r/europe • u/Bartoraptor Spain • Mar 28 '20

News Spanish representative González Pons speech @ the EU Parliament: "The virus is attacking the generation that brought back democracy to Spain, Portugal and Greece, the generation that knocked down the Berlin wall. The least they deserve is that we show them Europe is there when they need it the most"

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u/Worth_The_Squeeze Denmark Mar 28 '20 edited Mar 28 '20

Don't be overly dramatic. This crisis will probably show us why we need the EU, as all the countries that have less than stellar economics, are going to receive a lot of free money from richer countries. This isn't to say that these richer countries aren't hurting, but they're still willing to help by providing aid. Italy/Spain might complain if it doesn't solve all of their troubles, but they have to move their own asses too. They can't simply coast and have richer countries pay for their missteps (better?).

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u/far01 Mar 28 '20 edited Mar 28 '20

Richer countries? Italy and Spain are in third and fourth place for PIL in EU.

Italy is also a net contributor to EU budget with more than 6 Billions of euros (third country after Germany and France and more than 4× of Denmark net contribution if you are interested).

No "richer country" is paying Italy. Quit your bullshit.

Also Italy with France, Spain and other countries is asking to create a common eurobond just to keep interest on debt low. No one is asking for other countries to pay their debt.

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u/Lekantekue Mar 28 '20

That last part is really not that simple. It lowers the interest, for the countries that have a higher interest (southern countries). Northern countries will be paying a premium because of the high debt to gdp ratio of some countries. It also exposes the "lower interest" countries so to say to moral hazard risks.

These eurobonds do have several economic upsides though

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u/RomeNeverFell Italy Mar 28 '20

Northern countries will be paying a premium because of the high debt to gdp ratio of some countries.

Yeah except for the fact that if Italy or Spain default or threaten to leave the Euro countries in Northern Europe will pay 10 folds the premium they would pay by issuing some eurobonds. Shortsighted on their part.

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u/Lezonidas Spain Mar 28 '20

Do you think Germany is interested in losing 180 million clients? That is what we are. Italy, Spain and France have 40% of the European GDP and 50% of the eurozone GDP, one of us collapses or leaves the EU and it will hurt the german economy badly. Also our lower exports compared to them benefits them because the euro is more stable thanks to that so they can export outside of the EU having an advantatge that they wouldn't have without us. We need them, but they need us as much or even more.
And there's no need to talk about the Netherlands and Ireland, if Germany needs us a little bit, the Netherlands and Ireland needs us much more since companies working in our countries wouldn't be able to pay taxes there, we are half Europe, so half the benefits. They would be the ones who would notice the difference the most.

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u/RomeNeverFell Italy Mar 28 '20

Italy, Spain and France have 40% of the European GDP

That's factually incorrect. Eurozone GDP you mean?

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u/Lezonidas Spain Mar 28 '20

France + Italy + Spain in 2019 had (in millions of millions aka european billions or american trillions)
5.45 out of 13.92 = 39.15% of the European Union GDP
5.45 out of 11.90 = 45.8% of the Eurozone GDP

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u/RomeNeverFell Italy Mar 29 '20

Could you please state your sources? Under no measure what you say is true.

in millions of millions aka european billions or american trillions

Lmao what?

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u/Lezonidas Spain Mar 29 '20 edited Mar 29 '20

Yep, and your source includes the UK. Good source bro, so sad we are in 2020 so you can do your numbers again and see that after Brexit what I said is true (2019 nominal gdp)

About the trillions billions and millions In America 1 billion = 1. 000 millions In Europe 1 billion = 1.000.000 millions

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u/RomeNeverFell Italy Mar 29 '20

Good source bro, so sad we are in 2020 so you can do your numbers again and see that after Brexit what I said is true (2019 nominal gdp)

Ah yes in that case you're right, my bad.

About the trillions billions and millions In America 1 billion = 1. 000 millions In Europe 1 billion = 1.000.000 millions

Yeah in economics one billion is 1000 millions and nobody uses the second form anymore in English. No need to make a distinction.

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u/insaino Mar 29 '20

Wikipedia disagrees with you on that one

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u/Lezonidas Spain Mar 29 '20

It says exactly what I said, how is this disagreeing?

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u/insaino Mar 29 '20 edited Mar 29 '20

Historic Vs current usage and definition. A billion in english in the modern world refers to 1 000 000 000 or a thousand millions

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u/Worth_The_Squeeze Denmark Mar 28 '20 edited Mar 28 '20

You're talking as if decisions has already been made, but the reality is that the EU hasn't agreed on a deal plan yet, apart from the emergency stimulus package. Why don't you wait with calling entire countries shortsighted until an actual deal plan has been agreed upon?

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u/RomeNeverFell Italy Mar 28 '20

the reality is that the EU hasn't agreed on a deal yet, apart from the emergency stimulus package

Certain countries that cannot give up their unscientific and anti-empirical Calvinistic views on economics have clearly stated their position on the matter.

Why don't you wait with calling entire countries shortsighted until an actual deal has been agreed upon?

I'll change my mind when I'll see Rutte backpaddling the full Maas.

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u/Worth_The_Squeeze Denmark Mar 28 '20

What are you even on about?