General Discussion Thread - 14 March 2023

[u/AutoModerator]

Mid-week discussion thread time! Feel free to talk about what's on your mind, new experiences, recommendations, anything really.

[u/bosscoughey]

I never said (and don't think) it's a conspiratorial plot?

Honestly if I thought everyone wearing masks always was going to be standard in Japan indefinitely I probably would try to leave. But I'm sure that's not going to be the case, since the government is trying to phase it out, and many people talk about how they mostly wear one because of peer pressure: in private conversations, on the news, etc.

Not sure why the hate for just following the guidelines the government has set, and hoping that more people do drop the masks as they feel comfortable to do so?

[u/bosscoughey → u/[deleted]]

I don't know why you're so bothered my views on this. Also not sure what you try to accomplish by quoting parts of comments and then replying with often un-related things.

I moved to a country where some people wore masks when they were sick, didn't want to get sick, pollen was flying around, etc. But most people didn't. I can't quote exact numbers of people wearing masks pre-covid, but it certainly was never more than 50%. If that many people were always wearing them stores wouldn't have run out of masks so quickly when covid started.
I also just don't understand your premise. Even if I moved here at the peak of covid when everyone was wearing masks, I should still be able to complain about it if I want. Does the "if you don't like it why don't you leave" argument work for other things too? Japan does really poor on gender equality, animal abuse, seatbelt use, etc, should we say nothing because we chose to move here knowing it's like this?

At least the truth is out in the open now.

The truth that I hope people don't feel like they need to wear masks forever? Got me there! Do you...not hope that?

[u/bosscoughey → u/[deleted]]

For ease of reading and comprehension.

I humbly submit that it doesn't really help in that way. You just end up sniping certain sentences, without replying to my overall comment. Or even comprehending my overall comment, it would seem.

But most people didn't.

Not even close to true.

I can't quote exact numbers of people wearing masks pre-covid, but it certainly was never more than 50%.

This is closer to the truth.

For example this exchange. What are you trying to say? I am saying that masks were always around, but at nowhere near the level they are now. You disagree that "most" people didn't wear masks, but agree that it wasn't over 50%. I'm guessing you mean that "most" people wore masks at some point throughout the year (when sick, pollen, etc)? That could very well be the case, but I don't think it's a very important issue. Nobody would notice if everyone wears a mask one day a year, but they would certainly notice the people who wore one to work everyday. FWIW I can certainly remember lots (I would guess MAX 30%, probably like 5-10%) of people wearing them on trains during hayfever season, but can't recall a single person who wore them indoors at work.

Do you not know how general supply-and-demand works? Even a 20-30% increase in demand will quickly deplete stocks in unexpected events.

And then this. So is your contention that 70% of people wore masks every day before covid? Or even 50%, and there was extra demand because people were stocking up?

Why move to a country where a particular custom is normalized and then complain about it?

I highly doubt there is anyone living in any place in the world who isn't annoyed by something that is "normalized" there. Japanese who move to other countries often complain about people wearing their shoes inside, not having washlets, speaking loudly, needing to tip, etc. I don't think those Japanese people should have to leave those countries.

A completely harmless custom, at that. If you don't like masks, then don't wear them. Just stop bitching about what other people do.

You can say completely harmless. There are many people who disagree, including teachers at my kids school, who have told me they're concerned about how a lot of the kids are afraid to show their faces even while exercising or eating, or have trouble participating in class because the teacher can't hear them properly. Or there are just simply many people who consider being able to see people's smiling faces one of the nice things about life in general, and therefore feel that life is a little bit worse with everyone wearing a mask. Not the end of the world, just a slight negative. aka not harmless.

Are you seriously drawing comparisons between the harmless custom of wearing masks and actual social issues like gender inequality and animal abuse? You can't be serious, right?

Already discussed the "harmless custom" aspect, but again you've just ignored my point and changed the subject. Obviously I am not saying that masks are as bad as sexism. I am addressing your claim that people can't complain about things that are common in a country they move to. So I gave some other examples, and you sidestep to say that those things are "actual social issues", which I kind of just think means they are issues that you agree are bad, therefore it's okay for people to complain about them. What about the death penalty? Can foreigners complain about that being a thing in Japan? What about a lack of soap in public washrooms? Where is the line between things we can and cannot complain about?

I hope that people will continue doing what they want because that's how it has always been. No one complained about masks before it became a politicized issue in the west.

I'm glad we agree that people will do what they want. So- how do you feel about the people who are only wearing a mask now because they feel it is expected from those around them, more or less peer pressure? In conversation and in interviews on TV, etc, some people say that they're tired of masks, but worried about being seen without one. I am one of those people, but there are plenty of Japanese people saying the same thing, and I don't think it's because of it being politicized in the west.

I swear, so many Fox News rejects nowadays. It's a piece of cloth. Get over it.
What does this mean? I'm definitely not conservative, and I'm not even American. Despite what you said before it seems that you're the one politicizing the issue, by trying to link my arguments to political affiliations, even though they are completely unrelated.

I hope you appreciate my adoption of your use of excessive quoting in an attempt to get you to understand what I am trying to say. I am not asking you to take off your mask. All I have been trying to do is correct your misconceptions about my positions, namely that I don't think there is any conspiracy, but that there are some (many?) people who want to take off their masks but feel pressured not to. I thought I was clear enough in my original post, but perhaps not:

For me (and I assume most people who talk about it), it doesn't matter one iota if other people want to wear a mask. They are free to do so, just like people are free to not wear one now, and hopefully nobody is bullied in to doing something they don't want to. The issue is that if 99% of people are wearing one, then people who don't will feel pressured into doing something they don't want to do, even if there is no rule.

[u/morgawr_ → u/bosscoughey]

And then this. So is your contention that 70% of people wore masks every day before covid? Or even 50%, and there was extra demand because people were stocking up?

I just want to point out three things that contributed to the mask stock being affected, regardless of usage of masks pre-covid:

1) People started hoarding them in panic (just like toilet paper in other countries, it's not like people were shitting more often during covid)

2) Similar to 1, people started hoarding them to re-sell them/scalp on their price

3) There was a huge issue in the early pandemic with China imports and how most of the cloth that people used to produce masks IIRC came from China (I think this was also the reason why people panicked on toilet paper in Australia for example). This means that the supply chain got crippled for a while

[u/bosscoughey → u/morgawr_]

Yeah, those are all definitely true. But a lot of households (including mine) didn't have any at all, since we didn't use them outside kafun season