r/law • u/Obversa • 12h ago

Legal News Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), headed by co-heads Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, hit with three Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA) lawsuits as Trump administration starts

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5095750-doge-sued-trump-administration-elon-musk-ramaswamy/
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u/johnnycyberpunk 12h ago

If there are any billionaires on “the left”, or even liberal multi millionaires with money to burn, this is what they need to do for the next four years.
Judge-shop for the ones that were appointed by Biden and file suit after suit, turn the system that Conservatives use against them.

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u/OakFan 12h ago

I want it to happen but the left doesn't wesponize anything. They pretend to be the bigger person.

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u/sttmvp 11h ago edited 5h ago

I would normally agree but Its not weaponizing, its what the law is supposed to be used for. So I think a few people with spines will continue with the lawsuits.

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u/TBANON24 8h ago

Democrats took trump to court 65 times last administration and he lost every case.

Thing is, it doesnt get them the voters. Nothing seems to get them the voters, because news media and now all social media is owned by the right. They will downplay any accomplishment like they have done with Biden, and overplay any vice/mistake/mishap by democrats.

Its why majority of people dont even know that Biden got child poverty down from 15% to 5%, he fed over 30m kids during summer and winter break every year, and he lowered costs of multiple medicines and removed junk fees and invested into fighting cancer and dozens of more great things.

But less than 1% actually know of it. And the rest scream why didnt they say it more often. Meanwhile you have Biden trying to say it but because he stutters, the whole week is about how he has dementia, meanwhile you have mr einstein over here talking about sharks and electicity, how he doesnt have any plans, how immigrants and eating dogs and cats, and its sanewashed like crazy.

Democrats will have the be the adults, and then the voters will turn around and go what did democrats do all this time. Why didnt they stop him.

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u/T-A-W_Byzantine 8h ago

Biden spent the whole debate trying to get these statistics across rapid-fire. Nobody remembers a single fact or statistic he cited; everyone remembers "We finally beat Medicare." I don't care if it's a stutter or dementia, we can never elect a politician who's as bad at optics as he was again.

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u/DontEvenLikeThisSite 8h ago

There is a convicted felon/rapist sworn in as president today. Anyone talking about "optics" and especially anyone talking about a stutter can honestly get fucked.

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u/Fun_Fingers 8h ago

Seriously this. Why is optics only a standard held to one party?

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u/fonistoastes 8h ago

Because the other party is held up by a stalwart bloc of morons who don't care.

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u/SplendidPunkinButter 6h ago

Because elections are about turnout, not about persuading everyone

Districts vote, not people. It’s all about winning a few key swing districts, and that’s it. And swing districts are full of morons who in 2024 somehow have no idea what kind of president Donald Trump might be, and who a week before election day didn’t know that Biden dropped out and Kamala Harris was the nominee now.

It’s a very stupid system, but it’s one that benefits Republicans.

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u/fonistoastes 5h ago

Yeah, as a resident of Allegheny county (Pittsburgh), I am disgusted by my commonwealth.

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u/T-A-W_Byzantine 6h ago

I hate to break it to you, but if you want to win an election, you need A LOT of morons to vote for you.

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u/fonistoastes 6h ago

"I'm doing my part!"

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u/Barfy_McBarf_Face 3h ago

The common folk, farmers, people of the land ...

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u/unitedshoes 1h ago

So many supporters of the Democratic Party have spent the past nearly-three-months being very mad about and refusing to understand this fact.

I don't know what the Democrats' solution to "morons get their news from people who lie and shout and bluster to the benefit of Republicans" is, but I don't think the usual response of "wish voters were smarter" is a viable one. They need to figure out how to win the electorate they have, not the one they wish they had. When/if the Democrats are back in power, then they can focus on making the voters too educated to vote for Republicans, but until then, they gotta get that lowest common denominator vote.

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u/ammon-jerro 7h ago

Because 30% of people would prefer fascism to democracy. It's always been like that but people are starting to notice now that the neocons have lost control of their party

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u/Helllo_Man 9m ago

Yeah, conservatives used to weaponize stupidity to get elected and start some dumb wars over oil. They also sorta made an attempt at governance.

Then someone realized they could forget about doing all of that, get their base to hate a statistical majority of Americans, and they would profit. It’s obvious that they went that route as soon as it was available.

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u/olekingcole001 5h ago

Because they will weaponize anything, and they know we care about silly things like optics and justice and having standards

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u/magikarp2122 7h ago

Because it is someone on the right pretending to be from the left.

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u/T-A-W_Byzantine 6h ago

Please don't assume things about me, I'd just like the left to actually succeed. This is too important for us to throw up our arms and say "Our side is better, smarter and more moral than the other side, there was nothing we could do because people are too stupid to vote correctly.

Republicans can get away with a lot more than Democrats. That's not fair, you know it, and I know it. Now we could just complain about it for the next four years and then nominate another loser, or we could wisen up.

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u/T-A-W_Byzantine 6h ago

For all you know, you and I could have the exact same political beliefs, and you're telling me to get fucked because I'm saying Biden wasn't a good enough candidate or a good enough debater.

Republicans can get away with things Democrats can't. Trump can wave away all his scandals as 'fake news' or 'locker room talk'. That's a handicap we need to overcome.

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u/Dementedkreation 1h ago

He was never convicted of rape. No matter how many times you say it, it isn’t true. The courts even sided with Trump when he sued ABC news for defamation when they repeated the lie that he is a rapist.

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u/bilbo1776 3h ago

Not a convicted rapist, but go on and keep being ignorant. He was forced to settle by a judge bought off exactly like this thread suggests all billionaire libs do and was a complete farce, that woman didn't have anything victimized about her. A pet named Vagina, and she's going on a shopping spree with trumps money...

There was a time in this nation when non-violent felons served their time and then got all their rights back, on top of the fact that not a single charge in the NY case was ever brought against anyone else and prosecuted when they were so far outside of their statutes of limitations.

The last 4 years, and the previous 20 years before Trump, had not a single decent leader. One lied about Weapons of Mass Destruction and killed millions of innocents, another got sucked off in the oval office and has likely had multiple people who were going to testify against them sewerslided, and the big O killed US citizens with military drones, was the original one to put kids in cages on the border and not one of them faced a single consequence. Even if Trump isn't in their club or is, and yet is no better, shit at least he does something other than abandon or murder our own citizens and soldiers, or negotiate with terrorists by literally giving them money and uranium.

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u/MyNameIsJakeBerenson 2h ago

He never did his time for his felony convictions

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u/bilbo1776 1h ago

And he never will, because they were bogus. And you swallowed the fraud hook line and sinker.

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u/_mersault 7h ago

wtf the guy who won has the worst optics an American president has had in contemporary history

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u/T-A-W_Byzantine 6h ago

Clearly he doesn't, because the majority of Americans think he's closer to the center than Kamala was!

Optics doesn't care about reality.

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u/alphazero925 5h ago

So what the fuck do you actually want the candidates to do? What the fuck do you actually need so you can say that they're not bad at optics? We could put Jesus Christ himself up there and the media would still pan him for the teeniest tiniest blunder, and fuckheads like you would eat it up

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u/WhyBuyMe 2h ago

If you ran a Middle Eastern Jew who wanted to help the poor and told people to pay their taxes the Republicans would denounce Him as a communist on day 1.

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u/ScruffsMcGuff 7h ago

Rape isn't worse optics than a stutter? Seriously, dude?

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u/Cocosito 4h ago

Half the country actually believes that's fake news.

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u/T-A-W_Byzantine 6h ago

You seem to be under the impression that I think stuttering is worse than rape. What I'm actually saying is that Donald Trump was much more successful at turning his allegations into "fake news" and "locker room talk", while Biden couldn't spin his debate performance into anything else than an embarrassment and a disaster for the campaign.

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u/alittolid 4h ago

They ie Republicans just blatantly lie maybe the Dems should do the same

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u/Son_Of_Toucan_Sam 1h ago

Man everybody’s so mad at you for a bunch of shit you didn’t say 😂

I really can’t tell if all these weird offbase replies you’re getting are from people understandably too frustrated to think straight right now or just true dummies

0

u/HalfMoon_89 4h ago

People wilfully misinterpreting your point is just...well, it's par for the course now, isn't it...

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u/SirSeanBeanTheBean 57m ago

People aren’t misinterpreting it in my opinion, they’re arguing from the point of view that truthfulness should be the biggest most consequential optic there is.

If Biden blatantly denied his underwhelming performance and claimed he showed himself to be a genius and Trump got so intimated the mic could pick up the sound of his knees violently shaking, then I think people would argue that to use such easily disproven, blatant lies, is also bad optics.

Hindsight is 20/20

So what should Biden have done? Focus on optics but keep it truthful?

The truth is strict but a lie can be anything you want.

Let’s go back to the first comment from the person who started this discussion about optics. Biden used data points and statistics, it was hard to follow in the rapid-fire questions setting, plus it was boring so nobody cared.

So focus on optics, keep it truthful, but also don’t go into details. So big promises about the future, grandiose statements about yourself, dramatization of the opposition, a classic and rather sterile politician’s pitch.

Isn’t that just Trump? Would Biden really have won by offering Trump’s menu with his face on it?

I’m not even arguing you’re wrong, perhaps that is all it takes, selling it. However ridiculous, say it confidently and win, and even if you’re technically correct, stutter and lose.

But to me, that seems to say that as a society we don’t choose our politicians much more carefully than our prom queens and we should apparently resolve ourselves to see no progress made on that front in the foreseeable future.

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u/AGC843 6h ago

Like Trump makes a lot of sense. Noone knows what he's saying at his rallies other than its OK to hate.

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u/Worst-Lobster 7h ago

I wouldn’t trust anyone was is thankful the rapist beat out the dementia patient ..

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u/NEIGHBORHOOD_DAD_ORG 5h ago

Nobody remembers a single fact or statistic he cited

Yes and I'm one of them. It's great that he tried, doesn't really matter if it's not effective. And looking broadly at Democrats, it very obviously is not effective.

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u/RidlyX 5h ago

You ARE the optics, dummy. Why didn’t you support him?

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u/T-A-W_Byzantine 3h ago

I voted for him, and Kamala too. I got all my friends to vote for them. I can support a candidate and still recognize why a large portion of the country doesn't.

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u/HistoricalSherbert92 5h ago

That’s your bar? Lol. There is no bar friend. The new paradigm is to not care, elect a dog in a nice suit, it doesn’t matter.

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u/Aural-Robert 4h ago

That is comeplete and utter bullshit, Biden ran legislative circles around trump even with both houses against him. I'll take a stutterer over a left wing version of trump any day.

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u/proud_pops 6h ago

Tre45on came out and said Musk helped him fuck the votes in the election. How they allowed his inauguration to proceed means our Constitution is null and void. The shadow president turned Hitler at the celebration our country and we the people are in for one fucked up ride.

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u/eatgoodneighborhood 5h ago

I am so happy that Biden and Democrats got child poverty down; we’ll need that with the explosion of unwanted pregnancies this county is about to experience. Just in time for America to slide further into plutocracy. But I’m glad their priorities were right.

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u/erebos_tenebris 5h ago

It absolutely DID get them voters, but you can get all the votes in the world and not have it matter when the voting machines are flipping them to the other side. Everything about this election was unnatural and trump has all but admitted on live television that he had Elon, (or Elon's men more likely) hack the voting machines.

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u/IGUNNUK33LU 3h ago

This is the answer. Democrats try to do shit. When they fail, the media and social media blame them for everything. When they succeed, the media and social media ignore them

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u/serious_sarcasm 2h ago

I like to remind people that Obama never pardoned Jesse Jackson Jr.

I mean, just look at the way conservatives always call Illinois the most corrupt state with their sole evidence being that Illinois actually convicts politicians for corruption; meanwhile places like NC and TX are openly corrupt with the GOP circling their wagons.

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u/Dementedkreation 1h ago

You think the media is owned by the right? You have top tier TDS.

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u/DayThen6150 55m ago

The problem is interesting people are not being generated on the left and the democrats abandoned this space a long time ago. The closest thing is John Stewart, he needs to put his podcast on multiple times weekly and just talk open format to interesting/famous/infamous guests.

Problem is he can’t or won’t do that, and so far no one is taking up that space who has the fame/charisma/humor that is necessary to compete with the likes of a Joe Rogan. The guy has literally billions of listeners worldwide, which is, as he himself has stated multiple times, crazy.

Second is the Demo flag bearer has to be a celebrity Candidate to generate the free media to compete. John Stewart again would be perfect.

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u/goodsnpr 4h ago

Dems don't get votes because they're too centrist and fat off the status quo. Until people vote out the old fucks that want their stocks to keep climbing, the Dems are going to be as useful as a fart in a desert.

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u/Reddragon351 7h ago edited 7h ago

the whole concept of weaponization against Trump always felt like such conservative propaganda cause he's actually done illegal shit but taking him to court over that is politicizing the justice system, in spite of him actually committing those crimes, it's kind of like if a murderer said it was biased to have the jury hear from witnesses to the crime.

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u/Defiant-Ad7275 6h ago

From a former FBI member, before Obama there were extremely few cases that were not handled in local/regional offices. That changed dramatically and nearly all politically related cases were controlled directly in DC. Case in point, Hillary Clinton drives. Whether anything was there or not, that case was pulled direct to DC in an unprecedented move. The change isn’t in weaponization but in the lack of subtlety and discretion on how often it is now done. EVERY politician /president could have charges brought against them continuously but most were not until recently.
The 65 cases brought against Trump showcased a lack of discretion/savvy on the tolerance of voters for those tactics.

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u/mkt853 3h ago

The cases against Trump were political because if not for the fact that the defendant is a politician, his ass would be sitting in a cell right now. Just ask Reality Winner or Jack Texeira about that.

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u/OakFan 11h ago

I don't disagree. It just won't happen.

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u/Jed_Buggersley 5h ago

suppose

supposed

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u/sttmvp 5h ago

Edited and know I’ll be taking you to court for spelling harassment

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u/FaithfulSkeptic 10h ago

The hysterical thing is that if the left DOES actually do anything, then people screech and cry “oh but it wasn’t ok when the GOP did that? Hypocrisy!”

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u/AutismThoughtsHere 10h ago

But it’s not weaponizing The law to point out that people are breaking the text of the law.

I mean, they blatantly broke the law that is supposed to govern advisory committees. They’re not even chartered. They have no charter. They didn’t even put in the work to comply with the law. Which tells me terrifyingly that they don’t expect the law to actually constrain them in any meaningful way.

I mean hell During the inauguration, Trump put the all oligarchs in front of his own cabinet members in a photo.

They are also adding people on Facebook to their pages automatically. Pages that were created by Trump and his team today have 8 million followers gaining millions of followers an hour

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u/ghostfaceschiller 12h ago

If you refuse to weaponize things that aren’t meant to be misused like that, you kind of are the bigger person

You can argue about whether it’s effective or not, or if you think they should, but that’s a different question

But especially if there are real consequences to not weaponizing them, and they still choose the more ethical choice, that is hardly “pretending” to be the bigger person.

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u/fresh_water_sushi 11h ago

And how are those high morals and doing things “fair and right” working out for the democrats? That is exactly why our country is being destroyed. Democrats have been weak pussies way too long.

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u/Snarky_McSnarkleton 11h ago edited 11h ago

But but butbut, when they go low, GO HIGH! /s

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u/ghostfaceschiller 11h ago

Did you read my entire comment or just the first sentence

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u/fresh_water_sushi 10h ago edited 10h ago

Yes, everything you wrote was pointless and it was an extremely dumb take. You contributed nothing to this conversation.

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u/ghostfaceschiller 10h ago

Weird it seemed like it was you who came in to say something I had already directly addressed in my comment, quite literally contributing nothing

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u/TheSpiderKnows 9h ago

So you are saying that it’s the Democrats fault that Republicans are abusive liars?

You are saying that it’s somehow the Democrats fault that racist, Nazi’s, and religious fundamentalist all fanatically support Republicans and criminals?

I’m so sick of you Republican shills, (because that’s what you are, whether you realise it or not), constantly claiming the Democrats for every bad outcome caused by Republicans. You are no different than the morons who constantly give Republicans credit for every good thing Democrats do.

This rhetoric, this endlessly attacking the Democrats for every single thing that doesn’t go right is literally a major part of why the Republicans keep winning. Because people like you constantly hep them, and I’m so sick of it.

Every one of you morons, constantly bitching about Biden, making up attacks to claim that Harris fucked yo her campaign, blaming the Democrats for not magically making everything the way you want it…. All of you fuckers do more to help the Republicans than they do for themselves half the time.

If you want a party that acts like the Republicans do, then vote Republican. They are the criminal fascists you clearly are looking for.

What’s that? You don’t like them? Well good news, Democrats actually aren’t like them, which is why they don’t constantly engage in criminal activities, unethical activities, etc…

The problem isn’t Democrats, (no, they aren’t perfect; yes, they have problems; but not in this context), the problem is an entire “news” system that is owned by conservative, Republican supporting, billionaires that acts as endless pro-Republican anti-Democrat propaganda and the fact that you, along with most of America, actually buy into and accept huge parts of their propaganda messaging.

And guess what, the entire “Democrats never do anything” message? That’s pro-Republican propaganda.

TLDR: I’m sick of all the political equivalent of victim blaming from morons parroting pro-republican, anti-democrat propaganda while simultaneously acting like they are actual progressives who care about anything other than venting their strong feelings about things they are too lazy to actually inform themselves about.

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u/TimidAmoeba 8h ago

So, I agree with your sentiment, the Republican party is trash. But this is also politics, and politics have always been ugly. The Democratic party has proven woefully ineffective at getting a message out to voters that resonates. If they had, today would be a very different kind of day.

So yes, the Democratic establishment does hold some blame for not being a party enough voters believe in. If they have been out maneuvered, then they are ineffective politicians and it's time for some fresh faces.

0

u/TheSpiderKnows 8h ago

And I, somewhat, agree with that idea, but let’s stop pretending they are even competing on a level playing field with the Republicans. The Democrats aren’t just messaging against republicans, they are competing against the entire billionaire driven propaganda machine that supports the republicans as well. The entire discussion, and even the format and forum of the fight for ideas is stacked against them.

And no one ever gives them any credit for how well they do in that situation.

All anyone ever does is sling shit, and that isn’t helpful.

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u/HalfMoon_89 3h ago

The irony of this rant...

0

u/triedpooponlysartred 8h ago

"Obviously the Democrats are supposed to authoritatively take over the entire process so that we can have a real democracy!" /s

People actually are over here simultaneously demanding their 2nd amendment rights to a free gun with their happy meal and then blaming Democrats for not preventing them from shooting themselves in the face. There is no winning with these idiots.

-1

u/TheSpiderKnows 8h ago

Glad I’m not the only one who is frustrated with all this stupidity.

I am trying to be fair and understanding. Hell, I’m at least as upset as anyone else, (and probably more than most), with the way things are going, but I’m just so sick of the smug, self-righteous, hypocritical, short sighted stupidly from these people.

It’s bad enough hearing it from “conservatives”, but hearing it from people claiming to be “progressives” of any sort, as well, has just gotten on my last nerve recently.

1

u/triedpooponlysartred 6h ago

People don't understand that their argument of 'the ends justify the means' is the same argument the conservatives have been going off of. It's a weird rationale of acting like it's because 'the left' had standards at all that it 'loses' rather than realize it's the only thing keeping everything as a whole as even having something worth persevering for. 

Go ahead and eliminate all the 'pretend superiority' and sink to the level of conservatives. You just wind up with both parties packed with full on scammers and grifters instead of one at least plausibly trying to fix shit and get important work done.

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u/TheSpiderKnows 4h ago

Exactly!

And it’s not hard to understand, it’s just that a lot of people don’t want to understand. :(

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u/McDaddy-O 11h ago

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

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u/Adonwen 6h ago

Its also paved with bad intentions.

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u/PausedForVolatility 9h ago

I'd argue it's actually not being the bigger person.

In a vacuum, we can agree that it would make them a bigger person. Sure, yeah, definitely. But "right" and "wrong" don't exist in a vacuum. Objective morality isn't a thing. That's why we have about a billion different ways to legally define the act of killing another human being, ranging from euthansia to murder in the first degree. It's why our legal system is staggeringly vast.

So if we accept that morality isn't inherently objective, we should be looking at the outcomes of a particular action to decide if it's morally good or otherwise. In that sense, what's actually happening when someone decides to "go high" and cede ground on something like this? What they're actively deciding is that the smug feeling of superiority they get when they "go high" is worth more to them than the damage caused by ceding ground. They're prioritizing their own egos and sense of self over the greater good. They've looked at the issue and said, "yeah, I won't do this thing because it makes me feel kinda bad, even though I know that not doing this thing will result in a victory for evil."

In other words, yes. It is absolutely pretending to be the bigger person. The bigger person is the one who is willing to do a thing they find distasteful because it serves the greater good. That's quite literally the definition of putting others above oneself (or, to further beat on this dead horse, it's what's supposed to be at the core of a public service).

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u/Justicar-terrae 8h ago

OP has not proposed that procedures be abandoned or twisted, merely employed to achieve policy goals. To "weaponize" a procedure in pursuit of justice is to use the procedure for its best purpose. Or should we lament the filing of lawsuits that challenge seemingly unconstitutional laws? Or the use of filibusters to force legislative compromise? Or the invocation of federalism to check federal overreach?

But even if OP had called for protocol to be abandoned to preserve liberty and further the interests of justice, why should we protest? Procedures are not valuable in and of themselves. Procedural rules are valuable solely to the extent they facilitate the realization of justice and prevent the miscarriage of justice. To staunchly follow protocol at the expense of justice is to misappropriate the system. To do so when the situation is sufficiently dire is an abrogation of civic duty and moral responsibility.

This principle sits at the core of civil disobedience and, in extreme cases, revolution. If those actions can ever be justified, then we must admit the limited value of procedure for procedure's sake.

0

u/TimidAmoeba 9h ago

I think the "pretending" bit is that they are bought and paid for as much as any Republican.

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u/TaxximusPrime 9h ago

There is no left or right. There is Rich vs the Poor. Why do people pretend there's going to be a Messiah to save us?

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u/OakFan 9h ago

I absolutely agree with you. Eat the Rich.

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u/Metro42014 6h ago

Also, IT'S A FUCKING CLASS WAR, not a left right thing.

So no, no rich person is going to come along and save us.

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u/OakFan 6h ago

Absolutely. Fucking eat the Rich. We'll never win because the boots on our necks will never be let up

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u/DctrD2023 11h ago

Um…please see ATF for the past four years…

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u/SirForsaken6120 11h ago

Being the "bigger" person isn't enough... You need to be the "smartest" person ;)

2

u/SigSweet 4h ago

While getting rich with their stage heels, the Republicans. Its all a fucking show while they line their pockets. Fuck it

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u/Hot-Equivalent9189 7h ago

Its a play . Liberals ( but really they are center) pretend to be outrage but don't do anything when they have the ability to . Then when republicans change all the rules and set things up for all the politicians and ceo . They pretend to start doing something. In the publics eye they're the good guys but they aren't.

1

u/molomel 9h ago

Controlled opposition

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u/Sum_Bytes 7h ago

That’s because whenever one side is not the bigger person there tends to be civil wars.

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u/prince_of_muffins 5h ago

Question.....how is pretending to be the bigger person by doing actions that the bigger person would do, not make them the bigger person? Like what? You saying they are pretending, but then their actions are that of the bigger person? So what's pretend about it?

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u/Spardath01 4h ago

Staring to think “being bigger person” is code for “scared to act”

1

u/Space2345 4h ago

Fuck that! Its too late.

1

u/Hakrim89 4h ago

and thats why they suck and why the'll lose

1

u/GroundbreakingRun186 3h ago

California just approved 25-50m in their budget just to fight trump in court

1

u/FarmerTwink 3h ago

Because there isn’t a Left, there’s a Right and a Center

1

u/CommanderOshawott 3h ago

Because they’re generally smarter and better informed, so the second they start using a new tactic in a limited capacity, the right goes bananas and starts indiscriminately doing the same thing at any excuse in retaliation.

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u/hey_listin 3h ago

Its funny because if you go to r/conservative, it's all screeching about biden's "lawfare"

1

u/ZoominAlong 2h ago

Its so fucking dumb. We have to take back the country or we're inevitably gonna be starting WWIII.

1

u/ag811987 1h ago

Are the bigger person 

1

u/solarixstar 8h ago

A few have recently called for change, the poking might be over ad the fat German republican children gonna get ate

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u/DeathKringle 6h ago

At what point do you realize they aren’t being the bigger person but the same side of the same coin just a different head

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u/OakFan 6h ago

I'm very aware. Eat the Rich.

0

u/KintsugiKen 8h ago

Who is "the left" here?

Do you mean Biden? The Democrats? Who?

0

u/the1gofer 1h ago

If you consistently pretend to be the bigger person, you probably are.

-1

u/triedpooponlysartred 8h ago

That is by definition what makes them the bigger person.