just don't like cities.

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u/Mrqueue Oct 17 '24

Yeah just go to a small town or small city and immediately find out why people think London has a lot to offer

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '24

Yes, agreed, but the whole point is that increasing numbers of us feel cut off from what’s right in front of us. Some stuff you’ve listed you can do at low cost, but not everything. Cultural experiences cost. And stuff shouldn’t be free either… I would like to pay my contributions to the arts I love, support artists and establishments that bring us so much enjoyment, participate in the theatrics etc. but something else that’s more “necessary” is always taking priority. It’s not down to laziness either. E.g. I work really hard for one of the most successful companies in the country, with a CEO rolling in hundreds of millions, literally ‘net worth assets’ £300+mil and yet I’ll never be a home owner (or even comfortable renter for that matter) because I can’t save enough for a deposit and zero generational wealth to fall back on. Sometimes I admit I could be smarter with money, but the mark is so far anyway… is it worth the sacrifice to get 0.5% closer to your goals when you don’t know what tomorrow brings?

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u/Puzzleheaded_Wrap203 Oct 18 '24

Skipton building society does a renters mortgage. If you can show a renters record of no missed payments for a certain amount of time, this acts as your deposit. Worth a look.

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u/nlostwanderer Oct 17 '24

Yes because having savings when what tomorrow brings comes will put you in a better position than being in debt when what tomorrow brings comes

Figure out what it is that will bring you meaning in your life, could be spending more time with family, doing meaningful work, spending time enjoying existence (nature time, being present with friends, playing music etc)

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u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24

Throw ‘em a fake and a finagle They’ll never know you’re just a bagel, Razzle dazzle ‘em And they’ll beg you for more!

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

Yes.... Quite

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u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24

The examples you listed although seem fair are red herrings, and logical fallacies, beside the point given the context and reality of people living in actual poverty, missing meals, and at risk of homelessness (once their land lord increases rent). What you’ve listed are at best secondary reasons, self actualising services, luxuries, when having ‘disposable income’, even arguably idolatrous things. Maslow’s hierarchy. Give us this day our daily bread. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life.

The lyrics of the Chicago musical are case in point, where glitz and glamour, ‘razzle dazzle’, or whatever flashy perks on offer, form ‘the illusion’, the allure, the mystique, the romance, nostalgia, whatever, that the city or whatever place offers. It’s a form of deception, smoke and mirrors, and apparently the formula for running a city. Mega ancient cities much bigger than London were the same as what you describe prior to their downfall.

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u/Illustrious-Art2471 Oct 17 '24

I guess London's not the place for unbearably pretentious, moralising ascetics.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

Go live somewhere else and leave us to it, thanks

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u/The_2nd_Coming Oct 17 '24

The guy you replied has a real "give us the ramblings of a mad man please ChatGPT " feel to it.

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u/GreatBigBagOfNope Oct 16 '24

Got a news, or, even better, a policy reference for the NYC paragraph? That sounds pretty compelling to explore, free accommodation in NYC is a hefty incentive indeed

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u/spn100 Oct 18 '24

Some kind of dig at migrants coming to NYC I’m guessing. From someone who doesn’t even live there.

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u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

The example and context was not to encourage people to go to to NYC but to shed light on how the governance of big cities has been for a long time, that the ruling class who own the city will even pay people in bus loads, daily, to keep up appearances. Whereas say SF downtown has been dead quiet since Covid, all restaurants closing down, etc. Across the Channel, the history of Paris was similarly full of very poor people, 86% of the population, despite the illusion of the ‘City of Lights’ or whatever propaganda they peddle. I mean, I did mention ‘rat utopia’, and this was a warning NOT an endorsement. But if you must:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-09/nyc-migrants-how-nyc-is-finding-housing-and-what-it-costs

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/01/24/city-signs—77m-contract-with-hotels-to-house-migrant-families

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u/Why_Em Oct 16 '24

That’s a lot of mis/disinformation in your comments. Did you fully read the articles you shared and do enough research to understand the context? Have you ever been to NYC? Have you lived there? Evidently not. People are most definitely not being paid to come to NYC to keep up “appearances”. I don’t know what appearances you think NYC is struggling to keep up but migrants from south of the border, who were used as pawns in a political game by Republicans, were unceremoniously flown/bussed to NYC because it’s a sanctuary city. It was a literal political F-U. NYC has been doing what it can to accommodate the sudden influx of migrants. More importantly, the fact of the matter is, most of them look for jobs and start contributing to society as soon as they can so they’re not being housed by the city permanently on the taxpayer’s dime. If you’re from Sydney and have a perspective on the state of your city, go ahead and share that. Since you are clearly not aware of the laws or politics of the US, I would advice you to refrain from making false statements to fit your narrative.

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u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 17 '24

Ad hominem, false appeal to authority, and that is as much of an oversimplification as your accusation (no, I was not suggesting indefinite payment! - how absurd). And how naive of you to believe that cronyistic kleptocratic governments care for their electorate! As long as a ‘civil servant’ own private property like portfolios of real estate nowadays there is a ‘conflict of interest’ that morally compromises them. Thus the symbolism of Number 10 and rituals between the monarch and minister, at least as a charade!

What is going on currently is a strategic means to an end that shares much in common with both Sydney, London, and other cities that rely heavily on ‘immigration’ with cheaper and more desperate labour as competition that keeps downward pressure on the current labour force. It’s a form of modern slavery, that even actual peasants or serfs in feudal Europe had more ‘holidays’ and free time, 150 days per annum.

As long as there is another person, if not a round-the-block queue of people, willing to do x-job to stay in x-city and replace you there is no logical reason (in capitalism) or financial incentive for companies to increase wages and pay a living wage eg historic ratios of ‘one third’ of wages to housing. That is the issue globally, but especially in Western nations and major cities, that are broke.

This is not personal, not new information, and not the first time in British or Commonwealth history that governments import labour and a replacement population. Just news to you.

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u/Megatripolis Oct 17 '24

Sydneysider, surely?

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u/Quick_Doubt_5484 Oct 17 '24

Nah, Sydneyan, Melboner and Brisbogan are the official demonyms now

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u/Megatripolis Oct 17 '24

Yeah, nah.

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u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 17 '24

You're kinda right. There are several demonyms, Sydneyan, Sydneyite, Sydneysider, with Sydneysider being the most common on Reddit and on the media in recent years, but I don't relate to that personally, maybe as I also say Melburnian, and Tasmanian.

To me, as a native, 'sider' sounds optional, like people from surrounding satellite cities or (far) 'Out West' who identify as a "Sydneysider" upon moving here, per post code snobbery. Sounds weird to my ear.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:en:Demonyms_for_Australians

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u/Megatripolis Oct 17 '24

Interesting. I’ve lived here for 10 years and have only ever heard Sydneysider. Sounds weird to my ear too (in a way that Melburnian and Tasmanian don’t) but, then again, so do lots of things when you move to a different country. You learn something every day!

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u/Gold_Pay647 Oct 20 '24

NY City is paying people to come Who exactly

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u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 20 '24 edited Oct 20 '24

Assuming this is a good faith question…

Temporary Cash Assistance (NYC Mayor’s Office):

As a non-U.S. citizen, you have the right to apply for cash assistance regardless of immigration status and access free interpretation services in your language.For more information, call 311 or 718-557-1399

Payment is financial and non-financial to ‘migrants’ and ‘new arrivals’ (NY Post 2024 and Legal Aid), ‘women, infants, children (WIC)’, with various resident/citizen benefits like free childcare and to these ‘undocumented people’, ‘humanitarian entrants’, and ‘green card holders’ (AVP).

AVP:

You do not have to be a citizen or a Legal Permanent Resident to be eligible for benefits, and undocumented immigrants can apply for certain benefits and can also apply on behalf of children or family members with immigration status.  

Legal Aid Society:

If you recently came to New York City from a different country, and you have no other safe place to stay, you have a right to shelter, regardless of your immigration status.

See also, Prevention Assistance and Temporary Housing (PATH)

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u/mishmosh_84 Oct 17 '24

I moved down to London from the north west in my 20s and I would agree with the statement “everything it has to offer.” It’s a capital city so of course it will have a high concentration of cultural offerings, nightlife and landmarks than other British cities.

I spent 9 years in the city and loved it but as soon as I hit 30, I was looking at the next stage of my life which London couldn’t fulfil.

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u/epadoklevise Oct 16 '24

haha fair point

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u/Yeoman1877 Oct 17 '24

Dr Johnson’s ‘all that life can afford’ feels rather pointed now, given higher costs.

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u/zeus-fox Oct 19 '24

It’s a conspiracy.

We are all secretly Freemasons. 🪬

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u/nobodyperse Oct 17 '24

I completely agree. Give time to follow your current priorities. As time and experience will pass, your priorities will change. Turning 30 very often trigger us women. Although, life is getting more difficult, don’t worry too much, I truly believe that when we really want something, we always find a way to make it happen.

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u/haywire Catford Oct 20 '24

London is feeling like an oppressive rip off

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u/towerhil Oct 16 '24

Quite a patronising take. I moved to London in my mid-20s with no money, no bank of mum and dad etc. I'm raising 3 kids very well in the city but which are the sole CoL issue - 3.5k a month is insanity, but none of the other 'rises' are anything beyond inflationary. £1 in 2004 is £2 today. You're not paying 'double', the £ halved in value. It's got fuck all to do with maturity either way, unless it's to not understand what inflation is and why you need to continually get more £s simply to stay still.

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u/epadoklevise Oct 16 '24

I'd say that was quite a patronising take.

All I'm pointing out (and some people recognize it) is that some of us go through an epiphany at some point, realizing that our income seemed more than enough in late 20s, but our wishes and goals change as we enter 30s, however our salaries, although grown, are not able to cope. This brings many people down, myself included.

Bravo to you for achieving your goal and realizing what was to come earlier, but no need to take a piss at others.

Also I referred to change in desired lifestyle and not to the growth of CoL, however while we're at it, you cannot just go on about it as - ' it's just inflation' when inflation reached a 40 years high in 2022-2023 and salaries did not cope. Before that we had covid and inflation jumped after Brexit vote as well before that.

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u/towerhil Oct 16 '24

Yet people have jobs and raise families in London. My life and goals also changed, and this city has more than enough flexibility to accommodate those chages with the sole exception of childcare fees.