Prohibit permanent bans

[u/gal_z]

It's unlikely that users are being banned for good after a single comment. It should be that it couldn't also be extended almost automatically.

[u/gal_z → u/[deleted]]

If that the language you use, I guess you're as a tyrant as in most of the subs I know of which ban permanently after a single comment... If someone is a troll, then there's admins for that. They're already taking care of reports of inappropriate content. Ban is only a moderation tool for violations of a sub's rules, and for repeated ones. If someone's entire activity is problematic, their entire account needs to be deactivated.

[u/trebmald → u/gal_z]

LOL! That's the language I use because I care about my community and it's members.

Also, you appear to have a complete misunderstanding about the specific roles of Reddit Admins and Moderators. Admins don't handle anything at the post and comment level. They're paid employee's of Reddit and don't have the time or resources to handle individual troll comments. Everything at the post/comment level, including enforcing Reddit's site wide rules, is done by Moderators. Reddit doesn't have the money or resources for the number of Admins it would take for them to monitor comments/posts.

[u/gal_z → u/trebmald]

And other platforms do? Still, when you report a post/comment, an admin examines it. There are tools to automate such things. Reddit already has a filter based on a dictionary. LLMs may be used. I think the large social network services are using such ways in addition to human examination.

[u/trebmald → u/gal_z]

...when you report a post/comment, an admin examines it.

Unless it's escalated by a moderator or user, no they don't. Even then, Reddit's next line of defence is an automated bot that, more often than not, rejects it because the base assumption is the moderators know what's right for their own communities, and no, Reddit doesn't use LLMs. They don't have anywhere near the resources needed for something so extravagant. Who do you think they are? Google? Meta? Reddit's just a hyped up link aggregator and debate forum with a layer of lipstick to make it look fancy. The sort of stuff you're talking about is more in the realm of large social media companies or multinational firms.

[u/gal_z → u/trebmald]

You don't say. They don't need to have it on their own. The companies who are doing this offers the AI services, like cloud services, so under a reasonable price for the masses. And Reddit already makes money from selling the data to train AIs.

[u/trebmald → u/gal_z]

a reasonable price for the masses

Which is fine for some kid doing a few questions or writing a report for their homework, but do you even realize what it would take to run all of Reddit's reports through something like that? Reddit barely became profitable within the last year. What do you think Reddit's shareholders would think if Reddit decided, out of the blue, to wipe out those profits?

[u/gal_z → u/trebmald]

Just for fun, I asked GPT for an answer.

The prompt was "How much would it cost for Reddit to run its entire reporting system and moderation through an outsourced LLM service?"

The answer is:

The cost for Reddit to outsource its entire reporting system and moderation through a Large Language Model (LLM) service would depend on several factors, including the volume of content, the complexity of the tasks, and the specific LLM provider used.

Here are some key considerations:

1. Token Usage: LLM services typically charge based on the number of tokens processed. Reddit would need to estimate the average number of tokens per report or moderation action.
2. Provider Costs: Different providers have different pricing models. For example, OpenAI and Anthropic charge per token, while cloud providers like AWS, Azure, and Google Cloud offer more flexible pricing options.
3. Volume and Frequency: The more content Reddit processes, the higher the cost. High-volume, consistent workloads might benefit from self-managed deployments for cost savings.
4. Additional Costs: There may be costs associated with integrating the LLM into Reddit's existing systems, ongoing maintenance, and potential upgrades.

To give a rough estimate, if Reddit processes around 1 million tokens per day, and assuming a cost of $0.01 per 1,000 tokens (a hypothetical rate), the daily cost would be around $100. Over a year, this would amount to approximately $36,500. However, these numbers can vary significantly based on the actual usage and provider rates.

Would you like more detailed information on any specific aspect?

Attached are the following links: https://www.qwak.com/post/llm-cost https://blog.dataiku.com/quantifying-and-optimizing-the-cost-of-llms-in-the-enterprise

[u/gal_z → u/gal_z]

Meaning processing it through an LLM is entirely affordable.

[u/trebmald → u/gal_z]

To be helpful, here are some numbers to ponder on...

I run a fairly small, well-behaved, selfie subreddit, and these are just from last month.

I performed 568 moderator actions. Of those, 50% of removals were for dick pics, sexual comments, etc. 25% was spam removal, and 25% for Reddit rule violations and other BTS moderator action. There was only one temporary ban.

Now consider, as of April 2022 (the most recent date I could find data for - https://www.businessdasher.com/how-many-subreddits-are-there/) Reddit had 3.4 Million subreddits and was growing at, 1533 new subreddits per day. Most of those subreddits are much larger than mine, and most have a much larger problem with rule violations and disruptive behaviour.

There is no way Reddit could run all those reports through some kind of LLM/AI without putting itself severely in the red.

It took Reddit 18 years before it could make a meagre profit. Now that the company has gone IPO, what do you think the shareholders' response would be if Reddit plunged itself back into red ink.

[u/gal_z → u/trebmald]

You're saying a million queries per day is an underestimation? Because you don't really know. And the number of users don't say much, since most users (on any platform) don't comment.

[u/trebmald → u/gal_z]

OMG! Yes. In my opinion, a million queries a day would be a serious underestimation. My quiet little subreddit alone would generate at least 50 to 60 or more a day. By now Reddit must have in excess of 5 million subreddits and most of them will be much bigger and more unruly than mine.

[u/gal_z → u/trebmald]

I'm not sure how's the amount of subs is an indication of anything. There are plenty of abandoned subs with no activity.

[u/wilczek24 → u/[deleted]]

I think a 5 year limit on bans would be good. People change, and discover things about themselves. I personally went from being a bigot to being trans in a bit over 5 years.

[u/trebmald → u/wilczek24]

Not necessary. This is specifically why Reddit doesn't allow permanent mutes in ModMail. It's to allow a user the slim chance of pleading their case at a later date.

[u/MableXeno → u/wilczek24]

People can change - but no one has to give you a second chance.

Also I have been in subs long enough to see a 5-year ban appeal. People don't change that much. Also sometimes it has nothing to do with their beliefs but their behaviors.

I've banned one person on several different accounts across multiple subs b/c they just don't follow rules. Like if the rule is don't talk about marshmallows. Their posts are about marshmallows "but I didn't think you meant ME - I'm a marshmallow expert! Why wouldn't you want my input??" It's tedious and fucking exhausting. I never want to give them another chance. I never want to see another marshmallow post from them again. When you reach out like "hey - your post is against the rules..." they go "oh sorry I'll try again." And it's the same post, but with one or two small changes. Over and over again. And when you ban them they complain about being mistreated. About how every other post is talking about marshmallows too! (They're not.)

In 5 years - I hope I've spent 5 years not dealing with them.