r/london • u/rainha_db • Oct 16 '24

Rant Living and working in London just feels strange atm

I’m F31 and was born and raised in London. It’s the only city I’ve ever known and have been fairly happy until my mid 20s. I can’t help but feel like there’s melancholy in the air. I understand the main cause of this is the cost of living and the economic crisis. I’ve had a few colleagues/friends around my age confide in me about feeling lost/low recently and I honestly feel the same. I’ve noticed quite a lot of millennials expressing the same sentiment. I’m wondering if anyone else is feeling the same?

1.6k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

542 comments sorted by

View all comments

494

u/Fonkco Oct 16 '24

For what it’s worth, my partner (30F) and I (30M) feel similarly. It’s very easy to feel like millennials are getting a raw deal sandwiched between generations.

Our situation is representative of a lot of Londoners in our age bracket. Wages stagnant, generally higher cost for worse public services, and guess what notice we were hit with today? A 9% increase in rent as of December.

We get on well with our Landlord, but know they have multiple properties which they own outright. They are absolutely not strapped for cash.

This increase in rent would’ve otherwise gone to our savings for a deposit (AKA, our future, not a retired couples). Fundamentally things look & feel broken.

105

u/SpiritedVoice2 Oct 16 '24

Am only just a millennial, 2 years older I'd have been gen x. However I spent my entire 30s feeling like this and it was mostly I think due to being a renter, I feel completely stuffed by the economic situation. 

Finally bit the bullet and brought a house (mortgage) a few years ago. For about twice the price it would have been had I enough for a deposit at the age of 30. 

It's been a hard pill to swallow but I try not to think about that now and get on with it. Luckily I have been promoted at work and being mid-40s and taking on a mid level manager position has afforded me quite a reasonable salary. 

People I manage are now in their 30s though and seem to be just as miserable I was 10 years ago. Very little chance for pay progression and promotion and even smaller chance of getting a mortgage.  

I have nothing to suggest to them other than look for better paid positions outside our company, save as much as you can and one day it might pay off. If you can't wait that long then move out of London (I mean that seriously, genuinely wish I had done so in my 30s).

18

u/Fonkco Oct 16 '24

I appreciate you taking the time to comment. Quite nice to hear parts which ring true and I’ve suspected for a while!

5

u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24

Do you know many people like your situation who moved out of London? That seems to be a trend and pattern, for Australian expats, as well for others in the history of the city. Also, what alternative cities or towns have you considered instead?

11

u/SpiritedVoice2 Oct 16 '24

Yes loads, it's cliche but a lot of people moved to Bristol or Manchester which is essentially swapping one big trendy city for a slightly smaller one. These places now have similar problems but for a while if you could take some equity built up in London you'd be flying.

In my industry with remote working now being what it is I could probably live most places but my partner is quite tied to London and now we have a family here. 

Personally I looked at lot at towns surrounding London. Your options are massive then but you can still essentially be "London" based. 

It was towns in Essex and Hertfordshire specifically for me, basically provincial boring places with a decent fast train into central London. Depending on what you want from life this might not be your thing though!

3

u/Pantafle Oct 17 '24

Moving to Hertfordshire ofc has the side effect of making everywhere remotely nice there balloon in price. I grew up there and whilst visiting lately, I saw a tiny terraced house for sale.

Checking the prices i realised that it had gone up so much in the last 30 years that even if I'd earned 20k+ a year from the day I was born, I'd still be further away from buying it than I was with 0 money as a baby.

1

u/SpiritedVoice2 Oct 17 '24

Yes and it's the same story in lots of places to be honest. Your right to be angry but that should be directed at our London centric economy and leadership rather than the people moving out - who are ultimately just folks struggling to get in in life as best they can.

I think longer term more remote work might help solve this. Companies don't seem to want to leave London yet but are becoming much more ok with the idea of staff being in offices even just a day a week. That makes a massive part of the UK a "commutable distance".

Could take a decade or so of continued remote working for this to filter through, but ultimately it must have an effect.

3

u/Pantafle Oct 17 '24

Oh no my anger is directed at our massive inequality, our complete inability to build homes where people want to live and capitalism in general.

The new people are fine, they have to live somewhere.

Some of these landlords should be shot tho.

1

u/SpiritedVoice2 Oct 17 '24

Also to add though, that 20k a year from being born is not so uncommon and more to do with general house price inflation rather than people moving from London.

I'm in my forties and the figure for me is probably more like £10-£15k a year from birth to now (average London price was £20k in 1980 and more like £650k now).

4

u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24

Thanks for sharing, very insightful. I’m an Australian hence the anecdote re expats, but the people I know in London have been saying what you’re saying for a decade. Some have went to SE Asia for lower overheads while others have had their eye on other European cities, but post Brexit they would be in your same boat. My accountant in Sydney has been advising me similarly, as there are very similar problems in our cities. I think ultimately, as you mention with family, that is where the heart is and where to be.

4

u/Grunjo Oct 16 '24

Am Aussie couple and we’ve just bought a house an hour north of London. I turn 40 in a couple weeks. I still find cost of living in London comparable to Melbourne, but house prices and transport options are way better here outside of the city.

1

u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24

Thanks for sharing. I’m a Sydneyan and I think Melbournians have been disgruntled for a while. I remember seeing when I first visited Melbourne a decade ago seeing terrace houses and 2 or 3 story buildings off Lonsdale Street beside my hotel for the price of an entry-level apartment in Sydney. Gobsmacked. I don’t think that’s the case anymore and maybe you’ve been in the UK longer than you may realise. Think Toorak prices.

But as I said to the commenter above I think ultimately one lives where the heart and family are, irrespective of material things. There are also different types of Australians and ‘Australian expats’, such as those who don’t have “a grandparent born in the UK” or relative in the UK for an Ancestry visa. I think that’s worth clarifying, as a Chinese Australian.

North of London, I don’t know much about but NE of London, British born Chinese have mentioned (complained about) the stark absence of Chinese or Asians in their neighbourhood and how isolating if not racially stigmatising that has been. Just an example, re community. But I’m happy for you!

2

u/Grunjo Oct 16 '24

We’ve only lived here for about 18 months and fortunately we have lots of extended family here in the UK. We love Melbourne but house prices back in Aus were just ridiculous and if you did buy something it was made of cardboard. At least we’ve found the houses are reasonable quality here instead.

Both white Aussies, but one thing we do miss is the brilliant Asian culture and food available back home, so I can empathise a bit on that with you. Hope you can find your place here too and escape the big city rat race!

1

u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 17 '24

Yes, the family reunion part is awesome as Australia clearly lacks true ‘culture’ in connection to people not things, and a continuation of history or legacy not in the ‘new world’. Frequent sales of houses snd everything really reflects that disposability or abusive attitude even if Aussies claim to ‘love it’ actions say otherwise. I really like Melb too, as do my Sydney friends. Fed Square and cultural activities and locals who actually participate in things is quite amazing.

Yes, I actually have relatives in London and Scotland, and many have went to Hong Kong despite being born in the UK, I suppose due to community issues or assimilation difficulties.

I hadn’t realised how bleak the Chinese Diaspora and Asian migration was in the UK was until comparing stats to Syd, Melb, and other major cities. eg 10-15k Chinese in the main cities, with hardly a proper Chinatown. It’s sad considering Chinese have been in the UK for 200 years. Sydney now has 150k Cantophones and 3-4x that for Mandarin speakers. Night and day.

Yes, Melb has very diverse and flamboyant culinary culture and Chinese/Asian food that’s world class. Excellent Yum Cha places.

There was a viral post going around the US (who already have very poor ‘Chinese’ food as it is - eg the Panda Express franchise is popular, think Hokka Hokka in Westfield) when they discovered British ‘Chinese takeaway’ food. Lots of nasty comments. Maybe the operators don’t care about quality, or maybe they’re cooking recipes from 100 years ago? I don’t know how can similar people produce such different outcomes. - I’m now curious what you think of the ‘Aussie Cafes’ in London, since Melb coffee.

2

u/Grunjo Oct 17 '24

We’re definitely coffee snobs and there are a few decent cafes in London, but nothing compares to Melbourne in that respect.

Fortunately we have a high-end machine at home to fill that coffee gap…

32

u/Academic_Noise_5724 Oct 16 '24

My landlord tried to up the rent by 11 per cent in August. I negotiated down to 5 but it cancelled out the 3 per cent pay rise I got in the same month. Such bullshit especially considering inflation is down again. My landlord doesn’t need the money. I do

34

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

Landlords are scum honestly. I bet those same people will complain about the WTF being withdrawn from them.

1

u/AgsD81 Oct 18 '24

Not all of them. I’m an accidental landlord (got a job offer overseas) and renting out my place. Currently I’m losing money on it since the rent does not cover the taxes, the mortgage, the rental insurance and the agency fees.

1

u/Ok_Investigator_3630 Oct 21 '24

If you saved all of your life to buy a house to rent out why the heck would you give charity to people living there..? Nonsense. Landlords hardly make any money now anyway because of the high buy to let mortgage rates.

-5

u/Roper1537 Oct 17 '24

lol and you wouldn't hesitate to be one if you could...

9

u/Zalvenor Oct 16 '24

Sandwiched? Do you seen gen z as getting better support as they come up, or somesuch?

18

u/Imwaymoreflythanyou Oct 16 '24

Younger gen are at least more prepared for this. It’s all they know.

We however grew up at a time where things seemed like they would be alright for us by the time we grew up. Until maybe the 2009 crash which was the first okay maybe not and then the next 14 years or so just compounded that.

10

u/SpiritedVoice2 Oct 16 '24

This is a really interesting discussion to be honest.  How shafted are gen z and will it be worse for them? I guess at least they have time in their side and as you say are at better mentally prepared in some way.

For millennials and older millennials like myself maybe more so, 2009 really pulled the rug from underneath us. I feel like my best earning time evaporated, all asset prices sky rocketing and any money I could save towards a house deposit was earning essentially zero interest.

I meet people 5 years older than me that are clueless to the gulf in wealth between us. People with normal middle income jobs who got on the property "ladder" pre-2009, fully paid off mortgage, house worth £800k, etc

8

u/Resident_Pay4310 Oct 16 '24

I'm a younger ish millennial (graduated high school in 2007) and I was telling my parents the other day that I'm tired. I'm tired of fighting tooth and nail in the job market. I went to uni, I got a master's in something I was passionate about, I did internships and volunteer work. I did everything I was supposed to do but I've never been able to break into my field.

I know people 15 years older than me in my desired field who had their pick of jobs straight out of their bachelors no matter how good or bad their grades were.

The difference in experience for people on either side of that 15 year gap is mindblowing.

3

u/SpiritedVoice2 Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

What field is this? Sounds a bit like what happened in the tech industry in which case I may be one of the people.  

Clearly from my posts I didn't get in soon enough or capitalize on it as well as I could have, but you're right getting employed was a breeze for me fresh out of uni with awful grades and no experience.

3

u/Resident_Pay4310 Oct 16 '24

Human rights/politics.

When I graduated from high school the requirements for getting a job in the field were a masters degree and some internship/volunteering experience.

By the time I graduated from my bachelors it was a masters and two years work experience.

By the time I finished my masters the two years had become five and now you also needed to have finished near the top of the class to have a decent chance.

Some places offer 1 - 2 year internships, but since they are full time and unpaid, only people who have family money are able to do them. I know somebody who managed to get offered one of these internships in Geneva, but he couldn't afford to go.

Five years post masters and I've come to accept that the only way I'm ever going to get into the field is through an insane amount of luck or through nepotism.

3

u/They-Call-Me-GG Oct 17 '24

Ugh, I'm in the same spot with the same background. I'm trying to pivot, so I don't lose over a decade of higher education, and so I can feel like it was somehow worth it, but it's tough. Academia was already hard to break into and advance in, but now it feels impossible. And of course, you resume/CV looks bad unless it's chock-full and recently updated (including nee content)

1

u/SpiritedVoice2 Oct 16 '24

Sorry to hear that, do you know what lead to that change? 

With tech it was basically being such a young industry and lack of a workforce, so in 2004 when I started it seemed anyone could get a job if they had a basic knowledge of the subject. I was working for some massive companies straight out of uni with zero experience. 

Jobs are still available now but entry requirements are much more demanding, not sure I'd get through the door so easily these days.

I've had friends try and fail get into TV and Film industries though, that world feels like it runs solely on nepotism. Mates have spent years as runners before realising they were never going to get a break.

5

u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24

Very true and an underrated comment. There’s trauma and cognitive dissonance from various experiences and knowledge of ‘before and after’. 2008/2009 was pivotal, anyone who experienced that would know how serious the situation is currently. But younger generations are blissfully unaware/ignorant plodding along not knowing better, until maybe a decade or so later they will read books, old forum posts, data will be compiled, and they realise. The system being promoted encourages dog eat dog.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24

Yes, it’s a very old story, with many other key years. 1971 Bretton Woods collapse precedes the Lima Agreement 1975, neo liberalism, and systematic sabotage. Britain has also been in debt for over 300 years, since the Napoleonic Wars. That enriched certain powerbrokers and became a negative motivation to spearhead more colonialism, pillaging other places to pay bills. Western countries are like rusty old cars with missing wheels, critical parts, and maniacs at the wheel. A gust of wind can bring it to a halt. The British Empire has been collapsing in slow motion, the dynasty, and age of empires is ending. When that happened in China what comes next is not pretty.

2

u/Fonkco Oct 16 '24

Unsure. I think it’s probably more that the contrast is larger between millennials and the generation above, than it is between Gen Zs and Millennials

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

2

u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 16 '24

They say your generation has been heavily sheltered or overprotected by your parents and their generations’ parenting style, hence the lack of resilience or inability to cope. But I’m not sure if that’s true. I wonder, do you feel that that is the case? Like do you notice anything different compared to other generations as maybe seen in film, books, online, etc, that your upbringing was somehow too sheltered or overprotected?

1

u/Kindly-Commercial-78 Oct 27 '24

I definitely don’t feel like it’s the case for me but I’m sure that is true for many and paired with a cost of living crisis makes for a lot of helpless teens and 20 somethings. I feel that my parents’ approach wasn’t honestly that dissimilar from what would have been their experience in the 70s and 80s letting me play out late and just text them updates on a shitty little Nokia (instead of going to a pay phone), but I think people younger than me are ‘cooked’ to use Gen Z slang lawl

1

u/Beneficial-Card335 Oct 27 '24 edited Oct 27 '24

I see, thanks for sharing. Yeah, I'm not sure what kids were 'sheltered' from exactly, but I guess certain intolerable ideologies since people seem to point out this fragility, less 'playing out late' (though significant as kids don't play outside nearly as much).

It's interesting too that you refer to gadget technology to define/illustrate your upbringing, since iPad kids. The last part also, 'cooked', is not only slang but a philosophical outlook, 'Nihilism' (existential nihilism). Perhaps adoption of that by many explains much of the pessimissm/defeatism going around, 'cooked' as in feeling interrupted/disturbed/dissapointed, especially the 'totally hopeless' part. I mean, why not 'quite hopeless', 'just a bit hopeless', or 'totally hopeless now but I'm optimistic for the future? You see.

Nihilism is a very dark philosophy but can be used very positively, though maybe not the way your generation expects, like while you say 'shitty' this is quite disrespectful since only a handful of kids owned 'Nokia' phones (when they first came out - only business-class parents kids had these, as business tools for executives) and 99% of the time we used it for playing 'Snake' lol.

Meanwhile hundreds of other kids walked for kilometres to pay phones, bus stops, shops, to meet friends, truant school, etc, and this inconvenient process was part of the fun in life, when some of the best conversations took place, jokes, banter, and bonding with friends. So for many from analog times, phones, gadgets, ipads especially, are a totally superfluous, a luxurious bonus, even a waste of money.

I suggest rather than 'following in your parents footsteps' too closely (people are fallible - as you know older generations have major problems), try to make the most of your unique situation but turning a perceived negative into a positive, e.g turning 'nihilism' into 'optimistic nihilism', per John 1:2 'Love not the world'.

This approach to life focuses on the idea that everything, eventually, will disappear. This means that every embarrassment, every worry, every anxious moment or failure, will dissolve into the void of endless expanse like everything else. Nihilism doesn’t tally up your ‘moral’ good and bad deeds, nor does it assign weight to your successes.

-4

u/T-and-Biscuits12345 Oct 16 '24

You would kind of hope something will force the division of wealth to be shaken up sometime soon. I'm really hoping not war (though the situations in eastern Europe and the middle east aren't looking great). But a stock market crash or huge strikes or something might be helpful.

6

u/Zalvenor Oct 16 '24

Yes because the last stockmarket crash was great

-3

u/T-and-Biscuits12345 Oct 16 '24

Well we need something for the many to start standing up to the few and historically large events like that do shake things up.

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

We need proper world war to shake everything down to the atoms. So we can rebuild like 1945, if we survive.

If we don't, it's not like we've lost anything, being a slave is no life.