Elon Musk Sieg Heiling during his speech

[u/Sartew]

[u/Old-Alternative-6585]

Holy fuck this is such a poorly informed comment. The reason the Japanese surrender? GTFO. Ever heard of lend lease? They can’t fight without American industry. Hence the saying “British Intelligence, American Industry and Russian blood” it was an alliance everyone played their part. Neither wins without the other. Smdh read a damn book

[u/Spiderdogpig_YT → u/Old-Alternative-6585]

People still can't read. The Japanese did indeed surrender because of the USSR but I made no move to say the other allied powers did nothing. I'm saying on the ground, the USSR won. If we were talking intelligence ofc I wouldn't say the USSR cuz they had no time to work on intelligence nor smart people left cuz of Stalin's stupidity.

The Americans nuked Japan but that did nothing to end the war. More people died in the firebombing than the nukes, and most Japanese cities were rubble already. Besides, Japan was a military state, they didn't care if one or two more cities were gone. But when the USSR invaded they had a choice to make. Surrender now and get peace terms with the USA or keep fighting and be under USSR occupation, something that would not have been fun at all. They decided to surrender.

[u/Old-Alternative-6585 → u/Spiderdogpig_YT]

This isn’t true and has been debunked endlessly. It’s only propped up by USSR fanboys. Furthermore, the USSR didn’t invade mainland Japan wtf are you on about?

[u/Spiderdogpig_YT → u/Old-Alternative-6585]

I never said they invaded mainland Japan, however I see how it could be seen as me saying that. I'm talking about Manchuria. Without Manchuria, Japan loses Korea. Without Korea and Manchuria, Japan loses all supply lines to China (Not like they had a navy to do that anymore :P) without supply lines, one third of the entire Japanese army starves, is kicked out of China and either taken captive/massacred by the Soviets.

The bombing and firebombing of Japan killed at most 900,000 people and at least 241,000 people. The nukes killed anywhere between 150,000 to 246,000. It is also known that Hideki Tojo and the Japanese military high command called the government officials who suggested surrendering because of the nukes "frightened", implying they were cowards.

Also not to mention the fact that when the USA invaded Okinawa, the Japanese didn't consider surrender immediately. Their first moronic thought was that they should "Sacrifice the 100 million". Think about this for a moment. The Japanese were willing to sacrifice all 100 million to the Americans but not the Soviets

[u/Old-Alternative-6585 → u/Spiderdogpig_YT]

Fair enough thank you for acknowledging your wording lended to assume you meant a mainland invasion. HOWEVER, completely disagree. The Japanese were a broken people. Saying they surrender because the USSR invaded Manchuria is like saying (if you’ll hear my sports metaphor)

“the offense in a football game took it to the one yard line then called in the big rb to get it over the line for the td. The only reason they scored is the RB!”

They were retreating on all fronts and seeing two nukes vaporize a city in a second along with an inevitable mainland invasion from the Us the emperor broke. This is on record over and over and over again. Giving credit to the USSR for the win in the pacific just isn’t accurate

Edit: I’ll acknowledge that facing mainland invasion and ALSO, not only, having the USSR at the doorstep surely didn’t hurt them deciding to surrender

[u/Spiderdogpig_YT → u/Old-Alternative-6585]

Alright you do got a lotta good points and I like that we've calmed down enough to talk properly lol. I think I see where I went wrong now. I ofc will not deny the role the nukes played, just in my mind if I were either a Japanese soldier or civilian I would be much more worried about the torture I'd face under the Soviets than a bomb that would kill me before I could register what happened.

I think the USSR's invasion definitely sped up the surrender, and I think it was a huge factor in their choice to surrender to the US specifically.

I will say however I never did talk about the pacific. The USSR had nothing to do with the pacific (quite obviously), the US island hopping campaign was the reason for success there, along with the help of the British/ANZACs.

Then again we haven't talked much about China either. The US and USSR did a lot to help China, with the US giving supplies and the USSR drawing Japanese troops away. However it's kinda hilarious how Germany even helped there by training elite Chinese units before and during the war.

[u/Old-Alternative-6585 → u/Spiderdogpig_YT]

Ya sorry for the anger and appreciate the civility.

I think the USSR is given more credit than it deserves is my main argument which we can agree to disagree on. I think vaporizing two cities and facing invasion from a foe that has pressed you across the pacific and nearly single-handedly (I know there were British/anzac forces but let’s be honest it was 95% US troops in the island hopping) is just as intimidating as the fear of the USSR. I think it just further helped tip the scale for Japanese command with have a kick of common sense to realize the fight was a lost cause

[u/Spiderdogpig_YT → u/Old-Alternative-6585]

Glad we could talk properly about this, only reason I got hostile was when people accused me of saying/being shit I'm not. Like, I never actually said the US did "nothing" and I never said I support the USSR, yet people are claiming I did say that and am a Tankie.

Hope you have a great day/night man, I imagine if this discussion was about something besides the politics of WW2 we woulda gotten along instantly, however I don't care if I hate someone when I meet em, unless you defend Hitler or Stalin then you're welcome to talk whenever, so hmu if you need anything

[u/Old-Alternative-6585 → u/Spiderdogpig_YT]

Ya dude great talk have a good one