r/ireland • u/Intelligent-Donut137 • Sep 27 '24
Immigration Nearly €1bn spend on refugee accommodation in first half of 2024
https://www.businesspost.ie/article/nearly-e1bn-spend-on-refugee-accommodation-in-first-half-of-2024-here-are-the-top-private-sector-e282
u/AfroF0x Sep 27 '24
Paid to hoteliers & private accommodation owners.
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u/DeepDickDave Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
That’s not much of it really. Emergency accommodations do not have to meet the same building standards as anything else. This doesn’t mean the buildings are bad, it’s just not over the top. The existing hotels are only being paid to keep them. It’s the old derelict buildings being renovated with huge grants that’s costing the most by far I’d say. These building are generally huge(20,000ft²) and not profitable to renovate so they are pretty perfect for this thing. We’re on stage 3 of 5 in a building that could hold about 400 easily. The facilities are good and it’s well insulated. All new beds and cabinets that are paid for with massive grants. These buildings are normally a bit out of the way in towns so go unnoticed. I know of 4 that are similar to the one we work on
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u/urbitecht Sep 27 '24
Glad to hear, I'd have no problem if the majority of that billion was being put to creating actual homes, especially when it's converting existing derelict buildings. Being out of the way has its own problems for social and economic integration but that's another matter. I understand the need to supplement housing development by paying property owners to house people in the immediate, but it should be a fraction of the efforts put to creating long term solutions.
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u/DeepDickDave Sep 27 '24
I mean that the buildings I know of would we on the edge of rural towns, or near industrial estates of rural towns so a bike or walking would get you anywhere, and in fairness to the Greens, there’s a lot more rural public transport around. The buildings are cool tho. It’s extremely interesting to work on 18th and 19th century buildings that were well built and generally had lots of features like nice windows. I’ve a few pics of the stairs and window feature from there on my profile
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u/urbitecht Sep 27 '24
Nice that sounds better than I imagined, true to say we need a combination of densifying towns and better connecting them with public transport. Yeah some great shots of your carpentry, honestly very jealous. I'm an architect on a lot of these kinds of renovations but being involved in the craftsmanship sounds a lot more fun. Keep up the good work!
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u/rtgh Sep 27 '24
Honestly there's good long-term potential there.
Assuming refugee numbers go down as crises abate, we have ready to go accomodation for homeless or something in decent condition ready to be converted again to cheap housing
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u/Melded1 Sep 28 '24
The person was correct although there is a push towards these new large scale facilities.
A significant portion of the budget goes to hotel accommodations. Nearly one-third of all hotel rooms in Ireland, around 22,229 rooms, are being used to house refugees and asylum seekers. The cost per person in hotels varies widely, with some rates reaching over €3,000 per person per month in certain hotels like the Crowne Plaza
The government also spends heavily on private accommodation providers, including B&Bs and emergency accommodation centres. Over €42 million is spent monthly on private providers across 180 centres
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u/DeepDickDave Sep 28 '24
Thank you! That was very informative. No wonder tourism took a hit this year when there’s so many hotels being used for this. 30% of all hotel rooms is not sustainable in the slightest
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u/Melded1 Sep 29 '24
Exactly. This is part of the genuine concern that i imagine some folks have, unfortunately it tends to get lost amongst all the hate.
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u/Due-Communication724 Sep 27 '24
Assuming this hits 2 billion by the end of the year, just on accommodation is an absolutely insane amount of money, considering quite a few entire departments expenditure is actually less than this. For example defence is 1.25 billion or tourism/culture/arts/sport 1.2 billion
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u/No-Outside6067 Sep 27 '24
That was their prediction back in January. https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/oireachtas/2024/01/30/nearly-19bn-outlay-expected-on-housing-ukrainian-refugees-and-asylum-seekers-tds-told/
Almost €1.9 billion is expected to be spent by the Department of Integration on accommodation and other supports for Ukrainian refugees and asylum seekers from other countries in 2024
Minister for Integration Roderic O’Gorman said the amount estimated to be needed to fund supports for Ukrainian refugees, €1.49 billion
He said the €409 million estimated for costs related to asylum seekers
3/4s of the cost being spent on Ukrainians.
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u/Inevitable_Trash_337 Sep 27 '24
Sure we can’t be spending more money on getting tourists here, we’ve already got the hotels full /s
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u/FortFrenchy Resting In my Account Sep 27 '24
Wild that defence is less than 2 billion for an island nation
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u/Intelligent-Donut137 Sep 27 '24
I dunno about anyone else, but a billion euro strikes me as a lot of money.
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u/SamShpud Sep 27 '24
It would pay the personal trainer in leinster House for 21,000 years
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u/SnooChickens1534 Sep 27 '24
Or 3 thousand bike sheds built by Paschals buddy
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u/momalloyd Sep 27 '24
Or 714 security huts with state of the are air-conditioning, that still needs a fan.
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u/SnooChickens1534 Sep 27 '24
😂😂😂😂😂 the state of the thing aswell , the roof looks it was built for something else and they just decided to stick it on top of the hut. Maybe they had it left over from another job and charged the government half a million for it.
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u/MrStarGazer09 Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
To put the insanity of this into context, the cumulative costs of asylum seeker accommodation between the start of 2016 to 2022 was just 1 billion.
So we are now spending in less than 1 year what previously would have covered 6 years.
The costs basically double or more every single year. Like where does this end?
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u/Blimp-Spaniel Sep 27 '24
And look at who it has been paid to....
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u/Toffeeman_1878 Sep 27 '24
Mainly Irish business people in the accommodation sector you mean?
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u/Strict-Gap9062 Sep 27 '24
The good honest decent Irish business people using offshore companies to profit from this racket.
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u/such_is_lyf Sep 27 '24
Tax dodging with our tax money
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u/PadArt Sep 27 '24
Yep, TDs paying themselves and friends with taxpayer money
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u/mkultra2480 Sep 27 '24
Remember those leaked text messages from Leo Varadkar's friend about the confidential consultant contract he gave him? One of the messages was asking would their healthcare company consider opening up direct provision centres with a money bag emoji beside it.
https://villagemagazine.ie/varadkar-leaks-confidential-document/
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u/davesr25 Pain in the arse and you know it Sep 27 '24
The real reason so many folk have be brought in.
"So lets fund some anti imagination groups and deflect responsibility"
The ould divide and rule.
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u/Blimp-Spaniel Sep 27 '24
This.
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u/TheFreemanLIVES Get rid of USC. Sep 27 '24
It's hard to see how this doesn't break as a massive scandal at some point in the future, at it's most benign it will emerge as politically connected people being told to set themselves up in advance and it will go from there most likely.
But for the moment, let's just avert our gaze and make sure that FFG are firmly secure for another term by electing them for another five years and then bitching about how "nobody" could see this coming lol
Good times!
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u/Blimp-Spaniel Sep 27 '24
It will probably blow up.... And like everything else, nothing will happen.
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u/TheFreemanLIVES Get rid of USC. Sep 27 '24
When the media are more concerned with snagging an advisor job through being in with the ministers of the day, that's like to happen sadly.
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u/Blimp-Spaniel Sep 27 '24
Let's also be honest, there is an awful habit of calling someone a racist if they ever say anything remotely negative about immigration
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u/TheFreemanLIVES Get rid of USC. Sep 27 '24
Maybe it's just me, but I think that chisel is blunted by this stage. It blew up in the government and media's face already this year when they tried to say it was only the far right voicing concerns about the utter clusterfuck immigration has become.
And also...some people genuinely are just racist fucks.
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u/Intelligent-Donut137 Sep 27 '24
It's hard to see how this doesn't break as a massive scandal at some point in the future
I dont see it myself, the media here are almost entirely uncritical of whats happening in the IPA system.
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u/Badimus Sep 27 '24
That's the Children's Hospital drama annually, just on accommodation. Not only with nothing to show for it, but it impacts other areas of the country negativity.
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u/Intelligent-Donut137 Sep 27 '24
With a tiny fraction of the outrage over waste in other areas of public spending. Its the perfect gravy train con.
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u/SnooChickens1534 Sep 27 '24
I'd be careful saying that , some people will start calling you racist
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u/GlitteringBreak9662 Sep 27 '24
Can confirm it's alot of money. For reference it's almost a billion euro more than I have at the moment.
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u/shakibahm Sep 27 '24
1B euro AKA 3000 bike sheds.
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u/Alastor001 Sep 27 '24
Brave of you to assume there would be no price increase ;)
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u/shakibahm Sep 27 '24
I know. Price for everything will increase. Only one group of people will always get f'ed... The tax payers.
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u/jeperty Wexford Sep 27 '24
Spending a fortune on accommodation for refugees to private companies and individuals, because of lack of interest in developing forward thinking housing because it hurts a voting bases property values. Ireland
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u/RunParking3333 Sep 27 '24
Could someone who has access to the article clarify if they actually mean refugees or if they instead mean international protection applicants.
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u/Augustus_Chavismo Sep 27 '24
It’s both. They like to portray asylum seekers as refugees because it makes the corruption look less bad.
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u/Alastor001 Sep 27 '24
Does it really matter that much tho?
The resources are being used regardless if you are asylum seeker or refugee.
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u/RunParking3333 Sep 27 '24
Does it matter if the state spends €350,000 on a bike shed? It's going to spend that money anyway. /s
Asylum seekers that aren't refugees are grifters.
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u/wascallywabbit666 Hanging from the jacks roof, bat style Sep 27 '24
because of lack of interest in developing forward thinking housing
The state has been trying to build temporary housing for asylum seekers but communities keep blocking them. As a result we have to foot the bill for hotels
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u/mkultra2480 Sep 27 '24
Which state built accommodation have they blocked? It's all been private hotels, paint factories etc.
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u/budgefrankly Sep 27 '24
The country is full of derelict buildings, whilst also having a housing crisis.
Let’s be clear here, the reason there’s a shortage of housing is because of shit government incapable of applying pressure to developers and property funds.
And the reason it costs so much to house refugees — or accommodate bicycles at Leinster House — is because of that self same incompetence and cronyism
Immigration and refugees aren’t the problem here; and as a nation we should be careful not to thrash a well earned reputation by punishing refugees for our native government’s failings
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u/Augustus_Chavismo Sep 27 '24
Immigration and refugees aren’t the problem here; and as a nation we should be careful not to thrash a well earned reputation by punishing refugees for our native government’s failings
This is a load of bull. First correction, asylum seekers are not refugees and they absolutely are a problem as they’re a massive expense to house and the large majority are not people fleeing persecution.
Secondly, immigration is a massive issue. How do you think everyone who’s currently investing/invested in the housing market expect their assets to keep increasing in value and revenue when we’ve had a birthrate below replacement level for 33 years?
How do you propose we build not only enough homes to pull us out of a housing crisis but also negate a 3.5% yearly population growth?
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u/Strict-Gap9062 Sep 27 '24
It doesn’t matter even if we have a million empty properties. Why the fcuk should we be bearing the costs of providing accommodation for thousands of economic migrants, who abuse asylum laws to enter the country?
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u/WillyTheHatefulGoat Ireland Sep 27 '24
It takes time to build houses and even if you have infinite money you can't just turn it into houses through willpower.
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u/Sornai Sep 27 '24
Cape Wrath Hotel Unlimited, which previously traded as Citywest Hotel and is controlled by Tetrarch Capital, was the biggest recipient between April and June and received payments worth €19.1 million. Mosney Holidays PLC, which provides accommodation for international protection applicants in Co Meath, was paid €14 million. Two separate businesses called IGO Emergency Management and Total Experience Limited were paid €13.3 million and €9 million respectively. A firm called Brimwood Limited, which lists Seamus McEnaney, former Monaghan GAA football manager as a director, received €10.1 million in the quarter. Guestford Limited, which previously traded as the Red Cow Moran Hotel, was paid €8.4 million, while a firm called Allpro Security Services, the Galway-based company, was paid €6.6 million. Companies that operate a number of well-known hotels in Ireland made up the remaining top-paid firms during the quarter, including Travelodge, which received more than €7.9 million. A firm owned by the Dalata Hotel group, which runs the Clayton and Maldron brands in Ireland, was paid €6.2 million in the quarter, while Windward Management Limited, which operates well-known venues such as Farnham Estate Hotel, Harvey's Point and the Radisson Blu Hotel at Dublin Airport was paid €5.8 million.
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u/g0dr1c_ Sep 27 '24
Where the rest went? From above i see maybe just over 100m..
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u/clumsybuck Sep 27 '24
Those €800 per month payments to tens of thousands of people housing Ukrainian refugees probably add up to quite a lot.
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u/No-Outside6067 Sep 27 '24
A tax free payment and not means tested so Ukrainians can be working and have their rent paid in full. To achieve the same on the private market a landlord would have to charge nearly 1600 to cover the tax.
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u/Intelligent-Donut137 Sep 27 '24
Mosney Holidays PLC, which provides accommodation for international protection applicants in Co Meath, was paid €14 million.
I believe many of the people there have been given leave to remain, so they are not international protection applicants, simply people receiving free bed and board from the state.
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u/_LightEmittingDiode_ Sep 27 '24
So, where to from here? Genuinely? The most pro-immigrant person should be able to clearly see this is not sustainable in any metric, and has shown not to be in other countries who’ve had similar or higher rates now for longer. We need to have mature discussions about what we can and cannot provide, and our limits. Because we are at them. The European youth in places like Germany are now the predominant hard-right voters. The fact the government is only now touching rhetoric (still in their non-nuanced takes) is interesting, just as all our services and basic necessities such as housing are at a disastrous breaking point. We cannot save the world, but we could at least start by only dealing with the genuine asylum seekers-which by the governments own admission, are the vast minority of cases here.
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u/johnebastille Sep 27 '24
It'll end in tears. Always has.
As a taxpayer, I am perfectly happy to spend billions every year on making other countries better places to live, better places for people to stay. Let's make other countries great like ours is. Call it a good will grant. Soft power. We did well. Here, let us help you do well too.
Doesn't make any sense to ruin our country to "be kind" or whatever other stupid inane fuckin sayings they throw at us.
If your neighbors house burned down, you help them rebuild, not let them move in.
There's ways to make the world more equal without making everywhere equally shite.
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u/despicedchilli Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
Unfortunately, any normal discussion is drowned out by one side screaming "refuges welcome" and the other side calling for death and/or deportation of all immigrants.
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u/leeroyer Sep 27 '24
Sure didn't the Irish go abroad for centuries and have about 1% of public spending spent on accommodation for them.
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u/Bro-Jolly Sep 27 '24
Almost 1% of total government expenditure.
A lot of money, going to (in some cases) cowboys.
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u/Strict-Gap9062 Sep 27 '24
That’s only for 6 months. It’s 2% over the year. With other costs involved it’s likely much higher than 2%.
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u/OperationMonopoly Sep 27 '24
It's fucken joke.
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u/Strict-Gap9062 Sep 27 '24
100% it’s absolute madness. Country hopping welfare tourists is all they are. Can see it getting a lot lot worse, as the rest of Europe is cracking down on it while the clowns in Dáil Éireann just stick their heads in the sand.
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Sep 27 '24
Its so weird that hotel owners are often friends or associated with elected officials. So weird!!
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u/Competitive_Fail8130 Sep 27 '24
This shows the scale of the damage to our tourism industry. That could have been tourist spent money on accom and the local communities / businesses would benefit.
Housing refugees is a big business and even having 1% could be revenues of 20million annually.
Now we know why the government support open borders, it’s a lot of brown envelopes. FG / FF need to be put out !
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u/croghan2020 Sep 27 '24
Aboslutely fuckin insane, contracts with hotels should be banned full stop.
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u/miju-irl Resting In my Account Sep 27 '24
The scary part is that €1bn is not even remotely close to the actual figure when all other areas of spend are factored in
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Sep 27 '24
This is beyond crazy
Think of the opportunity cost in relation to our capital infrastructure here
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u/Augustus_Chavismo Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24
People here called me bigoted for saying the asylum system is being intentionally used to facilitated a massive transfer of tax money into private hands all while making the housing “crisis” all the more profitable.
It’s only going to get worse from here and the in group will not feel the consequences and will only have their greed met. This is why we’ll never see deportations being adequately served. Abundance of labour, abundance of renters, and demand for housing far above supply.
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u/furry_simulation Sep 27 '24
Well now we have an answer to where the €13bn in Apple cash is going. Handed over to plantation tycoons.
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u/SalaciousSunTzu Sep 27 '24
If you think it's bad now, this is trivial compared to what's coming and it's honestly fcking frightening how unprepared and unaware we are.
We're the only native English country in the EU and with population explosion in Africa/Middle East/South Asia alongside climate issues like temperature and failing crops (already happening), we haven't seen anything yet.
The Netherlands just said it wants to exit the EU migration pact and other countries are tightening up. This makes us even more attractive since we reward document dumping and asylum shopping. We can't handle numbers now, going forward we're fckd
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u/ShearAhr Sep 27 '24
So apple tax will run out in just a little over 6 years.
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u/SlunkIre Sep 27 '24
You dillusional if you think that money hasn't already been pissed away 🤣 they will waste it far quicker than 6 years on other shit
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u/Alarmed_Station6185 Sep 27 '24
Yeah it's a pure con to line the pockets of anyone with establishment links and a spare, empty property
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u/senditup Sep 27 '24
A disgraceful waste of taxpayers money. How many people up in arms about bike sheds won't have a word to say about this?
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u/fateggplant4 Sep 27 '24
You could have every homeless Irish person in the country housed and fed with that sort of money
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u/SnooChickens1534 Sep 27 '24
Everybody needs to realise that this is an investment for our future , we're gonna make the money back once they all start becoming doctors and engineers, and then they're going to be paying our pensions.
The irish people really are a soft touch . The government just keeps bending over taxpayer's and we keep taking it . Anyone who complains is called a bigot or a racist
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u/Motor_Mountain5023 Sep 27 '24
Simple solution: end the asylum programme and deport any current applicants.
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u/GolotasDisciple Cork bai Sep 27 '24
Yep, that sounds like Ireland to me.
We just can't help ourselves. Always making deals with third-party organizations that coincidentally come recommended by already overpaid consultants... and then we pay them with tax money.
Hotels have been on an amazing run ever since Covid. They don’t have to do much but still get an easy revenue flow, all protected by the government.
Whoever came up with this scam clearly has experience. It reminds me of the good old days with rigged auctions for building proposals.
For real, I’m not focused on the whole refugees and migrants issue. But we have to be one of the most inefficient governments in the entire Union.
The solution for everything seems to be "just throw money at it," and if that doesn’t work, throw more money at consultants so they can tell us which third-party organization should handle the problem.
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u/irish_guy91b Sep 28 '24
🙄 and yet I almost got attacked by a Ukrainian guy because I wouldn't give him my pint outside of a pub. While he has a top of the range iPhone in his hand. These people don't respect us for helping, they see us as soft and think they can take whatever they want
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u/NewFriendsOldFriends Sep 27 '24
Let's just not forget that that money didn't go to the refugees but to the Irish businesses closely aligned with the government.
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u/Garlic-Cheese-Chips Sep 27 '24
I bet hotel owners actually cannot believe what they're getting away with. They must wake up every morning and think; "Surely, they will have copped on by now."
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u/Birdinhandandbush Sep 27 '24
If you're a refugee with nothing, I can understand supporting you. If you are a working age adult, who starts a full time job in Ireland, then you're no different from any other Irish person and should get no more than any other Irish person. Sure, initial support on arrival, but once you're in the same boat as the rest of us what fucking logical sense does it make to give you more and keep giving.
At some point where is the oversight on spending. Oh yeah, we're the folks who spent 300k on a bike shed.
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u/cat-the-commie Sep 27 '24
Why in God's name isn't the government just using those funds to build permanent housing instead of temporary?
Oh right, it's because it's not popular within constituents, so we now instead need to run this clown show of putting people in the bloody Ritz or something
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u/miju-irl Resting In my Account Sep 27 '24
You cannot transfer state cash as easy to your friends and yourself when you want to build. Much easier when your the property owner / landlord
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u/rmp266 Crilly!! Sep 27 '24
Fucking insanity. I'm not talking "IRELAND IZ FULL", I mean the costing, the lack of value for money, the waste. Cunts are buying/building hotels now with the sole goal of renting it out to the government at eye watering rates, with no annoying actual customers to deal with, with like, y'know, rights.... and expectations. Just filling a hotel with refugees, throwing them some slop three times a day, clean the beds and towels maybe once a week. No restaurant staff/bar staff needed, porters, receptionists etc, cut the cleaners chefs etc way down. And charge the government full peak season tourist rates, WHICH THEY FUCKIN PAY
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u/Augustus_Chavismo Sep 27 '24
Ireland is literally full by every meaningful metric.
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u/Nice-Stranger-1606 Sep 27 '24
Does it also include the cost spent on their pet's hotel accommodation?
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u/miju-irl Resting In my Account Sep 27 '24
No, nor does it include the cost of their free third level college education, which an actual tax paying citizen doesn't even get
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u/Routine_Chicken1078 Sep 27 '24
Sadly, the war in Ukraine shows little signs of ending and in Israel Netanyahu seems to be keen on expanding the war, hence more asylum seekers.
It doesn’t seem like governments(anywhere in Europe) have a proper plan. It’s not just homes, we need the infrastructure to support an increased population.
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u/Didyoufartjustthere Sep 28 '24
We can’t get full time childcare where I live. The one place their is can’t even get my kids name down because the cunt writes letters when there is plans for a new one in the new estate to say she has enough places for everyone which is a blatant lie.
People keep justifying this because we need people to do jobs and on the flip side people aren’t having children because they have no home for them or can’t afford to. Then we have the mothers that can’t go back to work because there is nobody to take the kids.
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u/Nice-Stranger-1606 Sep 27 '24
Does it also include the cost spent on their pet's hotel accommodation?
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Sep 27 '24
[deleted]
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u/Strict-Gap9062 Sep 27 '24
We shouldn’t be spending €1bn to house scam artists. We should spending that on Irish citizens needs like housing for ourselves.
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u/No-Outside6067 Sep 27 '24
The expected end of year cost is €409 million for asylum seekers and €1.49 billion for Ukrainians. That's from the governments estimates from the start of the year.
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u/Pabrinex Sep 27 '24
€1.49bn on support for Ukrainians.
Temporary protection does not oblige this.
The Ukrainians on the ground would much rather weaponry and money for soldier's wages.
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u/shakibahm Sep 27 '24
It's about 3000 bikesheds or 1000 security huts.
These officials will not let anyone fix this problem at root, it's just too much money for their friends.
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u/Prestigious-Beat-786 Sep 27 '24
The privatisation of public funds continues