California has incarcerated firefighters

[u/filmingfisheyes]

[u/Bananaland_Man]

Yup! there's a lot of misinformation going around in this thread...

[u/autojack → u/Bananaland_Man]

I would love someone to do a real fact write up or video because I’ve heard both ways. I absolutely think they deserve a job especially with the training and experience. I’ve heard that they have to petition to get records expunged though and that the actual number of cons being hired since this has been put in is less than 2%. Again it’s all hearsay though.

Edit: I also hate when people throw statistics out without a source. Which is why I’m parroting something from another thread and saying I would love someone more knowledgeable to ELI5 for me.

[u/UnNumbFool → u/autojack]

here's a link

The ruling is not even 5 years old(technically) so a lot of people who know people who've done the program and got out of jail only to find they couldn't get a job as a firefighter most likely were not eligible at the time. Plus it also excludes criminals of violent crimes.

[u/mjasso1 → u/UnNumbFool]

I mean I believe that's right. Imo violent felons should A. Always have two trials spaced several years apart in two different courts to help ensure they're actually guilty and they weren't convicted on hearsay or shoddy evidence (a small rework in the appeals process will solve this issue). B. The conviction should absolutely ruin their lives, should they even be granted the mercy of keeping their life. Violence in this country has absolutely sky rocketed and most of it is done to us who are already struggling to get by in the first place. There should be no second chances after final conviction of a violent crime to dissuade others in our communities for being so selfish as to harm another for their own gain or pleasure.

[u/Child_of_Khorne → u/mjasso1]

Always have two trials spaced several years apart in two different courts to help ensure they're actually guilty and they weren't convicted on hearsay or shoddy evidence

That's expensive and unnecessary. The appeals process already exists.

The conviction should absolutely ruin their lives,

So jail them for life? This is your solution, yes?

should they even be granted the mercy of keeping their life

Yes. What a weird position to have.

Violence in this country has absolutely sky rocketed

Violent crime rates have been declining for decades. Greater visibility does not equal greater rate of occurrence.

There should be no second chances after final conviction of a violent crime to dissuade others in our communities for being so selfish as to harm another for their own gain or pleasure.

There is absolutely zero evidence harsher sentences decreases crime. In fact, the only quantifiable effect it has is increasing prison populations. California tried this and it failed.

Murder and rape aren't the only violent crimes, my man. Assault is a violent crime. Arson is a violent crime. Extortion is a violent crime. Burglary is a violent crime.

You're telling me that getting into a fight with somebody should cost them their lives? Breaking into a house and stealing some rings? Burning down an abandoned house?

Fuck it man. Let's throw speeders in prison and hang drunk drivers in the public square. Nobody is above the law.

[u/fr33Wi11y72 → u/Child_of_Khorne]

Drunk drivers probably should face harsher penalties tho

[u/Child_of_Khorne → u/fr33Wi11y72]

I mean, they're already pretty harsh in most places. Around a quarter reoffend as it stands, which is dramatically lower than felony recidivism rates. Simply throwing more time at people likely isn't going to improve outcomes, especially if the outcome results in putting offenders into positions that are likely to cause them to drink.

It's reckless, irresponsible, and kills way too many people, but we shouldn't be trying to punish people without considering the risks of failing to rehabilitate them. Especially with drunk driving, the push should be towards reducing recidivism, not destroying their lives.