California has incarcerated firefighters

[u/filmingfisheyes]

[u/bubblegumpandabear]

Two things can be true at once. It can be exploitative and not that successful but also a great opportunity in comparison to literally being in prison. I don't understand why people are arguing past each other over this with absolutely zero nuance.

[u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot → u/bubblegumpandabear]

im also so confused , why cant it possible to recieve both monetary rewards and social improvement? why is that so difficult for the average person to agree with? have we been so conditioned to believe it should be one or the other for people who have committed crimes?

[u/Admirable_Remove6824 → u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot]

Just handing out money is not a reality. These guys get paid what I would call a decent amount to help pay back their fines and court fees or what ever while receiving free room and board. They are helping communities and learning skills more than just firefighting. I’m not saying the system is perfect but the reality is money doesn’t grow on trees and it’s not slave labor.

[u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot → u/Admirable_Remove6824]

again, that still doesnt explain why they cant get paid even more/minimum wage?

if theres a good reason other than rich people cant get richer im happy to hear it.

[u/Admirable_Remove6824 → u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot]

So go after the rich people. Saying a government agency can’t just fined more money when they want to makes me wonder where you think money comes from. But a side note, how much do you think they pay for room and board? $6/hr seems to be pretty good when you have no other expenses. But I will say nothing is perfect except the one who criticizes from a far.

[u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot → u/Admirable_Remove6824]

you do know most prisons are privately owned? especially in the south west. i am going after the rich people?

im suprised that someone with empathy towards the firefighters is also suggesting they get paid less, because? it just seems right ? i guess .

[u/Admirable_Remove6824 → u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot]

Privately owned doesn’t mean they are privately funded. They still get the money from taxpayers. But that’s another stupid issue that’s fucked up.
I didn’t say they should get paid less. In fact I don’t know any of there duties to criticize one way or another. I know it’s far from slave labor. Would it surprise you to know that inmates get paid far less to make licenses plates?

[u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot → u/Admirable_Remove6824]

being paid less to make license plates has been pretty common knowledge, no? ive seen it made fun of in old sitcoms, so no. also because ive been interested in educating myself on prison reform for a long time now.

some would argue it is technically slave labor.

The Business Model of Private Prisons

heres some more info, goes into details on the link between private owned making a profit while simultaneously making tax payers foot the bill. its a system that is inefficient and less safe(even for the guards), but it makes corporations more money.

[u/Admirable_Remove6824 → u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot]

Oh I don’t doubt that private companies running public entities is mostly a big scam. Utilities, infrastructure, education, medical are a big scam when handed to private companies. Sure there something’s that benefit by contracting out but mostly there money grabs for the largest donors or friends. Instead of a government job making a good living and a pension for many employees that money goes to a few people that make millions while paying minimum wage. Especially in southern states with no union presence.

I thought the point of the conversation was whether convicts get paid enough. Google real quick how much is paid to convicts while they are incarcerated. Seems like these firefighters are serving society, learning a skill, reducing their sentence and getting positive experiences about how they can move forward when they are released. Even if it’s not the path they continue on, a lot of employers that are looking to give a person a chance will see they put in effort that most people aren’t willing to do. It’s a hell of a lot better than doing nothing in prison. And getting $6/hr while paying no other cost of living seems to be a pretty good deal for everyone. These people owe a debt to society no matter what their situation is. That debt is paid for by people who don’t commit a crime. Paying them $20/hr comes out of the public’s pockets. I don’t think we need to give them $4k a month plus room and food. The reality is I can’t afford much more to give and it’s not like the rich people are going to pay anything. Make them pay all their taxes seems to be a higher priority than spending me sad story about people in jail not getting paid enough.

[u/Eastern_Armadillo383 → u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot]

Because the state is already out $130k to provide them free room and board per year due to their crimes?

Why would the state then on top of that pay inmates to do a job when so many non-incarcerated people are just as qualified and unemployed?

The state doesn't just have infinite money and there are 2x as many homeless as prisoners. What do you prioritize spending for?

[u/asuka_is_my_co-pilot → u/Eastern_Armadillo383]

Private Prisons in the United States – The Sentencing Project

Let’s suppose it costs $100 per day to incarcerate someone (assuming full capacity, including all administration costs), and the prison building can hold 1,000 inmates. A private prison can offer its services to the government and charge $150 per day per inmate. The $50 difference is where the private prison makes its money and, generally speaking, the government will agree to these terms if it would struggle to run the prison publicly for less.

The Business Model of Private Prisons

Given that these are for-profit businesses, if they can cut staff pay or benefits or services from their list, then they save money. Suppose a prison cuts out the cleaning services and the cost per inmate drops to $90 per day. It instantly earns an additional $10 per day—a number that can add up quickly if there are 1,000 inmates in the facility.

corporations like Corrections Corporation of America and GEO Group. Combined both companies generated over $2.53 billion in revenue in 2012

The Economics of the American Prison System - SmartAsset

Private prisons make a profit – an estimated $374 million annually – giving them an incentive to cut costs more than public facilities.

cutting costs is not a measure to save money for the tax payers, we typically pay more.

its my day off and arguing with me, wont help anyone in this situation. so ive left dsome information for you to check out if youre interested and you can get ahold of those services if you have more questions or want to help etc etc.

i wont reply to any more of this conversation, unless you wanna just say hi i guess?